390X coming soon few weeks

Any reason to trust a random chiphell user?
I can pull numbers out of my ass, too.

I've said it before, Hawaii refresh @ $399 is a disaster. Hawaii @ $299 is ALREADY a disaster, why increase the price 33%?
 
TaintedSquirrel said:
Any reason to trust a random chiphell user?
I can pull numbers out of my ass, too.

I've said it before, Hawaii refresh @ $399 is a disaster. Hawaii @ $299 is ALREADY a disaster, why increase the price 33%?
Click to expand...

I agree, everyone and their brother is pulling numbers and estimates out of their hind regions these days.

However, I have to disagree on the $399 Hawaii refresh unless it is a direct rebadge. If they respin it at GF and bring it up to GCN 1.2 (hard to call it Hawaii then IMO) that could bring it's performance up to 980 levels which currently sells for $500-550. All it really needs is another 10-15% performance for stock vs stock comparison. Only enthusiasts will look at overclock vs overclock and that could go either way depending on cooling (we all pray its AIB solutions not AMD's blowers....) and the effects of the new fab process. If we get a refreshed card that competes favorably with the 980 at $100 less and double the memory I think that is a win-win for consumers.
 
SoulCreatr said:
I agree, everyone and their brother is pulling numbers and estimates out of their hind regions these days.

However, I have to disagree on the $399 Hawaii refresh unless it is a direct rebadge. If they respin it at GF and bring it up to GCN 1.2 (hard to call it Hawaii then IMO) that could bring it's performance up to 980 levels which currently sells for $500-550. All it really needs is another 10-15% performance for stock vs stock comparison. Only enthusiasts will look at overclock vs overclock and that could go either way depending on cooling (we all pray its AIB solutions not AMD's blowers....) and the effects of the new fab process. If we get a refreshed card that competes favorably with the 980 at $100 less and double the memory I think that is a win-win for consumers.
Click to expand...
The 980 is being cut to $499 this week.
The new Hawaii will get annihilated by the 980 the same way old Hawaii is being annihilated by the 970. They just move everything up a tier.

The 780 already annihilated the 290 in a simular situation last year. AMD just keeps repeating the same mistakes. All hope lies with Fiji and (eventually) 16nm.
 
TaintedSquirrel said:
The 980 is being cut to $499 this week.
The new Hawaii will get annihilated by the 980 the same way old Hawaii is being annihilated by the 970. They just move everything up a tier.

The 780 already annihilated the 290 in a simular situation last year. AMD just keeps repeating the same mistakes. All hope lies with Fiji and (eventually) 16nm.
Click to expand...

You do not know a GF respun Hawaii with GCN 1.2 would get annihilated. Nobody knows that although lots of sketchy "benchmarks" around I am sure. Now, if they just bump clocks and rebadge it then sure it would not be a competitive product against the 980.

Also AMD should capitalize on the recent Kepler problems and market the hell out of how they support their products longer and they continue to improve. Such as the 780 being beaten by the 290 these days. I see the same thing in the cell phone industry where the old models are cast aside when the new ones come out (case in point: Samsung), but Apple and HTC continue to support older devices. This matters to some people, ask those Kepler owners how their performance has been stagnant since about the release of Maxwell.
 
SoulCreatr said:
You do not know a GF respun Hawaii with GCN 1.2 would get annihilated. Nobody knows that although lots of sketchy "benchmarks" around I am sure. Now, if they just bump clocks and rebadge it then sure it would not be a competitive product against the 980.

Also AMD should capitalize on the recent Kepler problems and market the hell out of how they support their products longer and they continue to improve. Such as the 780 being beaten by the 290 these days. I see the same thing in the cell phone industry where the old models are cast aside when the new ones come out (case in point: Samsung), but Apple and HTC continue to support older devices. This matters to some people, ask those Kepler owners how their performance has been stagnant since about the release of Maxwell.
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I'm guessing the boosted clocks are a result of the new fab.
So at best, I expect the 390X to match the 980 in performance while also consuming 280-300W just like the 290X. GCN 1.2 and 8 GB as a bonus.

At $399, that card competes equally with the $499 980 as the 290X vs 970 today. I don't see it being any more of a success than the 290X. If anything, more of a failure, if someone is willing to spend $400 on a GPU they're also more willing to pay the Nvidia tax.

So I can pre-emptively call the best case scenario a failure. Hawaii has had a consistent 2 years of failure, minus the crpyto-craze.
 
