Receiver: Pioneer, Onkyo, something else?

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oqvist

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I have been looking into receivers like TX-SR706, TX-SR607, and the PioneerVSX-1018AH-K and some others.

In this price class what would you recommend. Music, movies, gaming. the 607 have some "game mode". worries me a bit. It´s also often recommended more for movies then games so maybe to boomy? Is the 706 a better option for music playback. However I have a Keces 131 mk 2 DAC so maybe that is better then all these for stereo cd playback?

I am getting a XTZ 89 satellite based system with the XTZ 99 10" sub and from what I understood none of these should have trouble powering them. On all these you can biamp the front channels if you would run short for music.

Is there any better receivers out there? Yamaha, Sony etc? The dream would be to find one with VGA out but that doesn´t seem to exist.



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Might add if there is any receivers in the price range that doesn´t support the HD formats but is plainly better SQ wise they are also an option.
 
Sony isn´t supposed to be good with SQ from what I read.

So you say Denon is the best or Yamaha in term of SQ? Any specific versions?
 
oqvist said:
Sony isn´t supposed to be good with SQ from what I read.

So you say Denon is the best or Yamaha in term of SQ? Any specific versions?
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Many folks like the Yamaha RX-V663 (which is last years model and can be found for decent prices online). It however only has 2 HDMI ports but does decode the newest formats (and sounds good based on the reviews). Another place to do research and read much more detailed threads would be avsforums Amp's, Recievers and Processors forum. As an example the Official RX-V663 thread is around 1000+ posts. You will find similar "official" threads on other receivers.
 
I went from a Yamaha HTR-6xxx something (100x5) to a Denon AVR1602 (75x5 no HDMI) and I think it was the best decision I could have made. No matter where you would crossover, the sub would just decide to cut out on the HTR. The Denon has a much more neutral, flat sound as well to my ears.
 
Denons are hugely expensive over here though. My parents have one from the early 90s or something I don´t really like it´s signature that much compared to my system. It´s to soft and lack dynamics a bit but very easy listening.

I think I narrowed it down. Marantz 5003, Onkyo 607 or Onkyo 706 (seems to be about the same price since I found some demo ex). 607 more features and may run cooler? 706 having THX certification does it mean anything? More important then being able to mount speakers on the roof like you can with the Yamahas and the 607...

Yamaha looks nice but from reviews I have had to cut it from the list... Also am I right that all of these supports Dolby headphone? Only seen it listed on the Marantz I think it was.
 
Well after decided for onkyo, denon, marantz, onkyo I now landed on the Yamaha 663 I do think anyway ;)

Would there be any problem hooking up an external DAC with RCA and make it act like an amp? Would that give me 2.0 or could I get 2.1 somehow? Or could it make more channels as well?
 
Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K, hands down. I have the elite version. Excellent receiver.:cool: Check it out on avsforum.com
 
Looked into it but it doesn´t get that great reviews. Not bad either though. To late anyway I laid my order now. btw what is this 12V trigger thingie?
 
Now we're talking my language...
I have a choice of almost any receiver on the market, because for my day job I do custom home theaters for a living.

The Onkyo 706 will outperform anything at it's price for sound quality. Period. I've got a client who's running Monitor Audio Gold series floor standing speakers off it. These are $3000 speakers. Could they use more power, yup...do they sound great off the 706...definitely!

That was enough to sell me on it. We tried the Pioneer SC-05, not enough juice.

As for Yamaha...never. Overpriced junk. No better than Sony in my opinion. Underpowered is an understatement. We measured the output wattage on model from last year (I don't remember which one), it was supposed to put out 140 wpc...we managed 38 wpc before distortion, 7 channels driven with pink noise. I was appalled.

Denon's sound good, but to get the same thing as the Onkyo, you have to spend an extra $200.

Harman Kardon's have problems with HDMI switching. They don't like 1080p running through them.

Now, to change my tune a bit, IF you're running external amplifiers, buy the Pioneer...it makes a spectacular pre-amp. It's just the amp side that comes up a bit short.

All this depends on which speakers you're running. IF you're running smaller bookshelf speakers and a sub, go with the TX-SR606 from Onkyo...if the speakers are larger (like a floor standing set) go up to the 706.

My two cents...bring on the flames!!!!
 
Oh, and a 12v trigger is to activate anything with a 12v input, such as an amp, power conditioner, or screen.

When the receiver turns on, it sends a 12v signal that triggers the other piece of equipment.
 
I don´t see how the yamaha is overpriced since it´s cheaper then the 706 by quite a margin and at the same price point as the 606 where it has more features that makes sense for me. More HDMI inputs would have been nice of course for future proofing but there is HDMI switches if I need it. Currently I just have the PS 3 for HDMI but may get a PC soundcard with HDMI later on. Dual pre outs, full preouts otherwise too so should work great as preamp, silent Cinema (will still use headphones quite a bit I suspect), the presence speakers which you need a 607 to get otherwise which is 2000 SEK more then the 606 but still a bit cheaper then the 706. Running a XTZ 89 Satellite 5.1 system with the 89 center I suspect all above mentioned would be more then enough for below 100 db listening in a small room I do hope. I don´t know if XTZ is supposed to be power hungry or efficient though.. The sub is active powered so don´t put any pressure on the receiver.
 
