You have to wonder which Computer company you can trust

E

elazarus

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 1, 2007
Messages
162
As many of you know, Early in January I purchase a Computer from Velocity Micro that arrived missing the stabilizing feet and without drivers in stalled and it was not in the condition build-wise as their reputation would have left me to believe.

Now 3 weeks later I have yet to receive credit for the $2500 machine which was noted on my account and sent back the next day after talking to customer service.

So, I went ahead and ordered 2 machines...why 2? So I don't have to go through this for some time, from AVA Direct. Shipment date is February 8, 2007.

No e-mail, no shipment and as of today, the first day I checked the order on the website...nothing except the word processing.

They were quite fast in e-mailing a form that I needed to sign because the Credit card amount was over $1000. They sent that in 5 minutes and I fax'd it back within minutes. They called immediately after that to say the Hard drive I ordered only had 1 in stock and I told them to pick 2 Hard drives that were the same, their choice, as I did not care.....and that was the end of it.

I sit here as the owner of 9 e-commerce sites and a public forum that gets 20,000 hits a day. If I don't answer an e-mail with in 30 minutes the clients get crazy. If I do not ship the same day, if ordered by 3pm CDT they cancel orders. True I sell high end watches and luxury leather goods, but I get no slack from my clients....and the item better be in perfect condition or else it comes back.

I had to buy a factory in Florence Italy to make sure that quality control was maximized to avoid production delays or anything less than 99.9% quality control.

So what is the purpose of this post, you ask? Is there a computer company that can be trusted to deliver a good product and on time? I have reasd all the editiorial on the Integrators and Boutique shops and I have more doubt about the ability for them to deliver what they promise. I think we give the Boutique's too much credit as I believe they charge themaximum but the quality control and customer service, although based here in the U.S. is not much better than the integrators.

This is a sad state of the computer industry today. No matter how much research, no matter what you spend you are at the mercy of slow service, lack of quality control and overall, sloppiness.

I have taught salespeople for 38 years that the best service comes from the Electric Company. You don't think about them but when you turn the light switch on, you get perfect service.

Why is the buying process, the build process and the delivery process in the computer business not held to stricter standards? How do they get away with such poor service....have computers become such a commodity, that we are at the mercy of these company's? I may have to add another e-commerce store one of these days to build and deliver computers built right the first time and delivered one day before the shipment date written on the sales order.

Then all we would not have to think...the computer is handled and we know the Elctric company will do their job.....problem solved.

But as for VM and AVA Direct, they let me down......and VM is quite slow in generating the credit for the machine on my AMEX card.

They need to be held accountable to a higher standard if they are going to live up to the reviews.

Thank you

Elliot
 
I understand your frustration man but have you considered that there might have been stability issues or hardware failure problems that they caught in your builds? Have you called them? Have you considered that the date was in fact an extimated ship date? Its TWO days late on ship date. You bought a custom computer build you need to cut them some slack. Sure we all expect perfection and people to meet their deadlines but that sometimes doesnt happen especially with custom work.Which would you have rather have perfection or rushed sloppy computers that dont work right?

You can hardly IMHO compare a custom builder to selling watches and leather goods. Your customers expect and reasonably so that when they order a watch or leather product from you that you will in fact have the item in stock if you say you do and therefor will in fact ship it same day.
 
I do hundreds of Custom Made watch straps a week, in addition to in stock straps......if you order on Sunday and yes I work 7 days a week, Your strap is made in Italy Mon/Tuesday and shipped to me where I ship it to you on Friday...you get it within 1 week......My clients expect it to be perfect and fast......some want it cheap....you can only have 2 of the 3.

As for the Computer people...Velocity Micro sent out a bad build....I received an RMA and sent it back....they charged my AMEX the same day Iordered it but so far 3 weeks and no credit.

As for AVA...well, better off saying 2 weeks and send it in 10 days then saying 1 week and have ZERO communication. Yes, these are custom built...but it means nothing to me...why? So many people say build it yourself it is so easy.....if it is so easy why can't the people who do it for a living do it right.

And if they are having trouble, why not a simple e-mail saying so. Do I really want a machine that they had trouble booting up?????

Cut them some slack? When they say the price is $2500 and you say ok or build me 2 of them which I did, I never checked the production until AFTER the date promised....I took them at their word.....now their word doesn't mean anything. So Velocity Micro and AVA Direct are dead to me. I am writing this so people will know that if they choose to do business with them, this is what they may expect.

People on this forum said to me call customer support a Velocity Micro to resolve the issues.....Why? eith they build a Boutique model that is right or they don't. There is no need for discussion. And if they agree to take it back, they should credit the card.

Slack? If I want to cut slack and put up with crap I would have bought from a Big Box store and settle for a pre-bild where i could expect this type of service....

