Old(ish) case for a modern build?

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Syphon Filter

2[H]4U
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Dec 19, 2003
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Update:

Ok, so my reality has just been shattered to some degree. In the original post (below) I mentioned that I had been "out of the game/loop". Let me explain further. My old Abit IC7-Max3 build shit the bed around 2004 or so and I basically stopped playing PC games when that happened, no big deal at the time (or even now) as I had my XBox 360 for all the gaming love I felt I needed and a laptop fulfilled all the mundane tasks of email etc...

Couple this with the ease of buying games online and having them delivered to your door I never really stepped into a gaming store other than for a quick browse and even then only in the XBox section. This is how it went from then up until present day (read that as today).

Now with me having thoughts about building the machine outlined in this thread (mainly so I could play a couple of choice titles), today while in town I wandered into a few gaming/multimedia shops and decided to have a look at the PC sections as obviously I would need some game to play on the behemoth that I WAS planning to build. Imagine my utter horror as some weird kind new "reality" dawned on me. Every single games shop went into had the most laughably small PC games section I had ever seen. How had I not noticed this over the past few years? I mean, sections that were tradtionally the sort of size you'd expect to see as the "bargain bin" were now housing the shops ENTIRE PC GAMING SECTION!!! :confused::confused::confused::eek::eek::eek::eek:

WTF happened? This was the case in every single shop I went to bar one. The final shop was an HMV (music/dvds/games store). I couldn't find the games section so had to ask a member of staff:

"Sorry Sir, we don't sell PC games anymore"

You could have knocked me over with a feather.

Seriously, I used to be one of the most avid PC gamer around...I loved all the old classic FPS games...and I KNEW I was missing out on some great titles when my old machine died (particularly Crysis)...but WTF has happened? PC gaming appears to have been relegated so far down in retail stores that it's making me second guess my desire to build another machine.

Are my fears bullshit? Is it simply because PC games have moved from a physical media model to an online delivery mode? Quite simply...WTF is going on :confused:

Original Post:

Hi Guys,

I've been out of the game for quite some time (a good few years). I have a hankering to build a new machine and am thinking about an LGA1366 Core i7.

Now i have a case already which a Lian Li PC-71 but I have been out of the loop so long that I don't know if this case will be suitable for a modern build. Specifically a modern PSU , motherboard, GPU and CPU cooler...

My preferred build will consist of the following components (though this may vary depending on the available funds):

Intel Core i7 930 2.80GHz (Bloomfield) (Socket LGA1366)
Asus P6X58D Premium Intel X58 (Socket 1366) DDR3 Motherboard
Corsair Dominator 6GB (3x2GB) DDR3 12800C7 (1600MHz)
Corsair HX 1000W ATX Modular SLI Compliant Power Supply
Asus ATI Radeon HD 5970 2048MB

Will any of the above fit in my case or should I be looking for a new case too?

Which CPU cooler should I be looking at and which one would fit in my case? I had my eye on the Noctua NH-D14.

Any help and tips would be much appreciated as I have been out of the loop for so long I have no idea what's hot and what's not!!

Cheers!!
Click to expand...
 
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You should be looking at a new case. It'll fit those parts but it won't cool those parts well since that case still uses 80mm fans. Short of modifying the case to accept 120mm fans, that case is not usable for most modern systems short of a office type PC with onboard video.

Speaking of your parts list, it's not very good for the money. For the same price as that HD 5970 2GB, you can easily get GTX 460 1GB SLI or GTX 470 1.2GB SLI for the same price but significantly better performance.

Also, more than likely, you can get cheaper and higher timing 12GB of DDR3 1600 RAM for the same price as the Corsair Dominator RAM. So in other words, those Corsair Dominator RAM are not worth it at all.
 
Thanks for the information.

Have case designs changed that much? I thought they were still classed as "ATX"?

Also, the case I have does indeed use 80mm fans but it has 2 front and 2 rear (with scope to add another two at the back if you wanted to. Does this changes things or am I still looking at a new case?

I appreciate the advice given. Also, thanks for the tips regarding the GPU and RAM. I read some reviews and my understanding was that the 5970 was the best single board money could buy at the moment? Regarding the RAM, which would you suggest?
 
