Gamers Nexus vs LinusTechTips: Smackdown

HockeyJon said:
Unfortunately, that’s the business model though. If your incentive to make money is to pump out volume, then that’s what you’ll do. I’m not excusing it, I don’t even watch his channel, just going back to the old Charlie Munger adage of “show me the incentives and I’ll show you the outcome”. That can be a perfectly fine thing to do, mind you, provided your audience knows what they’re getting, but when it gets to the point that volume is so critical that you don’t even bother fixing mistakes at the editing level because it will slow down video production, that becomes a serious problem if you claim to be interested in being viewed as credible. From everything I have read so far, it sounds like that was the focus, which makes the result not that surprising. No kidding quality suffered, but the audience and advertisers kept coming back.
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It's the same in every media space. Just look at mainstream news and Hollywood. Quality and accuracy, sacrificed for quantity and being first to air.
 
Ebernanut said:
Thanks, I didn't watch that video.
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I watched both, Craft live. Both got details wrong. Key ones,they both glossed over. Both which slightly put Linus in a better light. I have lost respect for both,especially Craft,I thought he would report on this better. Boy was I,and he wrong. Great posts,you've got better ethics then most it would seem. Have a great weekend brother !
 
Journalistic freedom is very important and errors happen. Whether the choice to use alternative methods in the review can justify anything, (3090ti vs 4090) they are libel for the misinformation introduced into the agreement. Drawing a conclusion from erroneous data borders on malicious. There is a point where hamhands (linus) forces the ram in backwards, (correction it was the wrong ram) most likely this didn't cause any damage, but the chance of damage is there and the board should be tested with a control to alleviate that as a possibility. Nope -> full steam ahead, post it first, then fill it with water, and draw a poor conclusion.

They should brand Linus as "If he didn't break it, there is a chance it might work for you"
 
If half of what Madison and the other one say about Linus is true ,he,Linus has destroyed what little credibility he has left(Post 'apo;ogy' vid and the ensuing last few days.. The Reddit allegations,on the other hand may be vaporware. Madison though has evidence.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaMe9Bw6uL4

Linus,is cold AF. My last comment on this ever,and yes he should be forgotten in the dumpster bin,as some said a few pages back.
 
techie81 said:
If I were LTT I would not have published video(s) or responded in the way they did. I don't really think they did anything wrong (purposely, albeit some of it was sloppy.) and all this does is give the nerd rage machine more ammunition. Its their business and they run their business how they see fit - Steve and his nerd following would just find something else to be pissed at if it weren't for all the follow-up.
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Instead I wanna see Linus fire back scrutinizing Nexus for ever mistake they have made. Maybe you can't because he is so clinical about his content. Maybe a vid about being a condescending asshole? Cause that he definitely is lol
 
Manny Calavera said:
Madison though has evidence
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Have you got a timestamp (if it's in that video) or a link? I'm curious. I read the unroll of her Twitter rant[1] but seen no other data.

[1] can't think of a better word OTTOMH, no negative connotation inteded
 
I'm just going to throw in here and say that I'm glad to see this conversation between GN and LTT. I know its hard, and painful, and dramatic, but I've not respected LTT for the mistakes they've promulgated through ignorance in multiple videos. I remember thinking how stupid it was when he was building super shitty large NAS with no backups and he was teaching all the wrong things to people. He's suffered multiple dramatic events (loss of data) due to this and I just can't respect poor decision making. GN is right to call out the behaviors they did - and while a lot of it is innocent and everyone makes mistakes - I want to see improvement. If LTT wants to be a content mill for tiktok masses, so be it... but this discourse allows people to see who has more in-depth and accurate content, for those who care...
 
So is LTT coming back? I see no new videos on my stream. GN keeps posting stuff though.
 
Be like Linus when you post in this thread and make sure it is ON TOPIC.
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Sir Beregond said:
Yeah see this is why I am really confused why they started this whole Labs thing.
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I believe Linus said he wanted to make labs the standard for tests and turn it into some kind of validation lab. I imagine the end goal is also to make it a place where companies can submit products to be tested and validated. Not to mention they want to sell their custom tools in the future. Of course for all of this to happen LMG needs to pull their heads out of their collective asses. Especially the management.
 
