Germany Imposes Fines Against Microsoft

H

HardOCP News

[H] News
Joined
Dec 31, 1969
Messages
0
Okay, stop me if you’ve heard this one before. Apparently there is a company called Microsoft that has been fined millions of dollars by a some European country...

The product in question was heavily advertised in the autumn of 2008 in stationary retail outlets. Amongst others, a nationwide active retailer advertised the product with financial support from Microsoft. Even before the launch of the advertising campaign in mid-October 2008, employees of Microsoft and the retailer in question had agreed on at least two occasions on the resale price of the software package “Office Home & Student 2007”.
Click to expand...
 
I wonder if we're going to see more "government fines" as a result of the recession?
 
Surprising, the Bank of Microsoft giving TARP-like loans to the EU (paid out, never returned!). I guess this way the United States won't have to lend you any money since you won't pony it up yourself, instead you'll fine the shit of a successful US company. I wish Microsoft would just stop doing business there (EU as a whole), profit or not. Regardless of all the MS haters, the impact of options being removed from the table is ALWAYS bad and honestly it would serve them right. In no situation has any of their retarded bullshit they've pressed on even been worthwhile. Windows XP N anyone? What a crock of shit.
 
Thats pretty sad... why in the world would microsoft and a retailer agree to sale prices months before it went on sale? :rolleyes:

The good ol US is heading in the same direction too
 
Looks like they may have deserved this one under German law. The fine was also not ridiculous in typical EU style. I was a few million, and not measured in the multi Billions, so I am inclined to accept this as just removal of profits improperly gained. And it's rare that I give any EU country the benefit of the doubt in this sort of thing.
 
I'm lost, how did they get evidence for this? Emails or signed papers or something?
 
dr.stevil said:
Thats pretty sad... why in the world would microsoft and a retailer agree to sale prices months before it went on sale? :rolleyes:

The good ol US is heading in the same direction too
Click to expand...

"Not every contact between supplier and retailer regarding resale prices constitutes an illegal concerted practice" <- From that MS and the retailer can agree on sale prices.

"However, this must not lead to a form of coordination where the supplier actively tries to coordinate the pricing activities of the retailer and thus retailer and supplier agree on future actions of the retailer" <- from that it seems MS was trying to set the prices the retailer has even after the advertising sale period is over which would be against German law.

Would you like it if MS helped pay for some advertising at Best Buy, and then MS can dictate all future sale prices even after the advertised sale is over?
 
pothb said:
I'm lost, how did they get evidence for this? Emails or signed papers or something?
Click to expand...

I would guess one of the retailers in question was pissed off at MS trying to dictate their resale prices after the advertised sale period and complained. I would.
 
Once a convicted monopolist, always a convicted monopolist.

Fine? Who cares? As a practicing monoplist, M$ has no doubt already factored such fines into the "price fixing" structure of whatever SW product they peddle. All that matters to M$ is market share. The reward is in the pudding.
 
If I was Microsoft I would brick all German computers running windows for 30 seconds and see if they still wanted to fine them. Well the ones connected to the internet anyways.
 
Thanks to the fall of the Berlin wall , the iron curtain has been slowly moving towards west. Eliminate the private sector by any means possible. Not to worry , there will be more left for the rest of us. We know Putin hates MS so its clear that Germany is just following orders.
 
stoney_titan said:
If I was Microsoft I would brick all German computers running windows for 30 seconds and see if they still wanted to fine them. Well the ones connected to the internet anyways.
Click to expand...

1) misuse of the term "brick"
2) that would remove all doubt that MS are abusing their position as a monopoly and I doubt even America would stand for that
3) that would harm US <=> EU trade relations and during a time of recession is not a good idea and thus US would stomp on MS
 
Apparently you don't understand that the European mentality is different and more sensible.
You should learn from them instead of criticizing.
US is a sick country and you have nothing to be proud of.
 
jstnomega said:
Once a convicted monopolist, always a convicted monopolist.

Fine? Who cares? As a practicing monoplist, M$ has no doubt already factored such fines into the "price fixing" structure of whatever SW product they peddle. All that matters to M$ is market share. The reward is in the pudding.
Click to expand...

Wow. Your post was quite titillating. Your opinion became void as soon as you used the "$". How are they a practicing monopolist? There are alternatives, just nothing nearly as useful (notice I didn't say good). EVERY product is "price fixed" by your definition. I suppose I should lower the prices on the stuff I manufactured last night simply because one of my customers thinks I charge too much. They're free to purchase from someone else. I guess everything should be free, and companies should accept donations based on what the receivers feel it is worth? This is business, not a cheerleader car wash.
 
HardDrugsUser said:
Apparently you don't understand that the European mentality is different and more sensible.
You should learn from them instead of criticizing.
US is a sick country and you have nothing to be proud of.
Click to expand...

Sansible as in to all the wars fought, esp. world wars started in europe? I'd watch what you say honestly.
 
HardDrugsUser said:
Apparently you don't understand that the European mentality is different and more sensible.
You should learn from them instead of criticizing.
US is a sick country and you have nothing to be proud of.
Click to expand...

Okay bucko. I think the US is just as diseased as anybody else, but the EU is absolutely no better.
 
wow, nice, I make a reply to someone taking a cheap shot at the US, and my post gets deleted, while the original post stays up. even though I have seen far worse comments posted and allowed to stay.

hopefully, its a bug and not an overzealous forum mod.
 
motomonkey said:
wow, nice, I make a reply to someone taking a cheap shot at the US, and my post gets deleted, while the original post stays up. even though I have seen far worse comments posted and allowed to stay.

hopefully, its a bug and not an overzealous forum mod.
Click to expand...

