Best HDTV 32"-40"!!!!

The TC-P42G15 does appear interesting... Does the 600hz work similar to how LCD's 240hz works?
 
Sure I could tell you (not that I really knew, I had to look it up) but how about Cnet's explanation :D:

http://www.cnet.com.au/videos/please-explain/please-explain-600hz-sub-field-drive-22479973.htm


It is supposed to help with motion resolution and here is a excerpt from a V10 review:

Technologies developed by LCD TV makers can also eliminate film judder, using higher refresh rates of 120 Hz and 240 Hz. Repeating film frames 5 times (120 Hz) or 10 times (240Hz) eliminates judder. However, most 2009 LCD sets also use a system called motion compensation/motion estimation (MC/ME) that makes motion smoother by creating synthesized frames between the actual film frames.

Unfortunately, the MC/ME circuits also create artifacts that make film based content appear as if it was recorded as video rather than transferred from movie film. There is a reduction or elimination of the appearance of film grain and other unwanted visible image changes. Some LCD HDTV makers claim this function can be deactivated while others brands and models don’t offer the choice. For example, the recently reviewed Samsung UN46B8000 continued to make film based content “video like” even though the ME/MC circuit was set to the “off” position. The video “look” has been called by some the “soap opera effect” or SEO.

Various home theater forum contributors opine about the effect, with some liking it and others (including the HD Guru®) not. In our opinion, when displaying a movie (whether at a theater or home) the medium should preserve the film look, including the grain associated with chemical photography. The V10’s system eliminates film judder while maintaining the film look. To date, LCD displays with MC/ME frame insertion don’t.
LCDs need 120 or 240 Hz to reduce motion blur. 60 Hz LCDs display about 300 out of 1080 lines per picture height (PPH) during motion, while 120 Hz LCDs max out at around 600 out of 1080. The V10 reproduces full 1080 PPH motion resolution, confirmed using the FPD test disc.

http://hdguru.com/the-new-king-of-hdtv-displays-panasonics-tc-p54v10-reviewed/458/


And one specific from a G10 review:

The G10 conquered the motion resolution test as well, scoring a perfect 1080 lines (Per Picture Height) using the FPD Motion Resolution test disc, again besting last year’s TH46PZ800 and the Pioneer Pro-141. Those plasmas measured just fewer than 900 lines (PPH). By comparison, 120 Hz LCD flat panels typically measure around 600 lines PPH.

http://hdguru.com/panasonic-tcp50g10-50-plasma-review/416/
 
Nice need, thanks for the post it was very informative. It seems i may be considering a pdp now : D
 
Forceman said:
You do know that the 120Hz TVs are not the same as a 120Hz monitor, right? The TVs use some "trickery" to achieve the 120Hz, they don't actually refresh that fast so you won't be able to run them at 120 off a computer.
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UMMM and you think 120 hz monitors DONT use some sort of trickery???? LOL
 
I wouldn't go over 37" if you're going to be using this as a computer monitor. I have a 37" and sit about as far away as you can in a normal computer desk setup (wide desk, monitor way at the back edge, pullout keyboard tray, long arms, etc) and the pixel pitch still occasionally annoys me. It's only very occasionally, but I definitely wouldn't want to go bigger.

Unfortunately, the MC/ME circuits also create artifacts that make film based content appear as if it was recorded as video rather than transferred from movie film.
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It sure does. The first thing I did when I got my 120 Hz LCD was turn all that interpolation crap off. First movie I watched on it was the new Indiana Jones and it made the movie look like it was entirely digitally animated. 120 Hz is great for eliminating 3:2 pulldown but as far as I'm concerned there's no other use for it (and therefore no use for 240 Hz).
 
For a videophile you rely on cnet way too much. Go to avs.com and check out the forums for specific feedback and reviews on most of the major models or specific feedback for your particular models or brands you're researching.
 
Sherloc said:
I think i found a really nice pick. The Samsung LN40B750 is promising.
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I've owned my LN40B750 for a month now. It works really well as a PC monitor. First, you have to use HDMI input 1 and change its source name to PC/DVI. Once you do that (and calibrate it) you have a proper PC monitor with perfectly clear text. Its input lag might be a little high for gamers but for a combo HTPC, HDTV, and Blu-ray display, it's hard to beat.

