Do you plan to use aRGB? If not, then go probably 2490WUXi way. Unless you like larger pixels
i suppose using aRGB is better for photo editing? i dunno therefore i m still looking for an answer for all these questions/terms @.@
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NEC LCD2690
- Thread starter travbomb
- Start date
i suppose using aRGB is better for photo editing? i dunno therefore i m still looking for an answer for all these questions/terms @.@
I have actually just got another spyder 3 to see if mine is defective. The answer is... All spyder 3 cannot calibrate the monitor perfectly.
Basically Gamut is wrong and the RGB white value from 250 to 255 is all blown out.
In order to test the hightlight value, you have to go to preference of SVII and change the setting from 32 steps to 256 steps.
PS. The new spyder 3 actually got a even smaller gamut tested than my previous spyder 3.
can someone do the curve with 256 steps with eye-one display 2 for me to see if I should go buy it?
Thx
Basically Gamut is wrong and the RGB white value from 250 to 255 is all blown out.
In order to test the hightlight value, you have to go to preference of SVII and change the setting from 32 steps to 256 steps.
PS. The new spyder 3 actually got a even smaller gamut tested than my previous spyder 3.
can someone do the curve with 256 steps with eye-one display 2 for me to see if I should go buy it?
Thx
Frankly, this is one of those things that if you don't know why you need something then don't get it.
If you don't know what aRGB is, about colour management, calibration or the term "colour managed workflow" even if you DO photography you still don't need the wide gamut monitors.
complicated
n00b
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2008
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After returning 2 Planar 26" and 3 NEC 2690 for 1 1/2 month, I finally have a perfect NEC 2690 LCD monitor on my desk now. So far I don't see any dead/stuck pixel, the image is sharp and the color is really nice. The serial # is start with 851. I am very happy with it !
Lastly, if you are a serious LCD buyer and looking for a great return policy ? Just go with CDW. You wouldn't be disappointed !
Lastly, if you are a serious LCD buyer and looking for a great return policy ? Just go with CDW. You wouldn't be disappointed !
Does the A-TW polarizer really make a difference? I just do office work, web browser, look at photos, write a lot in word processors, and play the occasional game, etc.
I mean spending $753 on Amazon for the Doublesight 263N (without A-TW) and $1232 for the NEC 2690 is a huge difference.
Seriously, is the A-TW worth $500 for what I do above?
I mean spending $753 on Amazon for the Doublesight 263N (without A-TW) and $1232 for the NEC 2690 is a huge difference.
Seriously, is the A-TW worth $500 for what I do above?
complicated
n00b
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- Jul 23, 2008
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You can see the difference here :
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1268063&page=14
Doublesight 263N (without A-TW) is more than enough for normal work. You can save the extra cash or use it to upgrade your PC. Place your order with a good reputation online retailer just in case you need to return it for a replacement/exchange.
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1268063&page=14
Doublesight 263N (without A-TW) is more than enough for normal work. You can save the extra cash or use it to upgrade your PC. Place your order with a good reputation online retailer just in case you need to return it for a replacement/exchange.
DS 263 with or without a pol. is like a Camry with or without leather interior.
DS 263 without a pol. vs NEC 2690 is like Camry without leather interior vs Mercedes-Benz with leather interior.
Is this difference worth your money? It's up to you.
Nope,
I don't have the blown out highlights. What target are you calibrating to?
I'll assume you are using DVI-D and your monitor is in programmable mode?
What is your calibration priority? Greyscale tracking or maximum contrast?
Have you tried it with 32 calibration steps instead of 256?
I don't have the blown out highlights. What target are you calibrating to?
I'll assume you are using DVI-D and your monitor is in programmable mode?
What is your calibration priority? Greyscale tracking or maximum contrast?
Have you tried it with 32 calibration steps instead of 256?
complicated
n00b
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- Jul 23, 2008
- Messages
- 20
You won't be able to hear the buzzing noise unless you put your ear on the top of the display. I don't have any issue with the buzzing noise.
Any normal local computer store tapped into the Canadian distributors can get you anything in the channel. If you are looking for stock, forget it. This will be a special order item.
