Buy nexus one now or wait for Gingerbread capable devices?

[Greenstuffs]

Hi i currently have a mytouch 3g and a touch pro 2 both unlocked but wondering if i should get a nexus one or wait for the next wave of devices this Q4 i know nexus one is a good chunk of cash and if i get that i'd probably be keeping it for 2 yrs. Any ideas? thx

 

[pwrusr]

wait... if you're going to keep the phone for that long def wait. the mt3g should hold you over until a good phone hits the market q4. only a few months away

 

[mobusta1]

What are some of the phones that are coming out in q4 anyways?

 

[TexUs]

What are some of the phones that are coming out in q4 anyways?

TMobile is getting a dual core 800MHz device of some sort, rumored to run Gingerbread.

Motorola is probably going to make the Nexus Two, probably with a 2Ghz processor and Gingerbread as well.

Other than that info we really don't know.

Battery tech hasn't advanced as quickly as other tech, we're already at the limit of acceptable battery power. You increase the draw on it significantly with a 2Ghz device or a dual core device... So I think the battery life on those devices will suck IMO, battery tech hasn't advanced quick enough.

OP I'd personally look at the Galaxy S devices. Only advantage to the N1 at this point is the quicker software upgrades IMO.

 

[kllrnohj]

Battery tech hasn't advanced as quickly as other tech, we're already at the limit of acceptable battery power. You increase the draw on it significantly with a 2Ghz device or a dual core device... So I think the battery life on those devices will suck IMO, battery tech hasn't advanced quick enough.

Not really. First, they are going to be built on a smaller process, and power usage from them will probably be close to the same if not less than the current Snapdragon/CortexA8. Second, the CPU uses the least amount of power in a cell phone to begin with - it probably uses less than 10% of your daily power usage. The big drains come from the screen, active cell connection, and idle cell connection - and god help you if you are in an area with a weak signal, then your phone is going to ramp up the cell power like crazy to try and get a connection and you can kiss your battery life goodbye.

 

[TexUs]

Not really. First, they are going to be built on a smaller process, and power usage from them will probably be close to the same if not less than the current Snapdragon/CortexA8.

Speculation. I'll believe it when I see it.

Second, the CPU uses the least amount of power in a cell phone to begin with - it probably uses less than 10% of your daily power usage. The big drains come from the screen, active cell connection, and idle cell connection - and god help you if you are in an area with a weak signal, then your phone is going to ramp up the cell power like crazy to try and get a connection and you can kiss your battery life goodbye.

What, exactly, do you think is running all of that?

 

[tmoney2007]

What, exactly, do you think is running all of that?

The screen and the radio?

 

[CopyCat]

Motorola is probably going to make the Nexus Two, probably with a 2Ghz processor and Gingerbread as well.

While Motorola may be building this device, I don't think Google will be selling them directly as it has in the past anymore and there is probably a good chance that they won't be making anymore "Nexus" devices and just let the makers do their thing

 

[tmoney2007]

If moto made the nexus 2 or something like it, it would have to be a dev phone... and the rightful heir to the droid throne...

 

[FadedSpark]

The screen and the radio?

I think his point is that the CPU is the 100% constant power draw. It and the RAM are ALWAYS doing something.

Your point on the cell radio still stands though... Low coverage = miserable battery life....

This is why I love Canada... Our cell providers all woke up, got their shit together and built good networks

3-4 bars (Android, I only use 4 ) at my cottage while tethered... Oh joy.

Also, the rumors about gingerbread not running on "Low end" hardware are BS. I've posted a link before from (I think it was.) Androids chief device experience officer or something like that, and he debunked it personally...

Only limiting factor will be that naturally, old devices will run it slower IF it fits on the ROM. For example, 2.2 doesnt fit on the G1/Dream without epic cut backs.

 

[TexUs]

While Motorola may be building this device, I don't think Google will be selling them directly as it has in the past anymore and there is probably a good chance that they won't be making anymore "Nexus" devices and just let the makers do their thing

I agree. Google backed off from the direct-to-consumer thing almost as soon as they released it.

Which means we probably won't see anymore direct Android updates like we've got on the Nexus One.

I think his point is that the CPU is the 100% constant power draw. It and the RAM are ALWAYS doing something.

Exactly my point.

 

[kllrnohj]

I think his point is that the CPU is the 100% constant power draw. It and the RAM are ALWAYS doing something.

Exactly my point.

Well, good thing it doesn't work like that at all

1) Mobile CPUs do frequency scaling just like desktop and laptop ones do. A 1ghz snapdragon is rarely actually running at 1ghz, and will downclock to ~250mhz when the CPU isn't needed. This is near-instant and the CPU is constantly downclocking whenever there is a break in its workload.

