WoW: Cataclysm release date announced

[arr4ws]

Nice! now i know when to sell my first collector edition!

 

[FranklyShankly]

WoW is not as much of a grind anymore. With the dungeon finder and cross server 5 mans you can get pretty decent gear on a casual basis.

Sadly I think this is reversing in Cata. Word on the street is 5 man heroics are HARD again, perhaps moreso than they were in BC. Seems that pug raids will be almost nonexistant, heroics using the dungeon finder might be harder, etc.

Not sure how I feel about it honestly, I liked the challenge of the game from back then, but I don't have the time or desire to go back to 3 hour 5 man runs.

 

[krameriffic]

I'll play it for like 2 months after it comes out, same as BC and WotLK, then I'll cancel my subscription again.

Personally, I don't understand how people get so addicted to it. It just gets boring and repetitive in the extreme at some point like any other game.

 

[WasntMe]

Sadly I think this is reversing in Cata. Word on the street is 5 man heroics are HARD again, perhaps moreso than they were in BC. Seems that pug raids will be almost nonexistant, heroics using the dungeon finder might be harder, etc.

Not sure how I feel about it honestly, I liked the challenge of the game from back then, but I don't have the time or desire to go back to 3 hour 5 man runs.

5-man heroics were hard when WOTLK and TBC came out. They will be easy (or easier) later on, just like they are now.

I'll play it for like 2 months after it comes out, same as BC and WotLK, then I'll cancel my subscription again.

Personally, I don't understand how people get so addicted to it. It just gets boring and repetitive in the extreme at some point like any other game.

So, you're not a gamer... understood.

 

[leezard]

Sadly I think this is reversing in Cata. Word on the street is 5 man heroics are HARD again, perhaps moreso than they were in BC. Seems that pug raids will be almost nonexistant, heroics using the dungeon finder might be harder, etc.

Not sure how I feel about it honestly, I liked the challenge of the game from back then, but I don't have the time or desire to go back to 3 hour 5 man runs.

heroics were hard because ppl didnt have the gear, as ppl got better gear heroics got easier

 

[Ocellaris]

Sadly I think this is reversing in Cata. Word on the street is 5 man heroics are HARD again, perhaps moreso than they were in BC. Seems that pug raids will be almost nonexistant, heroics using the dungeon finder might be harder, etc.

Not sure how I feel about it honestly, I liked the challenge of the game from back then, but I don't have the time or desire to go back to 3 hour 5 man runs.

I don't believe this for a minute. With LK, Blizzard claimed the exact same thing (hard Heroic and Raids, plus people would have to use CC) then within days people had cleared everything. Heroics were hard for a couple of days, then with a couple pieces of loot and people figuring things out, it was just a farming fest. Plus with things Deadly Boss Mods, people were able to breeze through the content with little practice.

Ulduar was supposed to be a "real" raid that could not be pugged, for serious groups only, blah blah blah. This was Blizzard answer to the serious players (according to them). Then Blizzard nerfed the shit out of Ulduar with 2 quick patch less than 3 weeks after it launched.

ICC was supposed to be difficult. For real this time. Except they made the first bosses way to easy so pugs were clearing the first 4 bosses with out a problem and turning the place into a loot pinata. Plus with the scaling buff slowly increases to *30%* they basically insured that anyone could clear the place as long as they could keep the drool off their keyboard.

Blizzard target casual gamers, this means making things easy and having the rewards be plentiful. The playerbase's skill has gone way down without any increase in subscribers (subscriber counts around the BC launch were similar to where they are today). If they dropped actual hard content on the powder puff players now it would just piss them off. I don't expect to see anything like Heroic Shattered Halls (from BC) ever again. Blizzard's plan is to make everything differing level so easy and then let people toggle the Hard Mode mechanic for real fights (or forcing people to at least play the game correctly).

 

[ZodaEX]

I agree ocellaris, I don't play WOW anymore cause it's way too easy. They need to make servers that are extra difficult, or wow 2.4 or something. I need challenge in my RPGs/(mmos) or they grow old extremely fast. Hell I don't even need to use both my hands to breeze threw that game.

 

[soul555top]

I cant stand when people play the "game is too easy" card. Like any other game, there is an easy mode and a hard mode. Every game is easy and mindless if you put it on easy mode. If you want a challenge and are driven to be the best in WoW, play in one of the guilds that killed heroic LK with no buff.

