How is WOTLK compared to BC?

Yoshiyuki Blade said:
lol. This is the most classic example of a slippery-slope fallacy.
Click to expand...

Tbh, WoW is slippery-slope in action.

Hero class anyone? No more grind, just start the game at 55!

Quests for Epic class mounts "too hard"? No problem, just buy them at 61! (Note, you will need TBC ($$$) to buy your class epic mount rather than quest for it.)

PvP gear too hard to come by? No worries, old season gear for free, no matter whether you win or lose, we will give you honor and marks anyway, heck, be idle and you will be rewarded.

WotLK Epic flyer quest too hard? No biggie, we will nerf the quest PRIOR to release, just buy your epic WotLK flyer at a vendor.

... and so on, and so on.
 
Thuleman said:
Tbh, WoW is slippery-slope in action.

Hero class anyone? No more grind, just start the game at 55!

Quests for Epic class mounts "too hard"? No problem, just buy them at 61! (Note, you will need TBC ($$$) to buy your class epic mount rather than quest for it.)

PvP gear too hard to come by? No worries, old season gear for free, no matter whether you win or lose, we will give you honor and marks anyway, heck, be idle and you will be rewarded.

WotLK Epic flyer quest too hard? No biggie, we will nerf the quest PRIOR to release, just buy your epic WotLK flyer at a vendor.

... and so on, and so on.
Click to expand...

Heh, I'd rather do a quest than pay gold to get something.
 
Fuck it. I'm going to give the game a shot.

At worst I'll be out $40.

At best I'll have some cheap entertainment to keep me occupied in boring Mississippi.
 
Make that $90.

GoGamer.com currently has WOTLK: CE available for $70

Shipping is $19 though...wtf?
 
MrFace said:
Make that $90.

GoGamer.com currently has WOTLK: CE available for $70

Shipping is $19 though...wtf?
Click to expand...

Getting the CE seems a bit much when you're just going to "give it a shot," doesn't it? :D

EDIT:

Thuleman said:
Tbh, WoW is slippery-slope in action.

Hero class anyone? No more grind, just start the game at 55!

Quests for Epic class mounts "too hard"? No problem, just buy them at 61! (Note, you will need TBC ($$$) to buy your class epic mount rather than quest for it.)

PvP gear too hard to come by? No worries, old season gear for free, no matter whether you win or lose, we will give you honor and marks anyway, heck, be idle and you will be rewarded.

WotLK Epic flyer quest too hard? No biggie, we will nerf the quest PRIOR to release, just buy your epic WotLK flyer at a vendor.

... and so on, and so on.
Click to expand...

Actually, that's the logical way of presenting the situation (though I don't agree with all the points), as you haven't given any assumptions on what will happen next. His fallacy was extrapolating how easy things will get to the point where you can do anything and everything by yourself. Evidence already suggests the contrary, as for example, mid-tier and high tier arena gear still have rating requirements. A much needed improvement over the first 2 seasons having absolutely no restrictions for the best PvP gear.
 
Yoshiyuki Blade said:
Getting the CE seems a bit much when you're just going to "give it a shot," doesn't it? :D
Click to expand...

True, actually I'm going to cancel the order and get the normal version. I honestly have no need for a special in-game pet and the added stuff means nothing to me.
 
Thuleman said:
Tbh, WoW is slippery-slope in action.

Hero class anyone? No more grind, just start the game at 55!
Click to expand...

I don't really see the issue with this. It allows Blizzard to dedicate brand new content rather than just make people re-experience the old.

Quests for Epic class mounts "too hard"? No problem, just buy them at 61! (Note, you will need TBC ($$$) to buy your class epic mount rather than quest for it.)
Click to expand...

That's a straw man: the epic class mounts weren't "too hard," they were impossible to complete because there was no longer any interest whatsoever for groups to go do them. The only way people really did them after BC is if they were run through, which was not the way the content was intended to be experienced.

PvP gear too hard to come by? No worries, old season gear for free, no matter whether you win or lose, we will give you honor and marks anyway, heck, be idle and you will be rewarded.
Click to expand...