Fiji vr sounds interesting. Basically 295X2 replacement from what I'm guessing. I just hope I don't need more than 1000W PSU to run it. Ideally no more than 750W but I'm guessing that is farfetched with AMD cards.
 
Safe to assume these cards will consume the same amount of power (or less) than Hawaii. Ideally Fiji will match perf-per-watt of gm200.
I can't see AMD going any higher on TDP but I've been SO WRONG about that stuff in the past. I was convinced the 295 X2 wasn't even possible. AMD finds new and exciting ways to push the thermal envelope every generation.
 
lee0539 said:
Fiji vr sounds interesting. Basically 295X2 replacement from what I'm guessing. I just hope I don't need more than 1000W PSU to run it. Ideally no more than 750W but I'm guessing that is farfetched with AMD cards.
Click to expand...

Yeah there's no way even a dual GPU card will eat 750W at stock, let alone a single GPU card, so you're safe.

If Fiji XT is faster than Titan X while maintaining the same 280-300W power envelope, then perf/watt is actually pretty close to Maxwell, and a huge improvement in efficiency.
 
n=1 said:
Yeah there's no way even a dual GPU card will eat 750W at stock, let alone a single GPU card, so you're safe.

If Fiji XT is faster than Titan X while maintaining the same 280-300W power envelope, then perf/watt is actually pretty close to Maxwell, and a huge improvement in efficiency.
Click to expand...

Well the 295X2 uses 675W total load which is uncomfortably close to 750W especially after overclocking CPU/GPU. Unless the fiji vr uses less power.
 
lee0539 said:
Well the 295X2 uses 675W total load which is uncomfortably close to 750W especially after overclocking CPU/GPU. Unless the fiji vr uses less power.
Click to expand...
Since when is 75W considered uncomfortably close. A factory overclocked 980 uses about 75W less than a 290x... That is uncomfortably close to the same TDP, lol :p
 
SoulCreatr said:
You do not know a GF respun Hawaii with GCN 1.2 would get annihilated. Nobody knows that although lots of sketchy "benchmarks" around I am sure. Now, if they just bump clocks and rebadge it then sure it would not be a competitive product against the 980.
Click to expand...

If we are talking about not taking rumors for granted there's also hardly any evidence to suggest that Hawaii was respun to GF outside of wishfull thinking.

Especially when logic tells us it's very unlikely. Every process has it's own characteristics so this isn't exactly easy switch which means it is expensive and Amd has been cutting it's R&D while at the same time working on Zen for next year and switch to 14nm on GPUs.

Then when moving to diffrent process it's smart to start from smaller device - not only it's much less risky due to yields but small gpus form majority of notebook market where AMD doesn't exist and power efficiency is everything. So if this was ready would amd happily give market share to nvidia ? Also latest flagship Macbook Pro is shipping with GCN 1.0 card.

Third Hawaii is gcn 1.1 so it support all AMD technologies like freesync or trueaudio so that's one less reason to update it.

And last but not least why invest milions in production process that will be obsolete soon with everyone finally moving to 14/16nm in 2016 ?

So what's more likely for company with limited resorces?

Complete respun of big gpu die in GF that haven't made anything bigger than apu or slight adjustments of clock speeds due to better binning of mature die with 8GB of ram slapped for good marketing effect?
 
lee0539 said:
Well the 295X2 uses 675W total load which is uncomfortably close to 750W especially after overclocking CPU/GPU. Unless the fiji vr uses less power.
Click to expand...

675W total load as in total system load? Because 295X2 itself should draw quite a bit less than that especially at stock (anywhere from 470-507W).

In fact Tom's even managed to run two 295X2's on a single 1000W PSU without it tripping over a 1 hour gaming loop. So yeah I'd say your fears are unfounded.
 
lee0539 said:
Well the 295X2 uses 675W total load which is uncomfortably close to 750W especially after overclocking CPU/GPU. Unless the fiji vr uses less power.
Click to expand...

Only if your aren't limiting frames like say to 60/120/144 fps. Most of those reviews show a max you wont likely hit more than 5% of the time if ever.
 
Michaelius said:
If we are talking about not taking rumors for granted there's also hardly any evidence to suggest that Hawaii was respun to GF outside of wishfull thinking.

Especially when logic tells us it's very unlikely. Every process has it's own characteristics so this isn't exactly easy switch which means it is expensive and Amd has been cutting it's R&D while at the same time working on Zen for next year and switch to 14nm on GPUs.

