New info on the Samsung 305T 30"-er

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pawstar

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 2, 2005
Messages
465
Well, there is some new info on the Samsung SyncMaster 305T 30" monitor from the good folks over at xyzcomputing:
30" size
400 cd/m2
1000:1 contrast
178deg viewing angle
single Dual-link DVI-D

MSRP=$1999.99

Personally, while the specs are good, I am disappointed that again, another 30"er with just DVI-D and no mention of HDCP which we know will be required for HD content

source: http://www.xyzcomputing.com/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=810
 
inc input lag, tons of it and also the viewing angle issue which is bad on the 24" PVA based LCD module (imagine the 30" which is wider).
 
Yep, this is the worse one yet. Nothing is really better and PVA tone shifting on a big screen like this is a non starter.
 
I don't understand. Will the panel in the samsung be better than the one in the dell? :confused:
 
StalkerZER0 said:
I don't understand. Will the panel in the samsung be better than the one in the dell? :confused:
Click to expand...

I recall them saying that the panel is supposed to be slightly better than the Dell panel, however other forum members think that it will be inferior to PVA. I think its on par with what Dell currently offers and will offer no substantial difference for the most part. There was even talk about Dell mixing in LG & Samsung panels down the road (this was a couple of months back) but I am unaware if they had actually started doing that or not.

P.S. BenQ where are you!
 
in term of quality LG Panels for DELL VS PVA Panels on Samsung yes the quality will be different however make no mistake IPS is far better than PVA when its comes to input lag, response time and viewing angle (the reason for the tome shift on the sides of the monitor).
 
kleox64 said:
in term of quality LG Panels for DELL VS PVA Panels on Samsung yes the quality will be different however make no mistake IPS is far better than PVA when its comes to input lag, response time and viewing angle (the reason for the tome shift on the sides of the monitor).
Click to expand...

Ok, so which monitor has IPS and which has the PVA?? :confused:
 
pawstar said:
I recall them saying that the panel is supposed to be slightly better than the Dell panel, however other forum members think that it will be inferior to PVA.
P.S. BenQ where are you!
Click to expand...

Who is "them". You mean Samsung? What do you expect them to say?

The new samsung panels is PVA, the current Dell and Apple panels are S-IPS. There is almost universal agreement that S-IPS is better. Better viewing angles and less input lag.

I believe the Benq is also using the samsung PVA panel. Dell switches to whatever is cheaper, so expect them to switch to PVA at some point.
http://product.pcpop.com/000025546/Index.html notice PVA is listed.

It may be that the only S-IPS panel next year in 30" will be the Apple. Viewing angle tone shift is going to be incredibly important on a 30" screen.

No sign yet which panel the HP is using, but they have wide color gamut CCFL tubes which should give them the best color:
http://www.engadget.com/2006/09/07/hp-lp3065-30-inch-monitor-details-revealed/
 
Snowdog said:
Who is "them". You mean Samsung? What do you expect them to say?

The new samsung panels is PVA, the current Dell and Apple panels are S-IPS. There is almost universal agreement that S-IPS is better. Better viewing angles and less input lag.

I believe the Benq is also using the samsung PVA panel. Dell switches to whatever is cheaper, so expect them to switch to PVA at some point.
http://product.pcpop.com/000025546/Index.html notice PVA is listed.

It may be that the only S-IPS panel next year in 30" will be the Apple. Viewing angle tone shift is going to be incredibly important on a 30" screen.

No sign yet which panel the HP is using, but they have wide color gamut CCFL tubes which should give them the best color:
http://www.engadget.com/2006/09/07/hp-lp3065-30-inch-monitor-details-revealed/
Click to expand...

This is all confusing because I thought the panels in Samsung products are better right? Wrong? :confused:
 
StalkerZER0 said:
This is all confusing because I thought the panels in Samsung products are better right? Wrong? :confused:
Click to expand...
Not always...Samsung have those crappy TN panels in their lcd lineup too.
 
Morphy said:
Not always...Samsung have those crappy TN panels in their lcd lineup too.
Click to expand...

So bottomline the picture quality of the samsung 30 should be inferior to that of the dell 3007?
 
Is it certain that all PVA panels have input lag? We shouldn't assume that if we don't know.
 
Just as an FYI a good page for Panel specs:

http://www.nona.dti.ne.jp/d-space/column/lcdp.html

LM300W01: Panel 30" ACD and 3007wfp currently use
LM300WQ1: upcoming HP LP3065
LTM300M1: What the Samsung and Benq are supposed to use

The LTM300M1(S-PVA) actually has the best viewing angle, by 2 degrees albeit.

