Worst Cities For Jobs

[Exavior]

It's so stupid and retarded with that "KEEP BUYING FOREIGN!" sticker. Honda and Toyota makes a good number of their cars here in the US using American products to assemble their cars and do you see them having financial problems at all? Fuck no. Instead we're shelling out billions of dollars to the Big 3 that still haven't changed their concept or told the UAW to take a fucking hike.

When I graduate from school, my car I'm going to be buying is most likely going to be Toyota. My experience with them has been nothing but good. Fuck the Big 3 and they still haven't been able to make a car that is efficient and affordable. Sure they're coming out with cars like that but it's a little bit too late for me to change my mind.

yup, Subaru, Honda and Toyota have plants here in Indiana. I also believe that a company here makes some engines for a Nissan plant in another state.

"Foreign" cars are just as American made as "american" cars. It isn't like Ford and them make every single part in the USA.

 

[Nemesis999]

The UAW is an abusive monopoly. Plain and simple.

They hold a monopoly in their market and threaten to crush anyone that opposes them. Once they're dissolved the US auto companies will have a chance to compete. Until then they're fucked.

 

[PureBooYah]

I was born and raised in Michigan and still live there. I haven't had too many problems finding IT jobs in the areas I've looked (Ann Arbor and then Midland/Bay City - moved because of the fiancée, but I miss A2 ). Last time I looked was March/April 08. My brother, on the other hand, who just graduated from college in Dec 08 with a business major is still looking.

Ah, poor Michigan. Would the last one to leave, please turn out the lights?

will do.

 

[Ockie]

I 3rd that. I really like what you said about the UAW. They're pricks and I hate them, but I also hate unions in general. What I really can't wait for is the day the automakers don't have unions. All they did was add to the problem and pushed for undeserved wages. Pay $100,000 to stand and bolt together a car? It's a job that has to be done right, but really...100k? get lost. Better yet, just get the fuck out.

To add...I've been saying almost exactly this for a quite a while. Americans are stuck on this 'Buy American' bullshit, it's BULLSHIT. Hardly anything is 'made in America', and just because it may be assembled in America doesn't mean you're buying true American. There isn't a true American product anymore.

But basically everything you said is exactly why I'll never buy an 'American' car again. In addition, the cars cost more than others, perform less, break down more, and overall, in my opinion, just can't really compete anymore with the others. I mean, those reasons, plus the fact that the Big 3 let happen what has happened to them. That's right, they LET this happen to them, and it was only a matter of time before shit hit the fan, and because of the economic situation, that time has come. As Yoda would put it, "Hitting fan, shit has".

I drive a Pontiac but I'll never buy another again. I don't mean I won't buy a new one because they're closing, I mean a Pontiac in general, from anyone, because I don't want to. Why would I buy a car from a brand that is closing? Why would I buy a car from a brand, owned by an automaker with multiple failing brands? Why would I buy a car from an automaker who, in my opinion, has done a lot of failing in recent years? I wouldn't. I won't. Depending on what my income is in the future, I'm going to buy a VW, Honda, BMW, Mercedes, or Porsche.

<Rant off>

One of the big fukups for Michigan was denying Toyota, Nissan, and Honda world head quarters and factories here.

The Big 3 did everything in their power to keep everyone else out including plants, suppliers, headquarters, etc. In the process, they managed to kill themselves and now everyone is without a job.

 

[Ockie]

To all the people contemplating Texas, I say do it! Times are still hard for some people here, but in general, our city (Austin) and Texas in general has not been doing nearly as bad as other states and cities. Texas is great for outdoor activities, sunny weather a lot, it does get hot in the summer, but thats just a great exscuse to go to lake Travis, or float the river in San Marcos, go swimming, or have a BBQ. Austin, San Marcos, and San Antonio are great, Houston and Dallas as well, but those cities are obviously a lot bigger. Houston traffic sucks! Austins is not the best either, actually I think ratio wise its one of the worst.


Also, one great thing to remember is that Austin has a Fry's Electronics

A ton of my friends moved to Texas already and are super happy with the job market. I once threw my resume out there to see how may bites and was surprised at the response, including a company willing to pay relocation. While that's great and all, I am actually more or less self employed and to move business and sell my home, would be too hard.

