Amp vs. Soundcard

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Khaydarin

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Just a quick question here...

I have a set of Beyerdynamic DT770 pro headphones, and both experience and reading articles online have told me that they take a lot of power to drive. I have a Creative X-Fi Xtreme Music soundcard, and I was wondering if that was enough to effectively drive them. How does using a sound card like that compare to an amp? I know it won't compare to a hugely-expensive amp, but is the sound card sufficient?
 
Are you unhappy with the sound? If you're satisfied, then leave it at that!
 
an x-fi is a 2v source and should drive up to a 200 ohm headphone ok. i have a 150 ohm senn hd525 and it goes loud enough to vibrate my skull at about 3/4 volume. i have tried 2 different portable amps with my x-fi and got only very small improvements.
if u have the 80 ohm set u r good to go, the 250 ohm set its up to u- u should get major bass out of those
 
ourfpshero said:
an x-fi is a 2v source and should drive up to a 200 ohm headphone ok. i have a 150 ohm senn hd525 and it goes loud enough to vibrate my skull at about 3/4 volume. i have tried 2 different portable amps with my x-fi and got only very small improvements.
if u have the 80 ohm set u r good to go, the 250 ohm set its up to u- u should get major bass out of those
Click to expand...

Loudness and sound quality are two entirely different things. When I asked if he's satisfied, I'm not asking if the X-Fi drives his headphones loud enough, I'm asking whether or not he's satisfied with the quality of sound he's getting.
 
Laxx said:
Loudness and sound quality are two entirely different things. When I asked if he's satisfied, I'm not asking if the X-Fi drives his headphones loud enough, I'm asking whether or not he's satisfied with the quality of sound he's getting.
Click to expand...

I've never used a headphone amp before - only the sound card - and I wanted to know if I was missing anything by not using an amp.
 
I have a pair of the 250 ohm DT770's and an X-fi Platinum. The headphones didn't get very loud or sound as good as I expected driving them directly from the sound card. So, I built a PPAv2 headphone amp. The difference in sound quality is amazing. If you have the 250 ohm version of those cans then I highly suggest getting a good amp for them. I haven't heard the 80 ohm versions so can't comment on what kind of difference an amp will make.
 
ourfpshero said:
if u have the 80 ohm set u r good to go, the 250 ohm set its up to u- u should get major bass out of those
Click to expand...

It works the opposite way round, low resistance is harder to drive than higher resistance.
The higher the resistance (lower current flow), the less likely the output stage of the soundcard will be saturated.
The lower the resistance (higher current flow), the more likely the output will saturate, introducing distortion.
 
Nenu said:
It works the opposite way round, low resistance is harder to drive than higher resistance.
The higher the resistance (lower current flow), the less likely the output stage of the soundcard will be saturated.
The lower the resistance (higher current flow), the more likely the output will saturate, introducing distortion.
Click to expand...

That's mostly right. High impedance headphones are said to be "easy" to drive. What this means is that they are driven mostly by voltage, not current. As such they don't put as much load on opamps. All opamps, but especially cheap ones, are much happier if there's little current load on them. They perform better. As such high impedance loads are "easy" to drive. You'll notice that the inputs on amplifiers are generally very high (like tens of thousands of ohms) and that's part of the reason.

However the problem high impedance phones have is that they require more voltage to get loud. So in a sense, they can be "hard" to drive. If your opamp can't put out sufficient voltage, then they won't get loud. No matter what you do, you won't be able to crank them up to a loud level.

So headphone amps can solve two kinds of problems, if properly designed. One is they have a good current output stage, they can provide lots and lots of current and shift the current load off the opamp (if they are opamp based which they often are). As such they drive low impedance phones well. However they also can provide lots of voltage, and as such drive even very high impedance and/or inefficient phones to high levels.


So when you get down to it both kinds are "hard" and both kinds are "easy" just in different ways. In general, you want a headphone impedance that is as high as you can go and still get the volume you need. I find that the 64 ohm Audio Technicas work well for most soundcards in that regard.

However for the best sound, the best idea is to not worry about that and get a good amp that can drive whatever you have. A PPA is a great example. It has a large current output stage, such that it can even potentially drive small speakers. As such no matter how low impedance your phones, there's plenty of current and thus good sonic performance. However, if it is given a reasonable gain (it's 10 by default which is tons) it also can produce a shitload of voltage, so even if you have very high impedance phones that are low efficiency, you get more volume than you can handle.

IMO, that's the way to go for a good system. Don't worry about getting headphones that are "right" or "easy", get the ones that are good and get an amp that does its job.
 
i've used a ppav2 on a koss pro4aat 250 ohm and it didnt do anything to help the sound! maybe one of u has specific knowledge- do these cans require a lot of power to drive?

and i agree with the audio technicas as being good w/sound cards- i have an ath ad500 and the x-fi drives them very well
 
Would the PAV 2 work well with my DT770's?

And again, how much of a difference will it make compared to running my headphones straight from my X-Fi?
 
The PPA made a huge difference for me but I have the 250 ohm version of the DT770's. How well it'll drive your cans depends on the quality of the parts selected in the building process. You'd probably have more luck getting a definitive answer over at HeadFi.org (better chance of finding someone with a PPA driving various models of headphones).

Keep in mind the PPA is a DIY (Do It Yourself) amp. You can order the PCB from Tangent at his site as well as find detailed instructions on how to choose the parts and build it (http://tangentsoft.net/audio/ppa/). There are countless answers to questions regarding headphone amps over at headfi.org. The cost and sound quality of the PPA would depend on a number of things. Primarily what parts you choose to use. Better parts = better sound = more $$$. Total cost could be anywhere from about $180 and up just for all the parts. Then you have to factor in time spent building (it took me about a month to build mine completely but I took my time and had to wait for some parts). You may be able to find someone willing to build one for you over at head-fi. You may also find a PPA is overkill for you and may be better off with a less expensive amp (there are alot of them out there. Some are fairly inexpensive and fairly easy to build).

[edit] I forgot to mention you don't have to go with a DIY amp. There many professionaly manufactured ones out there you can buy. But you'll save money going DIY since you don't have to pay for the labor and other factors that drive the prices up. If you go DIY, unless you've worked with building electronis before, the PPA may not be a good choice to build yourself the parts selection alone can be intimidating.
 
Khaydarin said:
Would the PAV 2 work well with my DT770's?

And again, how much of a difference will it make compared to running my headphones straight from my X-Fi?
Click to expand...

Unless you like more bloated bass and grainy highs.....Not much.
 
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