Here is an example of web store that exposes the distributor stock and I have ordered from them, but anything they can get, your local computer shop can order and that is how I get everything these days.
http://www.cendirect.com/main_en/tech_specs_JO60571G.html
Here is an example of web store that exposes the distributor stock and I have ordered from them, but anything they can get, your local computer shop can order and that is how I get everything these days.
http://www.cendirect.com/main_en/tech_specs_JO60571G.html
alright... so anyone know which one of those e-trailer has good return policy? becuz there is real long list of them and i dunno all of them... and like some ppl said... sometimes u r just unlucky and get the one of those bad displays and might to be return it for a new one... and i heard it could be troublesome sometimes too... like itz cheaper but bad return policy and sometimes charge so much for the shipping and stuff @.@
and also would u ppl recommend the SV version or just get the XRite i1? becuz i want to calibrate other monitors too so i dunno which one would be a better choice? or cheaper? lol
Thanks
KeymaN
and also would u ppl recommend the SV version or just get the XRite i1? becuz i want to calibrate other monitors too so i dunno which one would be a better choice? or cheaper? lol
Thanks
KeymaN
Adding the SV gets you an EyeOne and the NEC SV software to use it for something like $150. Ordering just the NEC Software is >$150.
As I mentioned this will be a special order anywhere. Which means if you return it you will very likely pay a restock fee (~15%). Don't buy this (or any special order item) on a whim. Be sure you want it. Now if there is something wrong with it. Contact NEC Canada to fix it. I believe 10E dealt with them and they were first rate.
On where to buy, ask people about a good local computer store. Go there and ask them to order it for you. You will likely save shipping.
Get the SV version of the monitor for reasons already stated. Plus you can apparently download the general purpose X-Rite software for the calibrator, for free (to use on other monitors).
You have a link for this? X-Rite has kind of abandoned a couple of segments of their users after their multiple mergers and I'm a little screwed for Vista x64 support now. Is this a NEC free-download or an X-Rite free download?
i1 Match software for the i1 Display range of products:
http://www.xrite.com/product_overview.aspx?ID=788&Action=Support&SoftwareID=724
http://www.xrite.com/product_overview.aspx?ID=788&Action=Support&SoftwareID=724
Note from the link provided by mlewis:
"The new version of i1Match v3.6.2 now runs under Vista 64-bit and includes new device drivers for the i1Pro and i1iO devices."
Yeah, I have the Monaco Optix XR/DTP94. Many reviewers and users thought it was the better colorimeter, but when X-Rite bought Monaco they opted to support the EyeOne instead. I was hoping maybe this mentioned software would have support for the DTP94 as well. I'll check it out.
I bought mine from a Greater Toronto company's web site > www.1c2c.ca.
My original unit had a very loose panel and a number of stuck pixels. I initiated a call with NEC Canada and they told me that they didn't have any in stock here, so they delivered me a unit from Illinois within two business days. The replacement was perfect. The service was top notch and I am extremely happy with my current unit in every way.
These monitors always have a slightly loose panel that tightens up after warm up due to heat expansion. If you were to call them for a dead pixel they likely won't replace the unit, but the excuse of a loose panel can always get one from them. My original had like 9 stuck bright green pixels so I could have used that as a complaint as well.
I would highly recommend the SV version (LCD2690WUXI-SV) even if you are not a photo pro, because this screen is far, far better with calibration.
Because it's a wide gamut monitor, in native/factory mode, the reds, greens and blues are exceptionally strong, to the point of nuisance (IMHO). I recently reset the monitor to factory defaults and was shocked by the amount of color saturation/strength. I then calibrated using SpectraView II to sRGB, Gamma 2.2, and 6500 kelvin color temperature, and the colors are definitely much closer to my other calibrated, standard gamut monitors.
This is the major selling point of this screen vs. competition. Other 26" IPS monitors can be calibrated, but the NEC can be calibrated internally and this can be applied to all connectors/devices, whereas with others, the work is done by an ICM profile, and only applies to PC connections, so if you are using a console, the colors will be "uncalibrated".
But I would echo what Snowdog is saying. Ensure that this is really the monitor for you. I'm not doubting that it is, but due to the relatively large outlay of cash, you don't want to be paying $200.00 for restocking and shipping fees if you don't like it.
