Does AMD have an answer for Conroe?

Blazin Trav said:
Actually the only thing the x1900 series has going for it is HDR, that's it. Crossfire is no where near as good as SLI, read [H]'s article on this for more info.

I guarantee your switch to a company for a year doesn't make that big of an impact... besides, AMD and Intel watch each other and I'm sure they study each other's technology, hence why Intel is going with an integraded memory controller with the Core processors.
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The x1900 has a superior feature-set (HDR+AA, high quality AF.. better image quality) and it has about the same FPS that the 7900GTX offers.

If enough people leave AMD and go with Intel, that should send AMD a clear message. Look at Nvidia and ATI. Nvidia enjoyed success as the dominate video-card company for awhile, until ati released the 9800.Nvidia fan-boys were jumping ship, and the Geforce 5 series was left in the dust.

A loss in profit motivated Nvidia to release the 6 series cards; A declining market share compelled Nvidia to be innovative (by making modern SLI, incorperating S.M 3, ect ect).
 
dagon11985 said:
The x1900 has a superior feature-set (HDR+AA, high quality AF.. better image quality) and it has about the same FPS that the 7900GTX offers.

If enough people leave AMD and go with Intel, that should send AMD a clear message. Look at Nvidia and ATI. Nvidia enjoyed success as the dominate video-card company for awhile, until ati released the 9800.Nvidia fan-boys were jumping ship, and the Geforce 5 series was left in the dust.

A loss in profit motivated Nvidia to release the 6 series cards; A declining market share compelled Nvidia to be innovative (by making modern SLI, incorperating S.M 3, ect ect).
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The problem with that is the "better image quality" card has been used so often and is such a subjective issue.

OpenEXR HDR FP16 + MSAA is nice to have, and probably the only feature I truly appreciate, Angle Independent AF has not been shown to have considerably better image quality, it really depends on the game if that feature is noticable as having a difference.

There are also downwisdes to having all these features, the 7900 GTX consumes 84W of energy, while the X1900 XTX rests at 120W, so you pay a price in energy consumption, not only that to achieve this level of "features" their die size is enormous at 352mm2, so for ATI this is an expensive to produce product, not a clean victory and it's a debatable issue.

This generation while they lack some on the feature front, they are very effective in the more mainstream price points, the 7900 GT consumes only 48W of energy while it's competitor X1900 GT consumes 75W, as well the X1900 GT is slower overall in comparison to 7900 GT. The X1800 XT while faster i say over a stock 7900 GT consumes even more energy at 103W, not to mention being atrociosuly mroe expensive to make with high grade 1.2ns GDDR3, as well as 512Mb not to mention a large 288mm2 die.

Another one is the 7600 GT vs X1800 GTO, while the 7600 GT consumes a mere 35W, the X1800 GTO consumes 48W identical to the 7900 GT thermals. Their performance is fairly identical as well. Not to mention the cost of a 256Bit PCB, and R520 die.

Also many of Nvidia partners are Factory Overclocked and come with a nice Lifetime Warranty, can't say too much on that front on ATI, I beleive PowerColor is the only AIB partner that has Lifetime Warranties.

Geforce 7 vs Radeon X1 has points for both.

Radeon X1

Somewhat more feature rich, high power consumption, good pricing depending on sector, expensive to produce, fair warranties, mainly stock products, poorer production costs

Geforce 7

Somewhat less feature rich, low power consumption, good pricing depending on sector, cheaper to make, good warranties, factory overclocked products, good mainstream products, better production costs
 
BoogerBomb said:
On-die memory controller isnt worth it. Having to upgrade CPU and mobo everytime just because of memory is just way too expensive for us consumers. Put it back on the motherboard and not the CPU.
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I would perhaps rethink this train of thought.
it is more econimical the way amd has been doing it for years
 
1) who gives a rats about power consumption from a top end video card? :rolleyes: I sure as hell don't. Face it homes the X1900XTX is the better card.