I'd go Onkyo 607 with a second to the 706. But depending on how the features (the ones you want) line up you could switch those first vs second and be fine.

Denon third, but more expensive to get the same sound. They tend to focus on features first but that's how some folks like it.
 
avsforum!

One thing to keep in mind, on your journey, is that there has been a sea change in 2009 receivers... 2009 receiver models across the board are (a) adding better HDMI and HD format decode options and (b) dramatically cutting back on amp quality. This is occurring at almost every price point for all the major players... Yamaha, Denon, Onkyo, etc.

In some bases, if you really do not need say True HD over HDMI decode support, a 2008 model might be not only cheaper but a better unit for driving speakers.
 
+1 to sphinx99's comment on amp quality cutbacks for this year's crop of receivers.

I've not been very impressed with Onkyo since my TX-DS898 was the centerpiece of my home theater back in 2000.
 
If you go with the Onkyo 607 just know you can't use an external amp down the road. The unit doesn't have pre-amp outputs. Other than that it's a great unit, I loved mine. I'm currently using a yamaha 663, comparable unit. I found yamaha's sound to be a bit to bright for me, but everybody differs. I'd be more worried about your speakers than your head unit. Electrical/mechanical failure non-withstanding, a comparably priced unit from any of the major manufacturers (Dennon, Yamaha, Onkyo, pioneer....etc) will do what you need it to do just fine.
 
Geronimo said:
Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K, hands down. I have the elite version. Excellent receiver.:cool: Check it out on avsforum.com
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I suggest the Pioneer as well, I've had Yamaha, Sony, Harman Kardon as well and I always come back to Pioneer. Just something about how they sound.

If you can afford an Elite, you will never regret it.
 
thebeephaha said:
I suggest the Pioneer as well, I've had Yamaha, Sony, Harman Kardon as well and I always come back to Pioneer. Just something about how they sound.

If you can afford an Elite, you will never regret it.
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Recent stuff from Harman Int'l brands, Yamaha and Sony aren't that great. Apparently Sony is better than it used to be in the last few years, but probably still not worth looking at, compared to Denon or Onkyo..

BTW, are NAD, Rotel still worth looking at? I haven't heard about their recent stuff much.

(b) dramatically cutting back on amp quality
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Isn't it happening since the late 70s?
 
I'm using the Onkyo 875 and am hugely impressed with it, it gives a massive very precise detailed sound that is easy on the ears and has all the features you will need including pre-amp out. HDMI handling for audio and video is great.
It also has biwiring for the front pair and another zone for somewhere else in the house.
I did a lot of reading on current and future models at the time of buying and last years Onkyo models are fantastic.
Only thing to be aware of is that some run pretty hot so you will probably want around a 2 watt fan to draw hot air out of the top. I made a fan using 2x 80mm PC fans in an external hard drive case with holes cut out.

Any of the newer Onkyos or models from the 605 upwards will impress you.
 
DragonMaster said:
Recent stuff from Harman Int'l brands, Yamaha and Sony aren't that great. Apparently Sony is better than it used to be in the last few years, but probably still not worth looking at, compared to Denon or Onkyo..

BTW, are NAD, Rotel still worth looking at? I haven't heard about their recent stuff much.


Isn't it happening since the late 70s?
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Not sure of NAD or Rotel receivers, but Rotel amps and processors are pretty nice. I was going to grab a Rotel processor until I found a decent deal on an Outlaw Audio processor.
 
thebeephaha said:
I suggest the Pioneer as well, I've had Yamaha, Sony, Harman Kardon as well and I always come back to Pioneer. Just something about how they sound.

If you can afford an Elite, you will never regret it.
Click to expand...
+1 for Pioneer Elite. I've got the SC-05 for my home theater. Great product!
 
sphinx99 said:
avsforum!

One thing to keep in mind, on your journey, is that there has been a sea change in 2009 receivers... 2009 receiver models across the board are (a) adding better HDMI and HD format decode options and (b) dramatically cutting back on amp quality. This is occurring at almost every price point for all the major players... Yamaha, Denon, Onkyo, etc.

In some bases, if you really do not need say True HD over HDMI decode support, a 2008 model might be not only cheaper but a better unit for driving speakers.
Click to expand...

Is there anything specific to watch for? I'm wanting to upgrade to something that can fully utilize audio over HDMI
 
The Onkyo 706 seems to support all the new audio formats, except ProLogic IIz, which is only supported by a handful of receivers, and supposed to expand 5.1 to 7.1, so it's not absolutely necessary.
 
