ATX vs mATX - still important?

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drcrappants

Weaksauce
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
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since mobos have a lot of stuff already built onto the board, is there really a need for ATX, or will mATX suffice for most purposes (including gaming)? what usually is necessary and goes into the slots?
 
Unless you want to run multiple GPU setups most will get by with a mATX.

However, most mATX boards usually have lower number phase power setups and dont get the same bells and whistles in the BIOS. Not always but most of the time.

The other issue is that I've seen a lot of Intel mATX boards dont have the same selection of modern ports on them as AMD ones will. You have to pay much more for a decent equipped Intel mATX if you dont want serial and parallel ports.
 
There are several SLI/X-fire mATX boards out there. The simple fact that a board is micro vs full ATX is meaningless. The quality between the two is the same. Compare features between them just as you would any other board.

Not sure what the babbling about ports above is. Intel boards tend to be more expensive than AMD boards sure but there is no inherent reason why an Intel board will have less ports unless you are comparing a budget intel board to an enthusiast AMD board.

Wouldn't hesitate to buy a micro board even for a second. Like you said most things are built in now so other than GPU(s) there isn't a whole lot of use for those extra expansion slots. Some would say the mATX board has the advantage of a much wider case selection.
 
bigddybn said:
There are several SLI/X-fire mATX boards out there. The simple fact that a board is micro vs full ATX is meaningless. The quality between the two is the same. Compare features between them just as you would any other board.
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The majority of mATX SLI boards only have one slot between the PCI-E slots, leaving no room for the top card to breathe. That's the main turn off of mATX, I think.
 
PiERiT said:
The majority of mATX SLI boards only have one slot between the PCI-E slots, leaving no room for the top card to breathe. That's the main turn off of mATX, I think.
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Same thing could happen on an ATX board. Again one needs to compare boards based on needed features, not the simply form factor.
 
bigddybn said:
Same thing could happen on an ATX board. Again one needs to compare boards based on needed features, not the simply form factor.
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That is why slot placement (not just number and type) is still critical.

One reason I am going with the Biostar TZ68A+RCH is not just that it's ATX and has two PCI slots (a rarity in terms of Sandy Bridge motherboards), but that unless you have two double-width GPUs in CrossFire, you can still use both PCI slots - neither PCI slot is between the two PCIe X16 slots. Instead, the two PCIe X1 slots are between the PCIe X16 slots, while the two PCI slots are below the secondary PCIe X16 (x4 electrically) slot. (Gigabyte is the only other motherboard brand to go with that option in ATX, and the GA-Z68XP-UD3 costs $30 more.)

While CrossFire is de rigeur in terms of Z68 (with SLI an option) and not normally my cup of coffee, I'd rather not wind up being put in the penalty box of losing a PCI slot by choosing it.
 
Sound cards, RAID cards, etc...

That motherboard would work fine.
 
bigddybn said:
Sound cards, RAID cards, etc...

That motherboard would work fine.
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Onboard RAID is only capable of 1 or 10 (0 is not a proper RAID level).

ASUS has an µATX 1366 board. If that doesn't show that most people don't NEED an ATX or bigger board, I don't know what will. Only thing you might need in add-on cards is GPU, maybe good sound (or send S/PDIF to some good speakers or a receiver).

EDIT: Actually screw that, Supermicro had an µATX (well, 10"x9.6", close enough) board with dual LGA 771 sockets. LGA 1155 would be doable if it were capable of dual socket, 1366 might be a stretch (bigger socket - maybe with only six DIMMs total and 95W power limit, but you need space for the goddamn IOH).
 
what other options for the extra slots for add on cards exluding gpu (will use 1 vga card and upgrade if needed, no xfire/sli). what does sound have to do with it (sorry im a noob).
 
Not an issue for everyone, but the number of available USB headers, SATA connections, etc., could also be critical for some.

I'm a user whose storage device setup takes up eight SATA connectors (three RAID 0 arrays, plus an optical drive), and I wouldn't mind having one more open, in order to connect old hard drives occasionally to wipe out their content before selling them on Craiglist, etc. I'd be surprised if there are a lot of mATX boards that can accommodate that much SATA connectivity.
 
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guney said:
Not an issue for everyone, but the number of available USB headers, SATA connections, etc., could also be critical for some.

I'm a user whose storage device setup takes up eight SATA connectors (three RAID 0 arrays, plus an optical drive), and I wouldn't mind having one more open, in order to connect old hard drives occasionally to wipe out their content before selling them on Craiglist, etc. I'd be surprised if there are a lot of mATX boards that can accommodate that much SATA connectivity.
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Tyan has a board with LSI 2008 8-port SAS controller ;)

drcrappants said:
what other options for the extra slots for add on cards exluding gpu (will use 1 vga card and upgrade if needed, no xfire/sli). what does sound have to do with it (sorry im a noob).
Click to expand...