2) Just like desktop CPUs, mobile CPUs have idle power states. Android suspends the CPU pretty much whenever the screen is off (exceptions being if something has a CPU lock - such as the music player).

So no, the CPU isn't a constant power use, nowhere near it. Which, again, is why it only uses ~10% of the battery, give or take (it uses about 10% on my OC'd droid during the course of a day - obviously results can vary greatly). You can check this on your own device if you wish. Go to Settings->About Phone->Battery Use.

 

[FadedSpark]

Well, good thing it doesn't work like that at all

1) Mobile CPUs do frequency scaling just like desktop and laptop ones do. A 1ghz snapdragon is rarely actually running at 1ghz, and will downclock to ~250mhz when the CPU isn't needed. This is near-instant and the CPU is constantly downclocking whenever there is a break in its workload.

2) Just like desktop CPUs, mobile CPUs have idle power states. Android suspends the CPU pretty much whenever the screen is off (exceptions being if something has a CPU lock - such as the music player).

So no, the CPU isn't a constant power use, nowhere near it. Which, again, is why it only uses ~10% of the battery, give or take (it uses about 10% on my OC'd droid during the course of a day - obviously results can vary greatly). You can check this on your own device if you wish. Go to Settings->About Phone->Battery Use.

I'm not oblivious to the fact my CPU runs at 250mhz any time I'm not doing something with it, but it doesn't take much for it to scale back up. Swiping a screen does it. Running anything in the background does it.

The CPU is not a Constant RATE of power draw but it is ALWAYS drawing power is what I meant in the sense of constant, as in always there. Sometimes it's more, sometimes it is less, but increasing that rate of power draw by using more hungry processor will have a big effect on battery. I don't know about you, but my phone is always got something going on... Facebook updating in the background, 2 push email accounts, Meebo running in the background, and weather? I still manage a day and a bit of battery life because I watch my usage JUST enough to manage it.

A bigger CPU wouldn't do me very good in terms of that battery life with the way android scales speeds.

 

[TexUs]

Sometimes it's more, sometimes it is less, but increasing that rate of power draw by using more hungry processor will have a big effect on battery.

Exactly.

We're literally at the edge of acceptable battery life. The iPhone with moderate use will gain you a day, likewise on about anything. If you actually USE them, it gets worse. So we're right on the edge.
Adding anything that impacts that farther than that is bad news, at least until battery tech improves.

 

[CVNet1]

Speaking of next generation phone, does anyone know of an upcoming android phone running on the tegra2 platform? I have read that this SOC is designed for tablets and that a low power version will be used to run smartphones, and Nvidia seems to claim they have some smartphone makers working on developing phones on this platform for release in Q4.

Basically, I just wish someone had more concrete information about who is developing a phone, what phone OS it will use, and what networks it will work with.

My main reasons for being interested in a Tegra2 phone is that I want a phone based on the ARM9 core (dual core is even better), the 1080p capable video processor is highly desireable (obviously I would want an HDMI port or other HD video output somewhere on the phone device).

Or is there another SOC option for smartphones being used that is comparable to the specs and performance provided by the Tegra2 chip?

 

[kllrnohj]

Exactly.

We're literally at the edge of acceptable battery life. The iPhone with moderate use will gain you a day, likewise on about anything. If you actually USE them, it gets worse. So we're right on the edge.
Adding anything that impacts that farther than that is bad news, at least until battery tech improves.

They do make higher capacity batteries. And I've been using smartphones for several years now, battery life has more or less remained constant despite screen sizes more than doubling and CPU power skyrocketing. The only "edge" we are on is one of even more awesome phones that are even faster.

And both of you are still ignoring the fact that when the phone goes idle, the CPU is essentially off - it gets suspended. Likewise, just as fast as the clock speed increases is how fast it will decrease as well. The idea is to hurry up and sleep.

I'm not oblivious to the fact my CPU runs at 250mhz any time I'm not doing something with it, but it doesn't take much for it to scale back up. Swiping a screen does it. Running anything in the background does it.

The CPU is not a Constant RATE of power draw but it is ALWAYS drawing power is what I meant in the sense of constant, as in always there. Sometimes it's more, sometimes it is less, but increasing that rate of power draw by using more hungry processor will have a big effect on battery. I don't know about you, but my phone is always got something going on... Facebook updating in the background, 2 push email accounts, Meebo running in the background, and weather? I still manage a day and a bit of battery life because I watch my usage JUST enough to manage it.

A bigger CPU wouldn't do me very good in terms of that battery life with the way android scales speeds.