Ah,

I see what you mean Danny, the new cases have like 2x 120mm fans front and rear...

Are there any other options? It seems a shame to lay my PC-71 to rest!

EDIT:

Having said that, there some with only 1x 120mm front and rear, specifically the smaller cases such as the Lian Li PC-8NWX etc...
 
ATX case designs have changed a bit since 2002 when that Lian Li case was introduced. Most new cases these days have 120mm fans which allows for better and quieter cooling than 80mm fans. Still looking at a new case. Those 80mm fans are just inadequate no matter how many you have. Yes a single 120mm fan will outperform two 80mm fans while being quieter to boot.

Like I said, if you can mod your case to fit a 120mm fan both back and front, you can reuse it.

The 5970 is the fastest single board money can buy. But still a bad buy for the price though. If you compare the performance of GTTX 460 1GB VS HD 5970 2GB, the GTX 460 1GB SLI consistently performs just as well as the HD 5970 card but for $240 cheaper. So considering that the GTX 470 1.2GB SLI is faster than GTX 460 1GB SLI, it's gonna be faster than the HD 5970 but for $80 cheaper.

RAM wise, what country do you live in? The RAM I typically suggest isn't always available outside of North America.

EDIT: Oh there are 80mm to 120mm fan adapters. Not 100% sure they'll cool that well but still better than 80mm fans. A pretty cheap stop-gap measure. Just monitor your temps and see if they're still good:
http://www.svc.com/cfa-300.html
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=2230
http://www.jab-tech.com/80mm-to-120mm-Fan-Adapter-pr-1508.html
 
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Hrm...

I'm in the UK if that helps re the RAM.

It looks like I have some catching up to do regarding GPUs...I will try and read up a few reviews etc to see if I can get myself up to speed.

With respect to the cooling, I think I can pretty easily mod a 120mm fan onto the front of my case as there are a total of 6 exposed 5.25" bays only one of which would be used.

Getting a 120 or even a 140mm fan mounted in the unused bays should be a doddle. I can knock up a bracket and mount into the (unused) exposed bays and mount the fan accordingly. I may also be able to mount 2 120mm fans on the rear with a bit of modification (namely cutting out some grills and mounting the fan).

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this. I guess ultimately it comes down to how much of a project I want, of course it would just be easier and quicker to buy a new case :p!!
 
Ahh ok. Just go with the cheapest Corsair 6GB DDR3 1600 RAM set you can find. I'm more than willing to bet that you won't notice an iota of difference between that cheap Corsair RAM and the Corsair Dominators.

Well IMO, I think you should figure out a way to make sure that the 120mm fan will blow directly on the GPU as that'll be your hottest part, regardless if you go with the HD 5970 or GTX 460 1GB SLI.. Not entirely sure you'll be able to do that with the bay mounted fans. As for the mounting the 120mm fans on the rear, sounds good to me.
 
I see what you mean about case design having moved on. I'm liking the new "compartmentalised" (is that even a word) designs that seperate out the PSU from the HDDs and all that lot from the mobo/cpu/gpu.

I like the innovation of "cable holes" so that all your cables are routed behind all the components. Looks like I might get a new case!!

Now for the GPU, I need to get up to speed on all that. I've seen a few reviews and the 5970 always seems to come out on top?? What am I missing here?
 
The Radeon HD 5970 is a dual-GPU card; it combines two HD 5870 GPUs onto one card. The Nvidia GTX 480 is currently the fastest single-GPU card, but it's louder and runs hotter than the rest. After that, comes the HD 5870 (comes in 1GB and 2GB models), then the GTX 470, then the HD 5850, then the GTX 460, and finally the HD 5830. (Keep in mind that these are the high-end cards, though the GTX 460 and HD 5830 are priced as mid-range cards.)
 
correction to tiraides 5970 performances is about that of 5850 in crossfire.
 
So the 5970 is in effect 2x 5850 in crossfire on a single card...

I'm reading some reviews as we speak, hopefully they will shed some light. As a general thing though, who makes the best/fastest card at the moment? ATI or nvidia?
 
Nvidia has the faster cards, whereas ATI has the better price/performance ratio. However, the GTX 460 is the exception to the rule, as it offers good (mid-range) performance for around $200. Two GTX 460s in SLI mode outperforms the GTX 480 (on its own) while costing less. However, you'll need a beefy power supply (of over 750 watts with at least 70A combined on its 12V rails) and plenty of cooling.