It is a gorgeous screen with many unique features, but it's definitely a Prosumer, or "conoisseur" level monitor.
My original unit had a very loose panel and a number of stuck pixels. I initiated a call with NEC Canada and they told me that they didn't have any in stock here, so they delivered me a unit from Illinois within two business days. The replacement was perfect. The service was top notch and I am extremely happy with my current unit in every way.
These monitors always have a slightly loose panel that tightens up after warm up due to heat expansion. If you were to call them for a dead pixel they likely won't replace the unit, but the excuse of a loose panel can always get one from them. My original had like 9 stuck bright green pixels so I could have used that as a complaint as well.
I would highly recommend the SV version (LCD2690WUXI-SV) even if you are not a photo pro, because this screen is far, far better with calibration.
Because it's a wide gamut monitor, in native/factory mode, the reds, greens and blues are exceptionally strong, to the point of nuisance (IMHO). I recently reset the monitor to factory defaults and was shocked by the amount of color saturation/strength. I then calibrated using SpectraView II to sRGB, Gamma 2.2, and 6500 kelvin color temperature, and the colors are definitely much closer to my other calibrated, standard gamut monitors.
This is the major selling point of this screen vs. competition. Other 26" IPS monitors can be calibrated, but the NEC can be calibrated internally and this can be applied to all connectors/devices, whereas with others, the work is done by an ICM profile, and only applies to PC connections, so if you are using a console, the colors will be "uncalibrated".
But I would echo what Snowdog is saying. Ensure that this is really the monitor for you. I'm not doubting that it is, but due to the relatively large outlay of cash, you don't want to be paying $200.00 for restocking and shipping fees if you don't like it.
It is a gorgeous screen with many unique features, but it's definitely a Prosumer, or "conoisseur" level monitor.
I am curious about this as well. You can't really change the gamut. The RGB filters have set values.
I suspect that out of the box there are some color errors, that make the monitor extra vibrant looking. Once you actually calibrate it to D65 and a consistent gamma curve, you now have a monitor that is within spec for it's color space, much less vibrant than when out of calibration. But still more vibrant that a true sRGB monitor.
If you profile it, it should still show wider gamut and if you load that profile a color aware app (Like firefox 3 with color awareness turned on) should look different than a non color aware FF 2.
Snowdog,
It is possible to calibrate some wide gamut monitors to sRGB. The calibration does its trick by programming the right color mappings in the monitor LUT (the color space is effectively shrunk to a subset of what the monitor is capable of.) The Eizo ColorNavigator software does this very well on some Eizo models, but I haven't seen support for this in the NEC SpectraView II software.
It is possible to calibrate some wide gamut monitors to sRGB. The calibration does its trick by programming the right color mappings in the monitor LUT (the color space is effectively shrunk to a subset of what the monitor is capable of.) The Eizo ColorNavigator software does this very well on some Eizo models, but I haven't seen support for this in the NEC SpectraView II software.
I would really like to know how they do this. It doesn't matter if red output is at 10, 50, 100, 200, or 255. The frequency of the light red primary doesn't change, only the amount changes, so how do you limit it? You can't change the color of red.
I can see how you could get a a lot mixed color to work. You do the math and figure out what different amounts of your different primaries you need to get to create the same final color mix as a different color space. You pretty much need a full lookup table of 16.7 million values remapped when you do this. That does seem possible for a lot of mixed color, but I just don't get how you change the R,G,B primaries. Mix some green and blue with red to give your new "Red".?? It still seems that if you measred it, the full frequency of the red component would be there.
I don't think it is a trivial problem and I don't think the NEC is doing anything like this. Merely using the same Gama curve as sRGB doesn't change the color gamut.
I can see how you could get a a lot mixed color to work. You do the math and figure out what different amounts of your different primaries you need to get to create the same final color mix as a different color space. You pretty much need a full lookup table of 16.7 million values remapped when you do this. That does seem possible for a lot of mixed color, but I just don't get how you change the R,G,B primaries. Mix some green and blue with red to give your new "Red".?? It still seems that if you measred it, the full frequency of the red component would be there.