2) I severely doubt AMD will be releasing the K8 a year + from now. The "rumor" is that the K8L AM3 version will not be out by then. Moreover AMD has already stated that AM2 processors will work on AM3 boards.

3) If you think AMD will not put up a damn good fight against Intel (and their amazing new processor) think again. AMD has not trounced Intel these past years for nothing you know. This competition is just what the processing world needed and I for one am tickled pink. Whether you're draped in Blue or Green it really does not matter because we all benifit.
 
|CR|Constantine said:
1) who gives a rats about power consumption from a top end video card? :rolleyes: I sure as hell don't. Face it homes the X1900XTX is the better card.
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I do.
|CR|Constantine said:
3) If you think AMD will not put up a damn good fight against Intel (and their amazing new processor) think again. AMD has not trounced Intel these past years for nothing you know. This competition is just what the processing world needed and I for one am tickled pink. Whether your draped in Blue or Green it really does not matter because we all benefit.
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indeed. I am sure that AMD will try its (their) best to stay in the game. Why should they not?
 
|CR|Constantine said:
1) who gives a rats about power consumption from a top end video card? :rolleyes: I sure as hell don't. Face it homes the X1900XTX is the better card.

2) I severely doubt AMD will be releasing the K8 a year + from now. The "rumor" is that the K8L AM3 version will not be out by then. Moreover AMD has already stated that AM2 processors will work on AM3 boards.

3) If you think AMD will not put up a damn good fight against Intel (and their amazing new processor) think again. AMD has not trounced Intel these past years for nothing you know. This competition is just what the processing world needed and I for one am tickled pink. Whether you're draped in Blue or Green it really does not matter because we all benifit.
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1) Rofl, funny just because you don't care about power conumsption on a top end video card doesn't mean others won't. And I will you your line of reasoning
rolleyes.gif
, face it the X1900 XTX is ONLY an arguably a better card, it wins some areas, but not overall.

2,3 ), No there is heavy indication currently that will AMD will lack the performance crown for desktop for the rest of 2006, and likely the majority of 2007. Simply shrinking Windsor and ramping up clock frequency to 3.0GHZ won't work.

K8L is only slated for Servers in Mid 2007, that doesn't matter for the majority of consumers here, it won't be till quite some time further where a K8L will be launched on desktop. They will still be on K8 on the desktop even a year from now.
 
coldpower27 said:
K8L is only slated for Servers in Mid 2007
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Sources?

Because AMD (you know, the manufacturer) doesn't say that. AMD schedule K8L for servers and desktop in mid 2007. Look at last (June 2006) AMD Analyst Day slides. This is the only official source as far as I know right now, isn't it?
 
Arvidas said:
Sources?

Because AMD (you know, the manufacturer) doesn't say that. AMD schedule K8L for servers and desktop in mid 2007. Look at last (June 2006) AMD Analyst Day slides. This is the only official source as far as I know right now, isn't it?
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Check the wording then, AMD's hasn't said they will have K8L in both servers and desktops in Mid 2007.

All we know for sure is that K8L is coming for 2007, but not necessarily for all sectors.
 
Arvidas said:
Sources?

Because AMD (you know, the manufacturer) doesn't say that. AMD schedule K8L for servers and desktop in mid 2007. Look at last (June 2006) AMD Analyst Day slides. This is the only official source as far as I know right now, isn't it?
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As of a month ago (10 days after Tech Analyst Day), the K8L is not on the desktop roadmap through Q3'07: http://images.dailytech.com/nimage/2008_large_amd_q307.jpg

The tech analyst day slide 12 here shows "Quad-Core" under "Server/Desktop" for "Mid-2007 Introduction".

