I have been looking into projectors and i have only been concidering LCD projectors because i find my self sensitive to refresh rates on CRT monitors, and LED signs, I hate those cars that have the LED brakes becase as i am driving they flicker all over in my field of vision, its hard to describe, either you know what i am talking about or you dont. I was woundering is it reasonable to assume i will be more likely to suffer from the rainbow effect on DLP projectors or should i concider a DLP projector as well? i find any refresh rate under 85hz very dificult to deal with and 100hz is optimal on a crt monitor
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Rainbow effect on DLP projectors
- Thread starter Loki008
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IDversusEGO
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with yor special sensitivty, you need to go view one. nobody will have your unique perspective. I haev a DLP projector and pretty much only see rainbows on sports. particularly football.
LEDs don't flicker at all, they can't... I have no idea what is going on with your eyes there.
But, DLP, there are more downsides than the rainbow thing. I don't see rainbows, but I have yet to see a DLP projector that doesn't just have a ton of 'noise' in the picture, especially with non-HD sources like DVD, but even some with HD material.
But, DLP, there are more downsides than the rainbow thing. I don't see rainbows, but I have yet to see a DLP projector that doesn't just have a ton of 'noise' in the picture, especially with non-HD sources like DVD, but even some with HD material.
frankgomez75
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NulloModo said:
Hmmm...... I have a 50" HD DLP with an HD2+ chip with a native display of 720P and I'm not sure what you mean by "noise" in the pictures.
Due to the fact that 720P DLP's have such a resolution, what you view as "noise" usually is the fact that the "non-hd" is of poor quality. Try taking a 320 x 240 image and blow it up to 1280 x 720 on a screen and then you'll see lots of blockiness.... "noise" and lots of other junk. Same thing with "minimum HD"... which is 480P. Its basically a 640 x 480 picture progressive.... but blown up to 1280 x 720 on a widescreen. You'll see the non-perfections. Now take a 1280 x 720 show and watch it on a 720P DLP and watch in amazement.
Sorry, but if you're in the market for HD, always make sure to watch a show in 720P or Higher, like 1080P. 480P and 1080i don't cut for me when watching HD. This is important. I know some people who would shop based soley on the picture being displayed which is bad. For example... you go to Bestbuy and see some HDTV's showing a 480P show or even worse... SDTV. Than you go to another store and those HDTV's are showing 720P shows. Obviosly the store displaying a 720P signal will make the TV's "look better"... but you may end up choosing a TV of lesser quality if the TV's at Best Buy were showing the same signal.
BTW.... I never see rainbow effects.... YMMV
SJetski71
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From the way i understand it, those who look for rainbows will definitely see them, and once you've seen them you'll often keep on seeing them. Now i'm sure that quip applies more to older DLP projectors than the newer ones, and to certain people more than others... you get the idea.
If your eyes are that discriminating then i'll recommend that you research before buying a DLP-based model as many of the newer models have lessened/cleared up the rainbow effect. Either way make sure to buy from a high rated merchant with a liberal return policy (just in case!).
Or you can just shoot for an lcd-based projector instead.
If your eyes are that discriminating then i'll recommend that you research before buying a DLP-based model as many of the newer models have lessened/cleared up the rainbow effect. Either way make sure to buy from a high rated merchant with a liberal return policy (just in case!).
Or you can just shoot for an lcd-based projector instead.
The rainbows only exist when the DLP projector uses the multicolor wheel. There are higher end DLP projectors that split the RGB up, instead of them going on the one color wheel. These units are more expensive, but it gets rid of the rainbow problem..
frankgomez75 said:
I currently have HDTV and i am well aware of it, i have a 32" CRT HDTV and love it, but i think its time for an upgrade. Unfortunatly i cant seem to think of anywhere in the area i can see projectors in use to see if i am affected by the rainbow effect or not and i will be purchasing the projector online so i would prefer to get as much info as possable before ordering since i would like to get it right on the first try. I would love to find a place that had the Z2 and Z3 in stock and get a demo of it since those are the 2 that i am concidering from what i have read.
frankgomez75 said:
Oh, it is definately there, and even some in HD programs on DLP sets. Stragely, I only see it in DLPs, not LCDs or CRTs.
