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FrgMstr

FrgMstr

Just Plain Mean
Staff member
Joined
May 18, 1997
Messages
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While Jerks of the Web will not help you get any work done, or be a good resource for anything, it is certainly nice to see that some folks are a bigger jackass than I am. But let’s not try to kill folks, k?

Not all incidents of Web villainy have a humorous side. In 2006, a 13-year-old girl committed suicide after being harassed repeatedly on MySpace by someone she thought was an 18-year-old boy. After her death, it became clear that the boy was, in fact, a creation of the mother of one of the girl's former friends.
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I think people have forgotten that words, either written or spoken, do have influence and power over people. Trust me, when I ask my wife something as simple as "what are you eating" can be easily heard as "you are calling me a fat cow and think i'm ugly". :)
 
On one hand it's the parent's responsibility to discipline youth (I think youth are mostly out of control these days) but then again, with parents like these around. They doom generations to come :mad:
 
I love the lawyer chick.......way to put yourself through the grueling schooling that is required only to send e-mail to a future boss saying, "blah blah blah"

Gotta love the "New America"
 
That lawyer chick just trashed her career. I am never amazed at the stupidity of people, but constantly amazed at the brilliance of people ;)
 
I'm surprised the StarForce guys aren't on there after posting torrent links to Stardock's Gal Civ 2.
 
Well, you all know what they say:

retarded.jpg
 
Trepidati0n said:
I think people have forgotten that words, either written or spoken, do have influence and power over people. Trust me, when I ask my wife something as simple as "what are you eating" can be easily heard as "you are calling me a fat cow and think i'm ugly". :)
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To those comments, I usually respond "Yes, you are fat as a cow, which is why I'm asking"
 
I laughed about the mass killing in WoW for the funeral they held, obviously its a game where people are free to perform action, and on a PVP enabled area, they could of easily held it in a non-contested zone but instead held the event in a constested one. People didn't sign a contract to not fight, and its a game, people don't pay to attend funerals and I would hold no ill will twords those who decided to crash it, sorry guys its a game in a fictional world, i'm sure the deceased would be pleased enough that you held something, horribly planned but good in thought.

There was no "bully'ing" involved, or griefing, its not like they stood there and camped their corpses.
 
zoom314 said:
That's just terrible that an Adult would intentionally or not drive a teenage to commit suicide, The woman should have minded Her own business and not bothered the teenager, As clearly She contributed to the Girls death, The woman must have violated some law or laws I'd think, Possibly the girls rights too. :(
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Agreed. She may as well helped her pull the trigger.
 
My company brought in a Web 2.0 expert to discuss ways to incorporate things like Wikis, SecondLife avatars, and MySpace/FaceBook pages into a corporate learning environment.

Most attendees went on about how scared they were about exposing themselves to the kind of abuse they try to protect their kids from. I asked them how dangerous they thought an internal website could be if their corporate e-mail address was stamped on every post.

I've never used FaceBook, but sites like that and LinkedIn only work because of the relative lack of anonymity. They become quite self-policing.

MySpace, SecondLife, and forums (like these) on the other hand, put a higher value on privacy and therefore need to rely on moderators to vet content. Identities and contact info can change on a whim. It's like Lord of the Flies in here. :) I don't mean you guys, of course.
 
Trimlock said:
I laughed about the mass killing in WoW for the funeral they held, obviously its a game where people are free to perform action, and on a PVP enabled area, they could of easily held it in a non-contested zone but instead held the event in a constested one. People didn't sign a contract to not fight, and its a game, people don't pay to attend funerals and I would hold no ill will twords those who decided to crash it, sorry guys its a game in a fictional world, i'm sure the deceased would be pleased enough that you held something, horribly planned but good in thought.

There was no "bully'ing" involved, or griefing, its not like they stood there and camped their corpses.
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You're one disturbed individual with no sense of compassion. You're proving the article correct when they say it's all too easy to forget there's a real person on the other side of the wire.