Without the PvP gear you didn't stand a chance in arena. Period. There needed to be some reliable, consistent way to acquire gear good enough to start with. Hell, I'm just glad Kalgan saw fit to grace us peons with the priviledge to buy WotLK without requiring a 2000 personal rating requirement just to log in. :rolleyes:
 
Thuleman said:
WotLK Epic flyer quest too hard? No biggie, we will nerf the quest PRIOR to release, just buy your epic WotLK flyer at a vendor.

... and so on, and so on.
Click to expand...

Can you explain further? What epic flyers are they making purchasable, old BC ones or new lich ones?
 
Visec said:
Can you explain further? What epic flyers are they making purchasable, old BC ones or new lich ones?
Click to expand...

You have to pay 1000g for the ABILITY to fly your CURRENT flyer in Northrend. You aren't purchasing a new flyer, just paying to use the flyer you already paid for.
 
MrFace said:
You have to pay 1000g for the ABILITY to fly your CURRENT flyer in Northrend. You aren't purchasing a new flyer, just paying to use the flyer you already paid for.
Click to expand...

Yeah I'm having a tough time comprehending that part of his post. If he's talking about the quest to enable your mount, it was the easiest quest ever. Much more worth doing than paying 1k gold. It was a quest in Sholazar Basin, where you're on a plane (automated) going towards the avalanche. There's a bunch of undead there, and the plane gets damaged. You then take control of the plane, and fly back where you started (really short distance). I'd much rather do that quest than cough up a 1000 gold :eek:
 
Daggah said:
That's a straw man: the epic class mounts weren't "too hard," they were impossible to complete because there was no longer any interest whatsoever for groups to go do them.
Click to expand...
Honestly, considering a MMO, where one of the Ms stands for MULTIPLAYER, and considering that one ought to have FRIENDS in the game, completing epic class mount quests that would required FOUR more people (or less if you count level 70 friends) besides the one who's doing the quest, was anything but impossible.

Daggah said:
Without the PvP gear you didn't stand a chance in arena.
Click to expand...
Please ..., just on Saturday night I (as PvE green/blue undergeared Priest) did 10 matches with some random noob who was hanging around in Shatt and we won 7 out of 10.

The biggest misconception in WoW is that one needs PvP gear to PvP. My holy(!) Priest has zero resilience and I do just fine in regular arenas and BGs. Yeah, I won't get to 2200 with that gear, but "no chance in arena without PvP gear" is simply false.

Yoshiyuki Blade said:
Yeah I'm having a tough time comprehending that part of his post. If he's talking about the quest to enable your mount, it was the easiest quest ever.
Click to expand...

My point was that Blizzard decided that this easy quest was too HARD, thus the option to purchase the ability was added to the game. I wish I could find the blue post right now, he said that they thought the quest may be too difficult to find or understand.
 
Thuleman said:
Honestly, considering a MMO, where one of the Ms stands for MULTIPLAYER, and considering that one ought to have FRIENDS in the game, completing epic class mount quests that would required FOUR more people (or less if you count level 70 friends) besides the one who's doing the quest, was anything but impossible.
Click to expand...

No matter how many friends you have trying to get people to go back to ancient content to get something totally not needed. locks and pallys can ride normal mounts so they dont need their class mount


Thuleman said:
Please ..., just on Saturday night I (as PvE green/blue undergeared Priest) did 10 matches with some random noob who was hanging around in Shatt and we won 7 out of 10.
Click to expand...

Insane luck or insane bullshit. Im willing to bet bullshit, care to provide an armory link?

Thuleman said:
The biggest misconception in WoW is that one needs PvP gear to PvP. My holy(!) Priest has zero resilience and I do just fine in regular arenas and BGs. Yeah, I won't get to 2200 with that gear, but "no chance in arena without PvP gear" is simply false.
Click to expand...

Really its not a misconception. Unless your extremely skilled your not going to be successful in PVE gear. Any nub team with 300+ res will slaughter even the most skilled players with no PVP gear.

