ZOTAC GeForce 9300-ITX WiFi

Blue Fox said:
Poor NAS solution with only 2 SATA ports. Would make a pretty decent HTPC though.
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"#$%! The perfect mini-ITX board, and I just discovered a flaw... Damn...

cnick79 said:
How would this mobo be for a HTPC or a NAS? It might be a little overkill for a nice but it should make for a pretty good HTPC no?
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For an HTPC it's just fine by itself. The 9x00 mGPU is probably the best HTPC chipset at the moment. And, if you don't like it, you can still upgrade later, since it has a full speed PCIe 2.0 16x slot (unlike the only other option on the market, a 780G-based board that's about twice as expensive as this one). The e-SATA port is nice, too.

For a NAS you might want to check other options, with more SATA ports. My recomendations are the DG45FC/DQ45EK (same thing, only PCB colour and chipset change, basically) from Intel, and the 8200-ITX from Zotac (for an AMD solution). These are probably the cheapest ones, then you also have Jetway and such, but AFAIK those tend to be much more expensive...

OniExpress said:
This seems to be good, assuming that pages 19 and 21 are accurate that is.
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Yes, that's probably better. VIA created the mini-ITX standard, after all... :p

However, you should be just fine if you take the "uATX with 17x17cm dimention" approach. I have a D945GCLF, and it fit perfectly on a standard ATX case with no problems whatsoever. And yes, before you ask, that case does seem empty when you look at it... hehehe

OniExpress said:
As for the ram, it lists compatibility up to 8gb on two slots, so I would assume so.
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Oh, right. Now I saw it. Sweeet!

Cheers.

Miguel
 
__Miguel_ said:
For a NAS you might want to check other options, with more SATA ports. My recomendations are the DG45FC/DQ45EK (same thing, only PCB colour and chipset change, basically) from Intel, and the 8200-ITX from Zotac (for an AMD solution). These are probably the cheapest ones, then you also have Jetway and such, but AFAIK those tend to be much more expensive...
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Why would you suggest those over something like a D945GCLF2? While it only has two SATA ports for the same price as one of the boards you mentioned you can get a D945GCLF2 plus a PCI SATA port card.... okay, for a little bit more then one of those boards. :)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121359
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815121009
 
CrimandEvil said:
Why would you suggest those over something like a D945GCLF2? While it only has two SATA ports for the same price as one of the boards you mentioned you can get a D945GCLF2 plus a PCI SATA port card.... okay, for a little bit more then one of those boards. :)
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1) SATA over PCI is yucky. You're limited to less than half the bandwidth available for ONE port, and if you tax two HDDs at the same time on the bus, you'll be in trouble (either CPU, bandwidth-wise, of both);

2) The KISS approach. Less stuff put in the motherboard, less stuff to worry about breaking up.

3) RAID. All three of those boards can natively build RAID volumes. That is not the greatest reason, since southbridge RAID is still software-based (and WHS doesn't even need RAID), but still, one less layer of complications. Have you ever tried RAIDing through Windows (or Linux, for that matter)? How much easier is it to have a semi-friendly GUI at POST?

4) Power consumption. Atom-based boards don't go below 35~45W idling. Which is good, but I have seen tests of similar-built E7x00-based systems idling in the low 30s, and load values are not that far away from 45W... And the current lowest power build I've EVER seen is around 25W idling (AMD-based, btw, and that's an X2, not a single-core CPU). There is NO way an Atom board will be able to go that low. Not even Ion, unless some serious undervolting options become available.

5) Power efficiency. There is a HUGE boost in speed for not that higher power consumptions when you go to just about any other current out-of-order CPU, including the 400 series Celerons. Again, the E7x00 series basically slaughters the Atom in this field.

6) Have you ever used an Atom? I have a D945GCLF board. Windows XP (on a diet), regular 160GB IDE drive (bought it new with the board, btw), 2GB of RAM. Vista is out of the question, of course. It moves just fine if you stick to a couple of windows open at a time. When you try any serious multitasking, you spend increasing amounts of time waiting for the computer.