To justify your actions on the internet by saying "it's just a game" or "it's just the internet" or "this isn't real" is just plain sad.
 
It amazes me how many people are too stupid to click the "block" or "mute" button in games, on websites, chat rooms, voice chat servers, etc. Someone's an asshole and I don't have time to argue with them and make them cry? I'll just block them and move on with my life. Why is it that so hard to do for some people?
 
Big D. said:
It amazes me how many people are too stupid to click the "block" or "mute" button in games, on websites, chat rooms, voice chat servers, etc. Someone's an asshole and I don't have time to argue with them and make them cry? I'll just block them and move on with my life. Why is it that so hard to do for some people?
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Probably wouldn't have saved that 13-yr old. The "18-yr old" worked hard to gain her trust and didn't become abusive until the end. You can't block that kind of devastation.
 
I'm sorry but the situation with that 13 year old is just dumb for a ton of reasons. To begin with, if she's so depressed that someone bullying her on Myspace will drive her to suicide someone should have noticed the signs long before that. It seems clear to me that you have to be clinically depressed or something to allow that to drive you to kill yourself. I feel sad for the girl who's life was so sad that pushed her over the edge. As for the mother/bully, toss her a$$ in jail and be done with it. The Myspace/facebook generation puts waaay to much emphasis on what's going on on their page and not enough attention to what's going on in real life. My worry is that in a few years if communication doesn't come from a text or someone "writing on your wall" no one will know what to do!

</rant>
 
Azhar said:
You're one disturbed individual with no sense of compassion. You're proving the article correct when they say it's all too easy to forget there's a real person on the other side of the wire.

To justify your actions on the internet by saying "it's just a game" or "it's just the internet" or "this isn't real" is just plain sad.
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There's a key point that you missed though. It was just a game. I'm not justifying all actions on the internet with this statement, but you are being pretty harsh towards someone's opinion about a specific circumstance. If they wanted to show respect for the dead, try should have attended the real-life funeral. A cyber-space faux-funeral only cheapened the life of the deceased.
 
8fingers said:
There's a key point that you missed though. It was just a game. I'm not justifying all actions on the internet with this statement, but you are being pretty harsh towards someone's opinion about a specific circumstance. If they wanted to show respect for the dead, try should have attended the real-life funeral. A cyber-space faux-funeral only cheapened the life of the deceased.
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You plan on paying their tickets or have their parents sign permission slips? They were friends on the internet and it's only fitting to hold a funeral on the internet as well. Most everybody on that server respected the wishes of the guild except for that one guild who just wants you to pat them on the back for having the balls to do what they did. It's sick.
 
Azhar said:
You plan on paying their tickets or have their parents sign permission slips? They were friends on the internet and it's only fitting to hold a funeral on the internet as well. Most everybody on that server respected the wishes of the guild except for that one guild who just wants you to pat them on the back for having the balls to do what they did. It's sick.
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You play WoW too, don't you?

/leaving thread
 
While this type of incident is tragic and I would hate to diminish this incident as anything less than that, I feel there is another side that just isn't considered here and no one has spoken of it. Obviously this teenage girl that commited suicide already had problems mentally speaking.

I've had strange things and extremely cruel things said and done to me over the course of my life as I am sure we all have. I never once entertained the thought of killing myself over them. I don't think any one could say anything to me that would make me kill myself. So while these people who did this false profile on MySpace are horrible human beings and should bear some responsibility for this, I ultimatey think that the final responsibility lies with the girl who killed herself.

Our choices are our OWN. You can try to blame everyone else, and I know most people in today's society blame themselves last for anything, but that still doesn't change the undeniable fact that all choices are ultimately yours whether you'll cop to them or not.

Saying the people that created the false Myspace profile are at fault is like saying that if you called someone a bastard during the course of the day and that person killed themselves over it, you should go to jail for it. I simply think this is wrong and placing responsibility for our actions on anyone else is ultimately the worst thing we can do as a society.
 