The discrepency may be for different reasons: 1) there is not a scheduled date for the desktop AM2 version yet or 2) single socket F boards may be designated as initial "desktop" K8L boards (unlikely). It should become a lot more clear when board makers start advertising that AM2 boards are K8L compatible. Some Conroe board makers are already claiming quad core compatibility, but Kentsfield is a lot closer to release than K8L.
 
did you even read that pdf you posted? it says quadcore for server, dual core for desktop mid 2007 and above that all it says new architecture for desktop and servers mid 2007
 
moon02 said:
did you even read that pdf you posted? it says quadcore for server, dual core for desktop mid 2007 and above that all it says new architecture for desktop and servers mid 2007
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Read it again. The sections says "Server/Desktop" and beneath it says "Quad-Core" exactly like I said. :p

I highlighted it for you in case you missed it last time:
picture0ck.png


But the K8L does not appear on the desktop roadmap. I still think the K8L will appear first for servers, just like the original Opteron and first dual core Opteron came out before desktop versions. The time between the dual core chip versions was shorter than between the original Opteron and A64 CPUs.
 
pxc said:
As of a month ago (10 days after Tech Analyst Day), the K8L is not on the desktop roadmap through Q3'07: http://images.dailytech.com/nimage/2008_large_amd_q307.jpg

The tech analyst day slide 12 here shows "Quad-Core" under "Server/Desktop" for "Mid-2007 Introduction".

The discrepency may be for different reasons: 1) there is not a scheduled date for the desktop AM2 version yet or 2) single socket F boards may be designated as initial "desktop" K8L boards (unlikely). It should become a lot more clear when board makers start advertising that AM2 boards are K8L compatible. Some Conroe board makers are already claiming quad core compatibility, but Kentsfield is a lot closer to release than K8L.
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And 3) The dailytech roadmap doesn't come from AMD ;)

The situation is very clear. The only official and direct source we have about K8L are slides from AMD Analyst Day. And they clearly state that K8L will be launched for both (server and desktop) in mid 2007. End of story.
 
Arvidas said:
And 3) The dailytech roadmap doesn't come from AMD ;)

The situation is very clear. The only official and direct source we have about K8L are slides from AMD Analyst Day. And they clearly state that K8L will be launched for both (server and desktop) in mid 2007. End of story.
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QFT.

http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/content_type/DownloadableAssets/PhilHesterAMDAnalystDayV2.pdf
Slide 32 is titled: "Technologies Roadmap: Desktop"
The 2007 column lists: "Next-generation Core"

Stop the FUD. Who are you going to trust? The news comming from AMD's mouth, or some lame-ass telephone game through at least three companies across at least two languages? K8L on the desktop in 2007. End of story.
 
Arvidas said:
And 3) The dailytech roadmap doesn't come from AMD ;)
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Why do you think that? The dailytech link I posted has processors and schedules listed from the latest "AMD Confidential Roadmap". Some sites publish the graphic that AMD provides (i haven't seen one published publicly recently), but that's a big no-no.

The data comes from AMD, but the format of the chart does not. You will not get "official" AMD Confidential Roadmaps "direct"ly from AMD, that's why it's called confidential. But that is what AMD provides to manufacturers planning mid-term product development.

---
Read what I posted above, vis. I said the lack of the K8L on the desktop may be because it doesn't have a release date set yet. Unlike you do in the Intel forum, I don't spread FUD. I posted AMD TAD'06 slide and a site that posted AMD's confidential roadmap. No inquirer was involved and speculation was clearly labeled as "(unlikely)". :rolleyes:

/sheesh, can't battle wishful thinking around here
 
pxc said:
Unlike you do in the Intel forum, I don't spread FUD.
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I think the main difference here is that in the past I suggested Intel might slip by around a month. The claims being made by many Intel fans here is that AMD will slip the K8L introduction by about a year :rolleyes: My claim was around 12 times more reasonable.
 
visaris said:
I think the main difference here is that in the past I suggested Intel might slip by around a month. The claims being made by many Intel fans here is that AMD will slip the K8L introduction by about a year :rolleyes: My claim was around 12 times more reasonable.
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It already slipped 6 months , what's another 6 ? ;)

And the funny part is that in such complex projects if something goes wrong throwing people and resources at it ussually don't make a difference , sometimes even the opposite happens.

