Best TN panel at a reasonable price

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Chubby

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I'm in the market for a new 24" monitor so I've spent the last few weeks researching monitors, and now I'm hoping for some help.

I've been looking at the some Samsung monitors (P2450H, 2494HM and B2430H), and I'm interested in getting something in that price class.

I'm going to be the only one using the monitor (and I have a TV which I'm hooking up to the computer), so viewing angles don't mean all that much. It'll just be used for gaming, watching movies and surfing the internet.

Thanks!
 
The Acer H243H can be purchased from NCIX for 240$ U.S.

Here is a review of the H243X (includes webcam) but is the same monitor. It is one of the fastest fastest TN's you can get and has excellent contrast ratio and black depth. The P2405H and 2494HM are good, but neither are as reactive as the Acer, and the Acer has better color reproduction as welll. You can compare of of them if you like on Digital Versus.

Review
http://www.digitalversus.com/article-357-7266-38.html

Buy It
http://www.ncixus.com/products/52092/ET.FH3HP.002/Acer/

If you can handle a bit of motion blur (identical amount as on the 2494hm ) the Samsung F2380 is amazing as well and is also not a TN so you never have to worry about backlight bleed. It has a 3,000:1 static contrast ratio. I have one and use it for console gaming and movies.

Review
http://www.digitalversus.com/article-357-6293-36.html

Buy it
http://www.ncixus.com/products/?sku=44317&vpn=LS23NVTABW/ZC&manufacture=Samsung&promoid=1097
 
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If he wants gaming I don't see the point in recommending: Samsung F2380 - which is kinda weak for more reasons then one... Has a deep black but not very capable when in comes to black levels, as in loss of detail and let's not forget the response time...

Maybe this could help... - they don't BS in their reviews.
 
F2380 response time (real world tests not manufacturer bs) is identical to that of the 2494hm, which the OP had wanted. With some tweaking the F2380 is almost perfect, and black levels are only outclassed by top of the line Plasmas and Local Dimming sets. You Don't even need to use a calibration tool to fix gamma crush, just some minor Rivatuner adjustments.

That article is pointless, the OP wants a monitor, not to read a ton of information from a site that hardly reviews monitors.
 
The F2380 is fantastic for its black levels no doubt. But it does have a fair amount of ghosting , if that bothers the OP even a bit it'll be pretty strong at 8ms with those deep black levels so that Acer maybe more his speed.

I would recommend the Asus VW266H : http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236047&Tpk=VW266h 279 after rebate , has some of the lowest input latency you can get for a TN panel so its excellent for gaming.
 
Thanks for the replies, guys. I'll definitely look into those monitors.

I should have mentioned in my post that I'm from Denmark, so I can't buy stuff in the US. Sorry about that.
 
WinstonThePartyMan said:
F2380 response time (real world tests not manufacturer bs) is identical to that of the 2494hm, which the OP had wanted. With some tweaking the F2380 is almost perfect, and black levels are only outclassed by top of the line Plasmas and Local Dimming sets. You Don't even need to use a calibration tool to fix gamma crush, just some minor Rivatuner adjustments.

That article is pointless, the OP wants a monitor, not to read a ton of information from a site that hardly reviews monitors.
Click to expand...

He said he was looking at it, as in taking in consideration...

I've been looking at the some Samsung monitors (P2450H, 2494HM and B2430H), and I'm interested in getting something in that price class.
Click to expand...

... but doesn't know what it's like and that's why his asking for advice. You may get the best contrast with that monitor, but I wouldn't recommend it for gaming or movies. The OP asked for the best TN panel at a reasonable price (and for a TN that's more then reasonable) and you recommend one that's doing worst then a good TN in more ways then one...

As for that article, it's only one page (or few extra if you get interested in a good read) from a trustworthy site when it comes to this subject. Ok, maybe you don't like to read and few pages for you is like a ton of information, but don't assume we're all is same position... When I'm ready for a new purchase, like one for a new monitor and didn't keep up with all the news since my last purchase, I like to get informed as much as possible "that way I increase my chance of making a good decision" and reading good articles can help.