The D945GCLF2 is not that much better, from what I've read. XP doesn't handle virtual cores very well to begin with, and even with four cores, you get only marginal speed gains on most real world usage scenarios. That's because Atom is inherently slow, and doing several things at once is still hard when each of the cores is just plain slow, and still doesn't execute out-of-order...

I do think Atom is a great little CPU. Really, it is. But Intel said if from the beginning: that's NOT something most of us would have for a first PC CPU. Seriously, multi-tasking with an Atom (and yes, a NAS worthy of its name WILL multitask for a significant amount of time, including, but not limited to, handling several data streams at the same time).

But hey, that's just me. I might be wrong.

Cheers.

Miguel
 
__Miguel_ said:
The D945GCLF2 is not that much better, from what I've read. XP doesn't handle virtual cores very well to begin with, and even with four cores, you get only marginal speed gains on most real world usage scenarios. That's because Atom is inherently slow, and doing several things at once is still hard when each of the cores is just plain slow, and still doesn't execute out-of-order...

I do think Atom is a great little CPU. Really, it is. But Intel said if from the beginning: that's NOT something most of us would have for a first PC CPU. Seriously, multi-tasking with an Atom (and yes, a NAS worthy of its name WILL multitask for a significant amount of time, including, but not limited to, handling several data streams at the same time).

But hey, that's just me. I might be wrong.
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Dude. Throw Linux on there and it's a decent little platform, throw WHS on there and it's okay and we are talking about a NAS here, it's not like it's going to be doing a ton of things on it or any sort of heavy multitasking. Lets be realistic here.
 
__Miguel_ said:
1) SATA over PCI is yucky. You're limited to less than half the bandwidth available for ONE port, and if you tax two HDDs at the same time on the bus, you'll be in trouble (either CPU, bandwidth-wise, of both);
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Even if it is PCI-E 2.0? Why not grab a PCI-E Sata RAID controller and call it a day?
 
__Miguel_ said:
"#$%! The perfect mini-ITX board, and I just discovered a flaw... Damn...
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You just discovered it? That's what I was originally referring to when I said only two SATA ports. :p

I second the suggestion for the Zotac 8200 (or J&W 780G) board as a NAS solution. The 8200 is better if you want to use the chipset-level RAID5, but I prefer the 780G for general purpose everything else.

I'm still deliberating whether to rebuild my HTPC using the 9300; it'll be much more powerful than my current X2/780G, but there's one thing that's really scaring me:
2x HD RAID1 = No more SATA
Slim DVD drive = slim SATA
Slim SATA converted to SATA, check
USB-to-SATA converter, check
USB-to-internal-header, check

It'll work to create an "internal" USB SATA DVD drive, but it'll be ugly (and cramped) with all those adapters. The 780G doesn't need any of it, apart from the SATA-SLIM converter.
 
cnick79 said:
Even if it is PCI-E 2.0? Why not grab a PCI-E Sata RAID controller and call it a day?
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The SATA controller would be a blast, yes. Especially if you're talking at least a RAIDCore 8-port one... Hehehe
Blue Fox said:
PCI and PCIe are not the same. The Intel Atom boards only have PCI.
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Yes, exactly. I said that because someone asked me why I didn't recomend an Atom board, which doesn't support PCIe, only PCI. PCI is limited to around 125MBps throughput, PCIe 2.0 is 250MBps per direction per lane, which is 4 times the maximum bandwidth you can squeeze out of PCI IF you only have one single PCI device in the system.

CrimandEvil said:
Dude. Throw Linux on there and it's a decent little platform, throw WHS on there and it's okay and we are talking about a NAS here, it's not like it's going to be doing a ton of things on it or any sort of heavy multitasking. Lets be realistic here.
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Well, you're probably right about Linux. I tend to forget that OS, since I'm a Windows power user, and Linux is both hard and troublesome for me (very bad personal experiences).