9 women won't make a baby in a month...
 
savantu said:
It already slipped 6 months , what's another 6 ? ;)

And the funny part is that in such complex projects if something goes wrong throwing people and resources at it ussually don't make a difference , sometimes even the opposite happens.

9 women won't make a baby in a month...
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Yeah but it should be a lot of fun trying help 9 women make a baby in one month, that's at least 3 times each:)

It's also funny how the same site can be a good and a bad source.

http://www.digitimes.com/mobos/a20060710A1001.html

No AMD K8L processors until 2008, say sources
 
visaris said:
I think the main difference here is that in the past I suggested Intel might slip by around a month. The claims being made by many Intel fans here is that AMD will slip the K8L introduction by about a year :rolleyes: My claim was around 12 times more reasonable.
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Add him to your sig. That'll really teach him a lesson about spreading fud.

As for K8L...I'll worry about what happens in 2007 in 2007.
 
Arvidas said:
No AMD K8L AM3 processors until 2008, say sources
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There is no difference between the AM2 and AM3 K8L apparently.

And you missed this

....
While AMD is expected to not make any changes to the micro-architecture of its CPUs in the next 18 months or even longer, Intel is ready to bring up a strong campaign based on its new Core Micro architecture, noted the sources. In order to compete with Intel, AMD cannot do anything but cut prices for its current lineup of CPUs, a move that will eventually undermine its profitability, the sources indicated.
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It is pretty obvious that K8L be it for AM2 or AM3 platform is a Q4 2007 or 2008 part.
 
Just out of curiosity, any one following this thread notice the announcement on the front page yesterday about real world game testing comming soon comparing AM2 and core (conroe)? Along with the comments that, simply stated, the real world results are quite different from the canned benchmark results?
 
thedude42 said:
Just out of curiosity, any one following this thread notice the announcement on the front page yesterday about real world game testing comming soon comparing AM2 and core (conroe)? Along with the comments that, simply stated, the real world results are quite different from the canned benchmark results?
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Yeah, I saw that. What does it mean? Here is my guess:

Decent Conroe and AM2 CPUs are GPU limited in real world situations. It doesn't matter which one you buy for real world useage; you should spend your money on a graphics card instead.
 
visaris said:
Yeah, I saw that. What does it mean? Here is my guess:

Decent Conroe and AM2 CPUs are GPU limited in real world situations. It doesn't matter which one you buy for real world useage; you should spend your money on a graphics card instead.
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I'm afraid that has always been the case for gaming. A faster video card is always going to make a much large difference in gaming then a CPU upgrade. Conroe will definitely provide a lift in CPU intensive games like Oblivion i would say though. You have to test truly CPU intensive games to get any kind of real feel for a difference in CPU power. If they start testing games like FEAR and BF2 then no duh.
 
visaris said:
Yeah, I saw that. What does it mean? Here is my guess:

Decent Conroe and AM2 CPUs are GPU limited in real world situations. It doesn't matter which one you buy for real world useage; you should spend your money on a graphics card instead.
Click to expand...

Then get the crap kicked out of it once you stop playing games. If Games are the main use of anyone's computer, it's just as easy to waste money one ANY processor or Video Cards in SLI or CrossFire, may as well get a frackin' XBox! Otherwise, bee-yoching about Games being Graphics limited becomes another in a long line of excuses.
 
