Yet Another One Of Those Threads

T

tenub

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 20, 2008
Messages
355
First off, I play a wide range of games but mainly stick to CS 1.6, Dota 2, Path Of Exile, & Rift on ONE 1920x1080 resolution screen (I use the other for streaming, etc.). My current computer is unable to run Rift with reasonable FPS and maximum settings. With supersampling I get a pitiful 15 fps and with edge smoothing I am able to play but 20-25 fps is definitely not anything to get excited about. Back when I first got the computer and was running CrossFireX I was able to run Metro 2033 at maximum settings and a playable ~32 fps. I would prefer to be able to try games utilizing newer technologies in the foreseeable future at a reasonable fps.

Current System:

CPU: i7 930 (no longer OCed to 4.5GHz, now at 3.0GHz)
HSF: custom dual radiator water cooling loop (~$300)
MBO: Asus Sabertooth X58
RAM: G.Skill 3x2GB PC1600 (F3-12800CL9T-6GBNQ)
GPU: Asus EAH6850 DirectCU (no longer in CrossFire, only using one)
PSU: Seasonic SS-760KM
SSD: ADATA S599 64GB (used ONLY for OS)
HDD: Seagate 500GB ST3500418AS, Samsung F4 2TB ST2000DL004 (Seagate partitioned as 250/250 - 1st partition used for user files and all program installations, 2nd partition for Ubuntu install)
CSE: Coolermaster HAF 932 (full window)

Monitor(s): 2x Acer G235H​

I built this system roughly in Q3 of 2010, so it's been nearly 3 years since I've even payed attention to any new computer-related technology advancements. After landing a steady, fairly well-paying job and receiving a large tax refund for 2013 I have been more and more interested in replacing my computer in its entirety or possibly just parts of it. Unfortunately, after tons of research over the past week or so, it seems technology has not really advanced much with the exception of maybe SSDs and GPUs. However, the more I think about my current setup, the more I realize that what I really want is to get rid of this 30 pound pile of ridiculousness that is the HAF 932 and the headache that is a custom water cooling loop that I don't even fully utilize anymore (despite me not having cleaned it out EVER, partially out of fear of causing a leak and partly out of sheer laziness). But then I realize getting a new case would require removing and reassembling the water cooling loop and that I might as well just replace everything. Now I'm stuck in an endless cycle of indecision.

The new components I have been thinking about:

CPU: i7 4770K
HSF: Noctua NH-U14S | Corsair H100i ??
MBO: GIGABYTE GA-Z87N-WIFI | EVGA Z87 Stinger | ASRock Z87E-ITX | ASUS MAXIMUS VI IMPACT ????
RAM: G.Skill 2x8GB PC2400
GPU: GTX 770 | GTX 780 | GTX 780 Ti ??
PSU: reuse
SSD: Samsung 840 Evo 250GB
HDD: 2x Hitachi 4TB Deskstar 7K4000
CSE: Corsair 250D​

As you can see here, my goal is to run a computer that is easy to move while attempting to reduce noise in comparison to my current system.

I guess the broader question is:
is it even worth doing a full upgrade at this time? What would you do?
I really don't think I could wait 6-7 months for the new Maxwell cards or 6-12+ months for Broadwell (if it's even going to be that much better than Haswell).
 
tenub said:
I guess the broader question is:
is it even worth doing a full upgrade at this time? What would you do?
Click to expand...
The answer is yes if you choose the right parts.

Now would be a good time to upgrade. The Intel CPUs coming in 2014 won't be that much of an upgrade over current Intel Haswell CPUs. In addition, the Intel Skylake CPUs that are supposedly coming out in 2015 will more than likely use rather expensive DDR4 RAM. It probably won't be until 2016 when we'll see a mainstream Intel CPU that'll be a cost-effective and worthwhile upgrade over a Haswell or even an Ivy Bridge setup. Or that DDR4 pricing might drop down to more reasonable levels.

So yeah, upgrade now.

