WoW Epic Rolling

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shadowbreaker513

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Feb 15, 2005
Messages
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I think the whole thing with blacklisting people who roll on epic items who's stats don't fit the normal playstyle of their class is a bunch of crap personally.

Let's think for a second using the example of Runeblade of Baron Rivendale
At first glance you thing "Oh, epic sword, warrior weapon." However, take a closer look and it is much more logically suited to hunters for several reasons.

Reasons others don't need it -

1) The warriors you have with you are most likely to be tanks using a 1h + shield. 2h weapons are used for soloing, but by lvl 60 not much soloing is done anyway.

2) While fury/arms specced warriors would like to use the weapon, most of the time groups will take a mage or hunter for pure dps over a fury/arms warrior


Reasons hunters do -

1) Contrary to popular belief, hunters are not completely useless in melee. Sometimes it is absolutly cruical for them to melee in the event that the main tank dies and they need to offtank. They may be the only other mail wearer in the party.

2) Hunters tend to need raw dps in weapons to make up for agility speccing in everything else, this weapon provides it.

3) The added speed and regeneration would make kiting far easier and more effective. Don't give the argument for Aspect of the Cheetah, as that is compleletly useless when kiting.


Now this isn't to say that warriors/pallys shouldn't roll on it. Not in the least. I merely mean to show that just because some people don't think melee weapons are important for hunters, doesn't mean that they instantly lose to right to roll for a good melee weapon when it comes up.
 
right but what's a hunters bread and butter? bows/guns.

i'd say a paladin/shaman/warrior would definitely be better suited for this. the black listing thing is sort of an honor system, if it's a rare unique drop and you need it, you get it, if they need it, they get it. that's all it's for.
 
Also, just to prove how bad hunters need pure dps; from their epic quest they get a bow/staff weapon (it transforms at will) with the staff having 73.3dps.
 
I dont care if everybody rolles on the item even if i really needed or wanted it. its a fare system. if if the person that got it cant use the item they can still sell it in AU for some good money maybe. u could even ask that person that got it if u could kindly have it because u could use it. some people are nice enough to give it to u. i know i would.
 
chuckm1020 said:
I dont care if everybody rolles on the item even if i really needed or wanted it. its a fare system. if if the person that got it cant use the item they can still sell it in AU for some good money maybe. u could even ask that person that got it if u could kindly have it because u could use it. some people are nice enough to give it to u. i know i would.
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Binds on Pick-Up :/
 
Reasons your wrong.

Hunters are a useless broken class.

From, Atari Level 60 Dwarf Warrior of Pantheon
 
But if you REALLY wanna know why your wrong.....

First, learn to play your class. Hunters are for pulling, and for doing ranged damage. Are you good at either, frankly, no. (Blizzard's fault I admit, not yours) But you can't redefine your roll in a group. You are not an off tank by any means. A druid, shaman, paladin are all much better suited to off tank. The times this situation would ever come up requiring you to "tank" are slim and none. But, you are still capable of doing fairly decent ranged damage which is what you should be focusing on. If an epic bow dropped with a hunter in the party, should I roll on it? I mean, I am trained in bows. Sometimes I need a break from doing my job as a tank and just shooting people for kicks. Warriors need those 2h weapons, not in instances, but in PVP when "tanking" is an ineffective, poor strategy.

Even, irregradless of that, that is clearly a WARRIOR/PALLY weapon. If you ever rolled on that on my server you would be blacklisted instantly. You'd never find a caapable party again. I know a few good hunters whos company and enjoy and whos work I appriciate. Too many, I am afraid, are ignorent to MMORPG mechanics, greedy, or 12 years old. Please rethink your incorrect belief that epic swords are better suited for hunters than warriors.
 
HRslammR said:
sup with every class getting an epic quest but not warriors? =/
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Warriors get the quest for Quel'serrar 52 dps 1h sword forge in onyxias dead body :DD get the starting book from DM.
 
If there's a warrior in that group that doesn't have the weapon and wants it, it really should go to him. Hunters blow in melee and they really do belong in the back with a gun or bow. If I was in a group and a Warrior wanted it, but a hunter rolled for it and got it...I'd be ever soo pissed.

That sword is going to be that Warriors primary weapon, and he should have dibs over it from some hunter who wants to use it as a seconday.
 
A druid, shaman, paladin are all much better suited to off tank
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Druid - sometimes needed as added spellcasters/rogues
Shaman - not on alliance
Pally - true, but often times they will be busy buffing people and they can't hold aggro very well.