Sorry, but this type of business is unacceptable.......funny thing, I do not grind on price....I do not skimp on what they want to put in the box.....I just want it right the first time.....apparently many people choose to settle for less. Every hour I spend with customer support is one less hour of revenue production.

Thank you

Elliot Lazarus
 
I'll check on the status of the credit. We typically issue them within a day of getting the system back, so I don't know if anything is wrong or if we just failed you again, but I'll find out. Sorry it didn't work out.

Randy
 
Can you honestly say in all your dealings that you have never missed a ship date for any reason? I bet you cant..... Stuff happens in life that causes delays that are beyond anyones control. If your expectation was that the computers would have shipped on 8th of feb and they havent and you want to complain or get info all it would take is a simple phone call on your part to resolve that issue.

Sure in a perfect world you wouldnt have to make that call yourself but since you seem to have a huge issue with the missed ship date and lack of comunication have you even discussed your expectations with the company in question? Apparently not. If you had you would KNOW what the problem was and why there was a delay. I am also pretty sure their ship date was an estimated date because I just bought a computer with AVA myself and I was never given a firm ship date it was always represented to be an estimate.
 
Actually here is the relevant section from AVAdirects web site


Shipping Policy

It normally takes 2 - 3 business days to ship out parts that don't require assembly. After your order is placed, it takes up to 7 business days before parts/kits arrive at your front door.

Computer systems are assembled, tested and shipped within 5-7 business days. After your order is placed, it takes up to 10 business days before a new system arrives at your front door.

Please make sure that name, number, and expiration date are entered exactly as they appear on your credit card. Incorrectly entered data will delay authorization and processing of your order.

AVADirect® does not ship on Saturday or Sunday. Due to shipper restrictions we cannot deliver to P.O. Boxes. All Shipments are subject to stock availability. AVADirect®'s shipping and handling charges are based on each individual product's weight, and are calculated as determined by AVADirect®. AVADirect® does not guarantee estimated ship times included on the avadirect.com site, nor does AVADirect® guarantee any claims made by any carrier.



Please read paragraphs two and four... Particularly the last sentance of paragraph four.... they very plainly state 7-10 business days for typical system builds and that they cannot and do not guarantee the "estimated ship times".........
 
I agree with Elliot here in that if an estimated shipping date is not met, a very simple email saying something like "We apologize that we were unable to meet our estimated shipping date and here is why: "overnight testing revealed a bad memory stick. We have installed a new memory stick and are currently re-testing"." Or -- "john the builder called in sick and we don’t have anyone else to replace him today". j/k

Just be honest and forthright with the customer. We all understand there are delays, understanding why allows the customer to better plan his/her schedule. Perhaps if Elliott here knew there was a delay, he could have rented a system for a day or so to fulfill his commitments.

When someone pays premium prices they absolutely should demand and expect premium product and services. Anything less is unacceptable. From what I read, that is the case here. Elliot paid for premium service, but is not getting it. If he wanted to be ignored, he could go elsewhere and pay less.

However, Elliot, if one of your orders is going to be late, what do you do? My guess would be that service you deliver, you expect. Remeber, no good deed goes unpunished.
 
I see we have a "Devil's Advocate", a few posts above...so let me please address whether I have missed a ship date.

The answer is simple...YES I HAVE.

What have I done? The day before it is to be shipped and it has not arrived from my factory in Italy, I ship out, FedEx, a watch strap of very high quality with a hand written note apologizing and to please accept this strap as my gift and I will keep you in the loop as to when this shipment is expected.

I don't ask questions, clients don't need an RMA, if we mess up like the above they get 2 for the price of 1.....Many times if they are a valued long term client, they get a gift certificate for the price of the strap that is delayed along with the delivery of the strap.

That, I believe, is customer service and that is why we have the repeat and referral business that we do. So before you say that "Iam sure you have had the problems etc" ...please keep in mind that I take care of problems today becasue tomorrow they may be twins.

Imagine, if you will, a post from me saying:

I received a call from AVA and there was a delay in the build and the ship date wasXXXX. They did call me last Monday to say that they did nothave the hard drives I ordered so we know they have my telephone and e-mail.

Imagine if Velocity Micro had said when I called to discuss the problems with the computer....."Tomorrow we will send the same machine build out to you and you can send this one back in the box"

I guess you cannot see the forest for the trees. Spend 2 times as much for a machine but you can only expect 100% not 200% service. Sorry guys, but if you are going to spend that much time reviewing and discussing, then don't sugar coat anything and lay it all out there.

By the way, I sold my advertising agency in Los Angeles 4 years ago, retired for 1 hour and made my hobby, watches, a business and today have 9 companies, a huge public forum, astrap factory in Italy and we are the largest seller of straps for Panerai watches in the world. I know a little something about expectations and customer service. Perception is reality.