Then when moving to diffrent process it's smart to start from smaller device - not only it's much less risky due to yields but small gpus form majority of notebook market where AMD doesn't exist and power efficiency is everything. So if this was ready would amd happily give market share to nvidia ? Also latest flagship Macbook Pro is shipping with GCN 1.0 card.

Third Hawaii is gcn 1.1 so it support all AMD technologies like freesync or trueaudio so that's one less reason to update it.

And last but not least why invest milions in production process that will be obsolete soon with everyone finally moving to 14/16nm in 2016 ?

So what's more likely for company with limited resorces?

Complete respun of big gpu die in GF that haven't made anything bigger than apu or slight adjustments of clock speeds due to better binning of mature die with 8GB of ram slapped for good marketing effect?
Click to expand...
Your argument has no less merit. We have to wait and see. Remember the 512bit bus on the 290? Nobody saw it coming and I mean nobody. NVIDIA didn't see the aio on the 295x2 and got caught with their pants down. AMD knows how to surprise.
 
More confirmations @ $650 for the 980 Ti.
Looks like Nvidia is trying to make the Ti become Fiji's "GTX 970".

I'm starting to get more confident in a $550-$600 Fiji card to compete with the 980 Ti. HBM for increased performance at 1440p+.
Not sure what to expect from the flagship if it's really $800+.

980 Ti confirmed DX12 TIER 1.
 
filip said:
We can only hope they have a monster under that water cooler ;)
Click to expand...

for me its rather simple, if Fiji is at least 15% faster that titan x i will buy it , if not i will order a 980ti

After the whole 970 fiasco i would love to buy an AMD if thy make a competitive flagship that is
 
TaintedSquirrel said:
There's absolutely zero chance it's 15% faster.
Order your 980 Ti.
Click to expand...

Come on don't become the rumor maker :p
We will see what the AMD cards have to offer when they come out and anyone buying before that has money burning a hole in their pocket. :D
 
Well, you have to say the reaction from Nvidia is very surprising. A $649 card that performs exactly like the Titanx and to release it before AMD's cards?

They must have some reason for this strange move. Most people thought they would wait until after the release of the new cards from AMD and then drop the price of the 980 and price the 980ti according to Fiji prices.

If Nvidia weren't so completely dominant in the graphic card market I would say they were panicking and released the 980ti to sell as much cards as they can because they know just how good the Fiji cards are.

Of course this could all be rubbish and Nvidia released the cards now because they found out Fiji is crap and realise that AMD can't hurt them in anyway.

It's just curious why they made it so cheap and powerful if this was the case.
 
LordEC911 said:
No chance at all? Not even at 4k?
Everyone is still claiming a near top-bottom rebrand, other than Fiji, which makes me believe AMD still has a few tricks up their sleeve.
Click to expand...

If AMD adds 285 improvements to the Hawaii core then it's a completely new beast. :)
 
reaper12 said:
Well, you have to say the reaction from Nvidia is very surprising. A $649 card that performs exactly like the Titanx and to release it before AMD's cards?

They must have some reason for this strange move. Most people thought they would wait until after the release of the new cards from AMD and then drop the price of the 980 and price the 980ti according to Fiji prices.

If Nvidia weren't so completely dominant in the graphic card market I would say they were panicking and released the 980ti to sell as much cards as they can because they know just how good the Fiji cards are.

Of course this could all be rubbish and Nvidia released the cards now because they found out Fiji is crap and realise that AMD can't hurt them in anyway.

It's just curious why they made it so cheap and powerful if this was the case.
Click to expand...

My thoughts are the opposite actually. Precisely because of nVidia's dominant position, it makes absolutely no sense for them to charge $649 when the card would sell equally well at $699. Why lower your margins when you don't have to? Clearly something is up, either Fiji XT is the bomb or a dud, and in each case the price makes sense.
 
reaper12 said:
Well, you have to say the reaction from Nvidia is very surprising. A $649 card that performs exactly like the Titanx and to release it before AMD's cards?

They must have some reason for this strange move. Most people thought they would wait until after the release of the new cards from AMD and then drop the price of the 980 and price the 980ti according to Fiji prices.

If Nvidia weren't so completely dominant in the graphic card market I would say they were panicking and released the 980ti to sell as much cards as they can because they know just how good the Fiji cards are.

Of course this could all be rubbish and Nvidia released the cards now because they found out Fiji is crap and realise that AMD can't hurt them in anyway.