DragonMaster said:
The Onkyo 706 seems to support all the new audio formats, except ProLogic IIz, which is only supported by a handful of receivers, and supposed to expand 5.1 to 7.1, so it's not absolutely necessary.
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That's not entirely correct. ProLogic IIz, adds height channels to the front soundstage. So you can have 5.1 or 7.1 with 2 additional speaker above your left and right front channels, for a total of 7 OR 9 speakers.

You are right to say that it's not absolutely necessary because there aren't movie soundtracks encoded with height channels yet... but there will be some video games coming this year that will support ProLogic IIz.
 
OK, so the Onkyo 607 (the only one I saw with IIz support) is limited to 5.1 + height in that config... Any cheap 9.1 amps out there?
 
The 663 Yamaha is limited to 7.2. It uses the rear surround for presence speakers. Whereas the 607 is supposed to do 9.1? Why would that not work for the 607?.

Question on the Yamaha you don´t need dolby support to use presence speakers... Do you need to run movies, games that support IIz to use the height speakers on the onkyo or can it emulate them as well? or is IIx another form of IIz just limited to 7.1?
 
I have a question for OP. Do you require the latest HDMI versions? If not, you can consider the rrecertified Marantz SR6001 from A4L. Ive never had it, but many still praise Marantz for their SQ, as well as their good built. A4L is authorized by Marantz, so the warranty will be honored, in case you need something fixed. I was gonna get this, but i snagged an H/K AVR 340 receiver for $130 off of Harman-International's Ebay website.
 
DragonDude said:
I have a question for OP. Do you require the latest HDMI versions? If not, you can consider the rrecertified Marantz SR6001 from A4L. Ive never had it, but many still praise Marantz for their SQ, as well as their good built. A4L is authorized by Marantz, so the warranty will be honored, in case you need something fixed. I was gonna get this, but i snagged an H/K AVR 340 receiver for $130 off of Harman-International's Ebay website.
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+1 on MarantzI can say they sound friggin awesome (but I am going with an Integra as my blu ray HTPC requires it :D)

Might want to read up on avsforum.com on any of the recievers your looking that. They have way to much info for my liking (its a overload and I understand very little of it lol, but it might answer any questions you have)
 
I got the Yamaha RX-V663B now. Brand new speakers and such but after calibrating it with YPAO it starts to sound pretty damn good together with some 10-20h burn in at least so far :)

But really calibrating really gave me the treble I was missing. My speakers are quite neutral and I am happy to see the Yamaha not trying to run some bass boost or treble exciters. Sounds pretty hifi to me comparing to my studio headphones :)

Easy to setup and use. The only real disappointing feature is the weak signal from the sub pre outs. Not so much problem for my sub since it has it´s own amplifier which let you adjust volume and have enough headroom. But my Buttkicker LFE power amp which I seldom go over 50 % at I now need to run 100 % to get the effect I want. Enough for movies but sometimes I want more for music. And I get a hum from the transformer when running that high volume on it. Hopefully just due to using el cheapo rca cables.

As for latest yes it´s nice future proofing if I get gear that can bit stream HD audio. I am running PS 3. Another question. Do I get HD audio if I choose truehd or dts master HD or do I have to choose like on 300 the 5.1 pcm audio?

I couldn´t really tell much difference between dolby digital and dolby trueHD on 300 but there was difference with the 5.1 pcm audio... Mind you not always to the better a bit muffled dialogue but otherwise definiatly more meat so to speak.

The receiver just say pcm no matter what audio stream I choose. Is there any way to get info on the receiver on the bit rate and that way figure out if you get HD audio? Since I have new speakers I always get HD audio no matter what. I can´t see how any other receiver can do it better with these particular speakers... I did try some different DSP modes. Though for those to work don´t you need the receiver to decode the signal? Or is it a two way step? PS 3 decoding to PCM which is still digital and then the Receiver can still process it? They don´t seem to go wild on these mods if they do work which I appreciate. I did preferr the adventure movie mode over the standard but again may be placebo or just the specific parts of the movie I watched in adventure mode had more open audio lol.

But well I don´t think I could do better for the money. I tried it with the Keces DAC and even though it´s better as you would expect it´s just a matter of preference so the DAC department certainly aren´t bad on this one.

I also like that it runs reasonable cool. I just have a 3x2,5 meter room so it can get pretty hot :)
 
The receiver just say pcm no matter what audio stream I choose.
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The PS3 can convert compressed formats to LPCM. Somewhere in the options, you can switch between Bitstream and PCM.
 
But since ps3 can´t bitstream HD audio I should choose PCM there or?
 
I tried enabling the bit stream function on the PS 3 and I got old plain DTS 1,5 mb/s.

I may also wonder what all these presets do. I suppose it´s activated also when running PCM. I hardly can hear a difference between sci-fi, adventure etc etc :)
 
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