... Which takes us back to the matter of your case. What's your current plan regarding your case?
 
It's looking like a new case would be easiest bet. Looking at the Corsair 700D as it looks pretty tidy in terms of features/size and that Corsair 1000W PSU should be a great match for it in terms of cable lengths etc...

EDIT:

Just wanted to say, thanks for all the advice so far, it's much appreciated.
 
Right, I've hit a bit of a wall and need some more advice guys.

I've pretty much nailed down my build to the following components:

CPU:
Core i7 2.80 LGA1366 & Noctua NH-D14 HSF

MOBO:
Asus P6X58D-E

This board seems to offer excellent performance. The "Premium" is a lot more expensive but only seems to add a couple of minor features (Express Gate, 2nd LAN port and something else minor that I can't recall right now, maybe an onboard reset button or something).

RAM:
Patriot Viper 6GB (3x2GB) DDR3 12800C8

Seems to have good reviews and is priced a bit better that the Corsair dominator.

PSU:
Corsair HX 1000W

Plenty powerful, good reviews. I like that it has plenty of connectors and they are of good length.

Case:
Corsair Obsidian 700D

Nice simple design, seperate compartments to aid cooling and plenty of scope for adding additional fans etc. Should also be large enough to gobble up the largest of GPUs.

Stumbling Block

I cannot for the life of me decide on a GPU. I've read a number of reviews for the 5970, 5870, 5870 in XF, 480, 470 and 465 but I can't figure out which configuration would offer the best performance. Obviously, the 5970 or the GTX-480 would offer the best performance in a single card configuration but it would of course be ludicrous to dimiss a "lesser" card but maybe in a CF or SLI configuration that could offer better performance than the single card solutions at a similar price point.

I would really appreciate some pointers on this one. Thanks again guys and I apologise if my questions are inane/stupid but I've been out of the game for a long time and things have moved on a fair bit!!

EDIT:

Looking again, I think I am leaning towards 2x 5870 in Crossfire...

EDIT II:

It seems that the current batch of cards have been around for quite some time. Are the next batch of cards just around the corner and I would it be worth holding out for a month or two?
 
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(Advanced warning: The following US-based Web links are for visual references.)

Get the "2.8," or the Core i7 930. It's a good processor at stock speeds and/or overclocked. For the CPU cooler, however, I recommend either the Cogage TRUE Spirit or the Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus. Performance-wise, the Noctua NH-D14 HSF is among the best coolers available, but they each offer excellent performance for a bit less.

Go with a Corsair XMS3 kit, if it's available. It's considerably cheaper than the Dominators (and possibly the Patriot Vipers) yet would perform just as well.

Which video card you should buy depends on the money that you have and which level of visual quality you want to use in gaming. The HD 5870 and GTX 480 are great on their own, but if you want ultra high (or maxed out) visuals, you may want to consider a dual GTX 470 SLI combo or the cheaper between the dual-GPU HD 5970 or dual HD 5850 CrossFire combo. I prefer the convenience of a single card setup myself, but I'm willing to compromise a bit on overall visual quality. (Personally, I have a 1920x1080 monitor and just recently picked up an HD 5850.)
 
tiraides said:
(Advanced warning: The following US-based Web links are for visual references.)

Get the "2.8," or the Core i7 930. It's a good processor at stock speeds and/or overclocked. For the CPU cooler, however, I recommend either the Cogage TRUE Spirit or the Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus. Performance-wise, the Noctua NH-D14 HSF is among the best coolers available, but they each offer excellent performance for a bit less.

Go with a Corsair XMS3 kit, if it's available. It's considerably cheaper than the Dominators (and possibly the Patriot Vipers) yet would perform just as well.

Which video card you should buy depends on the money that you have and which level of visual quality you want to use in gaming. The HD 5870 and GTX 480 are great on their own, but if you want ultra high (or maxed out) visuals, you may want to consider a dual GTX 470 SLI combo or the cheaper between the dual-GPU HD 5970 or dual HD 5850 CrossFire combo. I prefer the convenience of a single card setup myself, but I'm willing to compromise a bit on overall visual quality. (Personally, I have a 1920x1080 monitor and just recently picked up an HD 5850.)
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Yeah, I'm an idiot, the 2.93 CPU is an LGA1156 which I missed so I will indeed be going for the i7 930.