Now I will also say that the game has changed immensely, and mostly catering to the casual crowd, for better or worse. But the top guilds who are defeating difficult encounters on the bleeding edge has not changed much. The only difference is now after a couple months, a lot more people can see the same stuff. This increasing buff over time is way better than the boss nerf at the end of BC. Anyways, just my .02

 

[FranklyShankly]

heroics were hard because ppl didnt have the gear, as ppl got better gear heroics got easier

WOTLK heroics were never as hard as BC heroics, especially when BC heroics started and "ppl didn't have gear" in those, they were way harder, longer, and more tedious than any in LK.

I have played since vanilla, I don't mind the challenge. But everyone is gonna whine when all the people who started in WOTLK get a dose of really needing to use CC, and not pulling 25 mobs at once. I think there will be a whole lot of QQ from both sides of the argument. Still though, it's gonna be a lot tougher getting a group as DPS if you don't have a good CC.

 

[Ocellaris]

I cant stand when people play the "game is too easy" card. Like any other game, there is an easy mode and a hard mode. Every game is easy and mindless if you put it on easy mode. If you want a challenge and are driven to be the best in WoW, play in one of the guilds that killed heroic LK with no buff.

Now I will also say that the game has changed immensely, and mostly catering to the casual crowd, for better or worse. But the top guilds who are defeating difficult encounters on the bleeding edge has not changed much. The only difference is now after a couple months, a lot more people can see the same stuff. This increasing buff over time is way better than the boss nerf at the end of BC. Anyways, just my .02

the problem with the ez/hard mode toggle is that it creates a situation where the ez mode accomplishment is meanigless, then the hard mode is just the same shit over again. myself and a lot of others appreciate working at hard bosses to get to the next one. I hate running through shit, then being like 'ok, now we cleared that, lets do it again next week on hard'. I want additional content that is harder, something to work on and experience. difficult raids were the carrot-on-a-stick for people.
Posted via [H] Mobile Device

 

[Dreaz]

Yeah BC heroics were harder, true. I remember even doing a few of the harder ones early on with 2 healers.

 

[makmatsu]

I've been playing WoW on and off for 5 years... yea...

anyway, I just resubbed to check my stuff out since I've been absent for almost 2 years
quite a change since I left, I guess they added more 25m raids

currently running the game on E5200 oc'ed to 3.0ghz with a 4670 card (not oc'ed) on xp x86, I have to tone down quite a bit of stuff, but it runs like a charm
I'll be swapping out the 4670 and use a 4870 as a stop gap soon

I used to run wotlk with a Q6600 at 3.0 and a 9600GT on vista x64, but I no longer have that system (and it ran super smooth back then)

anyone here in the beta/ptr have any experience with regards to computer hardware and guess what the req would be?
I'm guessing the game will still favor fast CPU clocks over top of the line GPU

 

[soul555top]

the problem with the ez/hard mode toggle is that it creates a situation where the ez mode accomplishment is meanigless, then the hard mode is just the same shit over again. myself and a lot of others appreciate working at hard bosses to get to the next one. I hate running through shit, then being like 'ok, now we cleared that, lets do it again next week on hard'. I want additional content that is harder, something to work on and experience. difficult raids were the carrot-on-a-stick for people.
Posted via [H] Mobile Device

I agree with your point 100% and I also constantly complained about the system. I hated learning a fight, then relearning a fight, considering I played all of WotLK with casuals. Combine that with guild turnover, and well, it was just boring and demoralizing. However, we are talking about two different things. All my op was trying to say is that the challenge is there, if you choose to accept it. Whether you think the system of how it is implemented is good or not, that is a different topic. I am going to make an ass of myself, and assume, that a lot of the people who say WoW is too easy, are not the same people in the top 10 guilds who are killing heroic modes days after being released. Not pointing any one out specifically, just generalizing here, but I think its a decent assumption.

 

[Intel_Hydralisk]

I agree ocellaris, I don't play WOW anymore cause it's way too easy. They need to make servers that are extra difficult, or wow 2.4 or something. I need challenge in my RPGs/(mmos) or they grow old extremely fast. Hell I don't even need to use both my hands to breeze threw that game.

Challenge in mmos is sort of... an oxymoron? The secret to getting a large player base is to make it as easy as possible.

 

[leezard]

WOTLK heroics were never as hard as BC heroics, especially when BC heroics started and "ppl didn't have gear" in those, they were way harder, longer, and more tedious than any in LK.

I have played since vanilla, I don't mind the challenge. But everyone is gonna whine when all the people who started in WOTLK get a dose of really needing to use CC, and not pulling 25 mobs at once. I think there will be a whole lot of QQ from both sides of the argument. Still though, it's gonna be a lot tougher getting a group as DPS if you don't have a good CC.

I've also been playing since release...longer actually if you wanna count the closed beta and friends and family beta. Yes TBC heroics were harder than LK, I didnt say they werent. That doesnt mean they didnt get easier as people geared up.