WHS, on the other hand, is based off W2K3, which means same shortcomings as XP, with the added stress of the new storage layer to manage, and the ever-increasing amount of add-ons you have. Atom-based NASes are usually limited to around 50MBps max throughput. C2D-based ones can shift that value to 70MBps (and up to 100MBps if you're using a Vista-based OS instead, but no WHS qualities then).

mavalpha said:
You just discovered it? That's what I was originally referring to when I said only two SATA ports. :p
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Yeah, all this time I was thinking this one was just like the 8200-ITX, since the first time I read about it was on a forum thread about the 8200... I got them mixed up without even noticing. :(

mavalpha said:
I second the suggestion for the Zotac 8200 (or J&W 780G) board as a NAS solution. The 8200 is better if you want to use the chipset-level RAID5, but I prefer the 780G for general purpose everything else.
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The J&W seems to be a little over-priced. I mean, you can get just about every single one of its features on something cheaper. Though it's still the only AMD-based mini-ITX board with a 16x PCIe slot, albeit only 8x electrically.

mavalpha said:
I'm still deliberating whether to rebuild my HTPC using the 9300; it'll be much more powerful than my current X2/780G, but there's one thing that's really scaring me:
2x HD RAID1 = No more SATA
Slim DVD drive = slim SATA
Slim SATA converted to SATA, check
USB-to-SATA converter, check
USB-to-internal-header, check

It'll work to create an "internal" USB SATA DVD drive, but it'll be ugly (and cramped) with all those adapters. The 780G doesn't need any of it, apart from the SATA-SLIM converter.
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Hmm, that seems a lot of work for something that won't net you that much more. I'd probably stay put, and revisit that in 6 months or so.

Cheers.

Miguel
 
I would have thought a 8x PCI express NAS board in that mobo would make quite a potent NAS setup.
 
Meaker said:
I would have thought a 8x PCI express NAS board in that mobo would make quite a potent NAS setup.
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Yes, that too. But I think everyone was assuming you were talking about a "single PCB" approach to a NAS, meaning only 4-port+ motherboards would be really interesting.

But in that case, either the 9300-ITX or the J&W 780G seem very good options, since bandwidth will not be limited.

Cheers.

Miguel
 
Anyone know the exact date of when this mobo comes out, and should I buy a new cpu for it since you most likely wont be able to oc on the board?
 
a) I thought I saw a post earlier that said 2/18- tomorrow, for most of us. :)
b) Don't bet on not OC'ing. Their 8200 board had some good voltage options, allowing undervolting all the way down to 0.55V or so (compared to 0.8V in everyone else's designs).
 
The board will take 2x 4GB DIMMs for 8GB total. (However, I'm only planning on using 2x2, since this will also be my MCE and I've had better luck with just 32-bit codecs.)

You're planning on using the e6300 in your sig? I'd say it might be time to upgrade if you're planning on gaming. It'll be fine for a Media Center.
 
Ya imma go with 2x2gb and ya I wont to game and this e6300 is getting old, should I bite on the e5200 for 65 shipped? Or something faster?
 
I don't think you'll see enough of a difference to justify the cost, but that's just me. Consider getting an e7x00 instead- it'll be a nice upgrade in games, but it'll be a HUGE upgrade for encoding thanks to the additional SSE4 instruction set.
 
lillimon04 said:
Anyone know the exact date of when this mobo comes out, and should I buy a new cpu for it since you most likely wont be able to oc on the board?
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The inclusion of a x16 slot, as well as some other models of theirs, leads me to believe that overclocking is something that the designers took into consideration.
 
I hope someone gets this tomorrow and puts a review with overclocking and with different CPUs. This mono has me all excited like the f I90hd did but I hope it doesn't let me down like thAt one.
 
If anyone has this in hand tomorrow then they had damn well better tell me where they got it. >_> I've yet to find a distributor that will say "yes, we have this on order for release".
 
What are you building with this board Crim? Intrigued after your posts @ HTPC.
 
lillimon04 said:
Ya imma go with 2x2gb and ya I wont to game and this e6300 is getting old, should I bite on the e5200 for 65 shipped? Or something faster?
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mavalpha said:
I don't think you'll see enough of a difference to justify the cost, but that's just me. Consider getting an e7x00 instead- it'll be a nice upgrade in games, but it'll be a HUGE upgrade for encoding thanks to the additional SSE4 instruction set.
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Since he doesn't game, the E5200 might do the trick. Going from an E6300 to an E5200 might not net him that much of a speed boost (~633MHz more, which is not too shaby, though with a lower FSB), but power requirements will drop like a stone, especially if that E6300 is a 1st-gen one (22W idle TDP, vs. 12W for the L2 stepping, vs. around 4W for the E5200...). And 45nm parts are about 10% faster clock for clock than 65nm ones, so it should be a win-win situation.