If it wasn't for the crappy house market and if it wasn't for the fact that I'd lose a fortune, I would be there with you guys already... stealing your heat Damn I love that weather.

 

[Ren H]

Sorry to drag this back to the automakers but coming from an auto town I have a pretty good bit of exposure to the issue, and have seen the industry decline from the days of the auto-pact. I just can't let this rampant union bashing go unanswered without adding my own two-cents (which is about all I've got in my pocket). I'm not a union guy, btw.

My current G.M. minivan is my third. It has all the problems of the last two plus a couple of new ones, and one I read about ages ago, with half the mileage.

Typical G.M. policy:
.
Stage 1. Design new car, fit it out with obsolete parts.
Stage 2. Reskin the body to make it look "new and improved".
Stage 3. Once obsolete parts run out, invest in new engineering and parts.
Stage 4. Cancel production and start again at Stage 1.

(Now this is not to say that I consider Fords as higher quality products, quite the opposite actually.)
And BTW, some of G.M.'s products have very high fuel efficiency, but an investment in a vehicle does not depend on gas mileage alone, as an example my latest Astro/Safari has improved seats, but I swear some marketing wank had the seat moved closer to the door so that is very comfortable to use the door's arm rests. Problem is that it is extremely uncomfortable to keep both hands on the wheel, and is giving me a sciatic pain in the ass.

I whole heartedly agree with the idea that a country needs high value industry in order to be viable economically ("Buy American"). A country needs to produce goods and well paid jobs. The U.S. used to fit that model, but over the last few decades it's been all about cutting costs. Now if "the big three" ship production overseas it will be a continuation of this policy.
Where is the recovery going to come from, people flipping burgers? Or the "pie in the sky" wealth creation of speculative stocks?

IMHO they've knocked the legs out from under the county's economy and will continue to cripple the economic future of the nation by exporting high value jobs to third world production and pay standards. (environmental as well)

At least they gave Toyota et al massive tax breaks (in some cases virtual elimination) to set up shop here so that when "the big three" ship production overseas I will still be able to buy a quality product Made in America, even if a lot of that wealth creation will end up in the trans national's hands, and contribute little to the nations infrastructure due to afforementioned tax breaks.

Don't blame "overpaid union workers".
Blame overpaid execs who care for little more than lining their own pockets and inflating stock prices. I hope it's common knowledge by now that the average executive pay is now 350 times that of the salaried/hourly worker as apposed to the 35 times it used to be.

FWIW, the pay I see in my industry has been stagnant for twenty years. I find it extremely hard to get dollar for dollar the pay a guy with my experience used to get in the eighties. I'm not a vehement union guy but they do have their place, and their benefits, notice Toyota etal workers get the same pay as the American's, but without the need for confrontational union/management relationship. They recognize the value of their employees; and btw, the pay disparity comes from pension costs, ->damned overpaid bastards don't deserve a pension,<- (divide and conquer victim's knee jerk reaction, "I don't have one, why should they" childish fools), but 'nuff said.

To paraphrase a recent add, "We're getting screwed brother."


I don't know how anybody can't see that it isn't the fault of the unions that these guys are losing money. Look at the price of the Toyotas, whereas G.M. only makes (so I read) $1,000 per vehicle because they can't charge enough for piss poor quality, which is a result of management policy, not employee pay.

 

[crackbone]

I happen to love Michigan.

It's an absolutely beautiful state sans Detroit. Seriously, there's no where on earth like MI in the summer. Traverse area is just gorgeous and some of the best golf I've ever seen in the world. The lake country is gorgeous. The people there are good, hardworking people too.

It's too bad that MI is suffering as badly as it is, as I would consider moving there in a heartbeat if jobs were to be had.

 

[Nemesis999]

Don't blame "overpaid union workers".
Blame overpaid execs who care for little more than lining their own pockets and inflating stock prices. I hope it's common knowledge by now that the average executive pay is now 350 times that of the salaried/hourly worker as apposed to the 35 times it used to be.

Wow, reached pretty far up your ass to pull out that crock of shit, didn't you?