Thuleman said:
My point was that Blizzard decided that this easy quest was too HARD, thus the option to purchase the ability was added to the game. I wish I could find the blue post right now, he said that they thought the quest may be too difficult to find or understand.
Click to expand...

Blizzard made the right decision. Nobody wants to go drudging through old content just to get a vanity mount for someone else.
 
pfunkman said:
Insane luck or insane bullshit. Im willing to bet bullshit, care to provide an armory link?
Click to expand...

PM'ed you the link. Still may want to sell that toon before WotLK so I don't really want it to be out there in the open.

pfunkman said:
Blizzard made the right decision. Nobody wants to go drudging through old content just to get a vanity mount for someone else.
Click to expand...

Maybe so, but trivializing that mount now really removes the e-accomplishment of those who went through the trouble to get it themselves the "legit" way.
 
Thuleman said:
Please ..., just on Saturday night I (as PvE green/blue undergeared Priest) did 10 matches with some random noob who was hanging around in Shatt and we won 7 out of 10.

The biggest misconception in WoW is that one needs PvP gear to PvP. My holy(!) Priest has zero resilience and I do just fine in regular arenas and BGs. Yeah, I won't get to 2200 with that gear, but "no chance in arena without PvP gear" is simply false.
Click to expand...

Yeahh.... I wish I could face the teams you do. If you go in with no PVP gear you will probably die from a rogue before you're out of CC. Considering most 1600+ teams have frequent S3 weps, etc, you won't really stand a chance at all. I'd like to see what you consider "fine"... is sub 1500?
 
Thuleman said:
PM'ed you the link. Still may want to sell that toon before WotLK so I don't really want it to be out there in the open.
Click to expand...

Your armory link very much proves my point. when your personal rating is sub 1500 thats not doing "just fine".

Thuleman said:
Maybe so, but trivializing that mount now really removes the e-accomplishment of those who went through the trouble to get it themselves the "legit" way.
Click to expand...

Thats how MMOs work. The new expansion almost always trivializes the old one. Most MMOs just leave the old shit in the dust and move on wow is trying to keep some things attainable.
 
Thuleman said:
Maybe so, but trivializing that mount now really removes the e-accomplishment of those who went through the trouble to get it themselves the "legit" way.
Click to expand...

How does it do that? It is just like any other content they have nerfed before. The people who did it when it was hard as hell know it and can brag about it. This applies to all nerfed content. I think blizzard is dam smart in doing this. Make the content hard and give people a shot at it and the best can get it done, after awhile nerf it so other people can enjoy the content. If blizzard did not do this more people would be left out and sorry but a business is not going to cater exclusively to the minority of players.

I don't feel that it detracts from the accomplishments of people who did things when they were tough, if anything it should mean more to those people that they kicked so much ass.
 
CryingGod said:
Casuals don't want to play a game they can't win. Casuals are a curse of the MMO industry.
Click to expand...

Only if you're expecting people to get addicted and stay paying monthly. Plenty of casual gamers play MMO's and like them. It would be great if there were casual areas and hardcore areas. I'm perfectly happy being a casual gamer and I've been playing the heck out of WOW lately... ;)

MrFace said:
Fuck it. I'm going to give the game a shot.

At worst I'll be out $40.

At best I'll have some cheap entertainment to keep me occupied in boring Mississippi.
Click to expand...

That's why I picked the game up. I love RPG's and this is like an RPG on steroids to me. Plus I have a friend who got me into the game and his guild to play with, plus my son when no one else is around. I'm hardly ever lacking in people to group with. Over the weekend I had a couple strangers who grouped with me to help me through areas when no one else was around and it worked out great. WOW is a nice way of relieving boredom IMO.
 
Thuleman said:
My point was that Blizzard decided that this easy quest was too HARD, thus the option to purchase the ability was added to the game. I wish I could find the blue post right now, he said that they thought the quest may be too difficult to find or understand.
Click to expand...
They changed it because the quest was too hard after the expansion.

