X-Fi or X-Meridian?

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alg7_munif said:
OpenAL is supported by all sound cards but OpenAL hardware acceleration is not supported by all manufacturers. If OpenAL is not supported, you can only play an OpenAL game without any sound. Btw CS:S is also not an OpenAL game :rolleyes:
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Link to where I said CS was? You just always point EAX. Simple point, they other cards can't do OpenAL=P Simple, the OP got it and you didn't, or at least pretend to have not gotten it.

Look?

CodeRed said:
dude, the only game I have on my pc right now is Counterstrike and even with the Revolution 7.1 I rarely used surround sound lol
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Originally Posted by Donnie27
I agreed that the Cmedia based cards were the best for music and even movies. I waiting on Prelude because I want the best for Games and Music. The feature should be there even if I don't use it. It's kind of crazy to pay that much money for less/fewer features and supported tech.
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CodeRed said:
Yeah I know what you mean about the features. However, I lived quite fine with an M-Audio Revolution, beat a few games with it, and I doubt I missed out that much...
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Donnie27 said:
Then the XMeridian should be a good deal and fit for you! Thanks for getting what I was trying to say.
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It should have stopped there since that was a very civil end to it but no, not with you LOL! None of this stops you and your side kick from posting in threads where guys asked about gaming either.
 
Ordered the X-M and some opamps (free samples ftw) :D You guys should stop arguing right around now...
 
CodeRed said:
The only reason I'd wait for the Prelude is for the possibility of a price drop on the X-M, but I really don't want to suffer for another month with my on-board audio..
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I don't even really believe Auzentech intends to lower the price, but I think they certainly could. Considering what I think the BOM could be, the Meridian is no steal (then again, it's a bargain compared to some pre-amps, so go figure).
 
Donnie27 said:
Simple point, they other cards can't do OpenAL=P Simple, the OP got it and you didn't, or at least pretend to have not gotten it.
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Stop spreading false information, eventhough some sound chip doesn't accelerate OpenAL, it can be supported easily by CPU so OpenAL is still supported, just the hardware acceleration is not. Read here on page 16.

1.6. Implementor's View of OpenAL
To the implementor, OpenAL is a set of commands that affect the operation of CPU and
sound hardware. If the hardware consists only of an addressable output buffer, then
OpenAL must be implemented almost entirely on the host CPU. In some cases audio
hardware provides DSP-based and other acceleration in various degrees. The OpenAL
implementor's task is to provide the CPU software interface while dividing the work for
each AL command between the CPU and the audio hardware. This division should be
tailored to the available audio hardware to obtain optimum performance in carrying out
AL calls.
OpenAL maintains a considerable amount of state information. This state controls how
the sources are rendered into the output buffer. Some of this state is directly available to
the user: he or she can make calls to obtain its value. Some of it, however, is visible only
by the effect it has on what is rendered. One of the main goals of this specification is to
make OpenAL state information explicit, to elucidate how it changes, and to indicate
what its effects are.
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Please don't go into the PCI bus latency argument because we have gone to that lame argument before and you know the truth. Now I would agree with the OP to stop the argument because I think that I've cleared up the OpenAL false information and the OP has also made up his decision, not an X-Fi btw =P
 
CodeRed said:
Ordered the X-M and some opamps (free samples ftw) :D You guys should stop arguing right around now...
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You will have to push all the pins in a bit the are spread out a bit and they need to be straight up and down to fit in the sockets. They look like this /-\ and you need them to be like |-| this makes them easier to snap into the slots. I put them on their side and roll them slightly with one finger with mild pressure to push that side of pins inward then switch sides...check against the socket every now and again. Beware of static.... I am guessing you don't have experiece with electronics if you do, disregard my suggestions. I had to buy my LM's they were $20 for 4 brought to the door. I would suggest trying out the card stock first so you really understand how much of a improvment your getting BUT, as soon as you listen to it you will know anyway.

@Phide, Yeah, you have to consider this is a small company compared to alot of others and they really built this card solid. Then once you hear it, well you have to hear it to understand. If your into electronics this card is impressive to look at....great build. Compared to some of the gear this card can best according to A/B tests at AVS it is a real bargain...
 
alg7_munif said:
Stop spreading false information, eventhough some sound chip doesn't accelerate OpenAL, it can be supported easily by CPU so OpenAL is still supported, just the hardware acceleration is not. Read here on page 16.

