5970 or 295GTX for gamer / 3D animator

A

aces155

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 31, 2005
Messages
208
My old 8800gtx sli system just went down and I need to put together a new build. This rig will be both for high-end gaming as well as my main 3D design rig for doing character design and animation in Maya and Mudbox.

I've heard that a lot of people are saying that the 5970 comes out on top, but on purusing the forums I am seeing an awfully large number of complains about massive driver issues with ATI. Seeing as I play games as old as Sim City 4 on my machine, I want to find the card with the most stable and robust driver set. I figure losing 10-15 FPS here on there won't be an issue if I can actually use my card the way I want without a lot of bugs.

So which card should I choose?

Note:

I will be running 2-3 screens, DVI, all of them at 1920x1200 when I am working in Maya or other editing software. For gaming, triple screen sounds nice but if there is any loss in frame rate I will settle for single screen.
 
You should choose the one that is available for purchase. That narrows the choice down to one.
 
there is loss of frame rate. but the three screens makes up for it. trust me, its way better gaming on 3 screens for fps and driving
 
As a followup, it seems the Diamond 5970 is now back in stock at newegg for $700, so you can now choose between that and the BFG GTX 295 for $530.

Another interesting point: the Diamond 5970 has a 2 year warranty, while the BFG GTX 295 has a lifetime warranty.
 
evilsofa said:
Another interesting point: the Diamond 5970 has a 2 year warranty, while the BFG GTX 295 has a lifetime warranty.
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Which means nothing...given if you stay high end, two years you will be trashing the card anyway for the next new high end card.
 
The real answer is you should wait until Fermi comes out. Read the reviews, check out the benchmarks, THEN make your decision. The 5970 is currently the fastest video card on the market and it gives you DX11, a feature that the GTX 295 will not give you. Fermi however will support DX11 features.

If you're going to drop $500+ on a brand new video card, don't you owe it to yourself to get the latest tech? How do you plan to do Tessellation on a DX10 bound previous generation GTX 295?
 
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I am also looking for something new, but I am gonna wait a few weeks till fermi comes out and go from there
 
a few weeks fermi this, a few weeks fermi that
you guys were saying this in january and its been over two months without any solid reviews

OP ever since the 10.2/10.3 drivers have come out, 5970s have become considerably more stable and are overall extremely well performing cards, assuming you can get one.
gtx295s were the last gen cards but are still extremely capable cards nonetheless. however they are not dx11, eyefinity capable like the 5970 is.

assuming you are going to use 3 monitors with the same pixel count, hell yeah I would go with the 5970. eyefinity possibilities coupled with the fact that the card is the fastest card currently known to man, that makes the decision much easier.
 
aces155 said:
My old 8800gtx sli system just went down and I need to put together a new build. This rig will be both for high-end gaming as well as my main 3D design rig for doing character design and animation in Maya and Mudbox.

I've heard that a lot of people are saying that the 5970 comes out on top, but on purusing the forums I am seeing an awfully large number of complains about massive driver issues with ATI. Seeing as I play games as old as Sim City 4 on my machine, I want to find the card with the most stable and robust driver set. I figure losing 10-15 FPS here on there won't be an issue if I can actually use my card the way I want without a lot of bugs.

So which card should I choose?

Note:

I will be running 2-3 screens, DVI, all of them at 1920x1200 when I am working in Maya or other editing software. For gaming, triple screen sounds nice but if there is any loss in frame rate I will settle for single screen.
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The nVidia drivers still have a better feature set than ATI ones (I've been experimenting with settings for CCC's multimonitor settings and i'd still side with nVidia's dualview coz of the bugs). But it shouldn't be crippling.
 
go with the 5970 if both are options.

the 5970 is miles ahead of the 295 in every way
 
Sikkyu said:
go with the 5970 if both are options.

the 5970 is miles ahead of the 295 in every way
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In what way exactly? There's no CUDA, no PhysX, no 3D stereo, monitor configuration isn't as comprehensive. If the 'miles ahead in every way' only applies to features useful for gaming, then that's not really gonna be of help. Unlike CUDA which actually does help if your application supports it (And you need every bit of power when dealing with 3D design)
 