Thank you

Elliot
 
I'd be much more concerned with the quality of the build than having it a few days late.There's a lot of factors that can delay a build,from a defective part that a replacement may not be immediately available for,an unexpected compatability issue,even problems with the operating system,a relevent issue with VISTA having just been released.Anyone can throw the parts together,configuring all those parts to work together in a stable and trouble free manner is a whole different thing.I'd rather have them do it right than fast.
 
Thinking ahead of time......

I ordered XP Professional so that Vista would not be part of the equation.

Also, I did not order any software and so in addition to XP Pro all I would assume to be in the machine would be the Drivers including the DVD drivers.

It was a simple build of the best quality parts.

Elliot
 
I agree with you Elliot.

Good quality and customer service doesn't happen by accident. Bad service is becoming the norm. As you may see, for whatever reason, people actually defend or make excuses for these companies that claim great service, charge for it, but fail to deliver.
 
michael.pa here's the point. when ordering some people basically say "fine, build me the highest quality system you claim to make and provide the best service you claim to have. Simply provide me the value for my money". If they agree by taking the money, then getting anything less than the highest quality is being cheated. That is what I believe Elliot did in this case. He didnt quibble the price. What I believ he is saying is that as an enthusiast, he feels the boutiques are the way to go. However as a buisnessman, they fall short compared to other merchants of world-class quality products. Perhaps some dont wish to compete in that class. Eliot is not pointing the finger at VM or AVA, per sey, but at the entire botique computer shop industry.

VM, AVA, OPC and the others stake their repution with each system they create. They are not discount dealers, competitive yes, but they dont, or should not cut any corner. Most do or should strive to go the extra mile. They are the boutique shops who set the bar high. We, the customers, will determine if they live up to the standards they set.
 
Hey Elliot is TCStraps your site?

I assume so since it seems to fit all your statements in this thread so far.

We try to ship all orders placed by 3pm Central Time the same day Monday through Friday and , if we can, also Saturday. Saturday, we are faced with an 11am cutoff time CST. All orders placed after 3pm Monday through Friday generally go out the next day. Special orders take 28 days.

Does TC take custom orders for watch straps?
TC can make any strap on our website for you in any width or length. Custom strap orders take 28 days from the time we put in the order not when you place the order. So be sure to ask for the time frame when placing your custom strap order.

Does TC have a retail store?
No. Time Connection is an e-commerce website and sells through the internet only. We do have toll free telephone numbers from the U.S., Great Britain, France and Hong Kong.
Please keep in mind that these phones ring in our Texas Office which is GMT -6 hours. We are not there to answer the telephone 24 hours a day....sorry.



CONTACT

Time Connection
100 Commons Road
Suite 7410
Dripping Springs, TX 78620

Telephone Hours: Monday-Friday 10am to 7pm CST
Weekend Telephone Hours: By random chance
Tel: U.S.: 512.351.1133
UK: 020 7193 2344
France: 0870 403 244
Hong Kong: 8125 4824

I made some italics in there to highlight somethings that I think you should look at in your own policies about what you claim.... Sure looks lto me like you give yourself plenty of wiggle room there to cover issues which AVA also did so how is there a difference? Stuff happens....
 
Thank you for pointing out my policies....

It is better to UNDERPROMISE and OVERDELIVER.....

It is Saturday and I am sitting here sending out special order straps so people get them ahead of schedule and answering the phone...877.34.WATCH.....and answering e-mail.

I wrote above that I work 7 days......and this is proving it. On the website it says "weekends by chance" but if you call you get me.

Special orders take up to 28 days....now look at the Mario Paci or Giovanni e Figlio and see what the time frame says......

Elliot
 
Elliot,

From reading this and the other treads you started, it seems as though you are very passionate about your business. Your problems with computers are causing you to lose money and deal with heartache. If these computers are so important, I would think that you would pay a premium for the maintenance, upkeep, and well being of the portal to which income flows. I did a google on your name and it seems as though you have something very good going for you. I would suggest taking more time out of your schedule and learning more about computers so you can preform all of this yourself, or go to Dell-Business and get some 24/7 support. And business class hardware/software. You don't need a full time IT department for your business, but when you can't access what you need to access, you lose money. That money you already lost could have gone to the above support and you would not have the heartache you now have. Take the plunge, get the support and don't worry about it again. Chaulk up the lost money from not having access to your business as a wakeup call for serious IT support. You obviously have a niche market and need to keep the rep up. Good luck in the arena.

Oh, and my Tissot T-Touch was stolen a while ago....I am still pissed...
 
Hi Tiamatu,

Sorry to hear about your watch.....

I was trying to stay under radar about my business interests but you guys are too good at finding stuff on the net....Did you also see that I was the EL in Dav-EL limousines, the largest lomousine service in the WORLD....built it up and left it.

I have a couple of Dell's and my trusty IBM Thinkpad laptop. I buy new computers so I do not have to keep them updated or have IT people come in.

