No AMD K8L processors until 2008

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DariusVE

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Advanced Micro Devices (AMD) has recently indicated that its new K8L processor for its next-generation Socket AM3 platform will not be available until 2008, according to sources at Taiwan-based motherboard makers.

AMD's K8L series is expected to be compatible with Socket AM2-based motherboards by adding both DDR2 and DDR3 memory controllers, according to the sources.

According to AMD's latest roadmap, AMD will start manufacturing its Socket AM2 dual-core processors using a 65nm process in the first quarter of 2007, beginning with the Athlon 64 X2 lineup, including the 3800+, 4200+ and 4600+, the sources said.

In addition to the Athlon 64 X2, the production of AMD dual-core Athlon 64FX and single-core Sempron CPUs will also migrate to the 65nm node in 2007, the sources stated, noting that the 65nm Sempron will be upgraded to support DDR2 800 instead of DDR2 667. Prior to the launch of the Socket-AM2 CPUs, AMD intends to begin terminating orders for its non-Socket-AM2 processors—Socket-939 dual-core Athlon FX/X2 (codenamed Toledo), Socket-939 single-core Athlon 64 in the 1MB L2 version (codenamed San Diego), Socket-939 single-core Athlon 64 in the 512KB L2 version and the entry-level Socket-754 Sempron (codenamed Palermo)—by the end of 2006.

AMD's entry-level processors will all feature dual-core architecture by the third quarter of 2007, when its last single-core CPU—the Athlon 64—will start to be phased out in the market.

While AMD is expected to not make any changes to the micro-architecture of its CPUs in the next 18 months or even longer, Intel is ready to bring up a strong campaign based on its new Core Micro architecture, noted the sources. In order to compete with Intel, AMD cannot do anything but cut prices for its current lineup of CPUs, a move that will eventually undermine its profitability, the sources indicated.

More here: http://www.digitimes.com/mobos/a20060710A1001.html
 
Yeah it's a server chip first, as most people expected.
 
I think there is a confusion here. They are talking about future AM3 socket for K8L, not the whole K8L part.
Like AMD has said, K8L will be first for AM2 socket (and socket F) with DDR2 (remember: AMD has talking about DDR2 with migration to DDR3, and AM3 isn't DDR2 compatible). So in fact, IMO, this digitimes information doesn't contradict 2007 launch.
Here are some good points about this info misinterpretation:
http://www.aceshardware.com/forums/read_post.jsp?id=120061298&forumid=1
 
DariusVE said:
AMD's entry-level processors will all feature dual-core architecture by the third quarter of 2007, when its last single-core CPU—the Athlon 64—will start to be phased out in the market.
Click to expand...
According to this at 2007 Q3 AMD would produce only multicore processors

DariusVE said:
While AMD is expected to not make any changes to the micro-architecture of its CPUs in the next 18 months or even longer, Intel is ready to bring up a strong campaign based on its new Core Micro architecture, noted the sources. In order to compete with Intel, AMD cannot do anything but cut prices for its current lineup of CPUs, a move that will eventually undermine its profitability, the sources indicated.
Click to expand...
This it's clear, the only hat trick that AMD has it's cut prices, and the next evolution to it's processors it's the 65mn migration, and would be produced on 2007 Q1.

Remember, K8L it's the next generation of it's processors and it's based on AM3.
 
The only lines with the info from motherboards sources are the first two: "Advanced Micro Devices (AMD) has recently indicated that its new K8L processor for its next-generation Socket AM3 platform will not be available until 2008, according to sources at Taiwan-based motherboard makers. "

The rest of the article is a (mis)interpretation from digitimes writer. He assumes K8L = AM3. An not, it isn't. K8L =! AM3. It is AM2 first.
 
Arvidas said:
The rest of the article is a (mis)interpretation from digitimes writer. He assumes K8L = AM3. An not, it isn't. K8L =! AM3. It is AM2 first.
Click to expand...

Consumer desktop K8L is AM3. The AM3 package however, is compatible with AM2.

Consumer K8L = AM3. There's no K8L on AM2.
 