I look forward to them being a challenge, of course they will most likely get nerfed into easy mode after a few weeks

 

[krameriffic]

So, you're not a gamer... understood.

I'll play a very, very select few games for an extended period of time, but WoW is not one of them. I still play Quake 3. I still play CS. But WoW is a game where you hit an artificial content cap (you've seen and done everything and have all the best gear) and at that point it gets boring.

Diablo 2 held my attention for far longer than WoW did. There's so much more variety to the gear progression, and I suspect that the same will hold for Diablo 3.

 

[Ocellaris]

Challenge in mmos is sort of... an oxymoron? The secret to getting a large player base is to make it as easy as possible.

WoW's player base rapidly ballooned to over 10 million during Burning Crusade when the game was still difficult. 3.0 + The Lich King was their attempt to make the game appeal to even more people, however the recently released subscriber numbers were noted at being around 11 million which is not much of an increase. There is a lot more churn in the player base instead of most of the subscribers being regulars. In the end this makes Activision more money since they keep moving more retail boxes, so I suppose they consider it a win.

And seriously with that many people paying $15 a month to play, any company should consider that a win

 

[CryingGod]

the problem with the ez/hard mode toggle is that it creates a situation where the ez mode accomplishment is meanigless, then the hard mode is just the same shit over again. myself and a lot of others appreciate working at hard bosses to get to the next one. I hate running through shit, then being like 'ok, now we cleared that, lets do it again next week on hard'. I want additional content that is harder, something to work on and experience. difficult raids were the carrot-on-a-stick for people.
Posted via [H] Mobile Device

This is my feeling too.

 

[TheWeazmeister]

Honestly, the game lost a lot of the luster for me when they changed the way the PvP was setup. We used to have tremendous world PvP but that became a joke with BC and an even bigger joke with LK. Now the only world pvp that happens is for the achievements. Anyhow, I am sure i'll play cata and get bored once I have full tier w/e and let my sub expire. Having 8 80s I am not so sure I want to lvl 1-85 any more, so the "appeal" of leveling two new races.

 

[Disposed]

WOTLK heroics were never as hard as BC heroics, especially when BC heroics started and "ppl didn't have gear" in those, they were way harder, longer, and more tedious than any in LK.

I have played since vanilla, I don't mind the challenge. But everyone is gonna whine when all the people who started in WOTLK get a dose of really needing to use CC, and not pulling 25 mobs at once. I think there will be a whole lot of QQ from both sides of the argument. Still though, it's gonna be a lot tougher getting a group as DPS if you don't have a good CC.

The main reason you needed CC in BC is because unless you where a pally you had no chance at holding a full pull or where very poorly geared. Unless they remove all the tanks AOE abilities they got with Wrath and delete DKs we will not be using CC in any heroics for very long thats for sure.

 

[Disposed]

WoW's player base rapidly ballooned to over 10 million during Burning Crusade when the game was still difficult. 3.0 + The Lich King was their attempt to make the game appeal to even more people, however the recently released subscriber numbers were noted at being around 11 million which is not much of an increase. There is a lot more churn in the player base instead of most of the subscribers being regulars. In the end this makes Activision more money since they keep moving more retail boxes, so I suppose they consider it a win.

And seriously with that many people paying $15 a month to play, any company should consider that a win

An increase still shows they moved in the right direction. I honestly think its less about wotlk being easy and more of a plateau in the market.

Last i heard wow is at about 11.5 and they hit 10 million towards the end of BC. A 15% increase in subs is nothing to scoff at.

 

[Trimlock]

bring back BWL

 

[zoobaby]

bring back BWL

Suppression room.../shudder

As most have said BC heroics were much harder, for much longer than WotLK heroics were. Much of this was due to how rapidly you could gear in WotLK compared to BC.

In BC, heroics for a fresh 70 were painful. Using two healers and CC'ing whatever you could, to get through most of the heroics.

In WotLK, you didn't need two healers for early heroics. It was pretty much tank and spank, no CC needed.

Also, I don't believe the badge system was in place for early BC. Think that came in a later patch to aid in gearing up.

Overall, both xpacks have been fun. Very different in difficulty but you can't please everyone.

/raided hardcore in early BC (TK attuned before they dropped attunements)
//total casual for most of WotLK - I've never cleared Naxx...in fact, I may have done more of Nax pre-BC days...

 

[evanisthecoastie]

Suppression room.../shudder

As most have said BC heroics were much harder, for much longer than WotLK heroics were. Much of this was due to how rapidly you could gear in WotLK compared to BC.