But still, the E7x00 is generally better, and can at least be considered a little more "future proof".

OniExpress said:
The inclusion of a x16 slot, as well as some other models of theirs, leads me to believe that overclocking is something that the designers took into consideration.
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Let's hope so.

From what I've read from other 9x00-based motherboards, this is not a very OC-friendly chipset, most of the time stopping dead on its tracks at around 400MHz FSB, which nowadays is nothing short of... short... lol But it's an IGP-based chipset, and even the G45 isn't that much better (best one until now apparently being the G35).

Cheers.

Miguel
 
__Miguel_ said:
Let's hope so.

From what I've read from other 9x00-based motherboards, this is not a very OC-friendly chipset, most of the time stopping dead on its tracks at around 400MHz FSB, which nowadays is nothing short of... short... lol But it's an IGP-based chipset, and even the G45 isn't that much better (best one until now apparently being the G35).

Cheers.

Miguel
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It has a pretty speedy fsb. It's not the fastest, but then again it's no i7 so let's not compare apples to oranges. Even without possible overclocking, this mobo can be a top-tier system; SLI can be considered "over-rated", 8 gigs of ram is sufficient for most uses, and a sole pcie 16 slot is really a critical hurdle for broad-range computer.

I've got my eyes peeled today. >_>
 
__Miguel_ said:
Since he doesn't game, the E5200 might do the trick. Going from an E6300 to an E5200 might not net him that much of a speed boost (~633MHz more, which is not too shaby, though with a lower FSB), but power requirements will drop like a stone, especially if that E6300 is a 1st-gen one (22W idle TDP, vs. 12W for the L2 stepping, vs. around 4W for the E5200...). And 45nm parts are about 10% faster clock for clock than 65nm ones, so it should be a win-win situation.

But still, the E7x00 is generally better, and can at least be considered a little more "future proof".

Cheers.

Miguel
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Opps, sorry I was typing on the itouch, I meant I want to game on this. Have a custom case, or maybe pick up a sugo 5. This would be an awesome mini gaming pc. Which is what I have been wanting. Shouldnt have bought the elite or I would have enough for a cpu too. :( This mobo looks awesome!!
 
OniExpress said:
It has a pretty speedy fsb. It's not the fastest, but then again it's no i7 so let's not compare apples to oranges. Even without possible overclocking, this mobo can be a top-tier system; SLI can be considered "over-rated", 8 gigs of ram is sufficient for most uses, and a sole pcie 16 slot is really a critical hurdle for broad-range computer.
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I'd like for it to hit 400MHz with no problems, so potential buyers can at least squeeze some good OCs from the 8000 and 9000 series. Else we're stuck with less performant parts to OC... But yes, around 400MHz should be just fine for most users. After all, heat can become a problem when you go this small...

lillimon04 said:
Opps, sorry I was typing on the itouch, I meant I want to game on this.
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Then forget everything I said. :p

Cheers.

Miguel
 
I just downloaded the manual from their site, and it's a manual for the 9400-ITX as well. I wonder when that's coming out
 
I wonder what the differences are with the 9400... Can't be a socket 1366, so I would assume it's a faster fsb and maybe faster ram?
 
OniExpress said:
I wonder what the differences are with the 9400... Can't be a socket 1366, so I would assume it's a faster fsb and maybe faster ram?
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the 9300 and 9400 chipsets are nvidia integrated graphics chips, I'm assuming the board will stay the same just with the better chipset
 
They're actually the same chipset, just the shaders in the 9400 are clocked higher.
 
Ah. Well, I would consider that a more important factor if not for the x16 slot. With it... it is nifty, but overall not much of a concern.
 
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