And here's another good article from of the best sites when it comes to LCD monitors, and article about Samsung F2380 regarding his potential, or lack of it like in this example (the OP did say he's interested about movies as well):

http://www.prad.de/images/monitore/samsung_f2380/samsung-f2380-scrubs_collage.jpg

...not so good with games, not even movies.... If I'd pick monitor without the proper information, just based on a recommendation from a user, well that could be a mistake and this is the best example why.

LG Flatron W2442PA-SF

..or even the (maybe even he's bigger brother could do the same):

Asus VK246H

LG seems better for Video and quite good for Gaming as well, wile the Asus seems slightly better for gaming and little worse when it comes to video. From those two I'd pick the LG since I doubt you'll notice the differences when it comes to gaming as described in those reviews.

----

At a similar price I found the LG W2220P to be good enough for my needs since it has an e-IPS panel, but it's "22, yet it's not that bigger difference when it come to visible screen... definitely not like the differences between Non Wide monitors. :) The resolution is also lower, as in 1689 x 1050 compered to 1920 x 1080, but if you're in to gaming, that could be a good thing as in: more performance from your video-card (some modern games can be playable at 1680 x 1050 but with same video-card might not do so well at 1920 x 1080).
 
Thanks XSAIIiN. The LG Flatron W2442PA-SF looks very interesting. Just have a question.

XSAlliN said:
At a similar price I found the LG W2220P to be good enough for my needs since it has an e-IPS panel, but it's "22, yet it's not that bigger difference when it come to visible screen... definitely not like the differences between Non Wide monitors. :) The resolution is also lower, as in 1689 x 1050 compered to 1920 x 1080, but if you're in to gaming, that could be a good thing as in: more performance from your video-card (some modern games can be playable at 1680 x 1050 but with same video-card might not do so well at 1920 x 1080).
Click to expand...

How would Bluray movies look on this monitor? Would I notice any difference between a 1920x1080/1920x1200 monitor?
 
Chubby said:
Thanks XSAIIiN. The LG Flatron W2442PA-SF looks very interesting. Just have a question.



How would Bluray movies look on this monitor? Would I notice any difference between a 1920x1080/1920x1200 monitor?
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This was also answerd in the above article:

The model always shows the images transmitted via HDMI in full screen mode in 16:9, since this is the typical film format. This is no problem with 1080p media, since the native monitor resolution corresponds exactly to its specifications. Display of 720p or 576p are also scaled to full screen.
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Should do just fine, or even better then that since the video content playback seems to be the strongest point for this model. And also 1920 x 1080 (16:9), the native resolution of this monitor is exactly 1080p, which is the same resolution as Blu-ray/HD video content.
 
Sorry, I was talking about the LG W2220P you mentioned (hence the quote). It has a native res. 1689 x 1050, which I why I'm asking.
 
Chubby said:
Sorry, I was talking about the LG W2220P you mentioned (hence the quote). It has a native res. 1689 x 1050, which I why I'm asking.
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Looks great! Actually HD looks best, it has no problem scaling HD higher resolution to monitor resolution, I even set my player so that it display any video content at monitors native resolution (1689 x 1050). DVD looks decent but with some loss in detail if you watch it from close distance (1 m or closer), using a progressive filter and increasing the distance (about 2 m) helps a lot. Scaling lower resolutions, now that's where loss in detail becames visible and with older content like 400 x 300 is even worst, but guess you already know that if you owned an LCD before.

I don't have a camera that cam capture the quality I see with my eyes, but maybe it helps:

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/6981/p4115004.jpg

http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/6553/p4115014.jpg

Yet, there's one thing you should know if movies are your main concern, monitors with IPS panel (like mine) have great colors reproduction, mine it's even good for gaming but it's not so good when it comes to BLACK content, especially if watching a movie at night, one that shows night scenes, since the black of IPS has a lite glow. There's more info on the topic regarding this monitor...
 