I had the PC Doctor from Austin come in and he spent 2 hours and could not fix a thing. My trust in Dell Support got lost somewhere over the Pacific on the way to India. As did my trust in Dell computers.

We are running. Fortunately I have redundant web hosting for each of my web sites and the orders come into 1 of 14 e-mails.....so my computer is not the difference between staying in business or not. I get anew car every 27 months so I do not have to have any broken parts or repairs needed. even though the warranty is for 50k miles.

Hell, I answer e-mails on my Blackberry that come in day and night if I am out and about and not at my desk. People want service. People want quick service. When you have a question that is the most importhant thing on your mind...most businesses don't get it.

Has AVA gotten back to me since Thursday....NO...no shipping, no response.

Randy says they usually issue a credit in 1 day, he will find that they didn't...I sent him the tracking info as proof.....

OK all of this said......where do I get a computer, actually 2 of them, built well from a trusted dealer/maker who will deliver what they promise.

OH, and one other thing, to the gentleman who quoted my website.....did you catch some of the tongue in cheek? Weekends by Random Chance....that gets people to call and then I get to speak with them....the personal touch. On the special orders can I spell it out any better than it is when I put in the batch order not the second you place the order...well spelled out...no room for a discrepancy.

Thank you

Elliot
 
I'd suggest you go on down to BestBuy and purchase an in-stock pre-built VelocityMicro. Same quality builder, same quality VM service. Im sure you could get them to take it out if the box and show it to you working. There is a certain satisfaction in seeing what you are buying before you actually lay down the cash. If it suits your needs, you are set.
 
Well, at least Elliot and I are both working on Saturday night (until my wife catches me on the computer ;)) when we should probably be relaxing somewhere. I agree that service is the ultimate portion of the computer experience that is the last degree and so tough to deliver, given our product of choice. If I could personally handle every single order, like I once did, then I could always guarantee perfect service. These days at Velocity, nearly 100 of us still strive for perfect service, and I'm still bothered when we drop the ball, or twice in Elliot's case.

That's also the reason that of all the boutiques, only VM has in house tech support by my own employees in my own building right here in Richmond with 24/7 support available to any customer that selects it. It's a huge commitment and not a profit center, but we do it to try to go the extra mile.

I'm very sorry we sent you a dubious computer, and failed (so far, it looks) to issue you a credit back. We did waive the restock fee that is the norm in our industry, for what that's worth. Honestly, it's the great feedback from customers like you that keep us working even harder, so that we never have a single disappointed customer. That doesn't mean we don't usually hit the mark with the best support in the world. It's getting harder to do as we ship thousands of high end computers per month these days. I promise we are trying harder than ever to be perfect, and handling it as professionally as possible when we don't. I'm fully committed and invested in this long term goal.

Best,

Randy
 
mket said:
michael.pa here's the point. when ordering some people basically say "fine, build me the highest quality system you claim to make and provide the best service you claim to have. Simply provide me the value for my money". If they agree by taking the money, then getting anything less than the highest quality is being cheated. That is what I believe Elliot did in this case. He didnt quibble the price. What I believ he is saying is that as an enthusiast, he feels the boutiques are the way to go. However as a buisnessman, they fall short compared to other merchants of world-class quality products. Perhaps some dont wish to compete in that class. Eliot is not pointing the finger at VM or AVA, per sey, but at the entire botique computer shop industry.

VM, AVA, OPC and the others stake their repution with each system they create. They are not discount dealers, competitive yes, but they dont, or should not cut any corner. Most do or should strive to go the extra mile. They are the boutique shops who set the bar high. We, the customers, will determine if they live up to the standards they set.
Click to expand...

I agree that getting a high quality system is the true test of a builder,but in this case,he seems to be condemning AVAdirect solely on the time of delivery,which as I pointed out,can be affected by a wide range of circumstances.You can't judge a company before you've even tried out their product,and you certainly can't equate the difficulties in building a system to making a watch strap.
 
michael.pa2 said:
I agree that getting a high quality system is the true test of a builder,but in this case,he seems to be condemning AVAdirect solely on the time of delivery,which as I pointed out,can be affected by a wide range of circumstances.You can't judge a company before you've even tried out their product,and you certainly can't equate the difficulties in building a system to making a watch strap.
Click to expand...

Precisely. Personally, I can't think of a single watch strap that can be damaged by ESD. Perhaps it is because I've never had the joy (nor the desire) to own a watch that costs me more than a meal at Olive Garden, but I just don't see how a watch strap can be damaged during shipping. But then again, I've also never ordered anything watch related online either. I'll admit to that right up front.