Donnie27 said:
Then get the crap kicked out of it once you stop playing games. If Games are the main use of anyone's computer, it's just as easy to waste money one ANY processor or Video Cards in SLI or CrossFire, may as well get a frackin' XBox! Otherwise, bee-yoching about Games being Graphics limited becomes another in a long line of excuses.
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You are such a troll. I made a comment about the Hard atricle which states:
Magic 8 Ball sez:
HUGE AMD processor price cuts are coming very soon. An answer to Intel’s soon-to-be released Core 2 processors? You betcha. Real world gameplay analysis of Core 2 vs. Athlon 64 coming very soon. Shows different results than canned benchmarks? You betcha.
Posted by Kyle 6:44 PM (CDT)
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I would link, but the page has been removed. The point is that I'm not defending any company or any product at all. I'm commenting about a HardOCP article that talks about "real world gameplay". Your comment, "Otherwise, bee-yoching about Games being Graphics limited becomes another in a long line of excuses.", is totally out of line and nothing but flamebait. I have made no excuse, and I certainly am not bitching about anything except you being an ass to me for no reason at all.
 
It's ok visaris, calm down buddy, I think you've pretty much been on spot with what you've been saying lately anyways.
 
Right, well, I'm lazy too, but if you're a regular reader of the [H] main page news then you might remember a scientific benchmark done about a month or so ago that shows, in fact, conroe exploits it's larger cache size for those canned benchmarks, not that it was designed specifically for that, but that it just so happens that the benchmarks take advantage of it.

Long story short, in these very non-gaming, heavy computational tests, the regular old 939 A64's were doing very well against conroe, and not getting the overwhelming trounce we saw in the Anand article, et al.

Now, I have zero credibility here since I am not going to go back and look for the link, but anyone here who remembers that article can vouch.

And as for the "might as well get an X box" comment.... yeah, uh, no. Wasting money on a high end system to play games?!?! Any analyst will tell you that gamming and multimedia is the biggest driving force behind hardware development. There are other forces, but the one that really hits home for the home desktop market is gamming and multimedia. SLI and crossfire would probably have not even been considered were it not for computer gamming.
 
"Different" doesn't necessarily mean better for AMD................................................

..............................................................................................................................................................
 
LstOfTheBrunnenG said:
"Different" doesn't necessarily mean better for AMD................................................

..............................................................................................................................................................
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If you are referring to Kyle's post re the upcoming article Conroe Vs A64 for gaming, You should look at the context of what he's saying.

kyle said:
Magic 8 Ball sez:
HUGE AMD processor price cuts are coming very soon. An answer to Intel’s soon-to-be released Core 2 processors? You betcha. Real world gameplay analysis of Core 2 vs. Athlon 64 coming very soon. Shows different results than canned benchmarks? You betcha.
Posted by Kyle 6:44 PM (CDT)
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Kyle thinks price cuts are the answer, and from this, it looks like they may be the only one they need.

I don't care one way or the other, I'm just pointing out your overuse of e-penis ellipsis.
 
mwarps said:
If you are referring to Kyle's post re the upcoming article Conroe Vs A64 for gaming, You should look at the context of what he's saying.



Kyle thinks price cuts are the answer, and from this, it looks like they may be the only one they need.

I don't care one way or the other, I'm just pointing out your overuse of e-penis ellipsis.
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We will have to see won't we what happens, I am not sure if it's worth speculating over anyway considering the NDA will life at midgnight.

It's very common knowledge that system will perform identically in games if utlizing different processors with the same GPU subsystem, if the bottleneck is graphics rather then computational.
 
mwarps said:
I
Kyle thinks price cuts are the answer, and from this, it looks like they may be the only one they need.

I don't care one way or the other, I'm just pointing out your overuse of e-penis ellipsis.
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I don't know, I read "An answer" different than "The answer".

I honestly didn't blink reading the line, it's the one about the difference in real world vs canned benchmark that peaked my interest. But as no one has seen the article yet, this is all speculation (not to say it's uninformed or quite possibly in the right train of thought).
 
Arvidas said:
No AMD K8L AM3 processors until 2008, say sources
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http://www.overclockers.com/tips00993/

Déjà Vu All Over Again . . . "
Ed Stroligo - 7/11/06

Digitimes has reported, citing Taiwanese mobo sources, that K8L processors won't show up until 2008.