Dan_D said:
Saying the people that created the false Myspace profile are at fault is like saying that if you called someone a bastard during the course of the day and that person killed themselves over it, you should go to jail for it. I simply think this is wrong and placing responsibility for our actions on anyone else is ultimately the worst thing we can do as a society.
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Your example doesn't work at all IMO. When, as an adult, you know a child is mentally disturbed and suicidal (especially a teenager) and you decide to provide certain incentives to augment that....you do have responsibility to it. Faults are RARELY 100% contributed to a single factor.
 
8fingers said:
You play WoW too, don't you?

/leaving thread
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and you blame violence on video games while you're stereotyping WoW players, right? Something tells me I need to take Dan's advice about ignoring people.
 
Azhar said:
You plan on paying their tickets or have their parents sign permission slips? They were friends on the internet and it's only fitting to hold a funeral on the internet as well. Most everybody on that server respected the wishes of the guild except for that one guild who just wants you to pat them on the back for having the balls to do what they did. It's sick.
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Sorry a game is not a place to hold a funeral, it was ill planned and foolish to not take any precautions they could, to hope nothing could happen in real life is hoping it won't rain, to hope something won't happen in a game is someone not crashing the party, so a few people got killed in a game, thats going to cause emotional stress? friends in the game were hurt because they couldn't get out of their game to send a card or letter to the family to express their sad feelings. People who die in real life die all the time, I had a friend in EQ die due to old age, on our message board a mailing address was set up for us to send in letters since the game was what he played in his non-family-spending time alot since he was house bound, we mentioned his name in the game a couple of times but that shit needs to stay out of the game, its cheap and lazy to hold a faux funeral in a virtual world.

Just because a couple of players crashed the party wasn't enough to justify them greiving anybody.
 
Trepidati0n said:
Your example doesn't work at all IMO. When, as an adult, you know a child is mentally disturbed and suicidal (especially a teenager) and you decide to provide certain incentives to augment that....you do have responsibility to it. Faults are RARELY 100% contributed to a single factor.
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Is anyone sure that these people knew this girl was truly mentally disturbed? If these people were absolutely aware of this fact then yes, the are certainly responsible. In that I agree. Otherwise I don't. Her death isn't the result of a single factor, but I think criminal charges are a bit much unless these people KNEW she was mentally disturbed. If the kid had never been evaluated by a qualified phsychologist as having a particular disorder than I would really question how they (or anyone else) could know with 100% certaintly she was mentally ill.
 
" Abdala:

bla bla bla "

LOL. I can already hear the bursts of laughter from the prosecutors as they walk into the courtroom knowing they are up against the "bla bla bla" chick.
 
Oh look, there was second page. Get off the WoW bashing, granted I dislike WoW and most MMORPGs.

I have to agree that the adult contributed to this childs death. Whether some believe your actions are solely your responsibility (good for you! yay!) an adult bullying a child is just wrong. Anyway you look at it bullying in general contributes to alot of depression in teenagers, especially those with already low self esteem.

An adult befriending a child can tell if the child has issues. Its why she chose to take advantage of her. She already had knowledge about the girl from her own daughter. Send the bitch to jail.
 
tehblue said:
" Abdala:

bla bla bla "

LOL. I can already hear the bursts of laughter from the prosecutors as they walk into the courtroom knowing they are up against the "bla bla bla" chick.
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Yeah, her career is defnitley destroyed.
 
Dan_D said:
Is anyone sure that these people knew this girl was truly mentally disturbed? If these people were absolutely aware of this fact then yes, the are certainly responsible. In that I agree. Otherwise I don't. Her death isn't the result of a single factor, but I think criminal charges are a bit much unless these people KNEW she was mentally disturbed. If the kid had never been evaluated by a qualified phsychologist as having a particular disorder than I would really question how they (or anyone else) could know with 100% certaintly she was mentally ill.
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I could give a rat's ass about all of these except this girl's suicide.