Please don't go into the PCI bus latency argument because we have gone to that lame argument before and you know the truth. Now I would agree with the OP to stop the argument because I think that I've cleared up the OpenAL false information and the OP has also made up his decision, not an X-Fi btw =P
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You're wrong in both cases, just stop arguing LOL! If and can be is not the same as does. If your Aunt had nuts, she'd be your Uncle;) XMeridian doesn't support OpenAL=P Now you stop spreading your lame assed BS! I know OpenAL can be done in software told you that Xtreme Audio is software based, what, short memory again?

CodeRed Ordered the X-M and some opamps (free samples ftw) You guys should stop arguing right around now...
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I wish!
 
Donnie27 said:
You're wrong in both cases, just stop arguing LOL! If and can be is not the same as does. If your Aunt had nuts, she'd be your Uncle;) XMeridian doesn't support OpenAL=P Now you stop spreading your lame assed BS! I know OpenAL can be done in software told you that Xtreme Audio is software based, what, short memory again?



I wish!
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I've provided the fact supporting my statements and I'm still wrong? I guess that you are right because you said so eventhough you didn't give any supporting facts :D
 
The Opamps aren't that hard to change. Are you gonna listen to the card with the Stock amps or just change them out first thing?
Your gonna be blown away by this card. Keep in mind there are a few more things you can do to improve the sound further. They all involve voiding your warranty though.
 
Audioguy said:
The Opamps aren't that hard to change. Are you gonna listen to the card with the Stock amps or just change them out first thing?
Your gonna be blown away by this card. Keep in mind there are a few more things you can do to improve the sound further. They all involve voiding your warranty though.
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Yeah, I've seen some capacitor mods on head-fi that may improve sound further. Is there anything else?
I dunno about the opamps yet, I'll probably listen to it stock before swapping them out.
 
The cap mod where you change the power cap..that is only part of the equation for that mod. Some claim it helps some say not so much. The other mod is DC coupling. This involves removing the caps on the outputs and/or bypassing them. Removing these caps removes the DC blocking caps from the circuit so it must be done correctly and you need to verify you don't have a large DC on the ouputs. Cap's in this circuit position always degrade sound. That is just a fact they are there for DC protection. Alot of receviers have them on the inputs so they are redundant in alot of cases. I just wanted you to know there are further things you can do. Any of the mods would involve voiding your warranty anyway except for the Opamp change.
 
Audioguy said:
The cap mod where you change the power cap..that is only part of the equation for that mod. Some claim it helps some say not so much. The other mod is DC coupling. This involves removing the caps on the outputs and/or bypassing them. Removing these caps removes the DC blocking caps from the circuit so it must be done correctly and you need to verify you don't have a large DC on the ouputs. Cap's in this circuit position always degrade sound. That is just a fact they are there for DC protection. Alot of receviers have them on the inputs so they are redundant in alot of cases. I just wanted you to know there are further things you can do. Any of the mods would involve voiding your warranty anyway except for the Opamp change.
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Thanks. Yeah, the main point of getting an X-Meridian was to avoid voiding the warranty this early :D
 
phide said:
Running the OpenAL installer allows OpenAL to function with the X-Meridian, correct?
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Yes aslong you install it in XP, It will alloud openAL to unction with the X meridian. because if it didnt, IT wouldnt work at all. I know it works when I play UT2004.It just doesnt work if you install it in Vista,unless they need to make openAL installer that supports vista. but in Xp yes it works.
 
Well Velbac is being written for Vista and a few guys have been messing with OpenAL for other purposes and for other cards in Vista.. so I have been told.
 
Donnie27 said:
In that case it would funtion with almost any software based sound card.



Last time I checked Auzentec was still working on full software OpenAL support.
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Yes it will function with all sound cards.
Updated Winter 2006 : Version 1.9.9

The OpenAL Installer for Windows will install the OpenAL 1.1 library, enabling support for core OpenAL operations as well as extensions such as EAX and EFX. The installer supports both 32-bit and 64-bit versions of Windows.