If true, this would be pretty bad news for AMD.

Some have pointed out that this couldn't be true because AMD told analysts as late as June 1 that K8L was due mid-2007.

The inference is "Surely AMD wouldn't tell technology analysts one thing, then change their plans shortly thereafter."

Unfortunately, for those of us with long memories, AMD has done just that in the past.
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I honestly have to say i've been an AMD guy, for multiple reasons. Not only have they [for the last few years] been producing the fastest processors, they were also the underdog while doing it. But now that conroe is coming out, and if all the benchmarks and tests are accurate, i'd switch to conroe in a heartbeat. When i upgrade, i'm not going by brand loyalty, because buying an AMD with conroe out would be a waste of money as well as letting AMD think they can skate by on an older architecture instead of rising up to beat intel once again. Competition = consumer wins!
 
Last year, I finally made the switch from Intel to AMD. I don't want to switch back anytime soon. My current PC should last me for another 4 years (with a few upgrades, such as getting a dual-core CPU, etc.). So hopefully by then, AMD will be faster or at least a better value for the $ than Intel. Otherwise I might just have to jump back to the Evil Empire. :eek:
 
Aeauvian12 said:
I honestly have to say i've been an AMD guy, for multiple reasons. Not only have they [for the last few years] been producing the fastest processors, they were also the underdog while doing it. But now that conroe is coming out, and if all the benchmarks and tests are accurate, i'd switch to conroe in a heartbeat. When i upgrade, i'm not going by brand loyalty, because buying an AMD with conroe out would be a waste of money as well as letting AMD think they can skate by on an older architecture instead of rising up to beat intel once again. Competition = consumer wins!
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AMD is not that small and are not much of an underdaog when they have the Germans and EU fronting them Money and Fabs? Now add New York state as well. Sorry, that little guy vs. the big old evil empire is a bunch of CRAP! :p
 
To me, I have been an AMD guy for a long time now & the ones that I have had out performed the Intel Pent. 4's that I have had the pleasure of owning as well. I just built a new rig a couple of months ago with an Opteron 165($327) & have it clocked 2,8Ghz. From my stand point, do I care if Conroe is going to give me 150fps. on my games opposed to 125fps from my current rig...absolutely not...The synthetic benchmarks are crap next to real world anyway & in the real world, I doubt that Conroe is just going to blow anyone's mind next to a 939 or AM2...
Just my opinion but, I have no desire to change my whole setup to "upgrade" to Conroe when things are so fast now anyway, are you really going to notice a big real world difference?
I'll stick with AMD....
 
+++DESTROYER+++ said:
To me, I have been an AMD guy for a long time now & the ones that I have had out performed the Intel Pent. 4's that I have had the pleasure of owning as well. I just built a new rig a couple of months ago with an Opteron 165($327) & have it clocked 2,8Ghz. From my stand point, do I care if Conroe is going to give me 150fps. on my games opposed to 125fps from my current rig...absolutely not...The synthetic benchmarks are crap next to real world anyway & in the real world, I doubt that Conroe is just going to blow anyone's mind next to a 939 or AM2...
Just my opinion but, I have no desire to change my whole setup to "upgrade" to Conroe when things are so fast now anyway, are you really going to notice a big real world difference?
I'll stick with AMD....
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Keep your Opteron, be happy with as long as it pleases you. Not only you, but any and everyone here shouldn't be trying to lessen, downplay, know something that's superior to what you have. It makes you look like a Fan. Your rig is nice, hell If I had it, all C2D would be is another piece of some to admire but no interest in buying. Your stuff is good enough=P

Here's two ways of looking at this;
1. There will always be something faster later.
2. The only thing sure to happen during a pissing Contest is that someone will get pissed on.

To avoid #2, never enter a pissin' contest.
 
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