Maybe, just maybe, the CEO's total compensation nears 350x the average worker, but that of course assumes you ingnore things like pensions and other benefits that aren't included in a worker's "salary" but are included in executive compensation. Of course, once you include all the execs' compensation you're talking closer to 100x, and that still requires you to ignore employee benefits.

I'm sure the fact that 5 people get paid a total of $40M is what really kills the bank accounts, not the extra BILLIONS a year it costs to overpay their underperforming workers.

Typical union bullshit. Unions kill buisness, always have, always will.

 

[Kaitian]

Don't blame "overpaid union workers".

Yes. The UAW has nothing to do with the problem! Afterall, they prevented the Big 3 from declaring bankruptcy which they should have done in the first place. Since Chapter 11 declaration allows them to forgo any contractual obligations to workers or unions in order to reform the organization for the better.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/18/business/economy/18sorkin.html?_r=1

They're being paid 70 dollars an hour and they also employ 8,000 people who don't even go to work but are protected by the UAW. If that happened in a non-unionized setting, they would have been fired or their positions terminated immediately to cut down on cost.

But instead creditors of the Big 3 are now being forced to accept 28 cents on the dollar by the Obama administration which is a violation of the 5th Amendment and give control of Chrysler to the UAW. Seriously, a union taking control of a company? Ya that will turn out well.

 

[Ren H]

The big three's unionized rate of pay is on par with the competition.
Legacy pension costs are what account for the disparity in wages, how many times does it have to be said.

I didn't pull those figures out of my ass, I would have come across those figures on one of the news programs I watch, Nightly Business Report, CPAC, or similar. (I can hear the mud slinging already, name dropping google searching socialist.... spare me please)

I did mention that I'm no great supporter of unions. They are, unfortuneately, a part of the confrontational culture of management employee relations in companies that aren't run well, like the big three.

It's not the overcompensation of execs or workers that are killing these companies, it's their loss of market share and lack of commitment to "constant improvement" (the Japanese philosophy). The workers neither designed nor chose the parts for these cars.

A google search is about all the time I'm going to spend on this, here you go:

http://74.125.113.132/search?q=cach...+compensation+350+35&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca

http://www.cpbn.org/report-finds-top-execs-earn-350-times-salary-average-american-worker

Ontario autoworkers are the reason Ontario facilities are consistent winners of both the J.D Power and Associates Initial Quality Study and the Harbour Report plant productivity survey.

 

[Ren H]

I forgot to mention it's the bond holders that aren't taking the hit along with everyone else, and the primary reason Chrysler is being taken to bankruptcy court, to force them to take a loss.

I don't like the "how it's turning out/going to turn out" either. But I'm not about to simply blame the unions for this, every car company is taking a bath...
Ohh, btw, isn't Ford unionized?

 

[wrxdrunkie]

It is the unions though.... they are being payed more than FMV for what they do....

Its not ONLY the unions, but they do not HELP the situation any

Foreign companies have just been innovating more and offering better products COMBINED with the unions GM has to deal with, and GM having way to many eggs in waay to many baskets.

And Chrysler? GOD im tired of hearing about them, let them fail, they have been in trouble for YEARS, different companies buying them, nothing changing, basicially, chrysler, from a financial perspective, has sucked for a very very long time compared to BMW, Toyota, Honda, Ford etc.

Its unfortunate that people will lose jobs, but some companies fail and some dont, I also think an example needs to be set with what a Union can do to a company, GIVES US MORE WAGES GIVE US MORE WAGES, "what were bankrupt now and I lost my retirement?!?! how did that happen"

 

[Sprkslfly]

And you people from up north that are thinking of moving south for a job, listen up. Be prepared to suffer tremendously from the heat/humidity if you move along the southern coastal plains. You really don't know what heat is until you work in south LA or along the TX coast in the July-September time frame.

Damnit mudd!!!!

You let the cat outta the bag! lol

I wasn't gonna mention that factor.
I'm still recovering from those 3 weeks in '04 where DFW was at 113+.
Yes. THREE WEEKS of triple digit teens 'n twenties!

Gotta love those hot texas summers (to paraphrase The Cult)!!

 

[Pr0d1gy]

It is the unions though.... they are being payed more than FMV for what they do....

