Gaming is no longer for me

kleptophobiac

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Sep 24, 2001
Messages
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I first got into serious gaming with Unreal and Halflife. It was a pleasurable pastime; it was a way to let go of the world and have honest entertainment for a few hours at a time. Times have changed since then. Back then, a user would walk into a store, buy a game, and use it forever with no additional strings attached. Then along came the "pay to play" MMO, and the pay once, play forever model became obsolete. Game boxes started to come with advertising leaflets in the boxes. Then they shed the boxes altogether (to cut costs).

Today I fired up CS 1.6 for the first time in about a month. What do I find? A game I first played in the last millennium now has in-game advertisements. The world has come and invaded my game, a game for which I paid full price. Nobody asked me if I wanted Valve to make more money off of me. Nobody asked if I wanted ads on my computer. The server operator (who has to support the burden of the bandwidth I consume) gets nothing from the advertising.

Publishers tell us that in-game advertising enhances the players' experience. It should add to the "realism" of a game. But games exist precisely because they are *not* real. If I wanted maximum realism in an FPS, I'd enlist in an army participating in the theatre of my choice. Publishers feel that advertising will be a benefit to the user in providing them information about products and services that they will find useful. This is the same hogwash that the television industry has been saying for years. How often do you stand up and relieve your bladder during television commercials? How many of you use personal video recorders specifically to avoid those obnoxious advertisements? How many pop-ups actually do you any good?

The advertising industry doesn't make sense. Companies make money to do things that consumers don't like, but because we are all consumers they all benefit in the end anyway. The false perception that more advertising is always better is leading us to a totally advertising saturated society. Ads on security trays in airports? "Admobile" vehicles dedicated to the sole purpose of distracting drivers? Where does the madness end? Clearly it won't.

Advertising is an attack on my senses, and I fight back as best as I can. I automatically block 99% of ads on the internet. My PVR automatically flags and skips television commercials. I read my content online and do not buy print publications.

I stray. The point of this diatribe is that I have never purchased a game that requires a subscription or has in-game advertising. Now that that has become the norm I feel that gaming will never again be my relaxing step away from the real world. I'm getting older, I'm getting my degree, and my spending power is increasing. I'm not playing games anymore.
 
I know it sucks. I just don't know how much money they really make off in game ads. I don't game like I used to and I really aint ready to commit to a "no gaming" stance. But I DO understand ya and it's tragic that though I don't totally agree, many will and will probably find it fitting to walk away too.

I feel you're looking at this way deeper than I care to at the moment. And with good reason I suppose--you got big things ahead of ya so gaming can take a back seat. But I say, you'll be back because you have a passion for it. It's just right now you seem to have bigger things going on...and at some point, I feel you will look past the "advertisements" and play for fun. Gaming isn't cheap, I don't have to tell you that. Manufacuturers probably have to offset cost nowadays as it's getting terribly expensive to produce them.

Hey, this was pretty thought provoking. I might add to this later. Right now, I say I understand but don't totally agree ;)
 
so you abandoned all games just because ads??? thats sad.
I personally don't give a shit about ingame ads as long as they don't display while playing, and I am confident that nobody would ever advertise like that.
I don't even glimpse at the packaging I just rip it apart and take the disks and manual out then install - skip adware installation - skip pre-game logo ads - play.
I just don't see the big deal here, all these ads are just minor additions that they never changed the game core, if you ask me the impact on my gaming, I'd say couple of ESCs and thats all.
 
I saw screenshots of the ads in counterstrike and thought they looked out of place and silly. I can see that driving some people bonkers.

I think in-game ads can work if they make sense. Sports games are perfect for this. Part of the sports experience is the ads we see. If they can seamlessly integrate ads in sports games the way we see them in real life, it works and can enhance the realism of the game. A FPS they *could* work in is Unreal Tournament, since that is set as a spectator sport sort of thing. But it would look weird seeing ads for Dodge pickups on a typical UT map since it's only several hundred years in the future and they have flying cars and stuff. So ads would have to fit with the game and that may be tricky.
 
I don't game like I used to and I really aint ready to commit to a "no gaming" stance. But I DO understand ya and it's tragic that though I don't totally agree, many will and will probably find it fitting to walk away too.
...
But I say, you'll be back because you have a passion for it. It's just right now you seem to have bigger things going on...and at some point, I feel you will look past the "advertisements" and play for fun.