DLL Version numbers:


OpenAL32.dll version 6.14.357.19
wrap_oal.dll version 2.1.4.0

Changes and Bugfixes


Fixed Windows 98 crash bug
Fixed floating-point related slow-down in "Generic Software" device
Fixed Source Gain problem on Stereo Buffers.
OpenAL Router search path now includes Router's directory.
Windows Vista Default Device and Device Enumeration fixes.
ALC Capture Extension can now be used independent of playback.
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phide said:
What does "full software" support entail, specifically?
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It would imply a native OpenAL device implementation, which 'talks' directly to the soundcard without intermediaries and can be enumerated independently from the 'Generic Software' and 'Generic Hardware' devices. Those fallback implementations rely on MMSYSTEM/DS and DS3D respectively, thus under Vista there is only generic software.

It’s similar to OpenGL, full support needs an ICD but Windows implementation provides a software renderer.

Bottom line, both parties are bending the truth to their convenience, non-CL cards work with OpenAL, not because the cards support it but thanks to OpenAL’s generic devices, which are functional with practically any Windows compatible soundcard.
 
It is supported whether it is a generic hardware or software. Unlike OpenGL, the latest version OpenAL is version 1.1 and it is supported by all sound card with the available OpenAL installer. The latest OpenGL version available now is the version 2.1 however Windows only comes with the version 1.1 and you can only get a higher version of OpenGL with a device driver.

The performance difference between a "native OpenAL device implementation" and a generic hardware device is not very significant imo and you can see yourself some of the BF2142 benchmarks compairing the X-Fi with an Oxygen HD card. However the performance difference of a same GPU chip with different OpenGL drivers is more than significant. For an example, the NV40 chip with the Quadro 4000 FX driver is more than 3 times faster in OpenGL professional applications than the GeForce 6800 becuase the Quadro FX driver is a "native OpenGL device implementation".

Unless you can give me the advantage of using a "native OpenGL device implementation" over a generic hardware device (apart from the EAX extensions and a little performance advantage that can be compensated easily with a better CPU/GPU), I would suggest you to stop spreading the "OpenAL is not supported" BS.
 
alg7_munif said:
It is supported whether it is a generic hardware or software. Unlike OpenGL, the latest version OpenAL is version 1.1 and it is supported by all sound card with the available OpenAL installer. The latest OpenGL version available now is the version 2.1 however Windows only comes with the version 1.1 and you can only get a higher version of OpenGL with a device driver.

The performance difference between a "native OpenAL device implementation" and a generic hardware device is not very significant imo and you can see yourself some of the BF2142 benchmarks compairing the X-Fi with an Oxygen HD card. However the performance difference of a same GPU chip with different OpenGL drivers is more than significant. For an example, the NV40 chip with the Quadro 4000 FX driver is more than 3 times faster in OpenGL professional applications than the GeForce 6800 becuase the Quadro FX driver is a "native OpenGL device implementation".

Unless you can give me the advantage of using a "native OpenGL device implementation" over a generic hardware device (apart from the EAX extensions and a little performance advantage that can be compensated easily with a better CPU/GPU), I would suggest you to stop spreading the "OpenAL is not supported" BS.
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It's NOT supported by the Sound Card, it's supported by the Software Renderer in AC97. That's what I meant by the Sound Card doesn't support it;) Now speaking of ""OpenAL is not supported" BS will stop", saying *the Card Supports it should stop LOL!

Generic OpenAL is hit and miss, not done as well, causes some games to crash, doesn't like running in software mode and doesn't work in Windows Vista for most folks. Now you can simply say F You Donnie27, your opinion is meaningless or whatever you like. Running Core OpenAL is NOT the same as running HW-A OpenAL + EAX 3, 4, and or 5 =P That's a fact, not my opinion.

Again, I'm talking Sound Quality via effects added to make unrealistic sounds sound more life-like. I'm Not talking about Frames Per Second (for the 347th time). It would be pretty stupid to try and devorice one of the best features to try and equalize things. That's crazy:D The examples are in the last link to the last review you linked to.