As for your planned setup, do note that current Intel platforms do not benefit that much from high speed RAM or even tighter timings. DDR3 1600 RAM speeds with any timings will be just fine.

As for the rest of the setup:
6) Will you be overclocking?
9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? USB 3.0? SATA 6Gb/s? eSATA? Onboard video (as a backup or main GPU)? UEFI? etc.
 
I was in a very similar situation until 2 months ago, upgrading my X58 system to Haswell. I'm reusing the 3x4 GB of memory, and I think you should do the same, unless your G-skills require 1.6V.

Are you sure you want to downsize to a miniITX and not just a microATX if you're going to abandon your HAF rig? (you sound like you despise it haha)

The 140mm fans may cause some major cramping in the 250D even if that Noctua fits.

Any reason for your choice of hard drives? will you be RAIDing them? those Deathstars have 5 platters each which isn't ideal. If cost isn't a concern and you're using them for media, the 4TB Seagate ST4000VN000 has 4 platters (I have the 3TB, 3 platter version in RAID 1 for media).
 
Dangman said:
As for the rest of the setup:
6) Will you be overclocking?
9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? USB 3.0? SATA 6Gb/s? eSATA? Onboard video (as a backup or main GPU)? UEFI? etc.
Click to expand...

6) Not unless it gives a substantial benefit (ie. ~10+ fps in a game that normally runs at ~30-40 fps)
9) Quality audio chipset, quality LAN chipset, RAID, USB 3.0, SATAIII


rastaban said:
Are you sure you want to downsize to a miniITX and not just a microATX if you're going to abandon your HAF rig? (you sound like you despise it haha)
Click to expand...

It's simply too bulky. :) The 250D got amazing reviews so that's why I chose it. MicroATX isn't out of the question though, or even a small mid tower.

rastaban said:
The 140mm fans may cause some major cramping in the 250D even if that Noctua fits.
Click to expand...

Sounds like the Corsair may be a better choice then. Are you supposed to clean those all-in-one watercoolers out? I don't know much about them other than that they're the new fad.

rastaban said:
Any reason for your choice of hard drives? will you be RAIDing them? those Deathstars have 5 platters each which isn't ideal. If cost isn't a concern and you're using them for media, the 4TB Seagate ST4000VN000 has 4 platters (I have the 3TB, 3 platter version in RAID 1 for media).
Click to expand...

The thought was to raid them, yes, but if a single drive will do just fine for performance I'm willing to save $200 and lose 4tb of storage. My current F4 takes a while to access and seems to be getting slower and slower which is what I want to try and avoid.
 
tenub said:
6) Not unless it gives a substantial benefit (ie. ~10+ fps in a game that normally runs at ~30-40 fps)
9) Quality audio chipset, quality LAN chipset, RAID, USB 3.0, SATAIII
Click to expand...

Since you're really not going to overclock, I would not bother getting the 4770K. Get the Core i7 4770 instead. $40 cheaper and virtually the same performance. The 4770K is only worth it if you're actually planning to overclocking from the get-go.

Also, again, since it sounds like you're not going to overclock, then the AsRock Z87E-ITX should be more than enough for your needs.

tenub said:
Sounds like the Corsair may be a better choice then. Are you supposed to clean those all-in-one watercoolers out? I don't know much about them other than that they're the new fad.
Click to expand...
AFAIK, no, you don't clean them out.
 
Dangman said:
Since you're really not going to overclock, I would not bother getting the 4770K. Get the Core i7 4770 instead. $40 cheaper and virtually the same performance. The 4770K is only worth it if you're actually planning to overclocking from the get-go.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info, but I do live near a Microcenter and with a $10 difference between the 4770 and the 4770K, it seems stupid not to just spend the extra $10 in case I do decide to OC.
 
tenub said:
Thanks for the info, but I do live near a Microcenter and with a $10 difference between the 4770 and the 4770K, it seems stupid not to just spend the extra $10 in case I do decide to OC.
Click to expand...
Actually, the price difference is greater than that: Microcenter offers a $30 off deal when you buy a LGA 1150 mobo with the 4770K
 
Upgrading is always a good idea, more so when you have money to do so but, call me crazy, the RIFT specs are a joke, even a cheap laptop would be able to run it so, unless you have some sort of a malware problem or play the game at the same time you are streaming a Netflix movie and downloading a 10GB file, I just don't see how your rig would even burp once... then again, I never play online so I really don't know if what I am assuming is correct.
 