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XSAlliN said:
Looks great! Actually HD looks best, it has no problem scaling HD higher resolution to monitor resolution, I even set my player so that it display any video content at monitors native resolution (1689 x 1050). DVD looks decent but with some loss in detail if you watch it from close distance (1 m or closer), using a progressive filter and increasing the distance (about 2 m) helps a lot. Scaling lower resolutions, now that's where loss in detail becames visible and with older content like 400 x 300 is even worst, but guess you already know that if you owned an LCD before.

I don't have a camera that cam capture the quality I see with my eyes, but maybe it helps:

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/6981/p4115004.jpg

http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/6553/p4115014.jpg

Yet, there's one thing you should know if movies are your main concern, monitors with IPS panel (like mine) have great colors reproduction, mine it's even good for gaming but it's not so good when it comes to BLACK content, especially if watching a movie at night, one that shows night scenes, since the black of IPS has a lite glow. There's more info on the topic regarding this monitor...
Click to expand...

Thanks mate.

One more question (I'll stop soon, promise!).

Do you know what the difference is between the W2442PA, -SF and -BF? What do these extensions mean?
 
My first recommendation for the Acer H234H is better than the LG W2242SPA....If you want to choose a gaming monitor from PRAD then check out the LG W2261V as it has a much better contrast ratio than the LG W2242 and is better for gaming.

http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/review/2009/review-lg-w2261vp.html

Digital Versus does rate it as high as PRAD though, but they do review both the 22" and 23" versions. I would go with the 23"

22"
http://www.digitalversus.com/article-358-4614-35.html

23"
http://www.digitalversus.com/article-357-5175-35.html

According to Digital Versus the Acer is still the better gaming monitor

http://www.digitalversus.com/article-357-7266-38.html
 
Interestingly testfreaks has the LG over the Acer you linked to last... 9.2 vs. 9.0

Thanks though, I'll look into the monitors
 
And the W2261v is>W2442 according to Prad.de in terms of gaming and contrast. Digital versus review is almsot identical to prad.de (except contrast measurement for the w2261v) and according to them the the Acer>both the w2261v and P2405H, hence my suggestion.
 
I don't see a point in getting TN screens at that price range when you can get 2209w, new 22" HP IPS or Nec EA231 for slightly more.
 
Yeah some one wanting to game without a calibration unit and no intention of doing color work wants a monitor with poor contrast, IPS glow, poor colors unless calibrated, a monitor without reviews, or a monitor with poor motion performance.....

Now if he intended to have an eyefinity set up and had a calibration unit those would all be great suggestions.
 
If he isn't doing the color work then color accuracy wouldn't be issue.

Also you suggested him F2380
Now you say S2209 and EA231 are bad choice
Can you explain how is it possible when both of them are clearly superior to F2380 in gaming ?
 
WinstonThePartyMan said:
Digital versus review is almsot identical to prad.de (except contrast measurement for the w2261v) and according to them the the Acer>both the w2261v and P2405H, hence my suggestion.
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Digital Versus's 1 page review vs. 30 pages that cover all the information you'd need is almost identical to you?! :eek: Ok, you don't like to read, I already got that from your last post, but please stop BS-ing. Like you did regarding monitor with IPS panels which you've never seen in practice and I doubt you know what their capable. Even without hardware calibration their color reproduction is better than any TN, which is quite visible in a comparison. The only difference is that with calibration they get even better as in, good enough for professional graphics.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SjS6VCVAcA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3fgwawRBnk&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InkyZ42vAe8&feature=related

Digital Versus does general reviews, you can't even find basic details like visible screen size in their reviews. Yet I do admit, that site is good for a general comparison between the available monitor list.
 
Michaelius said:
If he isn't doing the color work then color accuracy wouldn't be issue.

Also you suggested him F2380
Now you say S2209 and EA231 are bad choice
Can you explain how is it possible when both of them are clearly superior to F2380 in gaming ?
Click to expand...

Because the NEC is not superior for gaming, it handles motion worse than the F2380 (both perform similarly to a "5ms" TN but the F2380 IS better), and the Dell 2209 has weak contrast and black depth, THE OP was specifically looking at TN panels.

This makes the F2380 a good choice, it handles motion better than the NEC but also has much better contrast...if one is going to put up with a bit of blur they might as well get the best contrast ratio...Need me to post my own PixerPixan results to verify this with DV's results?