There is K8L for AM2. Why not? AMD has'n stated the contrary. They have stated that K8L will be first with DDR2, to transition (it seems, sometime during 2008) to DDR3 (AM3).
Remember, K8L will include memory controller to support both DDR type.
 
http://www.digitimes.com/mobos/a20060710A1001.html

Everyone is reading that article wrong. Here is the quote we need to consider:

Advanced Micro Devices (AMD) has recently indicated that its new K8L processor for its next-generation Socket AM3 platform will not be available until 2008, according to sources at Taiwan-based motherboard makers.

AMD's K8L series is expected to be compatible with Socket AM2-based motherboards by adding both DDR2 and DDR3 memory controllers, according to the sources.
Click to expand...

This quote says that socket AM3 K8L chips will not be due until 2008. This makes perfect sense as socket AM3 will not come out before then.

This quote says nothing about when K8L will first be released. Actually, it implies that K8L will come out before 2008 because it does mention the fact that K8L will be AM2 compatible.

Who would you rather trust: AMD -> MB makers -> Digitimes -> public, or a direct comment from AMD that K8L will be released in the summer of 2007? The telephone game always messes up the details.

Link:
http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1029616459&postcount=6
 
Arvidas said:
There is K8L for AM2. Why not? AMD has'n stated the contrary.
Click to expand...

Because it doesn't make sense.

Think about it. If K8L actually comes in both AM2 and AM3 packaging, then why the heck would they spend time to make the AM3 package compatible with Socket AM2? Why would AMD waste die space on K8L to make it compatible with DDR2 and DDR3?

There's not a article out there that says K8L will be on the AM2 package. It's AM3 only. The AM3 package, however, also fits in Socket AM2.
 
JackPack said:
Because it doesn't make sense.

Think about it. If K8L actually comes in both AM2 and AM3 packaging, then why the heck would they spend time to make the AM3 package compatible with Socket AM2? Why would AMD waste die space on K8L to make it compatible with DDR2 and DDR3?
Click to expand...

K8L will include both memory controller! This is a fact.

There's not a article out there that says K8L will be on the AM2 package. It's AM3 only. The AM3 package, however, also fits in Socket AM2.
Click to expand...

Look at AMD analyst day. They clearly said K8L will be for DDR2 first. And the only socket with DDR2 support is AM2.
 
JackPack said:
Think about it. If K8L actually comes in both AM2 and AM3 packaging, then why the heck would they spend time to make the AM3 package compatible with Socket AM2? Why would AMD waste die space on K8L to make it compatible with DDR2 and DDR3?

There's not a article out there that says K8L will be on the AM2 package. It's AM3 only. The AM3 package, however, also fits in Socket AM2.
Click to expand...

Again, this is what happens when you trust the telephone game across at least three different companies and at least two different languages. The details always get all messed up.

K8L will come out in a package that is physically compatible with AM2 and AM3. Just like all AM3 parts will be. The K8L will have both DDR2 and DDR3 controllers at first, and only the DDR2 will be enabled and will function. This makes the first K8L parts function in AM2 without any issues, and at the same time, it gives AMD fabrication practice for the DDR3 and other AM3 additions. All this will happen in the summer of 2007.

Later, K8L will be released again, with almost the exact same package, except the DDR3 controller will be enabled. This will happen around the time of the socket AM3 launch in 2008. This way, AMD is able to sell almost the exact same CPUs it has been making for a long time and has lots of practice with.

CPU makers do this all the time. The original prescot dies from Intel had some 64-bit sections that were discovered by Hans de Vries at chip-architect.com. Intel wanted some fab practice first. Later, Intel changed these parts around a bit, and enabled them. It took a lot less work for them because of their forward thinking. AMD is just doing the exact same thing, but this time they are doing it for the mem controller and not 64-bit extentions.
 
Arvidas said:
K8L will include both memory controller! This is a fact.
Click to expand...
I'm not disputing that.

The fact that K8L has both the DDR2 and DDR3 memory controller strongly suggests it will only be on the AM3 package.

Why else would AMD highlight the fact that Socket AM2 is compatible with the AM3 package?


Arvidas said:
Look at AMD analyst day. They clearly said K8L will be for DDR2 first. And the only socket with DDR2 support is AM2.
Click to expand...
So? K8L supports DDR2+DDR3 using AM3 package. It will work on Socket AM2 motherboards.
 
visaris said:
K8L will come out in a package that is physically compatible with AM2 and AM3. Just like all AM3 parts will be. The K8L will have both DDR2 and DDR3 controllers at first, and only the DDR2 will be enabled and will function. This makes the first K8L parts function in AM2 without any issues, and at the same time, it gives AMD fabrication practice for the DDR3 and other AM3 additions. All this will happen in the summer of 2007.