If you complain that the game is too easy, give sunwell a try, or try getting season 4.
 
wtburnette said:
Only if you're expecting people to get addicted and stay paying monthly. Plenty of casual gamers play MMO's and like them. It would be great if there were casual areas and hardcore areas. I'm perfectly happy being a casual gamer and I've been playing the heck out of WOW lately... ;)



That's why I picked the game up. I love RPG's and this is like an RPG on steroids to me. Plus I have a friend who got me into the game and his guild to play with, plus my son when no one else is around. I'm hardly ever lacking in people to group with. Over the weekend I had a couple strangers who grouped with me to help me through areas when no one else was around and it worked out great. WOW is a nice way of relieving boredom IMO.
Click to expand...

It's certainly cheap entertainment. Unfortunately none of my friends play anymore but I do play with a group of adults who play very casually. Keeps me outta trouble.
 
I just wish I could get my wife to play. She loves City of Heroes and so do I, but WoW is fun too, in it's own right.
However, there is no way to make your toon unique like you can in CoH and there are no bases you can customize.

I have said this over and over again but if WoW had player/guild housing, complete character customization, customizable missions/quests, I would cancel my CoH account immediately.

On topic: I have heard plenty of people say that Northrend is a lot like pre BC WoW.

I do have this to say about the Blizzard money making machine...it's unstoppable. People(me included) are willing to pay $40+ for content which isn't half what you get with the next two free updates for City of Heroes.
 
Rozal0 said:
They changed it because the quest was too hard after the expansion.

If you complain that the game is too easy, give sunwell a try, or try getting season 4.
Click to expand...

I think we are talking about different things here, partly I am to blame because I brought the epic class mounts into the mix. Let me recap:

Thuleman said:
Yoshiyuki Blade said:
Visec said:
I mean afterall, Why should killing GODS and killing Dragons require a coordinated group of people. Just fucking make everything soloable. YEAH WOOHOO! thats it! sounds like fucking awesome.
Click to expand...
lol. This is the most classic example of a slippery-slope fallacy.
Click to expand...
Tbh, WoW is slippery-slope in action.

[...]
WotLK Epic flyer quest too hard? No biggie, we will nerf the quest PRIOR to release, just buy your epic WotLK flyer [ability] at a vendor.

... and so on, and so on.
Click to expand...

The point I was trying to make is that there is literally no challenge left in the game, and nothing that will set the truly good people apart from the Joe the Plumbers of this World.

That makes good business sense (obviously, 11+ mil subs don't lie), but it also makes WoW like Toon Town Online. That is why people get bored, because there is no challenge, and whatever challenges there may be left for some do not yield any real rewards because there is no way to make your character stand out from the crowd.

I think we can all agree that people who get gear to show it off don't get that gear for themselves, they get it to stand on the AH bridge in IF all day to show their epeen.

There is next to no epeenery left in WoW, the Deathcharger is one, the Raven mount (forget the name), Thori'dal would count, but by and large there is simply nothing left to make your toon any different from the other 24703707240273 toons on the server.

All I am saying that if you are looking to be visibly exceptional, you are SOL in WoW.

Edit:
Contrary to how it may appear, I am not a WoW hater, I play the game, and I enjoy it. It just gets under my skin when people come out and say that it is hard, which it really is not. It's only hard if one doesn't bother to look beyond pretty gear graphics to understand game mechanics.
 
Thuleman said:
I think we are talking about different things here, partly I am to blame because I brought the epic class mounts into the mix. Let me recap:



The point I was trying to make is that there is literally no challenge left in the game, and nothing that will set the truly good people apart from the Joe the Plumbers of this World.

That makes good business sense (obviously, 11+ mil subs don't lie), but it also makes WoW like Toon Town Online. That is why people get bored, because there is no challenge, and whatever challenges there may be left for some do not yield any real rewards because there is no way to make your character stand out from the crowd.

I think we can all agree that people who get gear to show it off don't get that gear for themselves, they get it to stand on the AH bridge in IF all day to show their epeen.