My game time has been falling off precipitously in the last few years, not so much because big things are going on, but because the passion is gone. My dorm mates and I wanted to play a game (starting spring break! Hurrah!) and were quite surprised to find the game different than the last time we played.

so you abandoned all games just because ads??? thats sad.
I personally don't give a shit about ingame ads as long as they don't display while playing, and I am confident that nobody would ever advertise like that.

The ads you're talking about are things like the "nvidia - the way it's meant to be played" logo. That isn't so bad. Those aren't in-game advertisements. Valve put in true in-game advertisements. They're big banners randomly stuck on the walls of maps and in the scoreboard. Just being advertising in a game I bought an paid for is heinous enough, but worse yet, they detract from the gameplay experience. Their presence got me so distracted during the game that I played very poorly, didn't pay attention to my teammates, and ended up quitting the game quite frustrated after only half an hour. Usually we play for two to three hours.

I'm not quitting gaming just because of the ads. I've been slowly coming out of the habit for a long time. Ads are just "the nail in the coffin" that woke me up to the fact that it's not that I don't enjoy games (I still play classics like Total Annihilation), but that modern gaming no longer matches up with what gives me pleasure.

There's a neat science fiction book I read called "The Diamond Age" where nanotechnology facilitates the placement of screens everywhere, and suddenly the entire world is covered in advertisements. Worse yet, visual aid implants are occasionally hacked and infected with adware that causes the wearer to be inundated with ads even in his sleep. While the implanted ad machine might be a ways off, I'll bet anything that the ad companies would leap at the chance to do something so vile.
 
Sadly consoles have become the true answer to plain old fun gaming. Nothing more, nothing less. Look into getting a 360.
 
I don't hypothetically mind in game advertisements, particularly if they help allow for more free content. What drove me crazy recently was Battlefield 2142 (as if that hasn't been discussed enough, I know). I was just very frustrated, not by the presence of the ads, but rather that the game had pretty little content on release, and many bugs, and then within five months a booster pack is released with more content, but at a price.

I don't mind publishers and developers trying to make money--that's what makes the world go 'round. But I am frustrated that they profit from in game ads, while at the same time we still pay the same price for the games and are given no additional content. It seems to in no way benefit the consumer while in all ways benefits the publisher.

I'm not giving up gaming though because of it, of course. I can tune out annoying ads, and my favourite games as of today don't feature any of it. So it's all fine for me. But the concept and what is going on I do not like.
 
I'm against in-game ads in theory, but the only game I play that has them, BF2142, has implemented them so well it doesn't bug me. If a game implements them poorly and they're a distraction, boycott the game and move on to the next. I couldn't give up gaming. I just turned 40 and I'll be gaming till I die... :D
 
Sadly consoles have become the true answer to plain old fun gaming. Nothing more, nothing less. Look into getting a 360.

And yet the two things he hates the most, paying to play and advertisements are still a part of console gaming.

While pay to play isn't as prevalent on consoles, (that's mainly due to PC's being much better suited to the MMO genre) any true MMO on a console will still be pay to play, just look at Final Fantasy XI. And I've been seeing ads in console games for a while now, mostly in EA games like Burnout 3.

Come on now, let's not turn this into a PC vs. Console thing.
 
It's diabolical to be honest.

We already know this is a numbers game, only very very tiny percentages of user (mostly morons I assme) respond to advertising and actually go through to generate revenue for the company advertising, ad click throughs on the net tend to number in the < 1% range.

For a system that is already making a profit (i.e all current game distribution models) they're basically blatently ABUSING 99% of the customers to gain revenue from a measly 1%

It couldn't be more disgusting.

I WILL NOT buy or support any game with advertising in it, FULL STOP.

It's that simple.
 
so you abandoned all games just because ads??? thats sad.
I personally don't give a shit about ingame ads as long as they don't display while playing, and I am confident that nobody would ever advertise like that.
I don't even glimpse at the packaging I just rip it apart and take the disks and manual out then install - skip adware installation - skip pre-game logo ads - play.
I just don't see the big deal here, all these ads are just minor additions that they never changed the game core, if you ask me the impact on my gaming, I'd say couple of ESCs and thats all.