In BC, heroics for a fresh 70 were painful. Using two healers and CC'ing whatever you could, to get through most of the heroics.

In WotLK, you didn't need two healers for early heroics. It was pretty much tank and spank, no CC needed.

Also, I don't believe the badge system was in place for early BC. Think that came in a later patch to aid in gearing up.

Overall, both xpacks have been fun. Very different in difficulty but you can't please everyone.

/raided hardcore in early BC (TK attuned before they dropped attunements)
//total casual for most of WotLK - I've never cleared Naxx...in fact, I may have done more of Nax pre-BC days...

shattered halls.

shudder.

 

[Cali3350]

The main reason you needed CC in BC is because unless you where a pally you had no chance at holding a full pull or where very poorly geared. Unless they remove all the tanks AOE abilities they got with Wrath and delete DKs we will not be using CC in any heroics for very long thats for sure.

That is exactly what happened. Consecrate now does absolute pittance for threat, and things like thunderclap have been nerfed to the point where it will keep mobs off a healer if you use it on every cooldown, nothing more.

CC looks to be back, which I like.

 

[zoobaby]

That is exactly what happened. Consecrate now does absolute pittance for threat, and things like thunderclap have been nerfed to the point where it will keep mobs off a healer if you use it on every cooldown, nothing more.

CC looks to be back, which I like.

As someone who mostly tanked in Vanilla, some tanking in BC, and a lot of tanking in WotLK, I'm not sure if threat nerfing is a good thing.

We'll see lots of sheep pulling...hunters pulling...premature sapping...and hybrid classes spec'd for DPS being told no thanks because their CC is limited at best. Like in BC, when doing H-SH, people always wanted mages and hybrids got passed over.

On the other hand, if the tank is good enough and geared enough to live without CC, you can tank vanilla style and just tab around to gain threat on multiple mobs. Think LBRS before ZG/AQ20 loots...you used to have to CC many pulls because the tank couldn't handle the incoming damage. Once geared enough, you didn't need worry about CC for damage mitigation on the tank, you just worried that the tank could hold aggro on 4 and 5 packs. (Sadly most couldn't...)

 

[leezard]

As someone who mostly tanked in Vanilla, some tanking in BC, and a lot of tanking in WotLK, I'm not sure if threat nerfing is a good thing.

We'll see lots of sheep pulling...hunters pulling...premature sapping...and hybrid classes spec'd for DPS being told no thanks because their CC is limited at best. Like in BC, when doing H-SH, people always wanted mages and hybrids got passed over.

On the other hand, if the tank is good enough and geared enough to live without CC, you can tank vanilla style and just tab around to gain threat on multiple mobs. Think LBRS before ZG/AQ20 loots...you used to have to CC many pulls because the tank couldn't handle the incoming damage. Once geared enough, you didn't need worry about CC for damage mitigation on the tank, you just worried that the tank could hold aggro on 4 and 5 packs. (Sadly most couldn't...)

Thats when tanking was fun, tanking in LK is easy mode which is why I switched to DPS on my warrior.

 

[Disposed]

That is exactly what happened. Consecrate now does absolute pittance for threat, and things like thunderclap have been nerfed to the point where it will keep mobs off a healer if you use it on every cooldown, nothing more.

CC looks to be back, which I like.

I dont, unless they plan on giving every class good CC and then if they do that its just pointless again.

The whole reason i started tanking on my druid in BC was because i got sick of being passed over for classes with better CC.

Its like all that shit ghostcrawler went on about during wotlk about bringing the person not the class got reversed. Its not a good change by any means.

 

[Ocellaris]

I dont, unless they plan on giving every class good CC and then if they do that its just pointless again.

The whole reason i started tanking on my druid in BC was because i got sick of being passed over for classes with better CC.

Its like all that shit ghostcrawler went on about during wotlk about bringing the person not the class got reversed. Its not a good change by any means.

every class does not need good cc, good aoe, and similar dps. trying to make things to similar was part of the reason blizzard ended up in this mess to begine with.
Posted via [H] Mobile Device

 

[Disposed]

every class does not need good cc, good aoe, and similar dps. trying to make things to similar was part of the reason blizzard ended up in this mess to begine with.
Posted via [H] Mobile Device

They do though if they plan on keeping their word on bringing the player not the class.

 

[zoobaby]

Thats when tanking was fun, tanking in LK is easy mode which is why I switched to DPS on my warrior.

Fully agree...tanking in Vanilla was pretty damn fun on my warrior. Sadly he sits at lvl 70 in Kara+ gear because I focused on other toons. Hmm..may transfer him...