Sly said:
In what way exactly? There's no CUDA, no PhysX, no 3D stereo, monitor configuration isn't as comprehensive. If the 'miles ahead in every way' only applies to features useful for gaming, then that's not really gonna be of help. Unlike CUDA which actually does help if your application supports it (And you need every bit of power when dealing with 3D design)
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In the two ways that actually matter - performance and DX/OGL features. Maya doesn't support CUDA afaik, and neither of these cards are professional cards with proper support, which makes gaming DX/OGL performance the only thing significant here. Which makes the 5970 far and away the clear winner, no contest.

The 5970 is also *far* more powerful than the GTX 295, so its interesting that you would say "you need every bit of power when dealing with 3D design" right after defending the *slower* GTX 295.

And out of curiosity, what exactly is missing from CCC in regards to multi monitor? I've run dual monitors for years with both Nvidia and ATI cards - and they've both been basically identical.
 
kllrnohj said:
In the two ways that actually matter - performance and DX/OGL features. Maya doesn't support CUDA afaik, and neither of these cards are professional cards with proper support, which makes gaming DX/OGL performance the only thing significant here. Which makes the 5970 far and away the clear winner, no contest.

The 5970 is also *far* more powerful than the GTX 295, so its interesting that you would say "you need every bit of power when dealing with 3D design" right after defending the *slower* GTX 295.
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CUDA is a feature you can use professionally outside of gaming. A fast card doesn't really matter in 3D since it's only gonna be used for previews and on the GUI. Something any modern video card can do. CUDA allows you to get the GPU to complement the CPU if the program supports it.

Point is that CUDA is there as an option for you to use, and if the program supports it, you'll get a pretty significant boost. Even if the main program doesn't use it, there are plugins that do. ATI doesn't help you outside of gaming at all so being able to run Crysis at 100fps isn't gonna matter when you get back to work. If a program doesn't support it, it wouldn't matter what video card you have, if it does tho, the video card becomes part of your investment rather than just a gaming tool.

And out of curiosity, what exactly is missing from CCC in regards to multi monitor? I've run dual monitors for years with both Nvidia and ATI cards - and they've both been basically identical.
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Can't really explain it, but some of the settings just doesn't seem to catch when i'm configuring it, particularly when i'm working with one of my monitors rotated.

One additional feature i missed when i switched to ATI is the ability to have multiple desktops. It was pretty useful at the office. I'd be playing an MMORPG at work, when the boss comes in, i hit the hotkey for the next desktop, and my MMORPG, notes, messenger, faq documents, etc. disappears and my complete work desk comes up :D When he leaves, i hit the hotkey again, and the desk switches back to my gaming screen :D That was why when i was choosing a rig from the storeroom, i insisted on the one with the nVidia card ;)

PS: One more feature is the ability to customize your monitor settings. One of my previous LCD's was second hand and had a faulty circuit or something, but it wouldn't start normally. The only way i could get it to work was to go into the nVidia driver panel and make a specific profile for it (The nvidia custom resolution is pretty comprehensive) and have it use that. Not exactly something you'd use everyday, but again, it was pretty handy when you did.
 
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if your going professional with cuda or ati stream then you get quadro or firepro cards.

if your not going pro then its a pretty simple choice. old and busted vs new hotness
 
Sly said:
ATI doesn't help you outside of gaming at all [.snip..]
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Ati STREAM

Lemme give you a hand fixing some of those misconceptions and disinformation..

Sly said:
CUDA or STREAM is a feature you can use professionally outside of gaming. [..snip..] CUDA or STREAM allows you to get the GPU to complement the CPU if the program supports it.

Point is that CUDA or STREAM is there as an option for you to use, and if the program supports it, you'll get a pretty significant boost. Even if the main program doesn't use it, there are plugins that do. [..snip..]
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Between the two choices, the 5970 is obviously superior. The driver issues are greatly exaggerated and besides PhysX there's nothing it can't do better than a 295. If you can find one in stock, buy it.