There is next to no epeenery left in WoW, the Deathcharger is one, the Raven mount (forget the name), Thori'dal would count, but by and large there is simply nothing left to make your toon any different from the other 24703707240273 toons on the server.

All I am saying that if you are looking to be visibly exceptional, you are SOL in WoW.

Edit:
Contrary to how it may appear, I am not a WoW hater, I play the game, and I enjoy it. It just gets under my skin when people come out and say that it is hard, which it really is not. It's only hard if one doesn't bother to look beyond pretty gear graphics to understand game mechanics.
Click to expand...

Okay.. what happened with Sunwell, the hardest raid in the game to date? No challenge there?
And season 4, which takes quite the effort to get. It is very rare to find someone fully decked out.
Season 4 takes less effort but more skill than rank 14.

So what's the problem? PvE is fine, Arenas are fine, BG's will be fine soon. (They announced plans in the future to add a ranked system)
 
Thuleman said:
WotLK Epic flyer quest too hard? No biggie, we will nerf the quest PRIOR to release, just buy your epic WotLK flyer [ability] at a vendor.

... and so on, and so on.
Click to expand...

Ahh i misunderstood so you just have absolutely no clue then. Thats exactly how you always have gotten your epic flight skill there has never even been a quest attached to it to even nerf...

Druids have the epic flight form quest but even that requires that you BUY the epic flight skill.

No, your definitely not a wow hater your just a fresh 70 noob that thinks hes got it all figured out and barely has half a clue.
 
Endgame raids and arena still have ways to tell you apart from the players. I for one, just don't see many people around wearing tier 6.5 gear. When I do, I think to myself "Man that guy must be doing some high end raiding."

On the PvP side of things, if I ever see someone sporting some S4 shoulders, I know they're within the top .5% of the ladder. You might think "Wtf shoulders? Big deal." From a stat perspective, it really is no big deal. Blizzard did this intentionally because they don't want to lock the vast majority of players from a significant amount of stats. If differentiating yourself from the n00b players is that important, it doesn't really matter anyway. In fact, it may have more value, because the entire player base is on a more level playing field (full s2 gear currently being the baseline for arena PvP). Like Daggah mentioned a few posts up, trickling PvP gear down to the honor system was necessary to keep opportunity to arena viable. Otherwise, new players would simply be locked out due to the sheer gear difference.

You might also think "Yeah, but that's just an excuse to get crappy players some good gear." S2 is pretty decent gear, but from a "meaningful" perspective, its about as worthless as anything else that's farmable. If you can't ignore the shinyness and cool looks that people sported 2 seasons ago, you just need to adjust. It's not meaningful anymore as things shifted to s3 and s4.
 
pfunkman said:
Ahh i misunderstood so you just have absolutely no clue then. Thats exactly how you always have gotten your epic flight skill there has never even been a quest attached to it to even nerf...
Click to expand...
Not true for WotLK. Initially Cold Weather Flying required to assit Pilot Vic with two quests. Only after Blizzard decided that for whatever bizarre reasons those quests were too hard the ability to purchase Cold Weather Flying was implemented.

Thank you, come again.
 
pfunkman said:
Ahh i misunderstood so you just have absolutely no clue then. Thats exactly how you always have gotten your epic flight skill there has never even been a quest attached to it to even nerf...

Druids have the epic flight form quest but even that requires that you BUY the epic flight skill.

No, your definitely not a wow hater your just a fresh 70 noob that thinks hes got it all figured out and barely has half a clue.
Click to expand...


there WAS a quest in WoTLK to get chill wind flying which allows you to use your flying mount in Northrend, that quest was removed and you simply buy the skill now. you cant use a flying mount in Northrend (even if you already have one) until lvl 77.

I honestly didn't miss not having a flying mount 70-77, but once you hit 77 and get to storm peaks a flying mount is a must.
 
Thuleman said:
Not true for WotLK. Initially Cold Weather Flying required to assit Pilot Vic with two quests. Only after Blizzard decided that for whatever bizarre reasons those quests were too hard the ability to purchase Cold Weather Flying was implemented.