QFT. Who cares? If some non-intrusive ads are going to make you quit gaming, then it seems like you're just looking for a reason to quit anyway.
 
For starters, in some genres, like racing and sports games, ads undeniably make the game more realistic, so saying ads are always bad is a rash statement. Advertising has already invaded sporting events and exists on billboards throught real world cities and why not allow developers to make a little extra money off them?

In the case of cs, you're talking about a game that has been out for like 10 years. It seems to me perfectly logical and understandable if they were to come out and say "hey sorry guys, we can't support this game with patches and updates forever, we're gonna let it die now" but instead they found a new source of revenue from it and now the project has new funding. Most cs players have gotten hundreds of hours of entertainment out of their miniscule monetary purchase, so I don't see the problem here.

kleptophobiac said:
I stray. The point of this diatribe is that I have never purchased a game that requires a subscription or has in-game advertising. Now that that has become the norm I feel that gaming will never again be my relaxing step away from the real world. I'm getting older, I'm getting my degree, and my spending power is increasing. I'm not playing games anymore.

Its perfectly reasonable to not buy games based on their implementation of ads, and it seems a lot of your frustration stems from the fact that they were added after purchase, which, though I disagree with your stance on it, is understandable. After I graduated college I found myself much more inclined to buy things like games on a whim, and much more appreciative of the work that goes into them. When you're out supporting yourself, $50 for that many hours of entertainment frankly seems like a steal. I can deal with some ads every now and then.
 
I ask this hypothetical question in hope that I get some kind of unexpected response:

If Crysis (or C&C 3, Quake 5, etc, etc) came out tomorrow for a 50 dollar edition with in game ads during multiplayer matches, or a 60 dollar edition without in game ads which would you buy?

To all the ideologues that might bitch and say "50 dollars is the standard price, so the ad supported version should be CHEAPER than that while the ad-free one should be 50!", well too bad (even though I actually agree with you 100%). We KNOW that the publishers will not give us a cent of this on fair terms, so lets go for this worse case scenario.

Would paying the extra 10 bucks be worth it to you? It would be interesting to see the responses of younger users with little income compared to older users with much more disposable income.
 
Originally Posted by :rucedeluxe169
I ask this hypothetical question in hope that I get some kind of unexpected response:...

I personally wouldn't spend the extra to remove the advertising, for the most part it doesn't bother me, (hell I rarely notice it to be honest.) It more boils down to implementation for me, if they do a piss-poor job of implementation, banner add type set-up,) that yea it sucks but if they just stick a poster on a wall... meh who cares. Is it forcing you to purchase the product/service... nope, just like a billboard on the road, if it interests you you'll end up looking into it deeper...if it doesn't you move along.

to the OP, it seems that you have an issue with advertising in general, (not just in a game environment; if a company doesn't advertise how exactly are they supposed to sell their wares? I do agree to an extent that it has gotten out of hand, but it still needs to be done.

I honestly don't see what the big deal is, if you don't like it, don't look; if it bothers you that much than find other avenues for relaxation. Though I wouldn't expect the advertising community to leave you alone, it's everywhere you want to be... damn.
 
I would pay to keep ads out, but ONLY if the quality of the game was significantly higher than the usual.

Games still sell for a healthy profit, adding ads just gives the developers an additional stream of revenue, which is fair enough if they offer somehting in return, like reduced price or more features.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, the question shouldn't be "what are we willing to pay to keep ads out" it should instead be "what are they willing to offer us extra to warrent needing ads in the first place"

Ad's arent currently being used to support games, just to create addiional revenue that the game developers/publishers don't strictly need.

BF2142 sold at full price and doens't offer updates or new things monthly, CS 1.6 has ads in it now but hasn't offered up any new content recently either, nor is there any official servers that even need supporting.
 
I wouldn't pay an extra 10 bucks just for no ads. If they're anything like the CS ads, I wouldn't even notice them.

There would have to be some other reason(s) to make me pay another 10 bucks.
 
I wouldn't pay an extra 10 bucks just for no ads. If they're anything like the CS ads, I wouldn't even notice them.

There would have to be some other reason(s) to make me pay another 10 bucks.

But would you rather them hike the price $10 for no reason?

They're putting in ads because they want additional profit without much additional work, under the assumption that most people will simply not care about the ads. If they're left to assume this for too long then all games will have ads in, which will suck bigtime.
 