Brackle said:
all about making more $$$$
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Some of the spendings did not seem to match how much money the reviews would do (i.e. how much more values they would have over what say Gamers Nexus lab room level, seem to be spending a fortune to go an extra 5%), could be a very long term plan.

You can do speaker review with a more modest soundproof room, headphone review without a robot head

Part of the labs motivation can be talent retention-attractiveness, they seem to have taken control for having to play with their dream toys.
Company themselves are excited by this, specially those who thinks they would look good at stuff they never see in reviews and actively help (and a good way to be friends when it comes to subjectively conclude from the numbers) are helping, from giving them expert in those field time to hardware.
Lot of money to spend to not have to pay a giant amount of taxes, not sure what to do otherwise
Really wanting to build the meca of reviews testing, to have made it, regardless if it is really a good investment, how much money is there to make with more in dept PSU, Wifi capacity to go through walls or PC case fan testing than what already exist out there
And everything is content, failure being particularly good content, something that ambitious will for sure create a lot of failure to talk about.
 
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LukeTbk said:
Some of the spendings did not seem to match how much money the reviews would do (i.e. how much more values they would have over what say Gamers Nexus lab room level, seem to be spending a fortune to go an extra 5%), could be a very long term plan.

You can do speaker review with a more modest soundproof room, headphone review without a robot head

Part of the labs motivation can be talent retention-attractiveness, they seem to have taken control for having to play with their dream toys.
Company themselves are excited by this, specially those who thinks they would look good at stuff they never see in reviews and actively help (and a good way to be friends when it comes to subjectively conclude from the numbers).
Lot of money to spend to not have to pay a giant amount of taxes, not sure what to do otherwise
Really wanting to build the meca of reviews testing, to have made it, regardless if it is really a good investment, how much money is there to make with more in dept PSU, Wifi capacity to go through walls or PC case fan testing than what already exist out there
And everything is content, failure being particularly good content, something that ambitious will for sure create a lot of failure to talk about.
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Yeah I thought the exact same thing when they invested all that money into those labs. Cool stuff though. Better than buying a fleet of Lamborghinis or something.
 
Wow, that was a lot to take in :ROFLMAO: I was a little shocked at first, but then realized it's really not so shocking in the ridiculously fast-paced society most of us here live in. As I get older, it makes me increasingly sad to think about how much shit is crammed down the average functional adult's throat on a daily basis. I can only speak for myself, but I have noticed a big increase in mistakes in all industries I deal with. I think we all need to just slow the fk down ;)
Two things I think are wild: 1) The fact that there is at least one person out there that bought one unit over another based flawed YT reviewer data. 2) How many LTT videos were watched, and most likely 99% never noticed until now. I know, there are some heros among us that knew it all along... :facepalm: Until GN made this video, I didn't stop to realize how many people don't read specs/whitepapers for hardware and just buy based on social media.
I've been avoiding watching this video for a while, only because I didn't know what it was about. That thumbnail was really staring me in the face for a long time. I never thought a GN video would be so captivating to me. I probably never would have clicked it if it wasn't for the hard news. Steve definitely didn't hold back, I appreciate what he did.. but boy oh boy.. lol
 
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Folly said:
You're not alone in noticing this, there is indeed a crisis of competence sweeping across the western world.
An interesting and sobering article...
https://www.palladiummag.com/2023/06/01/complex-systems-wont-survive-the-competence-crisis/
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At some point, critical thinking was removed from the education systems. If you don't develop that skill early, you lack problem solving ability. Education became memorization and multiple choice testing, essentially indoctrination. Humans became programmed biological robots, just following commands of the one above them. That's exactly what corporations want, not a critical thinker that might question the programming and orders.
 