Thank you, come again.
Click to expand...

Ahh i see what you mean. Still stupid though.

The fact that you even have to do anything to be able to fly in WoTLK has alot of people pissed off especially those like myself that spent all the time grinding my ass off for an epic flyer.

Fact is you keep bitching about blizzard trivializing things when its just the natural progression of things. Unlike every other mmo they actually listen to the players.
 
Thuleman said:
Not true for WotLK. Initially Cold Weather Flying required to assit Pilot Vic with two quests. Only after Blizzard decided that for whatever bizarre reasons those quests were too hard the ability to purchase Cold Weather Flying was implemented.

Thank you, come again.
Click to expand...

Plus for the really lazy you can even "barrow" a flying mount for the quests in areas that require one :rolleyes:
 
Long thread short.. if you didn't like BC, you wont like WOTLK. Wait for the next failmmo to come out.
 
the main beef I had with TBC was that stupid space shit, I liked the original continent with the orcs and dragons and emerald dream and stuff

or maybe it was the arena

or the primal farming

or the neutral city

or the 25 mans
 
i love threads like this. it gives me hope that one day WoW will be completely dead. thanks everyone for participating :)

i guess spending 20 seconds every couple of days thinking about how much i hated my experience in wow is starting to pay off. im guessing that my thoughts are beginning to channel themselves into some sort of ethereal-bore that is slowly grinding away straight through the heart and mentalities of all those that are affiliated with wow.

if there is a god, thanks dude. you rock!
 
radiatinglines said:
or the neutral city

or the 25 mans
Click to expand...

The rest i can see but neutral cities have existed since day 1 and if you cant stand BC 25 mans you would have fucking hated PRE-BC raiding.

Apathy said:
i love threads like this. it gives me hope that one day WoW will be completely dead. thanks everyone for participating

i guess spending 20 seconds every couple of days thinking about how much i hated my experience in wow is starting to pay off. im guessing that my thoughts are beginning to channel themselves into some sort of ethereal-bore that is slowly grinding away straight through the heart and mentalities of all those that are affiliated with wow.

if there is a god, thanks dude. you rock!
Click to expand...

Not to burst your bubble but wow just hit 11 million and continues to grow its not unlikely that you will die before wow does.
 
radiatinglines said:
by neutral I mean sanctuary

and I liked doing big raids before BC
Click to expand...

Nobody likes raiding. True story.

You don't do it because you like it, you do it because of the sense of progress. Before you get it all done, it's as frustrating as trying to break a brick wall with your face, and after you get it all done, it's as boring as watching paint dry.
 
krameriffic said:
Nobody likes raiding. True story.

You don't do it because you like it, you do it because of the sense of progress. Before you get it all done, it's as frustrating as trying to break a brick wall with your face, and after you get it all done, it's as boring as watching paint dry.
Click to expand...

thanks for telling us our likes and dislikes!

on my next raid i promise not to have any fun at all:rolleyes:
 
If you're terrible at Arenas of course it won't be fun.

I don't play WOW anymore but the only reason I did play is for arenas.

l2p

As far as pve goes, find a game that has better group PvE...
 
If you liked TBC, you'll like WotLK. If you didn't, WotLK probably won't do much for you, it's as simple as that.

If you didn't like end-game but liked everything up until that point, then you may want to pick it up anyway. Think of it this way: you've bought $50-60 single player PC RPG games that last maybe 50-100 hours and thought that was a good deal. You buy WotLK plus three months subscription for $85 at most and for probably 300-400 hours (if you want to squeeze all those hours into those months) of playtime. Think of going from 70-80 or 55-80 (or both, or even more) like a fairly decent single player RPG. There's absolutely nothing wrong with picking it up and stopping after you've hit the cap. No one is forcing you to grind endgame. If you only have fun maxing out the cap then have fun doing that.

If you're really tired of WoW I suggest just not picking it up. Regardless of what Blizzard does to WoW, it'll still be WoW at the end of the day. You're not going to download a patch and find yourself in EVE Online one day. WoW is WoW is WoW.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top