Still, I think it should say something to know that the President and CEO of VM is addressing this issue personally, rather than hand it off to a trusted subordinate who is supposed to have equal authority or "just enough" authority, like you would see at oh, just about everywhere else that doesn't hold itself to such high standards, or someplace whose owner does not hold himself or herself to those standards. It's why I went to the boutique builder by me before it closed up shop for so long, and why I was happy to pay a higher price for the same thing that I could get at Micro Center down the street. Even though I paid a higher price, I knew I was getting service and treatment that I wouldn't get at Micro Center. I had the ability to talk to someone who knew me on a first name basis right when I walked in. I dealt with people who were knowledgable about the parts they sold, and if they didn't know something, they didn't give me some line of bullshit. They flat out told me they didn't know, but they would have no problem looking into it for me, and they did, whether it meant looking up information for me, or asking the technician on hand. They were honest, up front, and were people that I could talk to as well as buy things from. They became more than just someone I could consult about what I want to do. They became my go-to people for the things I needed. They were people that were passionate about what they did, and read the same reviews and articles that I did, if not more than what I do. You are lucky to see that maybe once in your entire life out of a retailer employee. Someone who can become your go-to person, and the ONLY person you will talk to about the things you want to spend your money on. For me, it's when you can establish that kind of trust with me, that I will buy from you, and only you. Hell, at the store I work at now, there are only certain people in certain departments that I will go to for any of my needs. And if they are not working that day, I would rather wait until they are in again, rather than deal with someone else.

In this case, I think this is the kind of standard that just about any person with a business should hold themselves to. No matter how big or small, just because you went from a pathetic excuse of a startup business to something big and great, it doesn't mean you suddenly can't address the issues of your customers. I think it only means that you should work to become more involved, so that your customers know that you care about them.

I had a point in this somewhere, but after working six days in a row on about less than 20 hours of sleep in the last five of those days, I think I lost it.
 
From the boards here, I would definitely buy from VM and Corsair as both have reps that are without doubt outstanding. Randy has 100 employees working very hard to produce a good product. There are always problems that come with growing businesses. For the most part, I am sure that VM does a great job at getting the right things to the right people at the right time with as little hassle to the end consumer 99% of the time. When things do go south, then they still have 999 people that bought computers and keep the business running. This does not mean that VM can ignore and be rude to customers etc..., but think of what Elliot does for a living. He sells watch straps for high-end watches. he probably is very precise in what he does and his business lives and breathes on making sure the watch bands are exact. if I bought a $1000 dollar watch and ordered a band for it, I would think that band would have to be the best thing in the world in order to satisfy my expectations. Can you say the same thing about computers? No. They have a vast difference in the number of parts that are going into every build. The chance for something to be wrong is exponential. I hope that the issue is resolved and both Randy and Elliot have learned something from the endeavor. I have learned that if I want another watch, then Elliot would be a good person to contact. If I want a good computer from a company who’s CEO will step in and post to a public forum, then VM it will be. I guess it is all about perspectives.
 
Excellent point Tiamatu.

Yes, a computer has so many more parts than a watch strap and a lot more can go wrong.....but let's look at it ithis way.

I sell 20% of my straps to people who put them on $500 to $3000 watches.

50% of my straps go on watches that are $4000 to $18,000. and the balance goes to people who own Vintage Panerai, Patek etc that cost from $20,000 to $125,000.

The watch straps average$100 to $300...only because I own the factory....Any competitor would have to sell the same straps for $500. Do you think someone who pays $100 for the least expensive and a few hundred dollars (each person has at least TWELVE Straps per watch and most of these people own 5, 10, 15 or 20 watches) would accept anything from me that is less than 99.9% perfect?

Many of these people spend $5000-$7000 a year on straps and they refer 2,3 or 4 people each. We average 2000 straps a month and watches and accessories increase the numbers we ship. Not bad for a guy who retired 4 years ago and came out of retirement 1 hour later.

People post pictures of their watches with my straps on many forums and if there is the slightest imperfection in the hide or the workmanship they say so. If it is perfect, they say so. I am only as good as my last new idea, my last produced strap, my last delivery to them.

The bottom line....computer, watch strap, car, Mouse, meal in a restaurant whatever....you have only one shot to keep a customer. Many businesses work harder to get new business than to keep existing business. I find it better and easier to get more Revenue from existing clients beofre I advertise to get new ones...but if my internal is not 100%...I better not advertise to get that new business.

Just a little food for thought.

Regards

Elliot
 
It kills me when someone buys $1000 worth of straps and we send out 26mm instead of 24mm.....How do we make lemonade out of lemons? See this post that was placed today on a watch forum:

TC Straps- Elliot is a Stand Up Guy- AWESOME service!
With all the drama going on here lately- (yeah I know i started it...) i thought I'd let you know of my experience with Elliot of TC Straps-

Got in on both of the Super Bowl Big Balls promotions-

Close to $1000 worth of goods.

