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ChingChang

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Mar 27, 2003
Messages
6,504
hi
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Network setup

This is my current setup. I have this motorola cable modem. I have a wireless b Linksys router (model BEFW11S4 ver4), and it has four ethernet ports. An old 600mhz iMac is connected to one port. My 8-port D-Link switch is connected to another port. My sister has an iMac connected wirelessly, and my brother has a PC connected with a linksys wireless adapter. I have my PC connected to the switch, and two other folding rigs connected to the switch also. All the PCs are using Windows XP (two home, two professional)

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The Problem

Here's the details of the problem:
This problem is VERY strange, and hard to reproduce. Sometimes I'll be on the internet for hours and everything is great. Then everyone on the network will just get disconnected, and I'll have to go downstairs and restart the router. Then 45 minutes later it will disconnect again, then I reset. This will happen several times. After awhile, I'll be able to stay online longer than 45 minutes (until it starts happening again).

I've noticed that sometimes I'll be online for like 8 hours (I can see the time in my IM client), then my brother will start using his computer (go to a website or talk to someone online), and everyone on the network will get disconnected and we'll need to restart the router. Then after 45 minutes we'll have to restart again...
This also sometimes happens if I am away from the computer for a few hours, then once I come back and start to do something on the internet everyone will get disconnected.

When me and my brother were away at college, it was just my sisters iMac, and the other Mac connected. My family said it would never disconnect at all. But the day I came home, it started disconnecting every day.

I know it is not a malware problem. At first I thought it might have been since my brother's computer isn't too secure, but the problem exists even when he was away at college. My computer is very secure. I have a very strong layered defense and have never had any problems with virus or spyware.

I've checked for firmware updates, but the one I have is the same as the one on Linksys website.


What's weird is that my friend is having the EXACT SAME PROBLEM. He uses a 4 port wired Linksys router. He had his router replaced by Linksys, but he's having the same problem still.

We were thinking it could be some sort of conflict with our ISP and certain Linksys routers (the routers we both have are similar, and our ISP is Optimum Online).

I guess it's also possible we are somehow overloading the routers. Not with network traffic, but the amount of connections. It's kind of hard to imagine though, since the network goes out even if we're not doing much. It could just be like an IM client open, web browser, and the only other things would be programs that connect automatically every once in awhile (folding, windows update, antivirus updates, ect). No one plays games, or does any majord downloading. The reason I was thinking this is because of how I'll be online for like 10 hours, then my brother wakes up and goes on his computer then everyone is instantly disconnected.

____________________________

Solution: new router?

What I would really appreciate from this forum is a good recommendation on a quality router. Price range is $50-100, but I am willing to spend over $100 if it is necessary. Like if there's a good router for $95 and a great router for $120, I'd probably get the great router. I think my friend would spend the same amount.

I don't want to take a chance with Linksys again. I was thinking maybe D-Link, but honestly I don't care as long as it isn't Linksys. I just want something that isn't going to piss me off every 45 minutes. I actually punched a hole in the wall one day when I got mad. I don't want to get mad anymore.

Also, my friend said he'd start folding if you guys can recommend a router that will solve our problem. He'd also borg and fold for team 33. So do it for the [H]orde!!! (and the cure!)



Love,
ChingChang



 
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That's a problem that's rather common with SOHO routers in general, particularly ones of Linksys and Netgear make that are a few years old. Replacing the router should solve your problem.

Here are some high performance SOHO wireless routers in your price range:

Best:
D-Link DGL-4300 -- $124.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16833127158

Netgear WPNT834 RangeMax 240 -- $129.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16833150023

LINKSYS WRT54GX4 -- $129.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16833124052

Better
BELKIN F5D8230-4 -- $83.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16833314014

NETGEAR WPN824 -- $99.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16833150015

Good
BELKIN F5D9230-4 -- $49.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16833314017

Hope that helps. :)
 
Thank you for those recommendations :) (although I did say I don't want a Linksys!)

Have you had any experience with any of these routers? Is there a reason why you are recommending them aside from their Newegg ratings, specs, and price?
 
A quick fix/check is to convert one of your folding rigs into a ipcop/smoothwall real quick, and see if the problems continue. That's basically free, and gives you a very powerful firewall machine. (You'll need two NICs for it though).
 