Here's where thing's get serious:

Those of us who are older were brought up with the advantage of life without the Internet, hence we are (usually) able to parse out what's real and what is made up.

I hate to use the term, but "kids these days" are brought up in this bizarre world where their focus is so far removed from reality that it's frightening.

Too many adults are more concerned with American idol than raising their children with a decent grasp on what's really important in life.

Add to that the train wrecks that pass for role models for these kids.
I know that there have been a lot of messed-up celebrities throughout history, but I can't think of a time in our past where the likes of Britney, Paris and Lindsey would have not only been a national obsession but been held up as what a girl should aspire to.
Don't even get me started on role models for guys.....

Our present society has created the lethal mix of raising kids in an environment of over-sexed marketing of every product imaginable and parents who refuse to expose their children to the ugly-but-necessary process of dealing with pain and disappointment with the misguided notion that making life pain and discomfort-free is better for their little darlings.

The result: Kids who mature physically and socially at a very young age, who have a very skewed expectation of what life will be like and who don't have the emotional maturity to deal with reality when it hits them.

Now factor in the Internet's ability to spread everything everywhere in no time at all.

Did that women know what her actions could cause?
Damn straight she did. She has a daughter just like the girl that killed herself. As far as I'm concerned, she's guilty of murder 1. Premeditated, calculated and intentional.

Until we return to being a society where people are raised to understand that they will be held accountable for the results of their actions, stuff like this will continue to escalate.

I need a Valium....:)
 
gathagan said:
I could give a rat's ass about all of these except this girl's suicide.

Here's where thing's get serious:

Those of us who are older were brought up with the advantage of life without the Internet, hence we are (usually) able to parse out what's real and what is made up.

I hate to use the term, but "kids these days" are brought up in this bizarre world where their focus is so far removed from reality that it's frightening.

Too many adults are more concerned with American idol than raising their children with a decent grasp on what's really important in life.

Add to that the train wrecks that pass for role models for these kids.
I know that there have been a lot of messed-up celebrities throughout history, but I can't think of a time in our past where the likes of Britney, Paris and Lindsey would have not only been a national obsession but been held up as what a girl should aspire to.
Don't even get me started on role models for guys.....

Our present society has created the lethal mix of raising kids in an environment of over-sexed marketing of every product imaginable and parents who refuse to expose their children to the ugly-but-necessary process of dealing with pain and disappointment with the misguided notion that making life pain and discomfort-free is better for their little darlings.

The result: Kids who mature physically and socially at a very young age, who have a very skewed expectation of what life will be like and who don't have the emotional maturity to deal with reality when it hits them.

Now factor in the Internet's ability to spread everything everywhere in no time at all.

Did that women know what her actions could cause?
Damn straight she did. She has a daughter just like the girl that killed herself. As far as I'm concerned, she's guilty of murder 1. Premeditated, calculated and intentional.

Until we return to being a society where people are raised to understand that they will be held accountable for the results of their actions, stuff like this will continue to escalate.

I need a Valium....:)
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Great post. :)
 
gathagan said:
I could give a rat's ass about all of these except this girl's suicide.

Here's where thing's get serious:

Those of us who are older were brought up with the advantage of life without the Internet, hence we are (usually) able to parse out what's real and what is made up.

I hate to use the term, but "kids these days" are brought up in this bizarre world where their focus is so far removed from reality that it's frightening.

Too many adults are more concerned with American idol than raising their children with a decent grasp on what's really important in life.

Add to that the train wrecks that pass for role models for these kids.
I know that there have been a lot of messed-up celebrities throughout history, but I can't think of a time in our past where the likes of Britney, Paris and Lindsey would have not only been a national obsession but been held up as what a girl should aspire to.
Don't even get me started on role models for guys.....

Our present society has created the lethal mix of raising kids in an environment of over-sexed marketing of every product imaginable and parents who refuse to expose their children to the ugly-but-necessary process of dealing with pain and disappointment with the misguided notion that making life pain and discomfort-free is better for their little darlings.