I don't think it is a trivial problem and I don't think the NEC is doing anything like this. Merely using the same Gama curve as sRGB doesn't change the color gamut.
Sorry, I was mistaken. Getting old !
I calibrated to the sRGB GAMMA CURVE, and then I also tried the SMPTE/NTSC curve to see the differences, as I also have a cable box capable of 720p and want to use it on the NEC. The NEC doesn't support interlacing over DVI, so 720p is the max non-interlaced resolution I can use.
It's quite possible as Snowdog mentioned, that the monitor comes from the factory with everything blown out, maybe to incent people to buy SVII, because calibrating to sRGB or NTSC gamma curve brings a bit less saturation than native. Not a huge difference, but a somewhat noticeable one. Compared to factory the difference is night and day.
It's fairly easy for me to compare because I have a standard gamut (calibrated) monitor next to the NEC and the colors are quite close in both saturation and character. I use both obvious greens and reds to compare the "ramp" up between both displays, and the "middle saturation" or mid tones of both to see what the differences are. I would estimate visually that they are quite close, and this is fine for me. The NEC does a great job of tracking darks, and I'm lucky that my panel is nearly flawless, with very low back light uniformity issues. I can only notice this with a camera set at a very fast exposure to maximize the effect.
I also used my G2400W profile in Windows Beasta to compare if the profile is doing all the work, and it seems to be doing almost none. Other than some brightness changes, careful scrutiny of test images only shows a brightness change with midtones to darks. The reason I used that profile is because the G2400W out of the factory (outside of being TN) has very good fidelity to sRGB (I think average D E94 is like 1.3 based on Basiccolor 4.1.8)
Compared to my standard gamut display, strong greens are not so much more saturated on the NEC as to create a large difference, and with green it is most obvious, simply because it is what we are most sensitive to visually.
I'm going to re-calibrate my other display with BC 4.1.8 tonight to re-evaluate and compare the two, though the other display is running about 20 cdm/2 brighter. I'll also load back the sRGB gamma calibration target in SVII and go through a bunch of test images to see.
What I'm also trying to find, is (as mentioned by Tamblin_WSGF) is how I can enable ATI's gamut conversion. I read about it, but so far I can't find anything about it beyond what he pointed to. Apparently it only works in Beasta on 48x0 series cards, but so far, I've found very little on this.
My interest here is to find what can be done at the video card level to compensate for the "purer" reds, greens, and blues of the wide gamut screen.
Though I can say, that compared to other wide gamut screens I've seen, even after calibration, the NEC does a pretty good job of somehow simulating a decent approximation of sRGB, so ultimately I'm quite satisfied with this display in basically every regard.
I calibrated to the sRGB GAMMA CURVE, and then I also tried the SMPTE/NTSC curve to see the differences, as I also have a cable box capable of 720p and want to use it on the NEC. The NEC doesn't support interlacing over DVI, so 720p is the max non-interlaced resolution I can use.
It's quite possible as Snowdog mentioned, that the monitor comes from the factory with everything blown out, maybe to incent people to buy SVII, because calibrating to sRGB or NTSC gamma curve brings a bit less saturation than native. Not a huge difference, but a somewhat noticeable one. Compared to factory the difference is night and day.
It's fairly easy for me to compare because I have a standard gamut (calibrated) monitor next to the NEC and the colors are quite close in both saturation and character. I use both obvious greens and reds to compare the "ramp" up between both displays, and the "middle saturation" or mid tones of both to see what the differences are. I would estimate visually that they are quite close, and this is fine for me. The NEC does a great job of tracking darks, and I'm lucky that my panel is nearly flawless, with very low back light uniformity issues. I can only notice this with a camera set at a very fast exposure to maximize the effect.
I also used my G2400W profile in Windows Beasta to compare if the profile is doing all the work, and it seems to be doing almost none. Other than some brightness changes, careful scrutiny of test images only shows a brightness change with midtones to darks. The reason I used that profile is because the G2400W out of the factory (outside of being TN) has very good fidelity to sRGB (I think average D E94 is like 1.3 based on Basiccolor 4.1.8)
Compared to my standard gamut display, strong greens are not so much more saturated on the NEC as to create a large difference, and with green it is most obvious, simply because it is what we are most sensitive to visually.