There are still issues with Battlefield 2 (and 2142) with enabling hardware EAX. These games simply do not like having a non-Creative card trying to do EAX. This does negatively affect the game from an immersive perspective, as the sound just does not seem as “natural” without the EAX enhancements. Other than BF2 and Quake 4, I noticed no issues with the games I typically play and test with.
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Prey, Stalker, WarHammer and others have similar problems when none Creative Cards are used.

Example, I heard a DVD on my Bud's XMeridian. It was amazing to hear the Native sound done in DTS and DDL. There they (sound effects) were, fully occluded, obstructed even great distance sounds Pre-Rendered. One of those imaginary friends and I both agreed that it would be great if this card could render games like that. Same for Dolby Headphone. So I know what the hell the back end can do. It's the front end or Like of Processing that makes it NOT the best choice for any serious Gamer. That's for speaker or headphone.
 
Donnie27 said:
It's NOT supported by the Sound Card, it's supported by the Software Renderer in AC97. That's what I meant by the Sound Card doesn't support it;) Now speaking of ""OpenAL is not supported" BS will stop", saying *the Card Supports it should stop LOL!

Generic OpenAL is hit and miss, not done as well, causes some games to crash, doesn't like running in software mode and doesn't work in Windows Vista for most folks. Now you can simply say F You Donnie27, your opinion is meaningless or whatever you like. Running Core OpenAL is NOT the same as running HW-A OpenAL + EAX 3, 4, and or 5 =P That's a fact, not my opinion.



Prey, Stalker, WarHammer and others have similar problems when none Creative Cards are used.

Example, I heard a DVD on my Bud's XMeridian. It was amazing to hear the Native sound done in DTS and DDL. There they (sound effects) were, fully occluded, obstructed even great distance sounds Pre-Rendered. One of those imaginary friends and I both agreed that it would be great if this card could render games like that. Same for Dolby Headphone. So I know what the hell the back end can do. It's the front end or Like of Processing that makes it NOT the best choice for any serious Gamer. That's for speaker or headphone.
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BF2142 is an OpenAL game, EAX advance HD is not supported by the Oxygen HD chip but 128 voices is. Hardware acceleration is slower than X-FI but not very much slower even it is just a software renderer in AC97 like you said. From what I see here, the advantages are just a slighly faster performance and EAX 5. Do you really know what does "OpenAL is not supported" or "OpenAL is supported" means? From what I understand, not supported means that it won't run at all, no sound, nothing and I also think that people will understand your "OpenAL is not supported" BS like that too. Yes, running Core OpenAL is NOT the same as running HW-A OpenAL + EAX 3, 4, and or 5 but running Core OpenAL with limited capabilities is also NOT the same as OpenAL is not supported =P. The Oxygen HD spec stated clearly that EAX >2.0 is not supported.
 
oh really donnie games should crash with openAl on none creative cards. that case my openAl games should be crashing all the time from what you saying.

But guess what. My openAL games dont crash at all. I played BF2/BF2142 and alots of openAL games in XP. And they didnt crash for me at all.

the cards support 128 voices in software what part of that do you not understand. In BF2/2142 I used ultra and set my card as XFi in the options. I know it worked becuase i could tell. It might not had eax5 but still. it did the voices.

In vista yea openAL isnt gonna work for us. but games that dont force hardware acceleration works with 5.1 because I have alot of games which works in 5.1 in vista.

The only games that dont work in 5.1 for me are the ones that forces hardware acceleration like Doom3,quake 4, and uses OpenAL as the main. But games like Rain bow six vegas, SWBF2 my many other games works in 5.1 in vista.
 
AdmiralFlameberg said:
oh really donnie games should crash with openAl on none creative cards. that case my openAl games should be crashing all the time from what you saying.
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Some games on SOME systems crash, big difference. Just like Some Creative Drivers and Cards don't work correctly on SOME systems.

AdmiralFlameberg said:
But guess what. My openAL games dont crash at all. I played BF2/BF2142 and alots of openAL games in XP. And they didnt crash for me at all.
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Well good for you. If you think everyone had your luck, then you're way off.