Please rethink your incorrect belief that epic swords are better suited for hunters than warriors.
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Did I ever say that? No. What I meant was that hunters are just as capable of using that sword well as are warriors/pallys. While yes hunters are primarily ranged, most groups would kill for a versitile hunter that can melee sucessfully if needed. I'm usually told to do either in groups as my melee dps (50.4) is nearly as high as my ranged (51.5)

(33 NE hunter on Shadowmoon)
 
Out of curiosity, why are you even talking about this? You're lvl 33. You've got other things to worry about :p
 
]|[ Mar']['in ]|[ said:
Out of curiosity, why are you even talking about this? You're lvl 33. You've got other things to worry about :p
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Talking about it because me and my friends (all 50+) are annoyed by the exact same thing.
 
shadowbreaker513 said:
Talking about it because me and my friends (all 50+) are annoyed by the exact same thing.
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Good enough :)

Though I have to agree with everyone else in the thread. Just because you CAN use something, and though it might be very useful to you, doesn't mean you should roll on it when there are others who are BETTER suited.
 
shadowbreaker513 said:
Did I ever say that? No. What I meant was that hunters are just as capable of using that sword well as are warriors/pallys.
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Just don't ever get pissed if someone who's not a hunter rolls for your epic gun.
 
Killdozer said:
Just don't ever get pissed if someone who's not a hunter rolls for your epic gun.
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I won't, I'm not a gun user. And the second I hit 60, I'm going for my epic bow.
 
Killdozer said:
Yeah, I know, but I'm trying to give him an example of how it could feel to have the tables turned.
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I fixt it in reply to his reply to your original statement :p Because it seems like anything we come up with he'll come up with some sort of excuse/reason why it doesn't matter and he doesn't care.




<3
 
]|[ Mar']['in ]|[ said:
I fixt it in reply to his reply to your original statement :p Because it seems like anything we come up with he'll come up with some sort of excuse/reason why it doesn't matter and he doesn't care.




<3
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It's because I honestly wouldn't. Would I be ticked off that I didn't win the roll? Yes. Would I get ticked off at the player and tell anybody to never group with him again? No. they have just as much right to it as I do. The only situations where I would say that, would be if a spellcaster decided to roll on an epic dagger or mace, or if somebody rolled on a blue/epic just to disenchant it if other people wanted it.
 
Every time a hunter tries to meele god kills a kitten... It's as simple as that. You get a weapon with the most stamina/int/agi on it and you leave it there for the sole purpose of having stats. In any event, you would want the fastest weapons you could find to slow down casters spells...
 
That's really not a warrior weapon. First of all, it's a sword and any warrior using a 2 hander should be using an axe for axe mastery. Additionally, it's pretty quick so it's not as good for OP and MS.

Hunters don't need it either. The amount of meleeing that hunters do and their usefulness in it is greatly overexaggerated.

For a paladin it's OK. Granted they'd get better SoC procs with a slower weapon, but that shouldn't really hold someone back from using it. Also, paladins (unlike warriors and hunters) really have no movement impairing skills. The extra movement speed could be useful.

It's really just not that good of a weapon. It's good, but that's it - not great.

1) Contrary to popular belief, hunters are not completely useless in melee. Sometimes it is absolutly cruical for them to melee in the event that the main tank dies and they need to offtank. They may be the only other mail wearer in the party.
In the event that the main tank dies there's a great chance that a hunter will never gain aggro or if he does it won't last long (one heal). A rogue using evasion would be a much better tank (and is more likely to end up tanking). If the mobs stay alive longer than evasion lasts your group is probably doing something wrong and is going to wipe no matter what.

2) Hunters tend to need raw dps in weapons to make up for agility speccing in everything else, this weapon provides it.
The amount of melee damage a hunter is going to do is going to be minimal because for one they have low strength and not that great of melee skills. You can spam raptor strike all you want to, your dps in melee is still going to suck. It's a much better idea to use a weapon with stats and deal slightly less melee damage.

3) The added speed and regeneration would make kiting far easier and more effective. Don't give the argument for Aspect of the Cheetah, as that is compleletly useless when kiting.
It's completely useless? Hah. It's not useless, you just don't how to use it.
 