VoloxitySF said:
Wow, that was a lot to take in :ROFLMAO: I was a little shocked at first, but then realized it's really not so shocking in the ridiculously fast-paced society most of us here live in. As I get older, it makes me increasingly sad to think about how much shit is crammed down the average functional adult's throat on a daily basis. I can only speak for myself, but I have noticed a big increase in mistakes in all industries I deal with. I think we all need to just slow the fk down ;)
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That seems to be the underlying issue, ultimately. The drive to push content faster taking precedent over quality. YouTube is a little weird in that regard. There are a lot of channels that do very high quality work doing intensive reviews, think GN, or Project Farm or even Vacuum Wars. Lot of good content out there. While some of them have fairly big subscriber totals and likely the channel owners are doing fairly well financially, it pales in comparison to what the big guys are pulling in.

The longevity of a YouTuber is ultimately pretty short, so I think the drive to monetize and cash in while you can is huge. But it's a gamble. Grow fast and you're going to make mistakes and rivals. Like you said, same thing kind of exists in every industry at the moment. Go fast fast fast and hopefully by the time it catches up to you the nest egg is already socked away.
 
Twisted Kidney said:
Every single tech tuber I've seen takes money from the companies they review. That pretty much lets them out of being able to review any product in a any given market segment. "Trust me bro" from the likes of GN and LMG doesn't hand-wave away that colossal conflict of interest. TechTube is an advertising platform. Take your pick of channels, they're all dependent on sponsorship money and you can't tell people to trust your reviews of brands that you work for.
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I think this is mostly true, but I wouldn't say it's 100%. I know GN has paid sponsors, but often it is an unrelated item. So a case mfr might sponsor a video and they play a clip adverting the case, but then review a GPU. So they are paid yes, but it is done in a way that is not a conflict of interest. They also sell t-shirts, workmats (that are pretty cool), other things to help keep the channel going. The fact that they purposely did not monetize the video regarding the LTT mess shows that they didn't do it for $$. It's why GN is one of the few channels I genuinely trust for review material. I still keep in mind that every human has bias's, even Steve, and take that into account.

But sadly, most do fall into your Generalization that it comes down to paid ads. This is basically the 'influencer' job, be it on YouTube, tik-tok, Instagram, etc.
 
FrgMstr said:

View: https://youtu.be/Ez9uVSKLYUI
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Watched this, it rings hollow and feels like a freelanced LTT damage control piece. Another LTX attendee (something that's rapidly becoming a badge of dishonour) who pretty much admits his bias at the start, he even prepares the viewer for the blatant hypocrisy he's about to deliver. It's a case of 'Look bro, I'm telling you that you can't trust me so you should definitely trust me'.

Carefully constructed spiel read from a teleprompter that will fail to convince anyone who's familiar with events, but it will serve as a welcome salve for wounded LTT fanatics.
 
GoodBoy said:
I think this is mostly true, but I wouldn't say it's 100%. I know GN has paid sponsors, but often it is an unrelated item. So a case mfr might sponsor a video and they play a clip adverting the case, but then review a GPU. So they are paid yes, but it is done in a way that is not a conflict of interest. They also sell t-shirts, workmats (that are pretty cool), other things to help keep the channel going. The fact that they purposely did not monetize the video regarding the LTT mess shows that they didn't do it for $$. It's why GN is one of the few channels I genuinely trust for review material. I still keep in mind that every human has bias's, even Steve, and take that into account.

But sadly, most do fall into your Generalization that it comes down to paid ads. This is basically the 'influencer' job, be it on YouTube, tik-tok, Instagram, etc.
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I would disagree, once you have a sponsor in competition with a product you're reviewing it's difficult to imagine complete impartiality. I offer no solutions, it's how the whole industry works. Most of these YouTubers and websites can't survive without sponsorship. I'm sure the scramble to fund an operation like the [H], LMG, GN, or whatever is a horrible grind for smaller outfits. I sympathize with the initial fuck up that lead to this drama, and I honestly view GN as a drama channel, but they're not often wrong either. I have no sympathy for a man that can't admit mistakes, though.

I'm sure most of these tubers and sites try to be as impartial as possible and most manufacturers aren't looking to completely control the media (except nVidia and Apple). I'm just incredibly skeptical of a lot of things. Like not monetizing a video, this kind of guerrilla journalism can make you famous. Taking a big target down is a massive coup, if this had the potential to end LMG it would make GN a legend and probably kill GN in the offing. Once you start attacking your colleagues you will very quickly find yourself without any colleagues.