I suggest you first disable the B750's Movie mode auto dimming in the service menu before calibrating. Samsung's LN40B650 comes from the factory with auto-dimming disabled for Movie mode but you need to check the panel version first (on a sticker above the right side jack panel) before buying. All the 40" B750s have SQ01 (Samsung) panels but with the B650s you may or may not get a Samsung made panel.
 
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Sherloc said:
Thanks for the input. Ye, the Samsung UN32B6000 i'm looking at is 3,000,000:1 Dynamic contrast ratio, LED backlight, 120hz. The Sony KDL-40XBR9 has 240hz and 100,000:1 Dynamic contrast but is fluorescent backlight.
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Forget the new LED range. They have aggravating uniformity issues
 
Sherloc said:
I think i found a really nice pick. The Samsung LN40B750 is promising. CNET gave it superior reviews over even most LED LCD's and it's in a decent pricing bracket.

Quick Specs: 1080p, 150,000:1 Dynamic Contrast Ratio, Flourescent Backlight, 240hz/24p.

Interesting Reviewer Quote: "Uniformity: The screen of the LNB750 is more uniform across its surface than many LCDs we've tested, including the Samsung 7000, the Toshiba, and the Sony XBR9. It didn't suffer from overtly brighter corners as the 7000 and the XBR9 did, although in flat field test patterns we did notice the edges of the LNB750's screen appeared slightly brighter than the middle."

http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/samsung-ln40b750/4505-6482_7-33490657.html?tag=mncol;lst
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I reviewed the 46" version and it was a remarkable set. However, the lag was off putting (even in PC mode)

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/samsung-le46b750-le40b750-20090526151.htm

However, beware of the panel lottery
 
Climber said:
For a videophile you rely on cnet way too much. Go to avs.com and check out the forums for specific feedback and reviews on most of the major models or specific feedback for your particular models or brands you're researching.
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ditto cnet's reviews should be taken with a grain of salt
 
Snowdog said:
Most TV's claiming 120Hz do run the display at 120Hz, but they only accept 24Hz or 60Hz input. I haven't read a review of TV that accepts 120Hz input.

The main advantage for 120Hz sets is playing Blu Rays which are mostly 24fps (Hz). 24 *5 = 120, so you get no additional juddering watching movies on 120Hz set. On 60Hz set 24 fps gives uneven timing to frames, show one frame 3 times (48ms), the next 2 times (32ms).

Honestly I have no idea how a big a deal this 3:2 pulldown juddering is. I have a 60Hz TV and movies don't look any worse for juddering than they do in the Cinema.

IMO it's 24fps itself that sucks, its archaic, it cause jerky panning as is, we need to jump that to at least 48fps like some IMAX films. Much more lifelike, no jerky panning.
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I also prefer 48p but that's another story

Most people here seems to be confused by pull-down and MCFI.



PS: There is a difference between 2:3 and even pull-down. A big difference
 
Sherloc said:
Hey guys i've recently decided on purchasing another HDTV and was looking around at all the different models and companies. I've come to the conclusion that i definately want a 120Hz+ HDTV. The models i've been looking at are the Sony Bravia 40XBR9 and the Samsung UN32B6000. If you guys have any recommendations it would be much appreciated. : D
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After reading most your posts, the best choice for you personally is the Samsung 40B550.

PS: Use the extra money to buy a colorimeter and download the HCFR calibration software, which is free btw.

For more info, check out my guide (the link to which can be found on my signature)
 
Nielo TM said:
After reading most your posts, the best choice for you personally is the Samsung 40B550.
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Nielo, I agree with your replys so far, but if you're going to suggest the 40B550, the OP should also be told that Samsung's CMS color system menu is only available on the 650 series on up.
 
