How is WOTLK compared to BC?

Neurofreeze said:
If you liked TBC, you'll like WotLK. If you didn't, WotLK probably won't do much for you, it's as simple as that.

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Not sure why people keep saying this. TBC bored the shit out of me, in beta WoTLK kept me entertained for hours on end. I leveled 2 death knights to 80 (1 alliance, 1 horde)

Its still WoW, that hasn't changed but WoTLK is a lot more fun than TBC IMO.
 
leezard said:
Not sure why people keep saying this. TBC bored the shit out of me, in beta WoTLK kept me entertained for hours on end. I leveled 2 death knights to 80 (1 alliance, 1 horde)

Its still WoW, that hasn't changed but WoTLK is a lot more fun than TBC IMO.
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What about it do you find more fun?
 
Honestly I wish blizzard would make another RTS of the warcraft universe.

TBC kept me entertained for a while, I reached 70, but the ride there was boring as shit, and I kept questing for money since I hit 70 before I even finished the swamp zone, and thats when I noticed that all the beasts were the same just bigger and re skinned.

Then I switched servers to one that had more people and joined a raiding guild, but unfortuantely for me my shedule for work keeps me till at least 7-8pm CST, so I was usually on by the time the raids started.

After that I gave WoW the finger. It felt like a job having to schedule raiding around my work schedule and my family life. For now I'll stick to my RTS and FPS games, and non MMO RPG games.
 
Rofl-Mic-Lofl said:
What about it do you find more fun?
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A lot of the new quests are cool, there are a ton of non instanced pvp areas and more pvp daily quests. Lake wintergrasp pvp is the most fun I've had pvping since the days of relentlessly assaulting tauren mill. Don't get me wrong, there's still a lot of "go kill 15 of these mobs and come back and tell me" quests, but there's also a ton of quests that were just fun IMO.



It was just all in all more entertaining and didn't "feel" like the grind fest that TBC did IMO.
 
leezard said:
A lot of the new quests are cool, there are a ton of non instanced pvp areas and more pvp daily quests. Lake wintergrasp pvp is the most fun I've had pvping since the days of relentlessly assaulting tauren mill. Don't get me wrong, there's still a lot of "go kill 15 of these mobs and come back and tell me" quests, but there's also a ton of quests that were just fun IMO.



It was just all in all more entertaining and didn't "feel" like the grind fest that TBC did IMO.
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Nice.

I'm really excited about Lake Wintergrasp. Maybe I'll actually bring my Disc Priest out of retirement (Who am I kidding, Ill keep with the Druid :p)
 
I'm just hoping Newegg gets the game to me on launch day. With reports of some retailers having the game in possession already I don't see why they wouldn't have it here by Thursday.
 
leezard said:
It was just all in all more entertaining and didn't "feel" like the grind fest that TBC did IMO.
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Honestly, I have no idea where the "TBC was a grind" sentiment comes from. Perhaps you tried to rush to 70?

Let's start by saying that most quests in most MMOs are either FedEx or Search and Destroy. TBC was no different (and no different than Classic) although there were some amusing series if you bothered to read the dialog.

Other than that, to me it didn't feel like a grind at all. It was a "natural" progression from zone to zone and you could stay with the linear progression from Blade's Edge to Netherstorm, or you could skip most of BE and head straight for Nether at a lower level, or you could head to Shadow.

Imho it's only a grind if you make it one. The variety of quests and locations gave one a good illusion of that not everything is the same (which, of course, it is).

I have a hard time to understand why some players are stuck at 69 or 69 for literally weeks. It's a finite amount of XP needed, add up the quest XP alone and you know how many quests you need to run, the kill xp is extra.

I have done the 60 to 70 part three times now, and I didn't find it boring at all, each time I went a different route past 65, and neither took long at all (when I say that I am comparing it to leveling in EQ).
 
MrFace said:
I'm just hoping Newegg gets the game to me on launch day. With reports of some retailers having the game in possession already I don't see why they wouldn't have it here by Thursday.
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Newegg tells me they can't guarantee it so I canceled my order with them. Tough luck!
 
WotLK (from what I've played in the beta) is the best World of Warcraft experience I've ever had. I liked the Old World more than BC, and what I've seen in Northrend really makes me happy. It's like Warcraft, like the way I used to know it, without all the sci-fi fantasy stuff that got into BC.
 
If you spent last 2 years in BC/WoW leveling 60-70 might seem moot and mundane, but content and overall level design from 60-70 was really well done. BC had tons of fun quests the zones were sexy. I remember being high as fuck quest leveling through netherstorm, hellfire, that mountain zone, pretty much all leveling throughout BC was a blast.