I'm going to re-calibrate my other display with BC 4.1.8 tonight to re-evaluate and compare the two, though the other display is running about 20 cdm/2 brighter. I'll also load back the sRGB gamma calibration target in SVII and go through a bunch of test images to see.
What I'm also trying to find, is (as mentioned by Tamblin_WSGF) is how I can enable ATI's gamut conversion. I read about it, but so far I can't find anything about it beyond what he pointed to. Apparently it only works in Beasta on 48x0 series cards, but so far, I've found very little on this.
My interest here is to find what can be done at the video card level to compensate for the "purer" reds, greens, and blues of the wide gamut screen.
Though I can say, that compared to other wide gamut screens I've seen, even after calibration, the NEC does a pretty good job of somehow simulating a decent approximation of sRGB, so ultimately I'm quite satisfied with this display in basically every regard.
10e:
Do you have any software that reads the gamut triangle of your calibrated monitor?
Anyway, non of this is changing my mind that windows isn't quite there yet in terms of color management and I would be better off with an sRGB monitor, because I really don't futzing with color issues.
Do you have any software that reads the gamut triangle of your calibrated monitor?
Anyway, non of this is changing my mind that windows isn't quite there yet in terms of color management and I would be better off with an sRGB monitor, because I really don't futzing with color issues.
Spectraview II does it. Mine is identical to this one posted by XTKnight:
http://xtknight.50webs.com/lcd26/page5.htm
Half way down the page. The sRGB space is delineated by the nice, easy-to-see Cyan triangle???
I re-calibrated last night to sRGB gamma again. It does make a difference vs. the native gamma mode. But I don't understand why? The saturation is quite a bit lower. Some test images with strong reds don't look so strong any more. I also calibrated the monitor next to it (the FP241VW), and they are closer than ever. With native gamma even the red separators between [H] posts are too strong, but with sRGB gamma they are borderline dead (IMO as they should be).
As far as I know, gamma has nothing to do with color saturation, just brightness. I did also find a file in Windows Beasta called wsRGB.cdmp with a description of scRGB virtual device model profile. I am going to find out what it does.
I think this weekend I will hook up my Macbook to this screen and see what color management is like on that.
http://xtknight.50webs.com/lcd26/page5.htm
Half way down the page. The sRGB space is delineated by the nice, easy-to-see Cyan triangle???
I re-calibrated last night to sRGB gamma again. It does make a difference vs. the native gamma mode. But I don't understand why? The saturation is quite a bit lower. Some test images with strong reds don't look so strong any more. I also calibrated the monitor next to it (the FP241VW), and they are closer than ever. With native gamma even the red separators between [H] posts are too strong, but with sRGB gamma they are borderline dead (IMO as they should be).
As far as I know, gamma has nothing to do with color saturation, just brightness. I did also find a file in Windows Beasta called wsRGB.cdmp with a description of scRGB virtual device model profile. I am going to find out what it does.
I think this weekend I will hook up my Macbook to this screen and see what color management is like on that.
Tamlin_WSGF
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2006
- Messages
- 3,123
There is a couple of tips if to calibrate this screen:
First, make sure that the selected brightness is turned on at least 30 minutes before you calibrate. In example: If you wish to have 120cdm2, turn it on loong before calibrating. You can actually test why if you test the brightness continuously. The internal brightness stabilization feature turns down slowly and gradually the brightness until it reaches that level. First then you start calibrating with your target for optimal results.
Make sure that the gamma selection is on programmable before you start.
Secondly, if you use a calibrator like the spyder3elite, make sure that the calibrator is on level with the monitor surface. Its too light and the cable too stiff, so if you don't tilt the screen to the max, the results suffer.
I've used this calibrator with Spectraview profiler (basically Basiccolor 4) and its doing a very good job. There is no need anymore to compensate for white point. You get very pure white with it and also have a good gradient seperation, provided that you made sure the light puck is actually resting fully on the screen and are not letting any light in from the sides.
Test pictures shows no banding and displays all the blocks in both white and black tests.