There are ads in BF2142? I hardly even notice them. I must be too busy owning the people who are easily distracted by them.
The only time I notice the ads is when the other team suck so much that there isnt much for me to do but to look for ads.
Yea, ads in a game you paid for sucks. But what is more important? Having a blast with the game? Or wasting energy constantly bitching about something that is barely noticeable?
 
Originally Posted by Frosteh:
Ad's arent currently being used to support games, just to create addiional revenue that the game developers/publishers don't strictly need.

I'd be curious to see how much of the revenue made it back to the publishing house, (my initial instincts are that the publisher eats the most of it up.
 
Do I have a problem with advertising in general? Not exactly. I understand that companies need to make themselves known in order to survive. What I don't understand is why they feel that they'll have more market success by plastering every flat surface on the planet (real and virtual) with an ad.

I honestly don't see what the big deal is, if you don't like it, don't look; if it bothers you that much than find other avenues for relaxation. Though I wouldn't expect the advertising community to leave you alone, it's everywhere you want to be... damn.

That *is* the big deal. I can "not look" only so much. You guys are right, in some cases it does add to the realism. If you're writing a simulation game (sports, racing, cities, etc) then ads might have a place in your game. Because ads violate the fundamental reason I played games, I do have to find an alternative form of relaxation. Will the gaming industry care that they've lost one player? No, I'm sure it'll never notice.

How does advertising help Valve support CS? It's the world's most popular game ever. It's still selling new copies. They haven't updated CS since 1.6 came out in.... 2003? They don't pay for the servers. They only sell licenses and don't create new content. This is a purely profit motivated addition to a classic game. Could you imagine id Software coming out with a patch to the original Wolfenstein3D that added ads? That would be atrocious.

I didn't know going in that a game I bought in 1998 was going to become ad-infested. That would have changed my decision to buy. As for the question of whether or not I would buy the $50 version with ads or the $60 version without ads, I would almost certainly buy the $60 version. I would bitch about it, but I would recognize that in-game ads piss me off enough that I wouldn't be able to enjoy the $50 game. Considering the lengths to which I go now in order to clean up my world of advertising, $10 is nothing. Even when I was a kid and first started buying video games, it wasn't the cost of the game that was my barrier to entry.

What makes all this even more frustrating is that I see no benefit as a consumer of games with ads. The ads don't make the game cheaper for me (not that I really care). They don't give me new content (except the advertisements themselves). They don't sponsor server operators. All they do is boost the bottom line of a company that didn't do anything to earn it. I'm all for capitalism; competition is a good thing. Yet, I still feel that in order to earn money, a company has to do something to deserve it. If they make a good game that I want, then they deserve money. Gaming is a very large industry with 25-40% profit margins. Developers (on the whole) are not starving. I recognize that most web sites rely on advertising income, but that's part of their business model. I don't pay for web content purely because it is ad-supported. I've come to terms with that and don't mind. But if I pay for something, I expect it to be devoid of advertising. Cable TV is the only enormous exception to this rule of thumb, and I have a MythTV box to strip the ads out. I feel quite righteous doing so.

But I ask again, where does the madness stop? I posit that it never will. Soon we'll see overhead view RTS games with ads. They'll just be textures overlaid on the ground, staring up at you at all times. Some game company will come out with a really addictive game and realize that they can have popups right in the middle of the game and people will still play it.
 
But I ask again, where does the madness stop? I posit that it never will. Soon we'll see overhead view RTS games with ads. They'll just be textures overlaid on the ground, staring up at you at all times. Some game company will come out with a really addictive game and realize that they can have popups right in the middle of the game and people will still play it.

Give me a break. It will never stop? Companies will try and push it, I agree, but ultimately it comes down to the consumer. When it gets far enough, people will NOT play, and their sales will show it. When push comes to shove, they still need to please us first.
 
Game developers and advertisers are counting on gamers not caring, and they don't. Yes some people (myself included) avoid games with in-game advertising but we are statistically insignificant. As a culture we are accustomed to the onslaught of advertising at all levels, from billboards to tv to logos stamped on our vitamins. Complaining about it just looks weird to the average person because they don't even see advertising anymore, it's just the way the world looks.