It's completely useless? Hah. It's not useless, you just don't how to use it.
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Let me rephrase that. It is completely useless in PvP, against mobs with a ranged attack, or if your pet can't hold full aggro.
 
shadowbreaker513 said:
Let me rephrase that. It is completely useless in PvP, against mobs with a ranged attack, or if your pet can't hold full aggro.
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You definitely don't know how to use it. It's not useless in PvP. After scatter shot it's great. If you wingclip someone you can use it to get a bit farther away if they don't have ranged attacks. You shouldn't need it against mobs that are full time ranged attackers and yes it's not a good idea to use it against melee mobs that have a ranged attack, but those aren't THAT common. What do you want it to do? Have it so you can kite any mob in the game without taking any damage? Aspect of the cheetah is great and has significant situational usefulness, you just have to figure out when to use it.
 
Hunters aren't that 'useless' of a class. Hunters and Rogues are the bread and butter of the Ragnaros encounter. Without them, Rag will never be taken down.

I've got to agree with the sword thing, sorry, most likely a Paladin or Warrior will get the 2H sword over you. Just like a Rogue will most likely get a dagger over any other melee class. Just like a Hunter will most likely get a bow/gun over any other melee (ranged) class. Just like a Priest will most likely get a Mana regen item over a melee, just like...

And so on, there's a set place for most items. Sure, yes, you have equal opportunity to USE the item, but getting it should probably be tipped to one class over another. You should also make it clear when you get a group how you feel the drops should be handled. If the people in group are ok with you rolling for a 2H weapon of any type, then go for it.

Level 60 Rogue, Khadgar Server. <Scion>
 
I have done groups where they get mad if you roll and where they don't care. If the group leader doesn't specify which way they want then they are free game.

The group leader is the one to say what happens in the group and if you don't like it you can always find another group.

Remember: It is just a game, and a fun one at that.

What REALLY should happen is Blizzard should change the roll system to a ?? item and if you win it then you get something that suits you. This would make it a lot more fun and solve arguments.
 
I have a level 55 hunter of Eonar, and honestly everyone hates us .
/cry

Most people are just morons, who say such uninformed things such as "hunters are useless for endgame pvp raids, and instances."

Which is clearly untrue as your NEED a hunter with traq shot in your group to have any hope at all in MC. And if anyone takes a look at the current state of PVP. No melee fighters every rush in to battle. They wait behind and charge at the stragglers. Its the ranged classes like hunters and mages that blast the other side from far away.

In addition to the rolling on epic items, I love how everyone claims to have an honor system for rolling, IE dont roll on other classes Epics, but then somehow honor goes all to hell in PVP as they same people who cry about fair rolling are the ones who gank lowbies.
 
It's up to the group. Let's be clear on this: You want people to have a good impression of you so they will bring you along next time. If the group doesn't think you should roll on it, then I think you shouldn't roll on it.

You shouldn't be melee'ing anyway, your main job is dps at range. I'll admit, that sword would be handy in pvp however, but let's face it: In pvp 1v1, you are in deep shit anyway. That sword isn't going to be that handy for you. And in group pvp, your job is, again, to stand back and plink em.
 
XOR != OR said:
It's up to the group. Let's be clear on this: You want people to have a good impression of you so they will bring you along next time. If the group doesn't think you should roll on it, then I think you shouldn't roll on it.

You shouldn't be melee'ing anyway, your main job is dps at range. I'll admit, that sword would be handy in pvp however, but let's face it: In pvp 1v1, you are in deep shit anyway. That sword isn't going to be that handy for you. And in group pvp, your job is, again, to stand back and plink em.
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I don't know about you but whenever I am grouping I am the one pulling and the one to gain agro first. The majority of tanks have no idea to hold agro, which inevitably leads to me being in melee combat until I can lose agro and get to range again.
 
Agree with the post above. A hunter trying to melee 1v1 against another melee is going to die. In group pvp if you're trying to melee....you need to get your head examined. A hunter would be better off with 2 1h weapons that add +% to crit or hit or other stats to increase his range weapon skills.
 
On a side note, did anyone read the post below it, on thottbot.

I Love it,

The post says " You have a higher chance of getting hit by lightning five times in the face than getting that sword man."

Its funny cause its true.

:D
 
As a Hunter I would never roll on that if there was someone in group that could use it more than me. It's not about who can use it, it's about who can use it best. Just like I wouldn't expect a Warrior to role on a Hurricane or Dwarven Hand Cannon.

Now maybe you don't like or care about the people you're grouping with but I only group with my guild and we always loot need before greed.