XSAlliN said:
Digital Versus's 1 page review vs. 30 pages that cover all the information you'd need is almost identical to you?! :eek: Ok, you don't like to read, I already got that from your last post, but please stop BS-ing. Like you did regarding monitor with IPS panels which you've never seen in practice and I doubt you know what their capable. Even without hardware calibration their color reproduction is better than any TN, which is quite visible in a comparison. The only difference is that with calibration they get even better as in, good enough for professional graphics.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SjS6VCVAcA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3fgwawRBnk&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InkyZ42vAe8&feature=related

Digital Versus does general reviews, you can't even find basic details like visible screen size in their reviews. Yet I do admit, that site is good for a general comparison between the available monitor list.
Click to expand...

Their general verdict on the important facts regarding gaming and overall conclusion are very similar. There is no need to read a 30 page review when in its entirety when you can look at the important things like gaming performance, input lag vs CRT, and contrast measurements within a few seconds of looking at Digital Versus' page. Prad is aimed at the hardcore who want to know every single detail and people who do color work.

Now you are posting IPS vs TN videos... The Dell 2209's has poor contrast and greyish blacks..that should eliminate it right away sense the OP wanted a TN and not do any color work or an eyefinity set up....

If he wanted to have an eyefinity setup for gaming and hated TN's that would be a good recommendation

I will stop posting "BS" when you stop trying to derail the thread with 30 page articles and IPS vs TN comparisons and bad choices from an in-depth site that clearly had better solutions for gaming...with all your "reading skills," I would have thought a better solution would be obvious.

Yes I do know that Prad/xbitlabs/blogspot did not like the F2380. Both Cnet and DV did not have any problem with it. I calibrated mine and found easy solutions for problems they list and have it set up next to the Samsung 2233rz, which is one of the fastest monitors you can buy. I have ran PixperAn on it as well. I would not recommend it if it sucked for gaming and movie watching.... Not saying my findings are 100% correct either, I am no a professional and never will be, but I would not be on here recommending it if it sucked and I had nothing to back my opinions up with.
 
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I would go with the Asus VW or VK 246h. I have a couple, and for games its hard to beat the almost 0 input lag.
 
If you're looking for a TN panel for gaming, I would highly suggest considering one of the 120hz displays out now.

I haven't used any of the 24" versions so I can't comment on them, but I've read good things.


good luck with the purchase
 
Just cause you got it, that doesn't mean it's better... I've been pretty honest regarding my monitor, but all you did was praise that awful monitors of yours... keep mentioning that the OP wants a TN, yet F2380 is not a TN and even said that gaming performance is important, yet F2380 if pretty awful from this point of view.

Prad.de does professional reviews and it's one of the most trustworthy source when it comes to this subject. It's not just a random user with a simple opinion regarding that monitor, they're a group of professionals that proved to be quite capable at reviewing monitors in all those years, respected both by professionals and average yours for the quality of their reviews. As for Cnet, even they mentioned some of his weakest points yet their kinda soft on their reviews and even so, they rate it with 3.5 stars... They where impressed by his contrast (which seems to be the strongest point of this monitor and the only one worth mentioning) yet when closing their review, they recommended other model of Samsung, being cheaper and better then this.

And I find the same opinions almost everywhere I look (except here, in this topic), even on a local forum:
Panel: C-PVA (a.k.a. cheap-PVA)
Rezolutie: 1920x1080 (Full HD), 16:9
Conectica: D-Sub (VGA), DVI-D, HDMI (Modelul fara M nu are HDMI si e cu aproape 10 euro mai ieftin)
Contrast: 2800:1 masurat (calibrat) - 10/10
Unghiuri de vizibilitate: 178/179 - 9/10
Timp de raspuns: 4/10 - response time
Input lag: 8/10 (foarte bine pentru un PVA)
Uniformitate: 8/10
Culori (subiectiv): 8/10
Balansul culorilor: 5/10 - color balance
Ergonomie: 7/10 - Meniul e putin ne-intuitiv, iar butoanele si textul de deasupra lor nu prea sunt vizibile.
Design: 9/10 - Simplu, margini inguste, calitate destul de buna.
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Samsung F2380 Ghosting