Dangman said:
Actually, the price difference is greater than that: Microcenter offers a $30 off deal when you buy a LGA 1150 mobo with the 4770K
Click to expand...

Ah, you mean I actually SAVE money ($20) by choosing a 4770K with a motherboard rather than paying an extra $10? That's a really good deal, but it seems the motherboards are all standard ATX form, so unless there's a really nice compact / light / well-constructed mid tower case out there I would probably just pay the extra $10 and stick with a Mini-/MicroATX.

motolube said:
Upgrading is always a good idea, more so when you have money to do so but, call me crazy, the RIFT specs are a joke, even a cheap laptop would be able to run it so, unless you have some sort of a malware problem or play the game at the same time you are streaming a Netflix movie and downloading a 10GB file, I just don't see how your rig would even burp once... then again, I never play online so I really don't know if what I am assuming is correct.
Click to expand...

I play in fullscreen windowed at 1920x1080 with EVERY setting maxed. Streaming HD twitch.tv on my second monitor doesn't seem to affect my fps either.
 
Last edited:
tenub said:
The thought was to raid them, yes, but if a single drive will do just fine for performance I'm willing to save $200 and lose 4tb of storage. My current F4 takes a while to access and seems to be getting slower and slower which is what I want to try and avoid.
Click to expand...

I don't think there is appreciable performance (speed) differences between modern HDDs with 3+ platter count. I'd be a lot more concerned about reliability. Many of the high capacity drives nowadays are marketed as NAS or power saving with variable or lower spindle speeds, so if you are looking for fast access, you are probably looking for the 7200rpm models.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong here but I think 1TB platters are the highest density parts available right now. For 7200 rpm high capacity, I like the 3 TB Seagate Constellation CS ST3000NC000 since reliability is targeted at the enterprise market and works well with RAID. There is also a 4TB model, but the 7200 rpm version is hard to find.

Regarding the AIO cooling solution, the dual fan ones like the H100 perform slightly better than the best air coolers. But realistically, those things get clogged with dust and become harder to clean than air coolers, imo. Especially with mITX cases that often lack dust filter features on vented side panels, I can see it being a problem. I swapped out my H70 a couple years ago because it was impossible to clean the way it was mounted, performance was no better than a midrange air cooler, and the noise was only as good as the fans you add on.
 
rastaban said:
Regarding the AIO cooling solution, the dual fan ones like the H100 perform slightly better than the best air coolers. But realistically, those things get clogged with dust and become harder to clean than air coolers, imo. Especially with mITX cases that often lack dust filter features on vented side panels, I can see it being a problem. I swapped out my H70 a couple years ago because it was impossible to clean the way it was mounted, performance was no better than a midrange air cooler, and the noise was only as good as the fans you add on.
Click to expand...

Believe me, if I could fit a NH-U12S in the Corsair 250D I would get it over the H100i. I'm open to an air cooler but I read here that the clearance is 140mm and the NH-U12S is 158mm tall. If I could get a better cooler or case recommendation I would be much appreciative.
 
tenub said:
Ah, you mean I actually SAVE money ($20) by choosing a 4770K with a motherboard rather than paying an extra $10? That's a really good deal, but it seems the motherboards are all standard ATX form, so unless there's a really nice compact / light / well-constructed mid tower case out there I would probably just pay the extra $10 and stick with a Mini-/MicroATX..
Click to expand...
Umm....look at the catalogue again:
http://viewer.zmags.com/publication/69a01362#/69a01362/33

I see six mITX mobos listed right there. Of those six, one of them happens to be the same one I recommended earlier.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top