Later, K8L will be released again, with almost the exact same package, except the DDR3 controller will be enabled. This will happen around the time of the socket AM3 launch in 2008. This way, AMD is able to sell almost the exact same CPUs it has been making for a long time and has lots of practice with.
Click to expand...

This is all too complicated and is IMHO extremely unlikely, especially considering that AMD is consolidating their SKUs.

AMD spent time making the AM3 package backward compatible with Socket AM2 for a good reason. Your theory makes that backward compatiblity utterly useless.

Under your theory, K8L + "DDR2 enabled" obviously isn't compatible with AM3 mothrboards. Similarly, K8L + "DDR3 enabled" isn't compatible with AM2 motherboards. If AMD plans to release these two "variants" of K8L, why bother to make the AM3 package backward compatible? Socket AM3 might as well be a completely different socket using LGA.
 
JackPack said:
I'm not disputing that.

The fact that K8L has both the DDR2 and DDR3 memory controller strongly suggests it will only be on the AM3 package.
Click to expand...

Thats your own speculation, and I disagree greatly ;)

You said there's not a article out there that says K8L will be on the AM2 package.
Well, I say there's not an article out there that says K8L will be on the AM3 package only. In fact, AMD statements implict the contrary (again, they have stated K8L will be first for DDR2. And this clearly implict it will be AM2. I don't know what is the part so difficult to understand for you. ;) ).
 
JackPack said:
This is all too complicated and is IMHO extremely unlikely, especially considering that AMD is consolidating their SKUs.
Click to expand...
It may be a little complicated, but I think it is the only course of action that makes sense considering all of the K8L press that is out. I guess we'll just have to disagree here.

JackPack said:
Under your theory, [. . .] Similarly, K8L + "DDR3 enabled" isn't compatible with AM2 motherboards.
Click to expand...
That is not my theory at all. I predict an AM2 K8L (based 100% on AM3 internal designs by simply disabling the DDR3 controller), and an AM3 K8L what will work with either AM2 or AM3. Two ever so slightly different versions based on the exact same core and the exact same physical package. This is the only course of action that makes much sense for AMD, IMHO.
 
am I the only one wondering if having dual memory controllers might hurt the K8L's performance, or at the very least, just consume precious die space??

die space = gold for AMD.... they should just put a DDR3 one on there and call it a day...
 
Arvidas said:
In fact, AMD statements implict the contrary (again, they have stated K8L will be first for DDR2. And this clearly implict it will be AM2. I don't know what is the part so difficult to understand for you. ;) ).
Click to expand...
How is it implicit when the AM3 package is known to be compatible with Socket AM2? Do you understand the difference between package and socket?
 
That's pretty soon. I guess it'll compete with the conroe after all. I imagine a lot of people will wait till Vista to build new PCs anyway.
 
People gave shit to intel for their socket 423 to socket 478 crap and now AMD is changing sockets every year now ?

and we now know why Intel hasnt gone with an integrated memory controller......
 
For your records, MrGuvernment, a AM3 processor will be able to be installed in a AM2 mobo. It's backward compatible ;)
 
MrGuvernment said:
People gave shit to intel for their socket 423 to socket 478 crap and now AMD is changing sockets every year now ?

and we now know why Intel hasnt gone with an integrated memory controller......
Click to expand...
Believe it or not ther are other avenues to getting performance out of a processor then putting the memory controller on die, Intel just has chosen not to do it this way.

You have to clearly keep in mind, that they have a profitable chipset business to worry about unlike AMD.
 
MrGuvernment said:
and we now know why Intel hasnt gone with an integrated memory controller......
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Right, becuase that LGA775 platform has been amazingly stable. I mean jumping from prescott to Pentium D to Conroe would only have required 3 different motherboards. :)

Don't look as the socket, look at motherboard compatability. AMD has done a bit better than intel in recent years, but both companies have had motherboards changing as fast as CPUs, which in the end is probably a good thing for everybody except those of us who plunk $250 down on a top end board.
 
Arvidas said:
For your records, MrGuvernment, a AM3 processor will be able to be installed in a AM2 mobo. It's backward compatible ;)
Click to expand...

DOH! - smart AMD in that case :D
 
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