Elliot graciously even swapped out one of the straps for me so i would not get a duplicate. Stuff showed up- all incredible quality- but half of them were wrong size...

I emailed him, and before i could even work out how to return the ones in my posession I get a fedex tracking # for the replacement straps-

Now THAT is customer service above and beyond, and now he's got a customer for life!!

Thanks E!!


Sat Feb 10, 2007 2:38 pm

ssalxpanerai
Im Coming Around


Absolutely the best. No question ask. No doubt. Go for it.
I already have several from him.


Sat Feb 10, 2007 10:09 pm

WatchDude13
V.I.P/Contributor



Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 458
Posts per day: 4.58


Sheeeeet, it's his damn fault that I have 16 or so straps for my two PAMs (and a few more straps on the way).

Damn him!

No one is perfect butit is so easy to take a mistake and get a lifelong client and GREAT word of mouth....and all it took was an immediate FedEx airbill label because we never question the client.

Just wanted to share customer service with something posted yesterday and handled yesterday.....a Saturday.....where someone above was clear in showing us my statement about WEEKENDS: BY RANDOM CHANCE.

It goes back to underpromise and overdeliver whether it is the first time or after a screw up.

Elliot
 
elazarus said:
It is better to UNDERPROMISE and OVERDELIVER.....
Click to expand...

Elliot is right on the money (Pun intended? )
I worked for Nordstrom (ever heard of them?) for 4 years. Customer service was HAMMERED into us. ALWAYS give good customer service...No Matter what. ALWAYS Underpromise and Overdeliver...Everytime.
This was a real challenge for my coworkers and I...We worked in Loss prevention.
We were told, In no uncertain terms, to give good customer service...When we ARRESTED people!
That is the difference between a company and a GOOD Company.
Be sure to let us know the URL when you start up that Computer COmpany Elliot ;)
 
I'm really surprised that you didn't receive an email from AvaDirect on your order. My experience with them currently has been nothing short of outstanding. Communication has been quick and concise everytime I have a question.

I am absolutely certain that if you have question about the status of your rig, you could phone them and get an answer in about 10 seconds, or if you email them you'll get a reply within the hour.

Contact [email protected] and he will tell you exactly what's happening to your rig.
 
Eliot my whole point above by posting your own terms was to point out several things you need to consider yourself in regards to this situation.

First off your terms say you "try" to ship out things same day if ordered by 3pm cst. Well did you ever consider that AVA might have tried to send things out to you by the 8th? Do you every time all the time send emails to everyone if you cant send things same day? I bet there have been times you havent.

Second your terms state your 28 day build time for your custom straps can take "28 days from when you place the order" NOT from when I place it. Ever considered that AVA build times start from when they start the build process and NOT from when you placed your order?

Third you say you work week ends but you answer the phones based "on random chance".... Well AVA is pretty upfront about the fact they dont do business on weekends yet you come here to complain about them on a day they obviously ARE NOT open for business.....

You come on here acting like the world ended cause you didnt get your systems by the ESTIMATED ship date... very key word there ESTIMATED..... They are upfront and tell you they dont guarantee those dates in their terms so I fail to see where they failed you in their service.... Sure they could have called you to say hey things slipped and we cant meet our estimate but in the end with your attitude all you would have done was tried to cancel on them. My god man you wanted a refund over a 2 dollar or less rubber foot.... I think thats going beyond nitpicking as I believe this situation is...... NO where were you guaranteed any firm ship date... You act like you are so perfect so PLEASE by all means open your own computer builder company so we can all bask in the perfection of service that is Eliot...... To top things off with all the time you have been pissing and moaning about the lack of service you could have called or emailed AVA ten times over and found out what the deal was but no you cant do that... its easier to complain.....
 
I already e-mailed AVA Direct on Thursday evening.......it is Sunday at 12:37pm and I am in my office and I have yet to receive and answer.

Yesterday, I received my American Express bill and the charge for the 2 computers were on there the same day that I placed it with the salesman on the telephone and had to send back a signed form authorizing my credit card.

Did you ever think that I should have fax'd them a form to sign as to the delivery date, how it was to be built and boxed and shipped and if the did not do any of those things I could choose whether to accept the machine?

Why must it be ONE WAY???? OK, I am a crook who had to prove my credit card was real. Now it turns out they are less than honest as they did not deliver and have not returned my e-mail.

You say I should call them....why? I don't let anyone do my job for me or my people, why should I do the job for AVA DIRECT?

I am telling you IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO GET GOOD SERVICE IN THE COMPUTER INDUSTRY!!!! This is not my thinking, this is what the companies are proving with the evidence that they provide or better yet DO NOT provide.

How long is an hour? You said that is how long it would take them to get back to me.

Now, where can I get a couple of computers? I have lowered my standards to what I will buy since I cannot get 2 performance machines at the asking price.