It's just curious why they made it so cheap and powerful if this was the case.
Click to expand...

Either AMD cards are damn special with regards to DX12 performance or the new AMD card just destroys the current Nvidia lineup. Nvidia isn't dumb. They know the jig is up so they better make as many sales as they can before the Fury hits.

Otherwise Nvidia is releasing them because they feel as if they have been price gouging consumers for too long and want to make amends... Yeah right! I'm betting on them being one year out from having HBM tech on their cards. Throw the kitchen sink at consumers now before the Fury attacks!
 
n=1 said:
My thoughts are the opposite actually. Precisely because of nVidia's dominant position, it makes absolutely no sense for them to charge $649 when the card would sell equally well at $699. Why lower your margins when you don't have to? Clearly something is up, either Fiji XT is the bomb or a dud, and in each case the price makes sense.
Click to expand...

Did you read my next line? I said that as well.

But I believe, possible wrongly, that Nvidia think the Fiji cards are pretty special. The 980ti having the exact same performance for a much lower price than the Titan-X is unusual. And to release it before AMD's cards is really unusual. The 980ti just crushed the Titan-X market.

They usually leave some reason to get the top card, but there is none now.
 
cageymaru said:
Otherwise Nvidia is releasing them because they feel as if they have been price gouging consumers for too long and want to make amends... Yeah right! I'm betting on them being one year out from having HBM tech on their cards. Throw the kitchen sink at consumers now before the Fury attacks!
Click to expand...

lol, yes Nvidia has had a change of heart!! We don't need AMD anymore because Nvidia are going to supply great cards at great pries out of the goodness of their hearts :)
 
reaper12 said:
Did you read my next line? I said that as well.

But I believe, possible wrongly, that Nvidia think the Fiji cards are pretty special. The 980ti having the exact same performance for a much lower price than the Titan-X is unusual. And to release it before AMD's cards is really unusual. The 980ti just crushed the Titan-X market.

They usually leave some reason to get the top card, but there is none now.
Click to expand...

I read your entire post. But see 980 Ti's price makes even less sense if Fiji is crap, because now you're just pissing away your margins for no good reason at all.

Or maybe I understood your post wrong?
 
Toms 980ti review:

"So why not dust off our highest-of-the-high Editor’s Choice award? Call it the Fiji factor. AMD’s HBM-equipped answer to GM200, or at least what we’re expecting to contend with Nvidia’s flagship GPU, is purportedly imminent. Without knowing how it’ll affect the enthusiast graphics space, we’re reluctant to declare a victor, as much as like the GeForce GTX 980 Ti. Though that might sound unfair to the star of today’s show, rest assured, a winner will be declared soon.'

I would think they already have a Fiji card.
 
Tanquen said:
Toms 980ti review:

"So why not dust off our highest-of-the-high Editor’s Choice award? Call it the Fiji factor. AMD’s HBM-equipped answer to GM200, or at least what we’re expecting to contend with Nvidia’s flagship GPU, is purportedly imminent. Without knowing how it’ll affect the enthusiast graphics space, we’re reluctant to declare a victor, as much as like the GeForce GTX 980 Ti. Though that might sound unfair to the star of today’s show, rest assured, a winner will be declared soon.'

I would think they already have a Fiji card.
Click to expand...

Of course. That sounds like someone that already knows the answer to the million dollar question, but has a NDA imposed upon him.
 
I'm not seeing any implications.
It's just his way of letting the readers know that AMD has their own GPU coming out very soon.
 
SoulCreatr said:
Also AMD should capitalize on the recent Kepler problems and market the hell out of how they support their products longer and they continue to improve. Such as the 780 being beaten by the 290 these days. I see the same thing in the cell phone industry where the old models are cast aside when the new ones come out (case in point: Samsung), but Apple and HTC continue to support older devices. This matters to some people, ask those Kepler owners how their performance has been stagnant since about the release of Maxwell.
Click to expand...
This!^

I told my self would jump on the 980ti if it released at $650 or under but If the performance of Kepler in the current crop of games is anything to go buy, you can count me out. Because what's the point of a card as high end as this if it won't have any longevity?

My 7970 from late 2011 seems to be getting faster with every update and besides some Gamework/blackbox game issues and some disappointment with VSR not being supported in the 7000 series, it has been nothing but smooth sailing. Also if AMD refresh rumors are true then that almost guarantees they will continue supporting and optimizing for the GCN architecture well into the foreseeable future.
 
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