Its not ONLY the unions, but they do not HELP the situation any

Foreign companies have just been innovating more and offering better products COMBINED with the unions GM has to deal with, and GM having way to many eggs in waay to many baskets.

And Chrysler? GOD im tired of hearing about them, let them fail, they have been in trouble for YEARS, different companies buying them, nothing changing, basicially, chrysler, from a financial perspective, has sucked for a very very long time compared to BMW, Toyota, Honda, Ford etc.

Its unfortunate that people will lose jobs, but some companies fail and some dont, I also think an example needs to be set with what a Union can do to a company, GIVES US MORE WAGES GIVE US MORE WAGES, "what were bankrupt now and I lost my retirement?!?! how did that happen"

Sadly, it is the Big 3's own reluctance to risk losing some profit long enough to make the move they need to, which would be something akin to a pro sports league lock-out, that has put them into this position of utter helplessness with the UAW. You cannot blame the UAW though since they have only done what so many of us wish our jobs would do, make sure the employees come first in the manner they see fit. Greed is the culprit here, and it is the greed of these huge companies that will cause the largest problems in this financial model, should all other aspects remain consistent.

 

[Pepster64]

Gee I live in Livonia and I'm not surprised it made No. 1: Detroit-Livonia-Dearborn, Mich for I lost my job 2 months ago for I had the good fortune of work 19 years for an automotive paint manufacturer. Looks like I'll be going out of state to find work.


On a brighter side - GO WINGS!!!

 

[Budwise]

Austin Texas ftw. I wouldnt live anywhere else!

 

[Nanan]

Interesting.

Michigan dominated the Worst cities for jobs (no surprise there) and Texas dominated Best cities for jobs.


Never been to Texas, but is it really all that?

Thinking about leaving O-hi-O in the next couple years and have considered Texas on a couple occasions.

I like Houston for the most part and the economy is much more stable here then other big cities like Chicago.

 

[Ockie]

Wow, reached pretty far up your ass to pull out that crock of shit, didn't you?

Maybe, just maybe, the CEO's total compensation nears 350x the average worker, but that of course assumes you ingnore things like pensions and other benefits that aren't included in a worker's "salary" but are included in executive compensation. Of course, once you include all the execs' compensation you're talking closer to 100x, and that still requires you to ignore employee benefits.

I'm sure the fact that 5 people get paid a total of $40M is what really kills the bank accounts, not the extra BILLIONS a year it costs to overpay their underperforming workers.

Typical union bullshit. Unions kill buisness, always have, always will.

I usually don't agree with you, but this one you are spot on.

350x perhaps the average worker, not the union worker.

The average industrial labor worker makes $25.36/hr, Ford Union Worker makes $70.51, GM Union $73.26, Chrysler Union $75.86... and for foreign companies, Toyota $47.60, Nissan $41.97, Honda $42.95... plus factor in the 64% remaining benefits packages and jobs banks.

Yes the executives are overpaid, but so are the unions. Keep in mind, these executives are leaving and finding same and better pay even in this economy... yet the union workers cant even find minimum wage jobs... so if people want to argue about fair pay... this is it.

 

[wrxdrunkie]

Sadly, it is the Big 3's own reluctance to risk losing some profit long enough to make the move they need to, which would be something akin to a pro sports league lock-out, that has put them into this position of utter helplessness with the UAW. You cannot blame the UAW though since they have only done what so many of us wish our jobs would do, make sure the employees come first in the manner they see fit. Greed is the culprit here, and it is the greed of these huge companies that will cause the largest problems in this financial model, should all other aspects remain consistent.

Oh we can most def. blame UAW, when you dont give a **** how well your company is doing, and only push for increased wages, there is a problem. They get payed significantly more than toyota employees, they are cocky, thinking they are worth a lot more then they are, being on the line is not rocket science. It was just a few years ago that they went on strike when GM was not doing well!!

Its like the company has to do whats best for employees, but the employees feel no need to do whats best for the company. Sorry though, their is no way I will say that you cant blame the Unions, just because "everybody" would try and get increased wages. Nope. They were selfish and cocky.

 

[-Axiom-]

Unions don't care about the long term health of the company, they care about union dues...
The cost of labor is the biggest difference between foreign and domestic companies.
It is the cost of labor and environmental laws that makes companies move out of the United States.