AdmiralFlameberg said:
the cards support 128 voices in software what part of that do you not understand. In BF2/2142 I used ultra and set my card as XFi in the options. I know it worked becuase i could tell. It might not had eax5 but still. it did the voices.
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Not many are saying it sounds as good on None Creative cards=P

AdmiralFlameberg said:
In vista yea openAL isnt gonna work for us. but games that dont force hardware acceleration works with 5.1 because I have alot of games which works in 5.1 in vista.
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Since I don't use Vista, hey! Razer can't do fully supported OpenAL because AC97 can't do fully blown OpenAL=P It's at the mercy of Software Rendering. If we're talking Music Playback, I'm not disagreeing with you or anyone else here. But there's no way in hell I'm going with anything but X-FI for Games=P Most, not all, doing an HONEST A/B would do the same.

AdmiralFlameberg said:
The only games that dont work in 5.1 for me are the ones that forces hardware acceleration like Doom3,quake 4, and uses OpenAL as the main. But games like Rain bow six vegas, SWBF2 my many other games works in 5.1 in vista.
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See HSE's post? The 5.1 support you're talking about is not, full blown OpenAL but CORE FUNTIONS, that might be cool for some but many will NOT like it. You'll get the same problems and almost support from America's Army, Prey, Stalker, and tons of other games.

HSE said:
Those fallback implementations rely on MMSYSTEM/DS and DS3D respectively, thus under Vista there is only generic software.
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I'm NOT saying the CMedia based cards aren't good, they're just not as good for most GAMES=P #348
 
alg7_munif said:
BF2142 is an OpenAL game, EAX advance HD is not supported by the Oxygen HD chip but 128 voices is. Hardware acceleration is slower than X-FI but not very much slower even it is just a software renderer in AC97 like you said. From what I see here, the advantages are just a slighly faster performance and EAX 5. Do you really know what does "OpenAL is not supported" or "OpenAL is supported" means? From what I understand, not supported means that it won't run at all, no sound, nothing and I also think that people will understand your "OpenAL is not supported" BS like that too. Yes, running Core OpenAL is NOT the same as running HW-A OpenAL + EAX 3, 4, and or 5 but running Core OpenAL with limited capabilities is also NOT the same as OpenAL is not supported =P. The Oxygen HD spec stated clearly that EAX >2.0 is not supported.
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First of all the "not so Creative cards" from your avitar on the other forum is just flat better at OpenAL than the "not Creative at all" cards you love so much. 128 voices ain't shit without the rest of the support built into BF2 or 2142.

It's not just the numbers of sounds but transistions, game voice, occlusion, elevation, distence and all of the other crap that goes with it. All anyone has to do is listen for 15 seconds to hear the differences. AC97 can't be compared to OpenAL + EAX 5 in BF2 because you have to turn off all of the EAX support and Run OpenAL in Software to compare them, get it? If you don't, you're comparing 128 voices with at best ONE SOUND effect to 128 voices, 4 overall effects, separate effects like EAX voice and etc,,.

Your XMeridian doesn't support OpenAL. You have to depend of AC97 via the CPU. I said YOUR CARD. What part are you missing here? Auzen was working and has not yet completed Native support.

"but not very much slower even it is just a software renderer in AC97 like you said."

Because AC97 is doing less work, hell, it should run it faster, Doh! More sounds are processed, you're arguing about FPS with yourself:D
 
Donnie27 said:
First of all the "not so Creative cards" from your avitar on the other forum is just flat better at OpenAL than the "not Creative at all" cards you love so much. 128 voices ain't shit without the rest of the support built into BF2 or 2142.

It's not just the numbers of sounds but transistions, game voice, occlusion, elevation, distence and all of the other crap that goes with it. All anyone has to do is listen for 15 seconds to hear the differences. AC97 can't be compared to OpenAL + EAX 5 in BF2 because you have to turn off all of the EAX support and Run OpenAL in Software to compare them, get it? If you don't, you're comparing 128 voices with at best ONE SOUND effect to 128 voices, 4 overall effects, separate effects like EAX voice and etc,,.

Your XMeridian doesn't support OpenAL. You have to depend of AC97 via the CPU. I said YOUR CARD. What part are you missing here? Auzen was working and has not yet completed Native support.

"but not very much slower even it is just a software renderer in AC97 like you said."