Again, the CPU isn't the power hog in a smartphone. All those background updates that drain your battery? CPU usage isn't the culprit, not even close - it's the radio. All those things "running" in the background aren't using much CPU at all. If the CPU used 10 times as much power your battery life would barely decrease, because for all that the CPU is idle. Your radio, on the other hand, is working it's ass off - that is what is guzzling your battery. Likewise, if you have wifi on, that puppy will burn battery like crazy.

So no, increasing the rate of power draw by using a more hungry processor won't have a big effect on battery. This is also supported by all the people who have not just overclocked their Droid, but also increased the voltage (which causes a *huge* increase in CPU power usage) - the battery will still easily get you through the day. But again, you can look at the raw numbers yourself - Android tracks all that. Just go to Settings->About->Battery Use.

 

[Senryo]

Again, the CPU isn't the power hog in a smartphone. All those background updates that drain your battery? CPU usage isn't the culprit, not even close - it's the radio. All those things "running" in the background aren't using much CPU at all. If the CPU used 10 times as much power your battery life would barely decrease, because for all that the CPU is idle. Your radio, on the other hand, is working it's ass off - that is what is guzzling your battery. Likewise, if you have wifi on, that puppy will burn battery like crazy.

So no, increasing the rate of power draw by using a more hungry processor won't have a big effect on battery. This is also supported by all the people who have not just overclocked their Droid, but also increased the voltage (which causes a *huge* increase in CPU power usage) - the battery will still easily get you through the day. But again, you can look at the raw numbers yourself - Android tracks all that. Just go to Settings->About->Battery Use.

Or you could do an experiment: Find a burn-in app for the CPU and RAM. Get the Phone fully charged. Do something that runs the battery like crazy over radio: I.E. Download a lot, talk on the phone a lot, or something where you're transmitting and receiving a lot of data with a preferred method that relies more on transferring data than processing data. While you're doing that, record how long your battery lasts over that transmission-intensive period. Next, charge the battery full again. Disable all wifi/radio/3g, then set the burn-in app to run for the amount of time the previous test took. If you still have a significant amount of battery life after your burn-in finishes, then the answer is obvious.

Food for thought: why do you think talk time on a mobile phone has always so drastically different than idle time?

 

[FadedSpark]

They do make higher capacity batteries. And I've been using smartphones for several years now, battery life has more or less remained constant despite screen sizes more than doubling and CPU power skyrocketing. The only "edge" we are on is one of even more awesome phones that are even faster.

And both of you are still ignoring the fact that when the phone goes idle, the CPU is essentially off - it gets suspended. Likewise, just as fast as the clock speed increases is how fast it will decrease as well. The idea is to hurry up and sleep.



Again, the CPU isn't the power hog in a smartphone. All those background updates that drain your battery? CPU usage isn't the culprit, not even close - it's the radio. All those things "running" in the background aren't using much CPU at all. If the CPU used 10 times as much power your battery life would barely decrease, because for all that the CPU is idle. Your radio, on the other hand, is working it's ass off - that is what is guzzling your battery. Likewise, if you have wifi on, that puppy will burn battery like crazy.

So no, increasing the rate of power draw by using a more hungry processor won't have a big effect on battery. This is also supported by all the people who have not just overclocked their Droid, but also increased the voltage (which causes a *huge* increase in CPU power usage) - the battery will still easily get you through the day. But again, you can look at the raw numbers yourself - Android tracks all that. Just go to Settings->About->Battery Use.

I seriously question how much of a heavy smartphone user you are...

On a working day, i wake up, FIRST THING is shut off my alarm.
Second, is get dressed
Third is walk out the door while my phone plays music for me over slacker. Which slows the entire phone down if not using the overclocked kernel-patch, and uses date if not caching stations, EITHER WAY, it drains my battery about 20% in the 40m it takes me to work, whether LIVE STREAMING or using CACHED songs (I'm Not yelling, I'm bolding to make note that I've done both, for clarity. )

So once I arrive at work, I turn Wi Fi on, connect to the store's internet, and leave that on all day. At this point I connect MSN and leave it in the background, my emails I never need to touch as they come in on there own, and I start working.

Part of my job pretty much requires I have a smart phone, I sell phones, I need a nice cell phone. Good for me, Good for the store, Good for customers who are sick of being able to see but not touch, so through the course of any day, I'm checking my phone constantly for neat new things, demoing applications, youtube, Everything.

Over WiFi, because it uses WAY less power than 3G. Without WiFi, End of day, my battery life is about 40%. With, My battery life stays near 60 after being connected to the store 100% of the time (9-10 hour work days, just FYI. Total time out = 13 Hours give or take. ) Which brings me back to slacker.