A GOOD sound card, not the crappy onboard Realtek. Single card, Micro ATX is fine for 90% of the people. And there are good Micro ATX cases available too, like Fractal Design Mini, SilverStone Fortress 3, etc.
 
drcrappants said:
what things are prebuilt onto the mobo nowadays that we had to worry about in the past?

i ask mainly because i am wondering if the mATX feature of the GA-Z68MX-UD2H-B3 LGA 1155 Z68 mATX Intel Motherboard is worth my gaming needs. it is cheap for a Z68 (125$)!
http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?sku=484998
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The TZ68A+RCH is priced under that - in fact, it replaced the Gigabyte in my build list.

http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0371606 - the Biostar TZ68A+RCH @ MC

Unless you absolutely have to have mATX for case reasons, it sacrifices nothing to the Gigabyte board in terms of features; it has two features the Gigabyte lacks (true UEFI and those PCI slots).

It was the PCI slots (and the price) that sealed the deal for Biostar - UEFI and the included Media Center remote are basically icing.

While it is replacing the P5G41-M LX2/GB in Mighty Mouse, the case it will reside in can take full-size ATX mobos without a quibble - in fact, the first motherboard the case ever hosted was the full-ATX ASUS P4C800-E Deluxe.
 
My Maximus IV Gene has 6 internal SATA ports, 2 SATA-3, 4 SATA-2, and two additional eSATA ports for a total of 8 SATA ports. I don't use eSATA.............I use an external USB 3.0 HD docking station......much easier to add/remove drives on USB than it is eSATA and speed is comparable.

It also has onboard Intel Gigabit LAN, no crappy Marvell or Realtek. You'll see in my sig that I'm running 16 gigs of RAM and the VRM's on this mobo is beefy enough to OC on.

My rig can do SLI/Crossfire, and I've done SLI'd GTX 275's on my previous rig with no heat problems. My Lan Gear case is the best mATX as far as I'm concerned for cooling/size. Here are some shots of my Cogage Arrow (TR Silver Arrow clone):

http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1035995346&postcount=17

Updated shots with the Arrow on my Maximus IV Gene:

b183c0a4.jpg
 
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MassiveOverkill said:
My Maximus IV Gene has 6 internal SATA ports, 2 SATA-3, 4 SATA-2, and two additional eSATA ports for a total of 8 SATA ports. I don't use eSATA.............I use an external USB 3.0 HD docking station......much easier to add/remove drives on USB than it is eSATA and speed is comparable.

It also has onboard Intel Gigabit LAN, no crappy Marvell or Realtek. You'll see in my sig that I'm running 16 gigs of RAM and the VRM's on this mobo is beefy enough to OC on.

My rig can do SLI/Crossfire, and I've done SLI'd GTX 275's on my previous rig with no heat problems. My Lan Gear case is the best mATX as far as I'm concerned for cooling/size. Here are some shots of my Cogage Arrow (TR Silver Arrow clone):

http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1035995346&postcount=17

Updated shots with the Arrow on my Maximus IV Gene:

b183c0a4.jpg
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Actually, the current-generation Realtek PHY is far from crap (at least the current gigabit PHY, the RTL8111E). The real issue is that Intel has the far-better reputation among PHYs - which it deserves.

I've had Intel gigabit PHY (I mentioned the P4C800-E Deluxe) and Realtek gigabit (both my current P5G41-M LX2/GB and P5M-N - though it had the nForce 7100/630i chipset, the LAN PHY was supplied to nVidia by RealTek, and can use drivers from either). I didn't, and haven't, have any issues with the Realtek PHY in either (the P5M-N failed due to a BIOS failure, which is why the P5G41-M LX2/GB is in place).

Intel has that rep because it's one of the Old Men of Ethernet (along with the 3Com division of HP) - only AT&T, IBM, and Attachmate have a longer history of putting data through wiring than Intel.

(While most of us know of Attachmate today as the company which acquired Novell and SuSE of Netware and Linux-distribution fame, the core of Attachmate was originally called DCA, which made their reputation supplying networking hardware to IBM for use in the original IBM PC, PC/XT, PC/AT, and 3270/AT. Yeah - I'm kinda dating myself.)
 
zack_a said:
depend wt do u need.
if u need 2 video card, dont choose matx
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There are some mATX motherboards that can do CrossFireX, and some that can also do SLI (notably from Gigabyte and ASRock).