No one has seen a LTM300M1 in action so I don't understand how anyone can label it. Should only be wondering if its ever going to hit shelves :)
 
StalkerZER0 said:
This is all confusing because I thought the panels in Samsung products are better right? Wrong? :confused:
Click to expand...

Better than what? There are 3 main panel types and some sub types.

The bottom line is the best is IPS. Samsung does not make IPS, so they are not the best. If you are getting 30", don't get a Samsung.

Could I be any more clear?
 
jamesavery22 said:
Just as an FYI a good page for Panel specs:

http://www.nona.dti.ne.jp/d-space/column/lcdp.html

LM300W01: Panel 30" ACD and 3007wfp currently use
LM300WQ1: upcoming HP LP3065
LTM300M1: What the Samsung and Benq are supposed to use

The LTM300M1(S-PVA) actually has the best viewing angle, by 2 degrees albeit.

No one has seen a LTM300M1 in action so I don't understand how anyone can label it. Should only be wondering if its ever going to hit shelves :)
Click to expand...

The numbers manufacturers quote for viewing angles are meanignless. I had a Dell 2007fp with Samsung S-PVA with 180 degree viewing angle on the specs. From the link you provided:
LTM201U1 1600?~1200 S-PVA 16.7M 300 700-1000:1 180 / 180 (GtG8) 3300
In reality it had terrible viewing angles. More like 18 degrees than 180. It is BS. PVA panels do not have the best viewing angles. S-IPS do. I can state this after owning 2 PVA panels and examining numerous others.

IPS > PVA. Always.
 
Snowdog said:
The numbers manufacturers quote for viewing angles are meanignless. I had a Dell 2007fp with Samsung S-PVA with 180 degree viewing angle on some of the specs. In reality it had terrible viewing angles. More like 18 degrees than 180. It is BS. PVA panels do not have the best viewing angles. S-IPS do. I can state this after owning 2 PVA panels and examining numerous others.

IPS > PVA. Always.
Click to expand...

kool, I was just ignorantly going by the #s. Thanks for the info. I've been hounding HP's sales reps for info on the LP3065, anyone else have any luck? :)
 
jamesavery22 said:
kool, I was just ignorantly going by the #s. Thanks for the info. I've been hounding HP's sales reps for info on the LP3065, anyone else have any luck? :)
Click to expand...

Good stuff if the HP has the second generation S-IPS 30" panel. S-IPS + better backlight FTW. Did you see how much heavier it is now? I am betting it is all about getting better backlighting, better backlighting control.
 
Snowdog said:
Better than what? There are 3 main panel types and some sub types.

The bottom line is the best is IPS. Samsung does not make IPS, so they are not the best. If you are getting 30", don't get a Samsung.

Could I be any more clear?
Click to expand...

ok. :(
 
Snowdog said:
Good stuff if the HP has the second generation S-IPS 30" panel. S-IPS + better backlight FTW. Did you see how much heavier it is now? I am betting it is all about getting better backlighting, better backlighting control.
Click to expand...

Saw the weight difference, thats just for the panel though, not an entire assembly so that wouldn't include the backlight, correct? Was pretty curious about the jump in weight..
 
jamesavery22 said:
Saw the weight difference, thats just for the panel though, not an entire assembly so that wouldn't include the backlight, correct? Was pretty curious about the jump in weight..
Click to expand...

The panel assembly includes the backlight.

Generally, all the "manufacturers" like Dell/HP do is supply a case and input electronics. Thats why basic characteristics depend on the panel and will be substantially similar between manufacturers who use the same panel. So brightness/contrast/viewing angles and color gamut depend on the panel assembly.

Though bad electronics can ruin a panel. Dell used some bad input this year on Dell 2407wfp/2007wfp/2007fp that gave them a lot of banding and blurring, that is mostly fixed now.
 
jamesavery22 said:
But doesnt the ACD 30" have a different back light than the 3007wfp?
Click to expand...

I doubt it. They essentially have the same specs and for a while Dells were different (probably a newer version of the panel) but then Apple updated theirs. Both have reports of similar backlight bleed issues etc..

There may be some exceptions, but the rule is the panel/backlight come as a preassembled set.
 
Snowdog said:
I doubt it. They essentially have the same specs and for a while Dells were different (probably a newer version of the panel) but then Apple updated theirs. Both have reports of similar backlight bleed issues etc..

There may be some exceptions, but the rule is the panel/backlight come as a preassembled set.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info again. Learn something new everyday, sometimes a few things :D

Going nuts waiting for HP to put that display up on their site...
 