Also I'd like to say that while it's sometimes necessary to melee, you should really only be concerned with the stats on your weapon because you'll benefit a lot more. I use a 2-h sword with +25 Agility that benefits me a lot more than most rare or epic weapons because agility adds to your melee attack power as well as ranged (as well as your dodge and critical hit percentages, and armor). Most of the time when someone gets close I just scattershot, or wing clip them and hopefully the talent procs and they can't move. By the way, scattershot is the best ability we have...hands down :).

Another thing is you should never limit yourself to just bows...you could be gimping yourself. I use whatever the best ranged weapon I can find is. Right now I'm using a crossbow and doing a ton of damage. My multi-shot criticals are as high as 1200 (each person).
 
bonkrowave said:
I don't know about you but whenever I am grouping I am the one pulling and the one to gain agro first. The majority of tanks have no idea to hold agro, which inevitably leads to me being in melee combat until I can lose agro and get to range again.
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Well, the groups I am in, it's usually the mage and rogue pulling ( sap/sheep ). If I am in a group that knows how to work with hunters, I'll lay a freeze trap, so we reduce the mobs we have to worry about down by 3.

However, I never pull. Other classes do it better than I do, except in the rare instances where the rogue and mage are useless.

And just because a tank is clueless on how to hold agro doesn't mean you need to compensate for it. You just need to focus on your job, and let them do theirs.

Speaking of which, I'm curious as to what everyone thinks their job is as a hunter. I think I'm dps and caster-saver. I focus on the MA's target, but when a caster pulls too much aggro, I will pull the mob off them and tank them until they can be CC again ( or until the main target is down ). As the only class alliance side that wears mail at the high end, I see that as my job.
 
XOR != OR said:
Speaking of which, I'm curious as to what everyone thinks their job is as a hunter. I think I'm dps and caster-saver. I focus on the MA's target, but when a caster pulls too much aggro, I will pull the mob off them and tank them until they can be CC again ( or until the main target is down ). As the only class alliance side that wears mail at the high end, I see that as my job.
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Ya I agree with you on the hunters job. No one else looks after the priest or mage, so its our job. Our pet can act as an off tank as well, or be sacrificed in MC to pull.

I also like to agro juggle as well tho. If there is a hard hitting mob I will sometimes aimed shot, multishot, etc to get agro then feign death or use the melee agro droping skill. This causes the mob to focus on me, charge at me, which allows for warriors or other tanks to bandage or heal real quick, then when he gets to me I just drop the agro and he goes back to the tanks.
 
Ugh, way off topic. Just roll on everything. Its treasure.

If you feel like being kind, or owe the guy something, then dont roll. BOPs I usually think/ask twice before automatically rolling.

I am pretty cynical because I have seen guys demand possesion of some item because it fits their class, but then I inspect them and they clearly have a much better item equiped. "Im a rogue, thats a dagger, I have sole rights to sell it." that makes no sense.
 
blacklisted? is this like telling everyone you know not to group with someone because they rolled on something out of greed? or do you mean something else by blacklist in wow?
 
Reading the forums over at WoW, I stumbled at someone's signature and it might be a solution to this problem, it says: Blue/Epic Weapons and Gears + Class-Specific = No Blacklisting. What do you guys think?
 
Techx said:
blacklisted? is this like telling everyone you know not to group with someone because they rolled on something out of greed? or do you mean something else by blacklist in wow?
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I believe that this would be an outside list maintained by players. Pfft so silly and plenty of room for abuse.

In a worse case scenario you have a 20% chance of winning the item during a party roll. It can be frustrating but those odds arent horrible. The odds only get better with generous people and smaller parties.
 
On my sever atleast. My guild and several other reputable guilds work together to blacklist players who are greedy, rude, offensive, or some other kind of lamer. We do this for a good reason. Some players who you will find to be racists, loot ninja's (rogue stealing a LF pally belt for example to throw it in the AH), or otherwise deserve to be kicked in the pants. My guild and our friends comprise most of the high level healers on our server. So, if you get a bad rep. then your going to have a very hard time doing end game content or getting any kind of help. Again, we do not blacklist without good reason, and only higher ups in the guild are able to do this. People who are reputable and veteran MMORPG palyers. We review are lists at the end of each week and consider talking to some people who can be reformed.

Because of this, I rarely find anymore in my group any malicious players. Just a good people looking to help eachother. It works. :p
 
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