I don't think it would be a quick way to check since the problem is hard to reproduce, and I need wireless for my sister and brother. And I don't know how to do that ;)
 
I had the same problem when splitted the cable signal between router and tv, when using router without the splitter everything was ok :confused:

oldmx
 
OldMX said:
I had the same problem when splitted the cable signal between router and tv, when using router without the splitter everything was ok :confused:

oldmx
Click to expand...
Same problem? every 45 minutes?
I think we have a splitter somewhere, with one end going to the TV, and the other end going to the router but I'm not sure.
I don't think my friend is using a splitter but he might be...
 
Not every 45 minutes exactly, but more random, some times sooner and some times later but yes, it failed when the Y connector was splitting the signal.

oldmx
 
I have the 824 now and like it very much. If for some strange reason it died I'd probably spring for the 834. Orinthical knows better than I for sure, but a few more $.02 in case you want opinions. The 824 runs wireless up 2 floors to the wife's machine, and also connects at all points to the Intel 3945 wireless in the laptop.

:)



Netgear WPNT834 RangeMax 240 -- $129.99
NETGEAR WPN824 -- $99.99
 
I had the same problem with the same router. Switched it out for a D-Link and it stays up for much longer, however the signal isn't the best and it's wireless performance is lacking. I suggest getting something made by pretty much any brand other than Linksys or D-Link, like a Netgear or Belkin or something. I've had bad experiences with the newer Linksys routers, and while doing IT work for an elementary school I had to spend several hours in touch with their tech support to get everything working properly(two WRT54GS routers, one WAP54G access point and 2 wireless print servers). Of course I got paid more, but it's still a lot more than I'd be willing to put up with for a personal network. I know a few people who have had better experiences with their newer products(as always, YMMV), but I'd still reccomend to keep Linksys as a last resort and only buy their stuff if you find a great deal or don't have any other options.
 
I had the EXACT same problem with the EXACT same router. I dealt with it for a year before I decided to shell out $150 for a Motorola SurfBoard 5120 and LInksys WRT54g.

At this point, I think the only downtime my network has is when the power goes out.

Seriously, OP, don't let the performance of an old, outdated product skew your perception of the entire family of products.

Linksys FTW!
 
Spend the 60 dollars for a wrt54GS. It sounds like wireless or heat. In the mean-time set an active fan blowing across the router and see if the problem persists.
 
Make sure you SSID is not default...that it's unique. I see this problem so many times..people leave it default..and with a popular brand router..chances are good that a neighbor has the same one. Wireless clients naturally get confused as to which to connect to.

Try changing channels...in some locations, the default ch6 isn't necessarily the best due to many environmental variables..try ch 1 or 11. Changed on the web admin of the router..no changes needed on the clients, they'll roll with the flow.

Any P2P programs running? They overwhelm most home grade routers..especially older ones with little CPU and RAM. I know you said only a few users..but it only takes one launching of a torrent or kazaa or whatever...and that router can get pounded into the ground. Most newer routers with models current of this year, especially MIMO routers, have substantially more horsepower.

It's an old router series...they weren't too hot. Perhaps it's ready to be put out to pasture.

My vote would be for a Linksys wrt54gx series (gx/gx2/gx4), a Belkin Pre-N series f5d 8230-4, or one of the DLink 4000 series. I know you said you don't want Linksys again...but their SRX series is great, I work hands on with most brands all the time.
 
I was looking for a new wireless access point for a decent price when I ran across Level One on New Egg. I had a similar problem with a cheap router, dropping the signal, ahve to recycle power to it after intermittant periods of heavy use. All my problems went away after upgrading to this access point.

They aren't cheap, but they don't break the bank either. I've been through netgear, dlink and linksys equipment enough to know that it was time to look for something different. Right now I'm using this to share my connection with the neighbors, and there are no less than 5 wireless AP's around my place. Since upgrading to this Level One I have not had the problem of the clients trying to jump to the other networks like before, it hasn't gone down, and signal quality is good enough that even the crappy USB wifi adapter I loaned to the neighbor stays connected with a decent signal, where that same adapter wouldn't stay connected to my last AP at 25 feet with LOS to the AP.
 
ChingChang said:
Have you had any experience with any of these routers? Is there a reason why you are recommending them aside from their Newegg ratings, specs, and price?
Click to expand...

http://www.tomsnetworking.com/lans_routers/charts/index.html?chart=121

Aside from that, I have first hand experience with the DGL-4100 and 4300. They are very fast and very stable. In the nearly a year I've had it, the only time it's been down is when I've taken it down. The 4300 offers basic wireless support - while the Netgear WPNT834 offers MIMO support for better wireless.