Yeah jamesavery22, it looks to me that Dell's next gen 30" or the LP3065 will be the ones worth considering. The HP's 92% color gamut and 6-8ms gtg sound amazing. Anyone know what "gray-to-gray" truely means? Does it actually mean "light_gray-to-dark_gray", using standardized specific gray colors?

Here's some old LP3065 info that I just discovered: data sheet, preview article, Nov release date, old discussion.
 
zzz said:
Is it certain that all PVA panels have input lag? We shouldn't assume that if we don't know.
Click to expand...

its a side effect of the overdrive, newer PVA panels use more overdrive to achieve a lower response time however at the cost of delay/lag. This doesnt mean PVA is rubbish, it means IPS its more suited for movies/gaming etc... where viewing angles and input lag actually matter. The 30" samsung is targeted at the pro and I can see EIZO using it.
 
zzz said:
Yeah jamesavery22, it looks to me that Dell's next gen 30" or the LP3065 will be the ones worth considering. The HP's 92% color gamut and 6-8ms gtg sound amazing. Anyone know what "gray-to-gray" truely means? Does it actually mean "light_gray-to-dark_gray", using standardized specific gray colors?

Here's some old LP3065 info that I just discovered: data sheet, preview article, Nov release date, old discussion.
Click to expand...

Nice info thanks. Wow that is power hungry. 178 watts max. Vs 90w max for the Dell 30". Must be juicing the backlight and filtering like crazy to expand the color range.
 
zzz said:
Yeah jamesavery22, it looks to me that Dell's next gen 30" or the LP3065 will be the ones worth considering. The HP's 92% color gamut and 6-8ms gtg sound amazing. Anyone know what "gray-to-gray" truely means? Does it actually mean "light_gray-to-dark_gray", using standardized specific gray colors?

Here's some old LP3065 info that I just discovered: data sheet, preview article, Nov release date, old discussion.
Click to expand...

What next gen dell 30"...I mean...WHAT next gen 30" dell are you talking about? :confused: :confused:
So to summarize y'all the samsung 305T will suck compared to the competitors correct?

So the finalists are now down to the BenQ FP301W, the HPL3065 and the supposed next gen dell 3007?
Can someone confirm the new dell and all the rest?
 
StalkerZER0 said:
What next gen dell 30"...I mean...WHAT next gen 30" dell are you talking about? :confused: :confused:
So to summarize y'all the samsung 305T will suck compared to the competitors correct?

So the finalists are now down to the BenQ FP301W, the HPL3065 and the supposed next gen dell 3007?
Can someone confirm the new dell and all the rest?
Click to expand...

Benq and Sammy use the same panel, so they are going to be pretty darn similar.

Its been speculated that Dell will put out another revision of the 3007wfp using the new LG panel(used in the HP). Makes sense but I havent seen any official info. I didnt notice that max 176w consumption before. More weight, more power, some new type of backlight? Really anxious to see this sucker.
 
kleox64 said:
its a side effect of the overdrive, newer PVA panels use more overdrive to achieve a lower response time however at the cost of delay/lag. This doesnt mean PVA is rubbish, it means IPS its more suited for movies/gaming etc... where viewing angles and input lag actually matter. The 30" samsung is targeted at the pro and I can see EIZO using it.
Click to expand...

Input lag isn't tolerable for me, even in Windows. PVA = pure rubish for me.

I'm not so sure about 176W, since it says "Typical 118W".

I haven't heard anything about a new Dell 30", but they'll certainly replace the 3007 at some point, like they've done with every other LCD in they have. Plus they're seriously trying to eliminate their 3007 inventory. I bet they'll release a new model before Christmas.
 
zzz said:
Input lag isn't tolerable for me, even in Windows. PVA = pure rubish for me.

I'm not so sure about 176W, since it says "Typical 118W".

I haven't heard anything about a new Dell 30", but they'll certainly replace the 3007 at some point, like they've done with every other LCD in they have. Plus they're seriously trying to eliminate their 3007 inventory. I bet they'll release a new model before Christmas.
Click to expand...

Yeah the price drops on the 3007 were pretty nuts
 
jamesavery22 said:
Yeah the price drops on the 3007 were pretty nuts
Click to expand...

Well, they would need to announce a new one soon then. I mean, Its the middle of October already.
 