F2380MX - color spreading

Samsung F2380 Image Crush on Video

In the first synthetic tests, we encountered every ambitious gamer’s nightmare: streaking – streaking that is not to be seen to this extent in today’s LCDs. Especially in darker hues, they are very visible: when moving windows, in particular scenes or games, even when scrolling through screen content. It is noticeable that almost no streaking can be seen when changing from various bright to dark hues. Only when changing between two different dark hues does the problem appear particularly strongly
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In most shooting games, on the other hand, streaking hardly appears. It is a problem in dark passages. There is also the undifferentiated display of dark hues, through which passage through a dark cave or a tunnel comes close to a blind walk.


Like most models without a HDMI input, the F2380 is also incapable of displaying YcbCr material and therefore displays it in incorrect colours. For the playback of RGB via DVI, the Samsung F2380 assumes PC level. If video format is played back, the signal should be converted to PC level in advance in order to ensure ideal display of black and white.


Our test of the Samsung F2380 led to an extremely ambiguous result. The manufacturing quality of the exterior is very praiseworthy, especially regarding the use of the buttons and the extensive office functions: with pivot and rotating functions, the F2380 triumphs in this sector. The input lag, which is very low for a VA panel, is also convincing, allowing for direct controls without any lag. On the other hand, gamers will still have to turn to TN panel models or CRTs because of the high response time and the streaking associated with it.

Fans of quiet EDV equipment will feel irritated by the omnipresent humming of the backlight inverter. The Samsung F2380 only truly offers an alternative for office users who value good viewing angle independence with an eye to the budget.
Click to expand...

And it's not even 30 pages to be more exact, it's more like 30 Subjects ( like Responsiveness, Image Quality, OSD, Input Lag, DVD and VIDEO, etc...) which cover most interests about a monitor, useful for both graphic designers and gamers or general users.
 
WinstonThePartyMan said:
Because the NEC is not superior for gaming, it handles motion worse than the F2380 (both perform similarly to a "5ms" TN but the F2380 IS better), and the Dell 2209 has weak contrast and black depth, THE OP was specifically looking at TN panels.
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Oh really?
prad.de F2380
Suitable for occasional gamer: +/-
Suitable for hardcore gamer: -
Nec EA231:
Suitable for occasional gamer: ++
Suitable for hardcore gamer: +/-
Dell:
Suitable for occasional gamer: +
Suitable for hardcore gamer: +/-

So could you please stop spreading bullshit?

More so my friend is unfortunate victim of F2380 because some "smart guy" was advising it on forums because it has amazing contrast- and yet this piece of shit is completly useless for any darker tones based games like DoD - he wasn't able to fight in dark passages and tunels due to gray tones merging into black.that are perfectly visible on cheapest TN.
 
WinstonThePartyMan said:
Because the NEC is not superior for gaming, it handles motion worse than the F2380
Click to expand...
No, it doesn't. You've never seen the NEC if you're saying crap like this. The F2380 is significantly worse.
 
I'm reading this thread because I want to buy a monitor for a bedroom pc so mainly TV/movies perhaps some gaming.
You guys are certainly adamant that your own monitor is the best choice but I (and probably the op) are left none the wiser.
And then there's the IPS/PVA/TN argument. I'm sat in front of a Dell 2408WFP and if I could afford another one of those I wouldn't be reading this.
I can't so it's a straight fight between the NEC and a 24" Samsung as far as I can see.
I'm drawn to the SM2494HM which I imagine is the same panel as the 2450.
My reading of the Prad review on the 2450 was that they thought it was good but were put off by the looks and lack of ergo.

I agree the NEC looks great but the screen size is considerably smaller and I'm going to be viewing at a distance. Also the extra few bucks on the NEC might be a waste for similar reasons.
There are lots of nice 23" models, the Dell SP2309W looks very interesting, but they all seem a bit small for my needs.
It is a really tough choice especially if you have no specific needs eg photographic work or hard core gaming.
Hey ho, John;)
 
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