Because AC97 is doing less work, hell, it should run it faster, Doh! More sounds are processed, you're arguing about FPS with yourself:D
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Before this you are saying that OpenAL is not supported, now you are trying to change the subject to EAX effects LOL. You can say that EAX effects are only supported by Creative's card and we had already gone through the EAX effects argument before so I won't even bother to reply if you want to argue about that again, I know that you weren't satisfied with the argument before =P Down here are some of the best selling PC games charts and please tell me how many are EAX games?

http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/772/772271p1.html
http://pc.ign.com/articles/746/746038p1.html
http://pc.ign.com/articles/736/736839p1.html
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You are talking about AC97 and yet you don't even know what that is LOL. Is every sound processing done by CPU is called AC97? Not even close.

We had this CPU sound processing argument before so don't even try to go through your lame arguments again LOL. It is a fact that I have a CPU that is capable of processing 512 voices and it also can apply different sound layers onto them depending on what the developer wishes.

I just hope that you can accept the fact that OpenAL is supported by most sound cards even if it is just a generic software device so please stop spreading false information about "OpenAL is not supported".

Btw you said that the Oxygen HD chip is just slightly slower because it doesn't have to do the effects but I wonder why the greatest sound processor is just a little faster even when it doesn't need to do a real time DD/DTS encoding :D
 
Actually ALG, you have the best audio setup for games at the moment. Dual card solution a X-fi as a DSP and a X-Meridian as a ouput sections kills a plain low-end X-fi for gaming sound quality. :D
 
If you use a application in the middle called Velbac. You can link a Creative card to another card for output. You can use the 20KX DSP processor and don't have to worry about the output section of the low-end X-fi's, such as the X-Music and X-gamer etc. These cards are just built as a quick and easy fix for EAX/OpenAL. They don't sound very good in music or movies or Non EAX/OpenAL games compred to alot of other cards. That is why they go for as cheap as they do..to try and compete with the better sounding cards. The word is the author is redesigning the application for use on Vista. If your interested in it...
In fact that X-fi and X-Meridian setup is pretty much what a Prelude could be compared to...
 
Audioguy said:
These cards are just built as a quick and easy fix for EAX/OpenAL. They don't sound very good in music or movies or Non EAX/OpenAL games compred to alot of other cards. That is why they go for as cheap as they do..to try and compete with the better sounding cards.
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That paragraph brings (x/a)^2+(y/b)^2 = 1 to my mind, for those who catch my drift.
 
Donnie27 said:
See HSE's post? The 5.1 support you're talking about is not, full blown OpenAL but CORE FUNTIONS, that might be cool for some but many will NOT like it.
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Okay, so what do the "core functions" entail? What is absent from a native implementation?

Donnie27 said:
It's not just the numbers of sounds but [transitions], game voice, occlusion, elevation, [distance] and all of the other crap that goes with it.
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Actually, BF2 has a basic distance attenuation function (like any game) when EAX is not enabled. The problem there is that this distance attenuation is not subject to filtering as they are when EAX is enabled (which inarguably heightens the realism factor a bit). From my understanding, occlusion should work correctly on cards that support EAX 2.0, but, for whatever reason, does not.

alg7_munif said:
Down here are some of the best selling PC games charts and please tell me how many are EAX games?
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Do you have any more recent lists?

alg7_munif said:
I just hope that you can accept the fact that OpenAL is supported by most sound cards even if it is just a generic software device so please stop spreading false information about "OpenAL is not supported".
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Saying that all sound cards support OpenAL is somewhat misleading. Similarly, saying that OpenAL is not supported by all sound cards is misleading. The truth actually lies within the middle.

alg7_munif said:
Btw you said that the Oxygen HD chip is just slightly slower because it doesn't have to do the effects but I wonder why the greatest sound processor is just a little faster even when it doesn't need to do a real time DD/DTS encoding :D
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According to Guru3D's review (which nobody seems to like):

The Meridian edges the X-Fi out when EAX is disabled, DDL is enabled and EAX is enabled on the X-Fi (3% for the Meridian). When DTS is enabled, and EAX is still disabled, the X-Fi with EAX has an 18% advantage. At these framerates, I'm not sure if it would have a substantial impact, but it's a fairly large performance hit.