The others are a compilation of those recommended by YeOldeStoneCat and others on here as being very stable and eager performers in their experience.
 
had the same problems with 2 different linksys models bought a dlink dlg4100 no problems since.....
good luck
 
i had a lot of experience with the netgear routers, and any new router should fix your problem, but i would recommand the netgear, maybe even the new RangeMax Models
This One
 
YeOldeStonecat said:
Any P2P programs running? They overwhelm most home grade routers..especially older ones with little CPU and RAM. I know you said only a few users..but it only takes one launching of a torrent or kazaa or whatever...and that router can get pounded into the ground. Most newer routers with models current of this year, especially MIMO routers, have substantially more horsepower.
Click to expand...
No p2p on my network and it still drops connection. As I said before I only have basic programs using the network... internet browser, IM client, automatic updates for some applications, and spyware my brother has collected :p
I know I have an old linksys router, and their newer routers would probably work great, but I just want to try something new.


I think I might try out the DGL-4300. But what about the DIR-635? That one any good? I don't really care about Pre-N, I just want something reliable. We only have wireless B on this network anyway, probably won't even upgrade to G. I'll just be using wired for myself, I don't even use wireless.

thanks for suggestions everyone.
 
ChingChang said:
I think I might try out the DGL-4300. But what about the DIR-635? That one any good? I don't really care about Pre-N, I just want something reliable. We only have wireless B on this network anyway, probably won't even upgrade to G. I'll just be using wired for myself, I don't even use wireless.
Click to expand...
I have not used the DIR-635 myself and have never seen it recommended on here so I can't speak for it's reliability nor performance. The DIR-635 does not have an integrated gigabit switch (the ports are 10/100) but is both DraftN and MIMO capable whereas the DGL-4300 is basic 108G and does not feature support for MIMO.

If I were to base my decision solely on those findings, I would go with the DIR-635. The somewhat limited reviews of the product thus far seem to point to it being very reliable; couple that with the improved features, the DIR-635 may be a better choice. I always recommend you run clients off of a dedicated switch versus the integrated one anyhow so the gigabit ports on the DGL-4300 may not be that big of a deal. :)

Edit: Or have your cake and eat it too... (DraftN, MIMO and Gigabit LAN ports.)

NETGEAR WNR854T, RangeMax NEXT Gigabit Edition: -- $149.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16833122100
 
I suggest you don't bother with anything Pre-N, since it will likely not be compatible with the final standard and you'll be left with an expensive paperweight if you end up upgrading to a final 802.11n network once it's finalised.
 
Solution: IPCop.

Connect Cable modem to IPcop, then second NIC in ipcop box goes to a switch (you may or may not have already). Connect the current wireless/4port router to the switch and use it as an AP.

What is odd is that there is no p2p going on, but some other application is causing it to trip up on some certain traffic. I would give the IPCop route a try and see if anything happens for a week.
 
I think I'm just going to get the DGL-4300. Wireless isn't too important to me. I don't need MIMO or pre-N. My friend doesn't use wireless either.

I'll try IPCop if the new router doesn't solve the problem for some reason. I'd rather not use that as a permanent solution though. It will just complicate things.. I'd have to move one of my folding rigs downstairs next to the modem, and I think my parents would like to keep the router downstairs anyway (my switch is upstairs and I'm using that for my folding rigs and my computer, so I'd have to use two cables going upstairs instead of one to keep the router downstairs). And I'm not sure where I'd even put the IPCop computer. I don't even have a case for it anyway. No room to run it "naked" either.
 
Just got the router today. It's all set up.. I really like the administration interface, much better than the old linksys one.

It's been connected for 43 minutes... hopefully it stays connected!

Sexy router btw. It looks great. I like this new design better than DLinks Grey/Silver one. Blue lights too, with glass panel covering them.
 
You are having the weird disconnects from either over heating components (Not the entire unit), shorts or dirty power from the powerline coming into your house. This happens when you either get a cheap router or a router that didn't undergo enough quality control.
 