I'm old but even as a child the modern era of advertising had already begun, with the emphasis on density and invasiveness. Competition is so hideous that even the smallest return seems to be worth some pretty grotesque efforts to get the "message" in front of one's eyes.

So you picked a good time to get out. This is not only not going away, it's going to become far worse. The ranks of developers is thinning out, the number of games making it to market is shrinking and the power of advertisers is only going to grow.
 
Give me a break. It will never stop? Companies will try and push it, I agree, but ultimately it comes down to the consumer. When it gets far enough, people will NOT play, and their sales will show it. When push comes to shove, they still need to please us first.

I'm not so sure about that. Look at the BS the RIAA and MPAA are getting away with trashing our fair use rights. I personally have boycotted buying CD's (proud that I've only bought about 10 in the last 15 years), but I'm very much in the minority. Crap music, DRM that makes the music either not play or sound like crud when it does, no good alternatives and do you see consumers stopping it? Their CD sales are down, but it's still taking the industry forever to do anything right (if they ever do)... :rolleyes:
 
I'm not so sure about that. Look at the BS the RIAA and MPAA are getting away with trashing our fair use rights. I personally have boycotted buying CD's (proud that I've only bought about 10 in the last 15 years), but I'm very much in the minority. Crap music, DRM that makes the music either not play or sound like crud when it does, no good alternatives and do you see consumers stopping it? Their CD sales are down, but it's still taking the industry forever to do anything right (if they ever do)... :rolleyes:

Where are you getting your music? :rolleyes:

I have no such problems, nor know anyone (until now) with that.
 
And yet the two things he hates the most, paying to play and advertisements are still a part of console gaming.

While pay to play isn't as prevalent on consoles, (that's mainly due to PC's being much better suited to the MMO genre) any true MMO on a console will still be pay to play, just look at Final Fantasy XI. And I've been seeing ads in console games for a while now, mostly in EA games like Burnout 3.

Come on now, let's not turn this into a PC vs. Console thing.

He clearly said paying to play/advertisements were not the only thing that made his decision.
 
Game developers and advertisers are counting on gamers not caring, and they don't. Yes some people (myself included) avoid games with in-game advertising but we are statistically insignificant. As a culture we are accustomed to the onslaught of advertising at all levels, from billboards to tv to logos stamped on our vitamins. Complaining about it just looks weird to the average person because they don't even see advertising anymore, it's just the way the world looks.

QFT. People dont realize it, but advertisement is EVERYWHERE. The WORLD has been used as one giant billboard ALREADY. It is so pervasive that after a while you have to seriously wonder about the psychological effects it has on people of all ages, and especially the younger generations.

I really think it is sad that advertisements like billboards, commercials, and everything else are so normal that people dont even bat an eye when they see them. The scary thing is that most people do NOT simply ignore them, they actually take in the advertisement, just subconsciously.
 
Every time I think I'm out, they pull me back in... :p

To me, PC games are nothing more than another entertainment venue like concerts, movies, sporting events, etc. I don't feel compelled to make some kind of "statement" by refusing to buy/play games due to excessive advertising or anything else. I'll stop playing PC games when they no longer entertain me.
 
First off, congrats on getting the degree. It will be one of your lifes biggest achievements so do not let anyone down play that.

Now, in reference to in-game advertising, I have one thing to say......Welcome to the real world, it can be a cold, dark place if you let it. The gaming industry dictates what they put in the games, not what the user wants to see. They bank on the fact that just like crack addicts, eventually we will do whatever is needed and deal anything to get our fix. Just my 2cents.
 
Every time I think I'm out, they pull me back in... :p

hahaha

First off, congrats on getting the degree. It will be one of your lifes biggest achievements so do not let anyone down play that.

Now, in reference to in-game advertising, I have one thing to say......Welcome to the real world, it can be a cold, dark place if you let it. The gaming industry dictates what they put in the games, not what the user wants to see. They bank on the fact that just like crack addicts, eventually we will do whatever is needed and deal anything to get our fix. Just my 2cents.

words of wisdom
 
I know that there are ads in some games but I never pay any attention to them.

Personally, I like that the newer games are in smaller cartridges instead of the bulky boxes of old.
All of the ads in the game cartridge...straight to the trash. No biggy.
 
He clearly said paying to play/advertisements were not the only thing that made his decision.

Really? Point out that line to me then.