 

[Vagrant_Zero]

I cant stand when people play the "game is too easy" card. Like any other game, there is an easy mode and a hard mode. Every game is easy and mindless if you put it on easy mode. If you want a challenge and are driven to be the best in WoW, play in one of the guilds that killed heroic LK with no buff.

Now I will also say that the game has changed immensely, and mostly catering to the casual crowd, for better or worse. But the top guilds who are defeating difficult encounters on the bleeding edge has not changed much. The only difference is now after a couple months, a lot more people can see the same stuff. This increasing buff over time is way better than the boss nerf at the end of BC. Anyways, just my .02

WoW on "Hard Mode" is every other game on "Easy Mode".

So forgive us if we play that card like it's 1999.

 

[bpizzle1]

The thing that makes WoW hard is managing to get 25 people to not screw up on any of the mechanics. It might be easy to avoid the mechanics of a boss fight, but having 25 people all do it for the duration of the fight while doing whatever else is required of them is not. Out of 11.5 million players, only about 523 guilds worth of them have killed hard mode Lich King (a number that has basically tripled in the past few weeks). That basically means that about 13k people have defeated the encounter out of 11.5 million (that comes to 0.001%). People always like to sit and talk about WoW being too easy, even on the "hard" setting, but the numbers tell be that 99.999% of them haven't "beaten the game."

 

[WarningFromSpace]

yay

 

[Cali3350]

They do though if they plan on keeping their word on bringing the player not the class.

Which is what started the whole mess in the first place. Can Blizzard keep this up while still allowing for different mechanics? maybe maybe not. If not, then screw bring the player, go back to bring the class, and make the game fun again.

 

[Disposed]

Which is what started the whole mess in the first place. Can Blizzard keep this up while still allowing for different mechanics? maybe maybe not. If not, then screw bring the player, go back to bring the class, and make the game fun again.

They will stick with bring the player because bring the class pisses more people off than the alternative.

 

[Ocellaris]

The thing that makes WoW hard is managing to get 25 people to not screw up on any of the mechanics. It might be easy to avoid the mechanics of a boss fight, but having 25 people all do it for the duration of the fight while doing whatever else is required of them is not. Out of 11.5 million players, only about 523 guilds worth of them have killed hard mode Lich King (a number that has basically tripled in the past few weeks). That basically means that about 13k people have defeated the encounter out of 11.5 million (that comes to 0.001%). People always like to sit and talk about WoW being too easy, even on the "hard" setting, but the numbers tell be that 99.999% of them haven't "beaten the game."

at that point its just for e-peen though. its not like killing heroic arthas lets you see or experience anything different, its mostly a similar fight to the normal mode. I hate sinking my time and effort when the fight is already 'been there, done that'. i've played wow near the top level through burning crusade, doing the same fight on 10/25 man normal and hard modes doesn't hold much motivation for me.
Posted via [H] Mobile Device

 

[Cali3350]

They will stick with bring the player because bring the class pisses more people off than the alternative.

Not really, even ghostcrwaler will say so. The idea behind bring the player was that you could play with your friends, not that any class could perfectly fit a generic role. They went overboard in wrath and made "dps" just dps with no regard for anything else. bringing back specific class utility was one of their major design goals in cata. When looking at an instance like blacking descent or heroic dead mines it's clear they are back to the cc or bust days, and all classes have specific ways in which they excel and in which they don't. Can you do dead mines without a Mage to poly? Sure, but your attack order will need to change in order to deal with sap or hexes time constraints. No warlock to curse of tounges the Mage? Then you better have your freeze trap on the warrior because the Mage will need constant interrupts. The content is dynamic based upon the cc your class provides and not the straight up asinine single strategy that wrath brought to evey instance.

"Bring the player" is now "bring one of these types of players and work around their strengths". This is different from vanillas " we need a Mage or we lose" and different from wraths "lol CC".

 

[Reus]

Oh hooray! A return to tedious three hour heroics that require just the right classes and specs to succeed, yet give minimal reward for the time invested, does not sound like "fun". You can sugarcoat it all you want, but you know how people are in this game, min/max up the ass. Nobody is going to work around anyone's strengths, they will simply insist on bringing only those with optimal CC, etc. I fail to see why everything needs to be so goddamn exclusive with no margin for error to be fun.

I've played WoW since opening morning, very seriously up until the release of the Sunwell raid. I actually found the bullshit reduction in WotLK to be quite refreshing. Oh well, if this is going to be BC 2.0 then I guess I will save $30 a month.

 

[Trimlock]

you pay 30 a month?

theres a ton of stuff about cata that mixes vanilla with BC, vanilla was so unique with not everything having to mix well or make complete sense, then you have the direct challenge of stuff actually being hard like in BC.