Still looking in the GPU situation. Still unsure to be honest. I'll want to be playing Crysis with ALL the candy that is for sure...hence I want the most performance I can get!
 
Crysis? On max everything? You may need tri-SLI GTX 480... are you sure you want to go there?
 
lol...oh dear. Looks like I will have to rethink that one then :( Just shows how long I have been out of the loop.

I am deffo leaning towards a crossfire 5870 setup, maybe with the Sapphire card.
 
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cost wise in the high end I think best bang for buck will be a pair of 460's in SLI.. But you can definitly get faster, but I dont think the performance improvement to a pair of 5870's in crossfire would be worth the extra 400 bucks that would cost. Gains would be marginal at best.
 
Wait, when the hell did 80mm fans go out of style?
I can't stand any of my 120mm fans, they're slow, low flow and take up too much space.
 
t0x1k said:
Wait, when the hell did 80mm fans go out of style?
I can't stand any of my 120mm fans, they're slow, low flow and take up too much space.
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this is simple fact... 120mm has three times the surface area of 80mm fan does. 80mm fans have more air pressure but 120mm have greater airflow (which is more important).
 
t0x1k said:
Wait, when the hell did 80mm fans go out of style?
Click to expand...

You'd actually have to go back to the days of the 90nm Prescott Pentium 4 processors in 2004. Those CPUs ran extremely hot by then-current standards (between 50°C and 60°C at idle, between 80°C and 90°C even with a medium load - all at stock, non-overclocked speeds), and the 80mm fans would have to spin at a speed that's so high (at least 15,000 rpm) that they would have been unpleasantly loud (a minimum noise level of 60 dBA per fan) just to even provide barely adequate cooling for those CPUs.
 
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E4g1e said:
You'd actually have to go back to the days of the 90nm Prescott Pentium 4 processors in 2004. Those CPUs ran extremely hot by then-current standards (between 50°C and 60°C at idle, between 80°C and 90°C even with a medium load - all at stock, non-overclocked speeds), and the 80mm fans would have to spin at a speed that's so high (at least 15,000 rpm) that they would have been unpleasantly loud (a minimum noise level of 60 dBA per fan) just to even provide barely adequate cooling for those CPUs.
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Makes sense, my last desktop was based on an Abit IC7-MAX3 with a socket 478 CPU. When that went pop (around that time) I never bothered to repair/replace it. So I've been out of the loop for a good 5-6 years :eek:
 
bump

please read the updated original post and say something to restore my desire to build a gaming rig.
 
You're overreacting. PC gaming is nowhere near dead; your region simply sucks at offering good PC games.

Perhaps you've heard of this wonderful thing called the Internet... there should be a few online retailers where you could buy games from.
 
I live in London, hardly the outer reaches of Mongolia is it?

I really want to be able to justify to myself splashing out on a new rig...

What are the big triple A titles that I've missed over the past few years? I'm guessing the list includes the following:

1. Crysis + Warhead
2. Stalker + CoP
3. BFBC2

I'm struggling to square it with myself at the moment, though the upcoming release of Crysis 2 could help sway me. Also, I've heard talk of the new GPUs landing in a month or two (run up to Christmas) so wondering if I should hold off until then?
 
What else is there that I have missed out on though? Are those pretty much it in terms of AAA fps titles?
 
The beauty of a good system is that you'll be able to catch up on your favorites while you wait for the new ones to arrive. It seems to me that you're getting cold feet and want us to help you justify your (pending) purchase. We can't; ultimately, you'll have to decide whether or not it's worth the effort.

Your Core i7/X58 setup is pretty much top of the line, so it will be good for a few years, at the very least. You could get, say, one HD 5850 now and when new games arrive, you could decide to either buy a second 5850 for CrossFire goodness or get a brand new (and/or better) video card/setup and sell your old 5850.

You have plenty of options, but you have to decide which ones are worth pursuing.
 
tiraides said:
The beauty of a good system is that you'll be able to catch up on your favorites while you wait for the new ones to arrive. It seems to me that you're getting cold feet and want us to help you justify your (pending) purchase. We can't; ultimately, you'll have to decide whether or not it's worth the effort.