A good HD set should be able to upconvert even lower quality signals and still make them look good. After all, what percentage of the content most people watch is in native HD? Also, 480p isn't an HD res, HD is only 720p, 1080i, or 1080p. I have a RP CRT HD set, and it can make even an interlaced DVD signal look incredibly clean and near HD in resolution with the built in upconverters. So, either Samsung (the main brand of DLP sets I have seen) is using a really crappy upconversion engine, or DLP has a noise problem.
frankgomez75
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NulloModo said:
You are correct... 480P is not HD....
Back to the noise... I still have to disagree. I would have to say it may be the programming material thats being broadcast. Have you seen this noise with a digital connection via a cable box or OTA (over the air) Antennae? What size was the TV and at what distance your viewing the material also plays a factor...
I'm on a motorola hd digital box and have it hooked up to my HTPC than an HDMI cable going from the HTPC to my DLP Set. No noise and clean as can be. I guess your eyes may be more sensitive... Now on SD material my shows look O.K., nothing to write home about... this may be because my HTPC uses Nvidias Filters and what not
We may have to agree to disagree on this one
frankgomez75 said:You are correct... 480P is not HD....
Back to the noise... I still have to disagree. I would have to say it may be the programming material thats being broadcast. Have you seen this noise with a digital connection via a cable box or OTA (over the air) Antennae? What size was the TV and at what distance your viewing the material also plays a factor...
I'm on a motorola hd digital box and have it hooked up to my HTPC than an HDMI cable going from the HTPC to my DLP Set. No noise and clean as can be. I guess your eyes may be more sensitive... Now on SD material my shows look O.K., nothing to write home about... this may be because my HTPC uses Nvidias Filters and what not
We may have to agree to disagree on this one
True, matters like this can easily just boil down to personal opinion. I viewed the sets from around 3' to 4' back (The distance that I view my set with at home), and the connection was digital from a central broadcast hub (standard big box CC/BB store setup). I have seen similar effects on almost any fixed pixel display, it just seems most evident to me on DLPs... then again, LCDs have terribly black levels for TV use (fine for a computer monitor IMO, since I don't watch movies on my computer monitor) and Plasmas are way to pricey for the screen space.
I still think CRT or RP CRT is by far the best way to go for a TV, though of course the potential burn in, convergence adjustments, and bulk are drawbacks. I'm willing to live with them for the picture quality benefit I get, and fixed pixel displays do look better on native HD content, they just suffer at everything else. Then again, the next time I have to pick up my 350 lb monster of a TV I will probably wish I had a DLP....
threeclaws
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NulloModo said:
CRT based sets will tend to show SD material better than digital based sets (DLP/LCD) it is all in the design, I know when it comes to absolute picture quality I will take a CRT based display over anything digital on the market, however when you are carrying a 500lbs set (exaggeration) up a flight of stairs you long for a 50lbs DLP set
butterfliesrpretty
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NulloModo said:
There is no extra noise on dlp sets, this is not one of the problems with this technology. You may be seeing more noise simply because the set is brighter, thats the only thing I can think of.
As to the rainbow effect, it is there on projectors that use slower color wheels. The tv's and newer projectors are using much faster color wheels. The problem is non existent on the current tv's.
I've sold many many dlp sets, and have never had a single person complain about rainbows.
While its true there that something like only 5-15% of people will actually notice rainbows they are still there even on some newer sets. However as butterfliesrpretty said its mainly dependant on the speed and number of segments used in the color wheel. I can see Rainbows on both of my Samsung DLP tv's but I can still watch them without a headache as some tend to get from Rainbows.
Most newer mid-level and above DLP projectors will be using a fast enough / segmented enough color wheel to not cause the effect or atleast minimize it.
Most newer mid-level and above DLP projectors will be using a fast enough / segmented enough color wheel to not cause the effect or atleast minimize it.