I just absurdly disagree about them focusing Arena and the attention Arena had at 70. MMORPG's should be about epic gear gained through PVE. By EPIC battles. Turning an RPG into a FPS does not work there will always be a flavor of the month class and shit will never be balanced. logging into a tiny room for 2 hours a week gaining honor points because free epics are just good enough to raid with hardly any time or effort is the shit I hated. Everyone looked the same wearing welfare handout PVP epics. I know some people love arena, but fuck, leave FPSing to FPS genre. It's like PVE the portion of the game what WoW SHOULD've been took a backseat.
 
PvPers got three arenas, one battleground, a bunch of useless World PvP objectives that people only did for the PvE buffs/rewards and were ghost towns because they were so hard to get into. PvE players got Karazhan, Gruul's Lair, Magtheridon's Lair, Serpentshrine Cavern, Tempest Keep: Eye, Black Temple, Mount Hyjal, Sunwell Plateau, about 15 new 5-man instances, ANOTHER 5-man added with Sunwell, a bunch of new questing zones (Netherwing, Shattered Sun, Skettis, Ogri'la) with badass rewards, not to mention the recent Scourge Invasion with the extra boss in Karazhan or Headless Horseman.

PvE hardly took a backseat.
 
I disagree. PVE raid zones are definately available.. but no one's gonna want to raid them when you can spend ~1 hour a week in Arena's getting Arena purples that practically are just as good.

Back before BC epics were actually rare..

What I didn't like about BC is how trivialized 'epics' became. Everyone has them. If everybody has it it's not exactly epic. Is it :p

If PVP was an afterthough a sort of sidegame people just do for fun - like should've happened in BC, people might actually WANT to PVE. Have some drive for killing bosses and dragons for their EPIC loot they'd actually WANT to Massively Multiplayer Online Roleplay Game.

But no - free purples in arena - why the fuck should they.
 
also it's pretty stupid that they have 6 million people paying $15 a month, and yet they don't even bother to design new armor

raid geear is usually some pre-BC shit with a slightly different color; and the fact that PvP gear looks just like tier gear is outright disgusting. lazy bastards.
 
leezard said:
A lot of the new quests are cool, there are a ton of non instanced pvp areas and more pvp daily quests. Lake wintergrasp pvp is the most fun I've had pvping since the days of relentlessly assaulting tauren mill. Don't get me wrong, there's still a lot of "go kill 15 of these mobs and come back and tell me" quests, but there's also a ton of quests that were just fun IMO.
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I liked questing in WotLK too. However people almost always tend to overlook everything up to the lvl 80 cap.

*spoilers*

One of my favorite quest chains was in Sholazar Basin where you find yourself caught in the conflict between the Frenzyheart Tribe and The Oracles. Its such a cute little adventure that lets you see both sides of the conflict. I really have to commend the authors of the questline. Without all the grammar, dialect, culture and mannerisms the devs created between the two tribes, it would most certainly have been "meh." People just don't think about this stuff, or don't care. Its a shame, imo.
 
pfunkman said:
Not to burst your bubble but wow just hit 11 million and continues to grow its not unlikely that you will die before wow does.
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well, without being stupid and pointlessly arguing about the actual sub numbers, active/multi-account, etc...

yea, you're probably close to absolutely right. blizzard is just too amazing of a company to do anything game-breaking to wow in my opinion. im just a grind hater. especially when the grind doesnt lead to me being able to pwn nubs in leet pvp. and stuff.

never played arena wow, but from what people are saying about it, doesnt sound very fun to me. i preferred the DAOC style pvp. frontiers, keeps, and those special things you could steal to give your entire realm a bonus to dps/resists and whatever else there was.

one thing i do know for sure however, is that there will be a new game released at some point, and most certainly before i die, that will suck a very large portion of wow players away from their PvE grindfest. its just another game that will be used to build on, and maybe eventually, someone will get the PvE, PvP, loot, grind, lag, zones, leveling, class balancing, and everything else that makes a game to a point where it is near perfect.

but yea, im willing to concede that ^this^ will never happen in my lifetime.

until then, its eve, eve, eve, fallout 3, eve, gears, eve, little big planet, gta4, and then more eve.
 
Apathy said:
one thing i do know for sure however, is that there will be a new game released at some point, and most certainly before i die, that will suck a very large portion of wow players away from their PvE grindfest. its just another game that will be used to build on, and maybe eventually, someone will get the PvE, PvP, loot, grind, lag, zones, leveling, class balancing, and everything else that makes a game to a point where it is near perfect.
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I'll bet money it'll be Blizzard's next MMO currently in development. :D
 
I doubt that.