Nielo TM said:
The 650 has lag issue and the B550's color decoding is pretty good.
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I'm not sure of the UK models, but my B750 has 3 choices in the source name menu for HDMI1 for PC use - PC, PC/DVI, DVI. Of the three, only PC/DVI seems to bypass most of the processing that causes input lag. I haven't measured the lag, but to my eyes it's quite acceptable for anyone except hard core FPS gamers.

As far as color decoding is concerned, having a CMS is a definite plus if you're going to calibrate with the equipment you suggested or have an ISF pro do it. After you've seen a 750 ISF calibrated to near perfection, it's hard to accept the factory presets.
 
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CMS can also be configured via the service menu by pros, but it may void the warranty

Anyway, the B750 in the UK does have such features, but still...there was notable lag.
 
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I have the 37RV530U currently and it's great but i want to upgrade to something that will complement my blu-ray's as well as my pc games : D.
 
needmorecarnitine said:
why should you not use a PC on a plasma?
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1. PDP can't natively display 24bit color. So dithering will be visible in some areas.
2. Low-level flicker (even on the new 5L Neo-PDP)
3. PWM noise
4. Pixel structure can often lead to eye strain
5. Uneven pixel aging

It all boils down to usage. The above only applies if the PDP will be used as a primary monitor.
 
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On an HDTV..yes but I haven't tried that on a monitor. However, it maybe possible to send custom timing via nvidia control panel and force the monitor to display 48Hz.

On an HDTV, it is extremely easy. All you need is a TV that will accept and display 24p evenly and a fairly modern GPU.
 
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Okay, so in this case I'm thinking you would need an HDTV which takes 24Hz and upscales it with MCFI to a proper multiple.

What HDTV do you own that I assume does this correctly?
 
Yep, 120Hz.

Though, I do remember reading somewhere that some models scale from 24Hz -> 60Hz -> 120Hz which clearly is substandard. Christ, the HDTV market is unpleasant.
 
Whoisthisreally said:
Okay, so in this case I'm thinking you would need an HDTV which takes 24Hz and upscales it with MCFI to a proper multiple.

What HDTV do you own that I assume does this correctly?
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Pull-down and MCFI are completely different

Pull-down simply repeats the same frame over and over, which doesn't alter the original content (as long as its even). For example, 2:2 pull-down simply repeats every frame twice.

24p (content): 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24

2:2 = 1 1 2 2 3 3 4 4 5 5 6 6 7 7 8 8... = 48p (48Hz)

In the case of 3:3 = 1 1 1 2 2 2 3 3 3 4 4 4 5 5 5 6 6 6 7 7 7 ... = 72p (72Hz)



Low-level MCFI/MVFI creates new frames from existing frames to smooth out the motion, which results is soap effect.

e.g. 1 I 2 I 3 I 4 I 5 I 6 I 7 I...

I = Interpolated frame


What you need is a TV that accepts and displays 24p without telecine judder (aka 2:3 pull-down judder).

There are few standard 60Hz with such capability (inc models from Samsung, Sony and Panasonic. As far as I'm aware, Toshiba 60Hz LCDs can't process 24p correctly, so it's best to stay away from them.


Forgot to add, standard 60Hz LCDs with true 24p support will automatically switch to either 48 or 72Hz
 
Whoisthisreally said:
Yep, 120Hz.

Though, I do remember reading somewhere that some models scale from 24Hz -> 60Hz -> 120Hz which clearly is substandard. Christ, the HDTV market is unpleasant.
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But a bit less so than the dedicated PC monitor market I think...

(But maybe your point explains why some of the 120 Hz models can't do a clean conversion. Also have or at least had to watch out for Blu-Ray players that do some screwy internal conversion and mess 24 Hz input up...)
 
Whoisthisreally said:
Yep, 120Hz.

Though, I do remember reading somewhere that some models scale from 24Hz -> 60Hz -> 120Hz which clearly is substandard. Christ, the HDTV market is unpleasant.
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That's extremely rare. I haven't heard of the 2009 models with such problems

PS: Maybe it's a problem localized to low-end sets.
 
Yes

I reviewed the 46B750 and Vincent reviewed few other models and none of them had any issues with 24p processing.

It was only a problem with earlier models (similar to 1080p models limited to 1080i input).
 
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