All the rest of our comments have stayed up. I think the mod is trying to keep the peace. We really shouldn't let a troll turn a topic into a US versus EU thing.
 
motomonkey said:
wow, nice, I make a reply to someone taking a cheap shot at the US, and my post gets deleted, while the original post stays up. even though I have seen far worse comments posted and allowed to stay.

hopefully, its a bug and not an overzealous forum mod.
Click to expand...

You aren't allowed to speak pro-American around here. You have to be sensitive to the european pussies.
 
eh, most europeans are nice people. I work with many daily but there are always going to be ignorant people, no matter what their nationality happens to be.

It's funny watching people look down their nose at others, just point and laugh :)
 
I don't see the big deal. As someone else pointed out the fine is really quite small (single digit millions = small for companies like MS). And, honestly, if Microsoft was caught price-fixing, they NEED to be punished. The fact that MS doesn't appear to be fighting the ruling probably means the prosecution had some air-tight evidence to back the claim. Hell, I have no doubts that MS is probably price fixing in the U.S. too. But good luck seeing any legal action against them considering the deep and bloody hooks they have in Congress.

Though I wonder, who exactly does Microsoft compete against in the retail space for office suites? I know theres Apple's iWork, but is that sold in retail? Theres also OpenOffice, but I'm not sure if thats sold in retail either (if its even allowed to be).
 
I agree that if they broke a law, then they should have to do whats right.


however, this seems more or less a witch hunt than anything else.

who knows though...
 
hah... what would be funny is that MS really does brick their servers and computers with viruses ... the ones that has this type of info on it anyway. I wonder what would happen.
 
It's a scary thing when governments start using laws as a means for theft. They're set up to protect property rights, not to trample all over them. I don't think this most recent incident is an example of that, but many previous EU rulings over Microsoft certainly amount to nothing more than legalized theft.
 
petertew said:
It's a scary thing when governments start using laws as a means for theft. They're set up to protect property rights, not to trample all over them. I don't think this most recent incident is an example of that, but many previous EU rulings over Microsoft certainly amount to nothing more than legalized theft.
Click to expand...

why is it "theft" MS broke the law and have been punished.
 
Am I the only one sick and tired of Germany suing for little more than financial gain? US Company in EU court = easy win. This is little more than extortion wearing a pretty blue hat.
 
Orinthical said:
Am I the only one sick and tired of Germany suing for little more than financial gain? US Company in EU court = easy win. This is little more than extortion wearing a pretty blue hat.
Click to expand...

What was the last German case against a US company?
 
Funny stuff, again. I'm wondering by how much MS been already sued for.
 
eeyrjmr said:
why is it "theft" MS broke the law and have been punished.
Click to expand...

I actually didn't think Germany had done a bad thing in this case; in fact I wrote that in my last post. I wrote that what the EU has been doing is little more than legalized theft, and your post ties into it really well. Just because something is "law" doesn't mean it isn't theft.

The EU has an anti-American, anti-corporation tone to it and they've been funneling money from Microsoft into their own pockets through the "legal" system for some time now. The EU constantly finds trumped up laws that Microsoft is in violation of, and then they take exorbitant amounts of money from them.
 
petertew said:
I actually didn't think Germany had done a bad thing in this case; in fact I wrote that in my last post. I wrote that what the EU has been doing is little more than legalized theft, and your post ties into it really well. Just because something is "law" doesn't mean it isn't theft.

The EU has an anti-American, anti-corporation tone to it and they've been funneling money from Microsoft into their own pockets through the "legal" system for some time now. The EU constantly finds trumped up laws that Microsoft is in violation of, and then they take exorbitant amounts of money from them.
Click to expand...

Germany didn't
The EU doesn't have an Anti-American, Anti-Corporation tone to it, it has an anti-trust tone to it and ANY company that breaks the law (laws that were infact taken from America's 1890 Sherman Act).


Fact is MS got caught price-fixing and was fined. MS have accepted they did something wrong and are not appealing
 
Also the amount of $ that the EU has fined MS are a drop in the ocean to the running cost of the EU, and the only reason that ONE! case had its fines go up so high is because MS were soo arrogant they thought they could just ignore a legal ruling

You are aware that there has only been ONE case that has been closed w.r.t. EU vs. MS and that one case had fines ontop of fines ontop of fines... because MS thought they were above the law and just tried to ignore them

MS's attitude has changed recently (ie actually realising that the EU is not US and have different laws and as such a company in a monopoly position must be very careful) and the EU have also noted that and as such they have actually backed off from engaging MS directly and now leaves it up to individual states
 
petertew said:
Just because something is "law" doesn't mean it isn't theft.
Click to expand...
Well in a legal sense, that's exactly what it means.

Obviously MS thinks it's profitable to operate in the EU, with some occasional law breaking and fines, than not operate there at all.
 
jimmyb said:
Well in a legal sense, that's exactly what it means.

Obviously MS thinks it's profitable to operate in the EU, with some occasional law breaking and fines, than not operate there at all.
Click to expand...

Theft: The act of stealing property. Governments are perfectly capable of stealing property. If you don't believe that have a look at how much land the US federal government owns West of the Mississippi, or have a look at Venezuala and Hugo Chavez and how the government is "legally" reappropriating privately held oil fields.

The EU fines MS over any little thing they can find. Remember how took $2.39 million a day from MS over bundling media player with Windows (the XP N version is a total failure btw)? Remember how they are currently seeking to take money from them yet again over bundling software people want, and internet browser, with their OS (this despite the fact that FF3 is the most popular browser in Europe)? The EU sees MS's deep pockets and anti-trust cases as a new revenue stream.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top