Here's a validation of a calibration I just did. Colorcomp was on 5 eating up some contrast and settings a bit off (have been on vacation and a friend was watching house and cat while gaming with my machine). Thats why blackpoint and contrast was a bit off here. But, calibration was good. On Spectraview profiler, you select the validation AFTER the calibration, so its not taken in conjunction with calibration.
First, make sure that the selected brightness is turned on at least 30 minutes before you calibrate. In example: If you wish to have 120cdm2, turn it on loong before calibrating. You can actually test why if you test the brightness continuously. The internal brightness stabilization feature turns down slowly and gradually the brightness until it reaches that level. First then you start calibrating with your target for optimal results.
Make sure that the gamma selection is on programmable before you start.
Secondly, if you use a calibrator like the spyder3elite, make sure that the calibrator is on level with the monitor surface. Its too light and the cable too stiff, so if you don't tilt the screen to the max, the results suffer.
I've used this calibrator with Spectraview profiler (basically Basiccolor 4) and its doing a very good job. There is no need anymore to compensate for white point. You get very pure white with it and also have a good gradient seperation, provided that you made sure the light puck is actually resting fully on the screen and are not letting any light in from the sides.
Test pictures shows no banding and displays all the blocks in both white and black tests.
Here's a validation of a calibration I just did. Colorcomp was on 5 eating up some contrast and settings a bit off (have been on vacation and a friend was watching house and cat while gaming with my machine). Thats why blackpoint and contrast was a bit off here. But, calibration was good. On Spectraview profiler, you select the validation AFTER the calibration, so its not taken in conjunction with calibration.
mikecoscia
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2005
- Messages
- 436
Really stuck between getting the 24" or 26" . What is the consensus does one have less problems than others?
Definitely NEC 2490. Should be better regadring quality and no problems with the wide-gamut. (Or are you a pro-graphician who can use the aRGB colour space?)
I just received my 2690, ordered from Amazon. Although I haven't calibrated the monitor (still waiting for the Spectraview kit to ship), from my comparisons of images in Photoshop and outside, the color saturation difference isn't too great, definitely not a bother if you're not doing color-critical work.
Also, for any that have just received the monitor and you're trying a backlight bleed test, you might've noticed that it bleeds light -horribly-. Wait a day or so and the problem nearly fixes itself. I'm not sure why it does this but it's definitely evened out quite well.
I will be writing up a review as soon as I can get my friend's camera and the Spectraview kit.
Oh, mine has no dead pixels and no humming or buzzing. From what I've read, the backlight problem fixes itself over a short period of time and the humming or buzzing is caused by using 220V instead of 120V.
Also, for any that have just received the monitor and you're trying a backlight bleed test, you might've noticed that it bleeds light -horribly-. Wait a day or so and the problem nearly fixes itself. I'm not sure why it does this but it's definitely evened out quite well.
I will be writing up a review as soon as I can get my friend's camera and the Spectraview kit.
Oh, mine has no dead pixels and no humming or buzzing. From what I've read, the backlight problem fixes itself over a short period of time and the humming or buzzing is caused by using 220V instead of 120V.
Without a profile your monitor it should look identical inside and outside photoshop. Photoshop reads profiles (does color managment) and almost nothing else does.
lifanus
Gawd
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2008
- Messages
- 870
My replacement 2690 spectraview ii version came today (which is just a basic bk version that had a colorimeter and spectraview ii software stuffed into the packaging box), This one is perfect - no dead pixels whatsoever (compare to the previous one which I returned that had 8 ugly problematic pixels) It's a miracle! I love it! Now I can pass down my 19" monitor to my girlfriend
Hope it's OK to bump a thread after a few weeks. I have a simple question.
Am I correct in assuming the only difference between the BK and SV versions is the inclusion of the Spectraview software and colorimeter? The display itself is exactly the same? Is the $200 hit worth it?
I apologize if this has already been answered in this thread. I really tried to read the whole thing, but 72 pages is a lot to sift through...
Am I correct in assuming the only difference between the BK and SV versions is the inclusion of the Spectraview software and colorimeter? The display itself is exactly the same? Is the $200 hit worth it?
I apologize if this has already been answered in this thread. I really tried to read the whole thing, but 72 pages is a lot to sift through...