Your Core i7/X58 setup is pretty much top of the line, so it will be good for a few years, at the very least. You could get, say, one HD 5850 now and when new games arrive, you could decide to either buy a second 5850 for CrossFire goodness or get a brand new (and/or better) video card/setup and sell your old 5850.

You have plenty of options, but you have to decide which ones are worth pursuing.
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Quite true. I simply have an itch for something (gadgety) and a new gaming rig does fit the bill. I think I may put it off for a bit and see what the GPU developments are like later in the year. The current batch have been out on the market for quite some time so I think I'd rather wait for the new hotness an snap it up immediately on release rather than buying some stuff that's almost EoL.
 
Syphon Filter said:
Seriously, I used to be one of the most avid PC gamer around...I loved all the old classic FPS games...and I KNEW I was missing out on some great titles when my old machine died (particularly Crysis)...but WTF has happened? PC gaming appears to have been relegated so far down in retail stores that it's making me second guess my desire to build another machine.

Are my fears bullshit? Is it simply because PC games have moved from a physical media model to an online delivery mode? Quite simply...WTF is going on :confused:
Click to expand...

Yeah, your fears are pure and utter bullshit. Steam, D2D, and online stores are where you can get a lot of PC games from these days. PC gaming is not dead in any way shape or form.

I recommend listening to this podcast:
http://kotaku.com/5604241/pc-gaming-is-having-a-great-year

Syphon Filter said:
What else is there that I have missed out on though? Are those pretty much it in terms of AAA fps titles?
Click to expand...
Well for great PC games in general:

- SC2
- FC2
- Bioshock 2
- Borderlands
- Metro 2033
- Mass Effect
- Mass Effect 2
- Batman: AA
- MW2
- Splinter Cell: Conviction

Syphon Filter said:
The current batch have been out on the market for quite some time so I think I'd rather wait for the new hotness an snap it up immediately on release rather than buying some stuff that's almost EoL.
Click to expand...
Yeah you're gonna be waiting a long time then. More than likely you won't be able to get those new cards at release.
 
That's good to know. I was just in complete shock when every store I went into was like that!! Online delivery for the win I guess!

I am going to have a think about which way to go on this one...
 
You know I gotta whack you over the head for something that you said earlier (in another thread; emphasis mine)....

Syphon Filter said:
Oh come on, whenever you're building a machine for the ballpark figures that the OP is talking about there's always an element of epeen involved!! That's why most of us are here :D

I'm considering a similar sort of build; i7 930, 6GB Tri-channel and possibly SLI or Crossfire. My concern is the current batch of cards have been out for quite some time (particularly the ATI cards) with the GTX480 being the newest but only offering the performance of the ATI cards from 6months previous to its release :eek:

So I am tempted to hold off for a little while...I just can't decide at the moment.
Click to expand...

I'll just be frank: New parts are going to come all the time. That said, the parts that you're considering are going to perform just as well one year from now as they would a month or two from now. And if that newer, better video cards arrives? The beauty is that if you really want it, you could pick it up then -- and you won't have to build a completely new system around it.

If you want to wait for the new card(s) to arrive before you start your new build, that's your prerogative. But don't expect everything to change within a few short months.
 
Geez, a couple of GTX 460s in SLI is as new as it going to get.

And a damn good buy!! I mean, it has got to be close to a pair of HD 5870s in XFire based on the ass kicking it gave the HD 5850 Xfire on the [H] review.

You are not going to get a better gadget than this X58 build ;)
 
This is brilliant...

I have my own reluctance playing the angel on one shoulder, trying to keep some dosh in my wallet.

Then I have you guys playing the devil on the otherside..."do it, you won't regret it. Think of all the hi-res, AA & AF enabled gaming you could do"

I'll be honest, I've just been pricing up some stuff and there really are some kickass setups that I can squeeze into my budget, including crossfire/sli setups (maybe even a triple :eek:)

I'll be honest with you guys, I'm leaning towards just pulling the trigger on the biggest most beastly system I can...

I've basically nailed the entire spec except for the GPU(s). There are just too many options in my budget, single, dual and even triple!!
 
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