As for working conditions... Well, there's a trillion videos on the LTT page, they seem to do a huge amount of content. I don't know how many editors they have but there's two things I have learned in 46 years of being a bit of a prick: One: high output is high effort, people are working like dogs to make all that content. Two: Companies hire kids because they can be exploited much more easily than an adult with a family and the resources to tell an employer to kindly fuck off.
 
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Folly said:
Watched this, it rings hollow and feels like a freelanced LTT damage control piece. Another LTX attendee (something that's rapidly becoming a badge of dishonour) who pretty much admits his bias at the start, he even prepares the viewer for the blatant hypocrisy he's about to deliver. It's a case of 'Look bro, I'm telling you that you can't trust me so you should definitely trust me'.

Carefully constructed spiel read from a teleprompter that will fail to convince anyone who's familiar with events, but it will serve as a welcome salve for wounded LTT fanatics.
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I wouldn't call Ian Cutress or should I say Dr. Cutress, a blind fanboi of LMG.
He has more street cred than 90% of the other "tech reviewers" on the Tube.
 
CAD4466HK said:
I wouldn't call Ian Cutress or should I say Dr. Cutress, a blind fanboi of LMG.
He has more street cred than 90% of the other "tech reviewers" on the Tube.
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By his own admission he has ties to LMG, he has a horse in the race, that's not in dispute.
Definitely wouldn't call him a fanboi, more of a beta orbiter.
 
GoodBoy said:
I think this is mostly true, but I wouldn't say it's 100%. I know GN has paid sponsors, but often it is an unrelated item. So a case mfr might sponsor a video and they play a clip adverting the case, but then review a GPU. So they are paid yes, but it is done in a way that is not a conflict of interest. They also sell t-shirts, workmats (that are pretty cool), other things to help keep the channel going. The fact that they purposely did not monetize the video regarding the LTT mess shows that they didn't do it for $$. It's why GN is one of the few channels I genuinely trust for review material. I still keep in mind that every human has bias's, even Steve, and take that into account.
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This is both misunderstanding, if the case company sponsors a video in may and one of their case get reviewed in june, it just hides more from the viewer the conflict of interest it does not remove it.

Same for the video not being monetized. Safe to assume that it was not for money, but not monetizing the video and making a big deal to the viewer about it was maybe the best way to make the most money out of it:
https://socialblade.com/youtube/c/gamers_nexus

It is really not a sign that it was not motivated by the fact that it would attract a lot of attention to his channel.

Folly said:
By his own admission he has ties to LMG, he has a horse in the race, that's not in dispute.
Definitely wouldn't call him a fanboi, more of a beta orbiter.
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They almost will all have (to GN and LMG), either they will be a competitor or a collaborator, about everyone in the space will have experience and possible future one with those 2.
 
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FrgMstr said:

View: https://youtu.be/Ez9uVSKLYUI
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I stopped watching when he got to the topic of the Madison accusations and took the position that in any case where someone is accusing another of harassment, people should assume the accused is guilty until proven innocent. Talk about a bad take - can only imagine how bad the rest of his takes are in the video.
 
I give props to Dr. Cutress. But Steves video is still amazing. And will forever be in our hearts and minds. :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
 
PC-Only said:
I stopped watching when he got to the topic of the Madison accusations and took the position that in any case where someone is accusing another of harassment, people should assume the accused is guilty until proven innocent. Talk about a bad take - can only imagine how bad the rest of his takes are in the video.
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I found his right of reply section to be the end point for me. Though I skipped around through most of it to that point. Right of reply might be journalistic integrity in theory but these days it usually means the journalist in question wants a choice quote that works well with their article, pro or con.
 
Sickb0y said:
holy fuck the music :ROFLMAO:
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The everything. Genius on all fronts. If Steve casually wore an Owen Wilson wig in his next video and never made mention of it, people would be blacking out from laughter-induced oxygen deprivation.

But that'd also be undermining Steve's dead serious conviction about the whole thing, thus he'd never do it.
 
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