Even if you can find one little line that proves this (which I cannot), it's still obvious just exactly what is major qualms are as 95% of what he wrote focuses on ads and paying to play.
 
I think people bitch and whine waaay too much.


You're quitting gaming because of....ads?

:rolleyes:

ok cya.

They way people bitch about ads in games you'd think they look like those blinking "CLICK HERE NOW. YOU WON!" ads.
 
I can understand people complaining about adds, it's almost like someone stuck an add in your house. It doesn't bother me and I don't think it merits to quit playing the game but it is worthy on a bitch about it thread.
 
It has a lot to do with the huge companies like EA that pump out games geared at demographics like the younger audiences that are the most susceptible to in-game advertising, because they're the least likely to complain with their $$. I think we can safely say if companies weren't making money at doing this they wouldn't be doing this, and if sales were dropping off, the advertising would stop. Complain all you want, but if you keep buying, your complaining will be ignored. Not only that, but if you refuse to pay $60-70-80 for a game, then you will see more and more of this kind of advertising in order to make money as costs go up and up.

Another thing to remember is that some games are more easily advertised in. If all you play is Sports (racing, football, basketball, hockey) or FPS (all the modern warfare clone games included) then yes, you're going to see a lot of ads because they are easily inserted. I don't think you'll be seeing ads in games like Oblivion, Civilization, or Supreme Commander anytime soon.

The OP needs to realise times change. You don't have 10 people making a game anymore, you have 100+. Everyone wants eye candy, deep stories, voice actors, 3D everything, intuitive controls, detailed physics, latest engine support, etc, but no one wants to pay for it.

The ads being put into games like CS is just a way for Valve, or their parent company most likely, to cash in on a game they know people are going to play with or without ads, and should be taken as a seperate issue of corporate greed.

MMO games are a totally different category of game and you can't use that as an excuse to quit gaming since that would be akin to quitting watching TV completely because you have to pay for certain channels you like but don't feel you should have to pay for. Those companies are offering a service, and if you don't like the service or won't pay for it, you don't get the service... simple as that.
 
I think a lot of the "Ads in games is ruinating games" is just whining to be whining.

Splinter Cell has ads in it, so does Crackdown. I see an ad for a Dodge truck as I jump from roof to roof, or an ad for some movie as I zip by at 200 miles per hour. And really, Despite the city in Need for Speed Underground having a Best Buy on every corner, I don't see how it changed gameplay. Or even the Sprint logos in Space Quest V at the end of calls.

Now, I can see if they resorted to pop-ups, ads that don't match the setting(Nike in Call of Duty, Antique Shoes in Space Shooter 7 that just happen to be in stores now!), having to read ads to continue the game or silly shit like getting a command from HQ that says "Agent! Circuit City is close by with sales on CD Drives! We need one at the office!" That would be worth whining about, and I would be up there whining away. But the way they are doing it now isn't a problem at all.

The ads being put into games like CS is just a way for Valve, or their parent company most likely, to cash in on a game they know people are going to play with or without ads, and should be taken as a seperate issue of corporate greed.

Plus they can cash in on pirated software. They know how many copies are out there and calling in to the mothership, so they can sell that space based on it.
 
Listen, unless you're a mindless fuck with the thinking capacity of a monkey, you'll be able to put up with some damn ads. You know what I do when I see those ads in 1.6? "OK, ads." And then I keep playing. Really, guys. Stop being too much of a self absorbent drone and bitch when some real problems start to come out.

edit: And by the way, I'm not buying Team Fortress 2, no matter how much Valve influenced me.
 
WHAT AN EMO over videogames. lol There are more important things to life than mope over videogames and ads and shit like that.
 
what really bothers me is not the ads here or there but the fact that the publisher installs spyware (ala BF 2142) for those ads to work based on your surfing habits and will tell you so, and people accept it. This is hardly understandable.:confused:
I for one wont buy a game that has adware on it, and if it means the end of gaming for me then so be it.:(
The amount of marketing is getting ridiculous, its everywhere you look and has permeated every facet of our enjoyment. Ads in your face everywhere you go. Why???? Hell, look what's its done to the movie theater. No one wants to go just because of them showing ads you just saw on your TV 20 minutes before you got to the movie house.
They need to not put ads in our games and keep their marketing strategies to themselves:mad:
 
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