A WoW killer will have to be a conceptually different MMO. One that provides the same amount of instant gratification that WoW does without appearing to be as trivial as WoW is. Something that has actual dynamic content rather than being stuck in pre-scripted content and actions all the time.

Blizzard is too much of a money making machine to come up with something like that. I can see Google, or Amazon, or someone who already has all the computing infrastructure in place to run an MMO on thousands of virtual machines.

The killer MMO will be one that is entertaining and unpredictable. Something where you can not look up what the loot will be, or what the strat for some encounter is, because all this stuff is procedurally allocated and 100% dynamic in response to player controlled events as well as to random factors (i.e. tied to real world weather, or real world stock market, or something like that).

MMOs are plagued by repetition and ultimately boredom. Avoid repetition, and you will be making trillions entertaining people. Just like on TV, re-runs are only entertaining for so long.
 
Thuleman said:
I doubt that.

A WoW killer will have to be a conceptually different MMO. One that provides the same amount of instant gratification that WoW does without appearing to be as trivial as WoW is. Something that has actual dynamic content rather than being stuck in pre-scripted content and actions all the time.

Blizzard is too much of a money making machine to come up with something like that. I can see Google, or Amazon, or someone who already has all the computing infrastructure in place to run an MMO on thousands of virtual machines.

The killer MMO will be one that is entertaining and unpredictable. Something where you can not look up what the loot will be, or what the strat for some encounter is, because all this stuff is procedurally allocated and 100% dynamic in response to player controlled events as well as to random factors (i.e. tied to real world weather, or real world stock market, or something like that).

MMOs are plagued by repetition and ultimately boredom. Avoid repetition, and you will be making trillions entertaining people. Just like on TV, re-runs are only entertaining for so long.
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I see where you're getting at, but at the same time, I think your idea of a WoW-killer is a game you'd personally like to see (instead of a game that has mass appeal). WoW's mechanics is far from perfect, but even the most dynamic and unpredictable MMO can be torn to shreds without the right ingredients. There's more to it than pure gameplay dynamics.

I'd too like to see a change of playstyles in the MMO industry, but I think it's going to take a lot more than new and cool ideas.
 
Was looking through some comparisons to see if they improved upon BC. Just wanted to comment on what a WoW killer would be. Only another well developed and creative content filled theme park MMO can be the next WoW Killer and only company with that can do that with deep pockets and quality developers is Blizzard.
There are only 2 play styles in the MMO industry: theme park and sandbox. I prefer sandbox (ultima online) myself but it will forever be niche. Because of the success of WoW and its influence on the masses it has shaped what people believe to be "the MMO and what it should be like".
Any deviation is a risk, and its going to be like this for a long time.
 
Another thing to consider is that mass appeal isn't necessary.
Sure, WoW may have 11 million subs, that's probably around 2 million real customers considering that most players have 2 accounts and many have more than that, and that farmers have hundreds of accounts.

Be that as it may, look at CCP and EVE Online, probably around 30,000 real customers, a great game, and a profit maker for the company, even enough profit to release yearly FREE expansions.

I don't think you need to be able to front millions of dollars in development costs, all you need is an idea and the know-how.
 
@Thuleman hence the term Niche. WoW Killer and mass appeal are mutually inclusive.
 
Thuleman said:
I don't think you need to be able to front millions of dollars in development costs, all you need is an idea and the know-how.
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I can assure you the millions of dollars would be more than necessary to even compete with the low end item mall type MMOs. You will never see a low budget MMO trounce the king in your lifetime.

If an idea and the know how is all you needed the gaming industry would be very different.
 
Spectrum17 said:
You beat me by two days,

I just go my copy of the CE from GoGamer today.
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Nah, I still won't see my copy until Friday at the latest most likely. I'm just glad Newegg shipped it a week early at least so I don't have to wait that much longer for it to get here (deployed overseas, APO shipping takes longer)
 
Thuleman said:
Another thing to consider is that mass appeal isn't necessary.
Sure, WoW may have 11 million subs, that's probably around 2 million real customers considering that most players have 2 accounts and many have more than that, and that farmers have hundreds of accounts.

Be that as it may, look at CCP and EVE Online, probably around 30,000 real customers, a great game, and a profit maker for the company, even enough profit to release yearly FREE expansions.

I don't think you need to be able to front millions of dollars in development costs, all you need is an idea and the know-how.
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Alright, WoW census shows about 6 Million unique in Europe and US.
 
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