Trip home, another hour on a bus, and I've got Slacker going again, full volume, screen off, 3G streaming (Always stream on the way home... The music has more variety when I'm trying to unwind. ) Annnnnnd We're down to 40-30% (30 if my coworker who drops me off at the mall closer to home isn;t working )

And that is my day in battery life. Occasionally it's more if I actually care to bring my MP3 player (And by more I mean 60%ish which is enough that I could go an entire day without charging and be fine. )

As a note,

Screen brightness = 100%
CPU = 1ghz @ 1.4v I think (I forget the math... Silly milestone. )
Auto-Off = 15s
Taskiller MANUALLY to kill the music process after I unplug my headphones and it starts playing music
HSPA/WiFi ONLY, there is NO edge network for telus. At all.
Signal strength is always 3-4 bars, never really any lower. So my radio doesn't waste time searching for signals alllll day.

I'm on vacation, so my power usage is skewed a LOT (Tethering out the butt.)

Cell idle =49% right now XD That I know is wrong.

 

[BGK]

^^^Have you checked your battery use to see how much the CPU is using?

 

[XMonkey-v2.0]

I don't get the topic... if the rumored min. specs are true for Gingerbread, then the N1 is capable and would also probably be one of the first phones to get it...

 

[TexUs]

I don't get the topic... if the rumored min. specs are true for Gingerbread, then the N1 is capable and would also probably be one of the first phones to get it...

The rumored specs aren't true, which probably means the rumored specs are probably a bit high...

And yes, N1 is getting the first of everything. Nothing else is running 2.2 right now, either.

 

[pwrusr]

The rumored specs aren't true, which probably means the rumored specs are probably a bit high...

And yes, N1 is getting the first of everything. Nothing else is running 2.2 right now, either.

My rooted moto droid is running it just fine
The official OTA should soon be hitting moto droids as well.

 

[Wrench]

I don't get the topic... if the rumored min. specs are true for Gingerbread, then the N1 is capable and would also probably be one of the first phones to get it...

If the Nexus 1 is THE Dev phone. It's not too far of a stretch to assume that Gingerbread is being devloped on the Nexus 1 as we speak. The N1 should be more than capable of running it as well as the first phone to recieve it. Makes the most sense to me.

 

[kllrnohj]

I seriously question how much of a heavy smartphone user you are...

On a working day, i wake up, FIRST THING is shut off my alarm.
Second, is get dressed
Third is walk out the door while my phone plays music for me over slacker. Which slows the entire phone down if not using the overclocked kernel-patch, and uses date if not caching stations, EITHER WAY, it drains my battery about 20% in the 40m it takes me to work, whether LIVE STREAMING or using CACHED songs (I'm Not yelling, I'm bolding to make note that I've done both, for clarity. )

So once I arrive at work, I turn Wi Fi on, connect to the store's internet, and leave that on all day. At this point I connect MSN and leave it in the background, my emails I never need to touch as they come in on there own, and I start working.

Part of my job pretty much requires I have a smart phone, I sell phones, I need a nice cell phone. Good for me, Good for the store, Good for customers who are sick of being able to see but not touch, so through the course of any day, I'm checking my phone constantly for neat new things, demoing applications, youtube, Everything.

Over WiFi, because it uses WAY less power than 3G. Without WiFi, End of day, my battery life is about 40%. With, My battery life stays near 60 after being connected to the store 100% of the time (9-10 hour work days, just FYI. Total time out = 13 Hours give or take. ) Which brings me back to slacker.

Trip home, another hour on a bus, and I've got Slacker going again, full volume, screen off, 3G streaming (Always stream on the way home... The music has more variety when I'm trying to unwind. ) Annnnnnd We're down to 40-30% (30 if my coworker who drops me off at the mall closer to home isn;t working )

And that is my day in battery life. Occasionally it's more if I actually care to bring my MP3 player (And by more I mean 60%ish which is enough that I could go an entire day without charging and be fine. )

As a note,

Screen brightness = 100%
CPU = 1ghz @ 1.4v I think (I forget the math... Silly milestone. )
Auto-Off = 15s
Taskiller MANUALLY to kill the music process after I unplug my headphones and it starts playing music
HSPA/WiFi ONLY, there is NO edge network for telus. At all.
Signal strength is always 3-4 bars, never really any lower. So my radio doesn't waste time searching for signals alllll day.

I'm on vacation, so my power usage is skewed a LOT (Tethering out the butt.)

Cell idle =49% right now XD That I know is wrong.

I'm not really sure what you are trying to say? It sounds like you are disagreeing with me, but your day to day routine supports exactly what I've been saying. You have an OC'd CPU (and over volted I think), and your battery life still isn't any worse than the stock phone. The things you are doing that are guzzling your battery are the 100% screen brightness, wifi, and radio. As you said, you gained 20% battery life by using wifi for heavy data rather than 3g, that supports my claims that it isn't the CPU draining power in smartphones.