You guys stand up for them, but don't you see that every angle that you suggest has been covered????? How would you feel if this was your car? Your home? Your dental filling? A pair of shoes from a place other than Nordstrom (by the way, I prefer Nordstom over ANY store and I rarely take anything back but I know that I can).

Elliot
 
You're getting the reaction you're getting because you come off as a whiner who'd rather talk about how awesome the service at your watchstrap business is rather than understand some fundamental realities about the situation you're in.
 
OK Technoob..

I understand your point......So this is what I am going to do. First I am going to past AVA's shipping blurb that was on my receipt:

It normally takes 2 - 3 business days to ship out parts that do not require assembly. After your order is placed, it takes up to 7 business days before parts arrive at your front door. Computer systems are assembled, tested and shipped within 5-7 business days.

That being said...I see no need to speak any more on this topic...The majority would rather attack the messenger than open their eyes. I just looked at some of the problem threads on this forum and see that I am not the only one.

From now on I will just lurk and only comment when someone like yourself starts "whining" when there is a problem. It is inevitable, and it is going to be funny...maybe not for you but definitely for others.

I am sorry it has come down to this.....I was actually going to put up a poll today and let someone choose a computer from the "Builder of their Choice" and let them order it, I would pay for it...and we would see how it plays out.

I am sorry to have taken up all this bandwidth. But I do have to say that the comments do parallel many other forums including home entertainment, watches, cars and more.

We know that Randy at VM will refund the money. We know that AVA Direct will get back to me when they feel like it. And we know that I am typing this on my Dell which still works....I guess I just saved $3 to $5k.

Elliot Lazarus
 
elazarus said:
That being said...I see no need to speak any more on this topic...The majority would rather attack the messenger than open their eyes.
Click to expand...

Sometimes you have to step back and wonder if maybe the problem isn't the builder. Reading the discussion you've had here, you come off as singularly unreasonable. I only comment because you're the one sharing all this on a public forum. I also don't work for or carry water for any of these companies. Myself and others are simply pointing out that you seem a bit high strung about these things. No skin off my nose that you're not buying from them...you seem to think that by buying a dell you're spiting the people on this forum somehow. Buy what works for you, and good luck.
 
Technoob said:
You're getting the reaction you're getting because you come off as a whiner who'd rather talk about how awesome the service at your watchstrap business is rather than understand some fundamental realities about the situation you're in.
Click to expand...
Precisely,I can't relate to someone who talks about $400 watch straps but can't be bothered with making a single phone call.E-mail is very convenient,but hardly fool proof,if I had a nickle for every time a message to or from me got lost in cyberspace I could afford one of those straps he keeps touting.It's clear he has no conception of what effort goes into building a system.I'll agree there are bad vendors out there,just ask anyone unfortunate enough to be caught in the Monarch debacle,but to condemn the whole industry because your system is a little late and you can't be bothered with picking up the phone hardly elicits sympathy.
 
Ummmmmm looking back at your posts Elliot you only purchased your systems on the 1st of febuary as per this post http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1152400 by my count you are STILL within the 5-7 business days for build and shipping and the 8th would have been the MINIMUM of that 5 to seven days and the 12th which isnt here yet is the end of that 7 business days.

I find it hard to believe you are complaining at this point. For AVA or anyone for that matter a business day is a day they are open for buisness not just any ole day and AVA does no business on weekends. Thats just classic IMHO you dont even have a valid complaint but yet you insist on running them down.
 
Elliot

I think you need to be realistic here. The computer industry is different than the watch industry. you can probable tell if something is defective relatively quickly but this is not true with electronics the computer industry has for a while now been having problems with falure issue witch can increase lead time. A computer and especially a quality computer takes time and mistakes can be made. like I posted in another thread your the kinda person that hurts this industry and other like you do the same in others. I understand it sucks your got let down and I'm sorry. But like I said in Velocity micro follow up thread your the kinda person who goes I have a oh problem and doesn't give the company a chance to fix the problem. You had problems with Velocity Micro and you sent the computer(s) back before even posted on this forum and then you trashed on them wow nice job. If would have posted here or called here and said you weren't satisfied with your purchase I'm sure randy would have made you where happy either with a rebuild or repair and a T shirt and they might have even given you a hardeware/warrenty upgrade to make sure that you where happy. then you get up set about AVdirect trying to make sure that your credit card was real, and because your didn't get an email or call, but you refuse to call them because you don't want to do there job give me a break. there is a difference between doing there job and helping to make there job and your order goes smoothly and calling or emailing a company doesn't seem that hard for you to do, I personally don't think it pushes the limits of the customer. Don't get me wrong I liked to be an informed customer but I won't be customer who drags a company though the mud and gives them no chance to defend themselves. Its OK to have high standards but its not OK to be a jerk. its people with attitudes like this that rune good company's names because they won't help themselves.