Others are right though, as much as people have been repeating the "wait for Fermi" meme for the past 6 months, it might be close enough to release to actually see what it has to offer. If you go that route though, don't expect to actually be able to buy one before May or June.
 
Sly said:
CUDA is a feature you can use professionally outside of gaming. A fast card doesn't really matter in 3D since it's only gonna be used for previews and on the GUI. Something any modern video card can do. CUDA allows you to get the GPU to complement the CPU if the program supports it.

Point is that CUDA is there as an option for you to use, and if the program supports it, you'll get a pretty significant boost. Even if the main program doesn't use it, there are plugins that do. ATI doesn't help you outside of gaming at all so being able to run Crysis at 100fps isn't gonna matter when you get back to work. If a program doesn't support it, it wouldn't matter what video card you have, if it does tho, the video card becomes part of your investment rather than just a gaming tool.
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ATI supports OpenCL and DirectCompute as well. ATI cards can absolutely do GPGPU. And he already stated what professional programs he is using and they don't use CUDA - so in the OP's case CUDA is pointless. Thus, the GTX 295 really has nothing to offer and gets soundly stomped by the 5970.

One additional feature i missed when i switched to ATI is the ability to have multiple desktops. It was pretty useful at the office. I'd be playing an MMORPG at work, when the boss comes in, i hit the hotkey for the next desktop, and my MMORPG, notes, messenger, faq documents, etc. disappears and my complete work desk comes up :D When he leaves, i hit the hotkey again, and the desk switches back to my gaming screen :D That was why when i was choosing a rig from the storeroom, i insisted on the one with the nVidia card ;)
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Ever think to google for that? Microsoft and other 3rd parties all make various multiple desktop programs for various versions Windows from XP to 7. It really doesn't matter if its bundled with you're video cards driver or not.
 
Well, Fermi is still supposed to be "launching" next friday so we'll probably be seeing benchmarks and (p)reviews soon, though there's word about it not being available to buy until April 6th. I would say if you can wait another week to see if it'll be worth it, do that. If you've gotta get something sooner, go with the 5970.
 
I would recommend going with a 5870 and then getting another if you think you need it. The worst thing about the 5970 is not it's power or application, but it's insane price. Fermi is the only real competitor to it in terms of power (hopefully...).
 
dot_Zen said:
Ati STREAM
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Interesting, i'll be looking into that.

kllrnohj said:
Ever think to google for that? Microsoft and other 3rd parties all make various multiple desktop programs for various versions Windows from XP to 7. It really doesn't matter if its bundled with you're video cards driver or not.
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And i didn't even know you could do those or how useful they'd be until nVidia included them in their drivers. No googling, searching, or asking around needed, it just worked ;)
 
Glad to know that Hardforum can still take any topic and turn it into a pissing contest.

GotNoRice: My old watercooling setup sprung a nice leak in the tubing thanks to some mishandling on my part. I learned over the course of my two-year watercooling experiment that I am not enough of a tweak-head to really deal with it. My Mountmods case sports 5 high-CFM fans mounted over the card and sound volumes are not really an issue.

Update - I got one the 8800s working but it looks like the second card is out of luck. I ended up going my nearest best buy and found that the 5970 was only $50 more than the 295.
As for the extended are part of the equation unfortunately CUDA is not really supported in the 3D industry yet. The only renderer that uses it is right now is Vray which is more on the beauty shot product prototyping field than animation and games. Once CUDA gets off the ground and integrated into Max and Maya then things will definitely change. ATI stream as I've heard about it is leaning towards the technical art side with things like Art Stage. Only time will tell with these features but right now both are non-issues and I don't see it changing for me in the near future.

I was originally going to wait until 2011 to make my next upgrade. My Fiance are going to be getting married and we wanted to get matching rigs as a wedding gift to ourselves. My goal is a relatively in-expensive stopover solution rather than a full upgrade.
 
I too will reiterate what others have been saying: wait until Fermi benchmarks come out. Then make an informed decision. However, keep in mind that the original benchmarks may not do Fermi justice due to poor drivers.
 
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