The result: Kids who mature physically and socially at a very young age, who have a very skewed expectation of what life will be like and who don't have the emotional maturity to deal with reality when it hits them.

Now factor in the Internet's ability to spread everything everywhere in no time at all.

Did that women know what her actions could cause?
Damn straight she did. She has a daughter just like the girl that killed herself. As far as I'm concerned, she's guilty of murder 1. Premeditated, calculated and intentional.

Until we return to being a society where people are raised to understand that they will be held accountable for the results of their actions, stuff like this will continue to escalate.

I need a Valium....:)
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I agree with all your points except the last one. You don't know that she knew what the outcome of her actions would be. She's probably not smart enough to know. Many people do things without any knowledge of what the consequences will be. I seriously doubt they knew the extent of this girls mental illness or even knew she was mentally unstable to enough of a degree to kill herself. If she did, then I agree, she's guilty of murder and she needs to be locked up or get the death penelty. However if she didn't know this girl would have killed hereself over this than all she's guilty of is being a manipulative asshole.

You can't send people to jail because they hurt someone else's feelings.
 
Dan_D said:
I agree with all your points except the last one. You don't know that she knew what the outcome of her actions would be. She's probably not smart enough to know. Many people do things without any knowledge of what the consequences will be. I seriously doubt they knew the extent of this girls mental illness or even knew she was mentally unstable to enough of a degree to kill herself. If she did, then I agree, she's guilty of murder and she needs to be locked up or get the death penalty. However if she didn't know this girl would have killed herself over this than all she's guilty of is being a manipulative asshole.
You can't send people to jail because they hurt someone else's feelings.
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True, true.

The FOX news story on this puts a different complexion on it from my initial understanding: "There's no dispute that Mrs. Drew was aware of the creation of this MySpace," Banas said. "It was done by a young person that was in the employ of her — an 18-year-old girl along with her younger daughter — and the sole purpose by all parties that were involved in this was has been to find out what Megan was saying about this 13-year-old daughter of Mrs. Drew."

"Banas said based on additional interviews, the fake MySpace page was not created by Drew. He said the page was created by the 18-year-old employee, though the mother and her 13-year-old daughter knew about the page. He said he was unable to speak directly with the 18-year-old, whom he said has been hospitalized for psychiatric treatment."

I was not originally aware of the role that the 18-year-old played in this.
My vitriol is probably more properly directed at her.
If her hospitalization is legit, then living the rest of their lives with the knowledge of what they've done is probably a far greater punishment for the lot of them.
 
I agree with most of your posts, but at some point your actions go beyond "hurting someones feelings" and cross into the realm of harassment. While this word and accusation gets tossed around _far_ too much in schools and courts these days, there's no denying it exists and the psychological effects it has. While kids need to learn to stand up for themselves and function as a human being -- which means getting your feelings hurt and dealing with it in a reasonable way -- at some point the law or the parents need to step in and protect them.

Now, I agree that the bar that constitutes harassment should probably be raised and not relied on all the time; but the manipulative, calculated, and extensive lengths this woman went to should probably constitute harassment so she should be liable on some level. I'm not arguing Murder 1, it is certainly hard to conclude that the harassment lead directly to her death and not other, more reasonable, recourse.
 
astyler said:
I agree with most of your posts, but at some point your actions go beyond "hurting someones feelings" and cross into the realm of harassment. While this word and accusation gets tossed around _far_ too much in schools and courts these days, there's no denying it exists and the psychological effects it has. While kids need to learn to stand up for themselves and function as a human being -- which means getting your feelings hurt and dealing with it in a reasonable way -- at some point the law or the parents need to step in and protect them.

Now, I agree that the bar that constitutes harassment should probably be raised and not relied on all the time; but the manipulative, calculated, and extensive lengths this woman went to should probably constitute harassment so she should be liable on some level. I'm not arguing Murder 1, it is certainly hard to conclude that the harassment lead directly to her death and not other, more reasonable, recourse.
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In reply to Dan-D
 
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