I sorry for the Length of this post but far to many people get scared away from good company this way.
 
I see Elliot using examples to point out what he feels should be the standard. Some here are posting as if giving the computer industry excuses. From what I have seen, Randy never offers excuses. If he see or hears about a failure, he sees that it is corrected. Moreover, he takes steps to see that it doesnt happen again!

Sure, a company can legally cover thier ass with words about estimates and appoximations, however, if you do that, simple communication is vital and cheap. A one-liner at the end of the day on the work order which the customer could view would likly go miles here for Elliot

Personally, Id love to have a site at the builder which provided a webcam of my system as its being built. I'd love to have a daily progress report.
 
mket said:
I see Elliot using examples to point out what he feels should be the standard. Some here are posting as if giving the computer industry excuses. From what I have seen, Randy never offers excuses. If he see or hears about a failure, he sees that it is corrected. Moreover, he takes steps to see that it doesnt happen again!

Sure, a company can legally cover thier ass with words about estimates and appoximations, however, if you do that, simple communication is vital and cheap. A one-liner at the end of the day on the work order which the customer could view would likly go miles here for Elliot

Personally, Id love to have a site at the builder which provided a webcam of my system as its being built. I'd love to have a daily progress report.
Click to expand...

And I'm sure the extremely raised premium the customer pays for the bandwidth on that, would be worth it. /sarcasm

Seriously though, while it's not a bad idea, it's probably not something that would be considered feasible.

Still, I can see both sides of the coin. On one hand Elliot would've liked to be informed. On the other, VM's customer service standards have been met, but not necessarily to what their customer base would like. But in the world of owning a business, isn't raising the customer service bar a naturally occuring thing? Hell, I'm sure even now Elliot plots ways of making his customer service even better, even though he pretty much covers the bases already.

One thing I would definitely like more e-retailers to do, hell, anyone that does business online for that matter, is maybe offer a little extra miles in customer service, like calling to confirm that their purchase was received in satisfactory condition. I mean, the last thing I'd want is a computer part I buy coming to me looking like it was used for soccer practice at the UPS warehouse or something. Either that, or maybe a small form where people can get their honest input down and sent in, or a URL on a piece of paper to where they can fill out their experience online, either with a ratings system or where they can even fill in the good, bad, and ugly about their experience, or the product they purchased. (i.e. Was your item received in satisfactory condition? 1= Item was delivered in poor condition 5= item was delivered without flaws)

This way, if the customer doesn't provide feedback, it's on them. If there are customers who provide feedback, then it's up to the company to take that into serious consideration, and use it to only better themselves, and improve their business. Elliot does have a point in that improving your current business can only help you get even more business. Word of mouth is free advertising, and nobody likes to refer a friend to someone who's out to cut and run. I had a friend who worked as a loans officer who operated on this idea and actually made some pretty good money doing it.
 
On the subject of feedback,there are forums like this one,as well as customer ratings sites like ResellerRatings where people can let others know how their experience with a company was,and I'd encourage customers to use them,it helps when trying to make a decision which vendor to use.It would help also if the vendors themselves took time to look at them,I've seen both VM and AVAdirect respond to posts here,which tells me they at least care what the customers are thinking.
 
Elliot's credit was processed on 2/7 after the system was returned to us on 1/31. The refund was delayed because it was originally routed to the repair team before it was flagged as a refund. It often takes quite a few days for the credit card company to note the refund on the account. I am sorry the system didn't work out and the refund took a week.

Best wishes, Elliot, and I'll be looking for a strap one of these days!

Randy
 
LOL I love how his 3 week wait on his credit was in fact only ONE week and his 5 to 7 business day ship time on the AVA systems ends at close of business today. Way to overreact and spout nonsense......... Seems about as unreasonable as a person can be.
 
Wow

An amazing thread. Sorry for the crap you went through, Elliot. I sincerely appreciate your sharing the experience here with us.

I'll tell you what. Seeing the apologists here attacking Elliot for merely pointing out a very reasonable concept - Communication between a business and it's customer - makes me frickin sick. Seriously. People attacking the guy becasue he dares to share his experince?

" you're either with us..or your a terrorist?" mentality? WTF?

Seriously? WTF?

Elliot, you may have read my review of my purchase from Maingear. The system is awesome. But I did knock them on their communications as well. Sadly, most of this business is younger people, enthusiasts most likely, that just don't understand the imperative for good communications. And sadly, the market atm is the seller's, so shotty practices get over looked, and excuses made for them, like we see here, going as far as attacking the messenger. Craftsmanship is NOT a corporate principle, it's a small business principle. Once a boutique grows, generally speaking, Craftsmanship gets tossed. Just like the personal customer attention.


Kinda rolls down from the top though, doesn't it? Leadership by example: They didn't like Wilson's report, so they out his wife.....
 
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