HSE said:
That paragraph brings (x/a)^2+(y/b)^2 = 1 to my mind, for those who catch my drift.
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I can pretend to.
 
alg7_munif said:
Before this you are saying that OpenAL is not supported, now you are trying to change the subject to EAX effects LOL. You can say that EAX effects are only supported by Creative's card and we had already gone through the EAX effects argument before so I won't even bother to reply if you want to argue about that again, I know that you weren't satisfied with the argument before =P Down here are some of the best selling PC games charts and please tell me how many are EAX games?



You are talking about AC97 and yet you don't even know what that is LOL. Is every sound processing done by CPU is called AC97? Not even close.

We had this CPU sound processing argument before so don't even try to go through your lame arguments again LOL. It is a fact that I have a CPU that is capable of processing 512 voices and it also can apply different sound layers onto them depending on what the developer wishes.

I just hope that you can accept the fact that OpenAL is supported by most sound cards even if it is just a generic software device so please stop spreading false information about "OpenAL is not supported".

Btw you said that the Oxygen HD chip is just slightly slower because it doesn't have to do the effects but I wonder why the greatest sound processor is just a little faster even when it doesn't need to do a real time DD/DTS encoding :D
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Picks self up from floor from laughing so hard.

My MUSE 5.1 uses AC97, I use it with my A8N SLI and 3500+ before I got an Audigy 4 for that rig, hehehe! You must be kidding right? On the very first post I said "You just always point to EAX. Simple point, the other cards can't do OpenAL=P Simple, the OP got it and you didn't, or at least pretend to have not gotten it."

was a reply to;

Quote:
alg7_munif said:
OpenAL is supported by all sound cards but OpenAL hardware acceleration is not supported by all manufacturers. If OpenAL is not supported, you can only play an OpenAL game without any sound. Btw CS:S is also not an OpenAL game
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AC97 supports it, YOUR CARD DOESN'T! I haven't changed anything and you're grasping for straws. Your card supports DDL and DTS because they are part of the cards Features, OPENAL is NOT! If and when it works, it is because the CPU is doing it NOT YOUR CARD! Example, my card doesn't support Dolby Headphone but I can use Dolby Headphone because it came with my full version of Power DVD 6. Now connect the dots?

No, I say again, it is a stretch to try as say Core OpenAL is the same as full blown Native OpenAL even with or without EAX. Hearing BF2 or 2142 on the XMeridian or any of the other cards is like a bad joke! It worse with Prey.
 
phide said:
Okay, so what do the "core functions" entail? What is absent from a native implementation?


Actually, BF2 has a basic distance attenuation function (like any game) when EAX is not enabled. The problem there is that this distance attenuation is not subject to filtering as they are when EAX is enabled (which inarguably heightens the realism factor a bit). From my understanding, occlusion should work correctly on cards that support EAX 2.0, but, for whatever reason, does not.


Do you have any more recent lists?


Saying that all sound cards support OpenAL is somewhat misleading. Similarly, saying that OpenAL is not supported by all sound cards is misleading. The truth actually lies within the middle.


According to Guru3D's review (which nobody seems to like):

The Meridian edges the X-Fi out when EAX is disabled, DDL is enabled and EAX is enabled on the X-Fi (3% for the Meridian). When DTS is enabled, and EAX is still disabled, the X-Fi with EAX has an 18% advantage. At these framerates, I'm not sure if it would have a substantial impact, but it's a fairly large performance hit.


I can pretend to.
Click to expand...

First of all, I've heard BF2 on 3 different rigs with XMeridian (one moded) and there is not distance worth talking about, most of the time you're stuck with that where the hell that came from feeling.

The problem is not if occlusion works or not but that EAX 2.0 can only do one feature-effect at a time with 32 voices. If EAX2.0 kicks in on a none native EAX card, the voices are automatically dropped to 32 voices and ONE effect. If you get occlusion, you loose obstruction or elevation. If the card is busy processing one of the other effects, you'll either hear occlusion intermediately or not at all. You'd do better with EAX2.0 OFF in that case. Same damned problem SBLive suffered and why I hung onto my TB Santa Cruz for so long and still have an old MUSE 5.1.

I said OpenAL via software was hit and miss. Even when it hits, it's not all there IMHO!
 
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