If there's going to be a new 30" from Dell it wont be using S-IPS panel but more likely one of the newer,cheaper 30" panels like Samsung's..and the price will be lower. But unlike the current S-IPS Dell it might have the added inputs. So Image Quality goes down but you gain inputs and pay less. Me I rather have the IQ myself...inputs are nice but its a secondary feature. However, there is a market for ppl who want these inputs so I can see Dell going that way.
 
Morphy said:
If there's going to be a new 30" from Dell it wont be using S-IPS panel but more likely one of the newer,cheaper 30" panels like Samsung's..and the price will be lower. But unlike the current S-IPS Dell it might have the added inputs. So Image Quality goes down but you gain inputs and pay less. Me I rather have the IQ myself...inputs are nice but its a secondary feature. However, there is a market for ppl who want these inputs so I can see Dell going that way.
Click to expand...

Yes and there is a huge market for people who look at cheap above everything else. Look at all the excitement over Dell new 20" TN panel. E207WFP for $289. Dell knows this. They will use the cheapest 30" panel for the next upgrade.
 
Morphy said:
If there's going to be a new 30" from Dell it wont be using S-IPS panel but more likely one of the newer,cheaper 30" panels like Samsung's..and the price will be lower. But unlike the current S-IPS Dell it might have the added inputs. So Image Quality goes down but you gain inputs and pay less. Me I rather have the IQ myself...inputs are nice but its a secondary feature. However, there is a market for ppl who want these inputs so I can see Dell going that way.
Click to expand...

Ok I'm kinda slow so please remind me of something.....
The BenQ 30 inch with the multiple inputs coming soon umm....what panel will that one have again?
Also, wouldn't the new dell 30 inch have a better S-IPS panel? Who says they would go with a PVA?
 
StalkerZER0 said:
Ok I'm kinda slow so please remind me of something.....
The BenQ 30 inch with the multiple inputs coming soon umm....what panel will that one have again?
Also, wouldn't the new dell 30 inch have a better S-IPS panel? Who says they would go with a PVA?
Click to expand...

History.

Dell released the 2001fp with S-IPS, by the end switched to PVA.
Dell released the 2007fp with S-IPS, then soon switched to PVA.
Dell released the 2007wfp with S-IPS. Signs are they are just now switching to PVA.

Now that there is 30" PVA, I would say there are pretty good odds the next 30" from Dell will be PVA.

Latest reports are the Benq will use PVA, many dells are actually made by Benq...

There are no guarantees on what panel you will get from dell, but given the above, I would expect any new version to be PVA and I wouldn't be the least bit surprised it even the current version started shipping with PVA screens sometime soon. Panel lottery is the Dell way.
 
Snowdog said:
History.

Dell released the 2001fp with S-IPS, by the end switched to PVA.
Dell released the 2007fp with S-IPS, then soon switched to PVA.
Dell released the 2007wfp with S-IPS. Signs are they are just now switching to PVA.

Now that there is 30" PVA, I would say there are pretty good odds the next 30" from Dell will be PVA.

Latest reports are the Benq will use PVA, many dells are actually made by Benq...

There are no guarantees on what panel you will get from dell, but given the above, I would expect any new version to be PVA and I wouldn't be the least bit surprised it even the current version started shipping with PVA screens sometime soon. Panel lottery is the Dell way.
Click to expand...

*bangs head really REALLY hard.....repeatedly* ARghhhhhhhh!!!! :(

*takes breath* ..........*sigh*. Ok......now....so....my choices ARE (if I want decent picture quality) to either get a dell 3007wfp...N O W before they "update" to an inferior PVA panel or get the HP L3065 because as of now they both have S-IPS panels correct?
 
Stalker its Friday calm down :) You'll always be able to find previous version of the 3007wfp on ebay.
 
jamesavery22 said:
Stalker its Friday calm down :) You'll always be able to find previous version of the 3007wfp on ebay.
Click to expand...

Ya that was me calming down by taking a few breathes. But please confirm the info I asked in the above question?
 
Stalker....yes, I agree with what you said. It really sucks, doesn't it. Apparently every new 30" panel coming out, except the HP, uses a PVA. Either buy a 3007 now, or wait til next month and take a gamble on the LP3065.

Option 1: buy a 3007 now
  • $1444+tax
  • It might buzz
  • 11ms gtg barely cuts it for movies

Option 2: buy a LP3065 next month
  • $2000 initially
  • Unreviewed, untested
  • 6ms gtg, 92% colors, better contrast ratio

Then again, maybe the world isn't going insane and all these new PVAs won't have input lag. Maybe. I'm gonna wait and put faith in the HP. I've never bought anything from HP before, but this screen really sounds nice.
 
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