The bigger issue with mATX is placement (or outright lack) of PCI slots, while ATX is generally pricier than mATX. (Exception - Biostar TZ68A+, which is still the lowest-priced Z68-based motherboard I've seen from anyone - regardless of formfactor. That it also supports UEFI is a bonus.)
 
PGHammer said:
Actually, the current-generation Realtek PHY is far from crap (at least the current gigabit PHY, the RTL8111E). The real issue is that Intel has the far-better reputation among PHYs - which it deserves.

I've had Intel gigabit PHY (I mentioned the P4C800-E Deluxe) and Realtek gigabit (both my current P5G41-M LX2/GB and P5M-N - though it had the nForce 7100/630i chipset, the LAN PHY was supplied to nVidia by RealTek, and can use drivers from either). I didn't, and haven't, have any issues with the Realtek PHY in either (the P5M-N failed due to a BIOS failure, which is why the P5G41-M LX2/GB is in place).
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I've had some real issues with Realtek onboard on not one, but two recent boards (with in the last year). It's not that Realtek is crap, because it works fine. Its not very good because they often die, but not all at once in many cases -- and cause other problems in the process. I like Intel's onboard just because I've never had a problem with it yet -- it could happen, but in the 9 years I've been using it, I've never been let down. It's just one of those things. Also, Asus adopting Intel's PHY on there newer mid/high end consumer boards is a step in the right direction. I'll be glad to see better onboard GbE and audio.

98% of your choices are RealTek audio, with 2% VIA. Onboard GbE is 87% Realtek, 12% Intel, and possibly .037% something else.
 
Honestly I haven't had the need for atx but the spacing is nice since most gpus go in the slot closest to the cpu and if you have 1 add in card it blocks air flow for the gpu.
I ended up going matx since I don't need any add in cards at the moment.
 
drcrappants said:
what usually is necessary and goes into the slots?
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Necessary for 90%* of people:
Graphics card (if gaming or if not included on motherboard)
Sound card (but probably included on motherboard)
Ethernet card (but probably included on motherboard)

Optional:
Raid card (a "good enough for most people" version is probably on the motherboard)
Wireless card (might be included on motherboard, USB options also available)

* I pulled this statistic out of my butt.

The four slots provided by the mATX form factor are plenty for most general purpose users and gamers.
 
ATX is almost necessary if you are going to go dual GPU with high-end cards, unless you have a case with *very* good airflow, or are putting the entire system on water. You really want the top card to be able to breathe.
Back when I had my system on a X58M, my top GPU was idling at 60C and quickly climbed to 95C on even medium-stress gaming (470's with non-reference coolers).
 
I'm not sure why you'd look at mATX in an ATX case, unless it is significantly cheaper and meets your needs?
 
grambo said:
I'm not sure why you'd look at mATX in an ATX case, unless it is significantly cheaper and meets your needs?
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Price is pretty much the only reason to think of mATX in an ATX case - it was the reason I went with mATX with the last two motherboards.

The only reason I am not going mATX for a third time is that the Biostar TZ68A+RCH is not only available locally brick-and-mortar, but it also undercuts any mATX offering with the same chipset. (The fact that it also has UEFI doesn't hurt, but was actually irrelevant.)
 
ckryan said:
I've had some real issues with Realtek onboard on not one, but two recent boards (with in the last year). It's not that Realtek is crap, because it works fine. Its not very good because they often die, but not all at once in many cases -- and cause other problems in the process. I like Intel's onboard just because I've never had a problem with it yet -- it could happen, but in the 9 years I've been using it, I've never been let down. It's just one of those things. Also, Asus adopting Intel's PHY on there newer mid/high end consumer boards is a step in the right direction. I'll be glad to see better onboard GbE and audio.

98% of your choices are RealTek audio, with 2% VIA. Onboard GbE is 87% Realtek, 12% Intel, and possibly .037% something else.
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Agreed with your reasoning - as I stated, I've previous experience with Intel PHYs before, and specifically in an ASUS mobo (the aforementioned P4C800-E Deluxe). The thing is, for the longest time, at least as far as desktop chipsets went, Intel was not in the PHY business (as far as third-party motherboards went). Your choices were Realtek or, in some cases, 3Com - the P4C800 Deluxe, for example, used a 3Com gigabit PHY. If you wanted an Intel PHY, you had to choose an Intel motherboard - and even then, it had to be a relatively higher-end Intel motherboard to get a gigabit PHY. So, it wasn't that ASUS went away from Intel PHYs deliberately - it was Intel dropping the Communications Streaming Architecture and pretty much denying the PHYs to anybody outside of their own-brand motherboards.
 
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