I have a DGL-4300 and love it. Replaced a LinkSys BEFSR81 which dropped all connections a couple of times a day. As someone said, very common with the older Linksys products.

thePP
 
No disconnects at all since setting this up. I really like the setup (I know I said this already), lots more options than the old linksys.
Looks like the connection is stable! (pm me if you actually want a dollar. Orinthical gets 5 :p)

I also brought the router to my friends house tonight, and his problems don't exist on this router. He said he was also having connection problems with WC3 and another RTS game.. something like he'd disconnect after every game he created or something. Didn't happen tonight at all. So he ordered it, hopefully he'll be folding now. :)


Raystream said:
You are having the weird disconnects from either over heating components (Not the entire unit), shorts or dirty power from the powerline coming into your house. This happens when you either get a cheap router or a router that didn't undergo enough quality control.
Click to expand...
You sure? I'm not saying you're wrong, but my router did not feel too warm, and my friends router didn't even feel warm. Of course there could have been a small component inside that is not producing enough heat for me to feel it from the outside though...


thanks again everyone.
 
I didn't see this until now, but it is/was (obviously) the router. I've seen this TONS of times. (My workplace does support for a cable internet company.)

I myself have been through, oh 5-6 routers. Multiple Linksys wired 4port ones, a few DLINK wired and wireless ones. The current 8port linksys router seems to be holding up fine however.

Glad you got the problem resolved!
 
I had problems like yours with my old Linksys router, but then went to the D-Link DGL-4300 - best router I ever owned, period. Never a disconnect again.
 
ChingChang said:
No disconnects at all since setting this up. I really like the setup (I know I said this already), lots more options than the old linksys.
Looks like the connection is stable! (pm me if you actually want a dollar. Orinthical gets 5 :p)

I also brought the router to my friends house tonight, and his problems don't exist on this router. He said he was also having connection problems with WC3 and another RTS game.. something like he'd disconnect after every game he created or something. Didn't happen tonight at all. So he ordered it, hopefully he'll be folding now. :)



You sure? I'm not saying you're wrong, but my router did not feel too warm, and my friends router didn't even feel warm. Of course there could have been a small component inside that is not producing enough heat for me to feel it from the outside though...


thanks again everyone.
Click to expand...
Very sure... your not going to feel the heat from something like that. A lot of people expect to feel heat, but unless there is a fire or the entire circuit board is overheating (Along with the components) your not going to feel it. To be honest it is very prevalent with Routers that are quite honestly dirt cheap. (Linksys, D-Link, Some Netgear and a couple of other brands.)

Just to make sure I would hook up a battery backup unit to your router. An no, a power strip will not be enough. Especially if you power lines are bringing in a little bit more dirty power then usual.
 
Zero82z said:
I suggest you don't bother with anything Pre-N, since it will likely not be compatible with the final standard and you'll be left with an expensive paperweight if you end up upgrading to a final 802.11n network once it's finalised.
Click to expand...

QFT
since the draft N stuff is fucking over b and g gear there pretty much re-doing the whole thing

imo
WRT54GL and flash with wrt-dd
 
Elios said:
QFT
since the draft N stuff is fucking over b and g gear there pretty much re-doing the whole thing

imo
WRT54GL and flash with wrt-dd
Click to expand...

Okay, we really need to stop reviving old threads just to add these quips. :) There was -one- chipset early on the in the pre-N/draft-N product line which caused problems with neighboring b/g products on channel six and channel six only. No need to black list the whole lot and, contrary to popular belief, there -is- a point to buying draft-n/pre-n routers - because they are backwards compatible with b and g and usually have faster processors in them. Is there a point in jumping whole-heartedly on the pre-n or draft-n bandwagon and outfitting an entire office with that standard? Not really... because the technology is not finalized yet. So ymmv.

And the WRT54GL is the same thing as the WRT54G v4... it is old and outdated, even with DD-WRT. I have one as my AP... and it's good there. But I would -not- use it as my main router, especially considering there are models with much higher performance available for just a little more.
 
I wouldn't call making a post 35 minutes after the previous one "reviving a thread".
 
Zero82z said:
I wouldn't call making a post 35 minutes after the previous one "reviving a thread".
Click to expand...

Perhaps not, though it is finished. :) My statement was meant to be taken generally, as reviving six page old posts only to post similar things has become a somewhat common occurance.
 
Raystream said:
To be honest it is very prevalent with Routers that are quite honestly dirt cheap. (Linksys, D-Link, Some Netgear and a couple of other brands.)
Click to expand...

I wouldn't say this is always true. We use a Watchguard Firebox X15w, which is by no means cheap (still not as much as higher-end enterprise hardware) and this router gets very hot to touch. I have had to isolate it from other equipment in our sys rack due to its heat output.
 
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