Setting up big network in parent's new house

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killernoodle

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So my parents are building a house and they charged me with setting up a network for them. This is a big house, and they have some pretty big concerns. Currently, they have ethernet cable running to 8 rooms plus an additional cable going to the attic above the 3rd story for a WAP (question about that in a second). The cables all run down to the basement in the theater electronics room where I need to put the modem and networking gear. There will also be a Denon 3808ci that will be plugged into the network and an xbox360 and ps3 hardwired in.

Basically, the problem is that I'm going to need a lot of ports on my switch. Also, I have a few questions about the setup of the system.

Does the network structure need to look like this?

Modem -> Router -> Switch -> (Computers and WAP)

Or like this?

Modem -> Router -> WAP and (Switch -> Computers)

Do I still need a router for the firewall? Also, will a good WAP in the attic be able to transmit all over a very large 3 story house and outside some? My dad likes to take his laptop everywhere. Also, I'm a little confused about how to plug things into the switch. Can I just plug everything into it and it sorts everything out by itself (I'm talking about a so called "smart" switch)?

I'm a computer science major, but I'm a real noob when it comes to networking. :p
 
killernoodle said:
So my parents are building a house and they charged me with setting up a network for them. This is a big house, and they have some pretty big concerns. Currently, they have ethernet cable running to 8 rooms plus an additional cable going to the attic above the 3rd story for a WAP (question about that in a second). The cables all run down to the basement in the theater electronics room where I need to put the modem and networking gear. There may also be a WAP here (question about that in a second as well), as well as a Denon 3808ci that will be plugged into the network and an xbox360 and ps3 hardwired in.

Basically, the problem is that I'm going to need a lot of ports on my switch. Also, I have a few questions about the setup of the system.

Does the network structure need to look like this?

Modem -> Router -> Switch -> (Computers and WAPs)

Or like this?

Modem -> Router -> WAPs and (Switch -> Computers)

Do I still need a router for the firewall? Also, if I have multiple WAPs (like one in the basement and one in the 3rd floor attic, can they act as one wireless connection throughout the house and outside with a strong signal? My dad likes to take his laptop everywhere. Also, I'm a little confused about how to plug things into the switch. Can I just plug everything into it and it sorts everything out by itself (I'm talking about a so called "smart" switch)?

I'm a computer science major, but I'm a real noob when it comes to networking. :p
Click to expand...

I would have your electrician if they haven't already... terminate all of the network runs to a patch panel. Then get small 1 - 3ft cat5e to run to a 16port or better gigabit network switch. Most new switches are autosensing and you no longer need to make a crossover cable to go from a router to the switch. Basically you're going to take the network cable from the modem... run it to your router's WAN port, then take one of the LAN ports off the router and run it to any port on the switch. Then the other wires run to the various parts of the house will be connected to the switch.

Setup is going to go... Modem - Router - Switch - Computers and WAPs


Next... I would strategically place WAPs at locations that will provide the best wireless signal throughout. This is something you need to decide on. To get one big network through multiple access points you'll want to name each SSID the same, keep all on the same channel, and have the same security keys. The WAPs we use have a 4 port switch built into them and even though it provides wireless signal it also offers the option to plug a hard wire into if you're having wireless issues.

Your Dad isn't going to be happy with a single wireless access point. I believe the rule is one AP for every 5000sq ft if located dead center. I would be safe and do 1 about every 3000. Also have your electrician run an extra set of power and network cables outside if he wants to work out there. You can get a waterproof box to put an access point in, but that's up to you.

We've setup a lot of large houses (15k+ sqft) this way and it seems to be a solid setup and the clients are happy.


btw, if you need any equipment let me know... I could even pre-configure it at my office and send it out.
 
I cant help with the wireless part but I can help with the switch. You probally dont need a smart switch also called a managed switched. Those are typically used in bussiness enviroments though I suppose you could use them in a home network. With the switch all you need to do is plug in what you need to and the switch will handle the routing. A gigabit switch with CAT5e cable would probally be your best bet. Newegg has a pretty good selection of switches. From what you have listed you will need to use a router not only for a basic firewall but also NAT. I'm not entirely sure if the the placement of the WAPs to the switches will make an effective diffrence or not, personally I would have the hardware running like this.

Modem -> Router -> Switch -> WAPs (Computers off the switch).

Hope that helps you a bit.
 
Ok, so I can run multiple WAPs. Thats a relief. I was reading stuff as I was posting this and it looked like I couldn't. Since the WAPs will be in the basement and attic, I think it should provide adequate coverage around the house. I might be able to move them into different unused network plugs if necessary if I dont have enough coverage. The house is 8000 ish sq.ft. IIRC, so 2 should be ok. And its also a relief that I don't need a managed switch, because I'd probably just screw all that mess up too.

Thanks guys!
 
You can start with that and see how the coverage is. Is the house more tall or long? Also take into account the material being used to build the house. If it's steel coverage is going to be crappy. A lot of the bigger houses we setup are "over built" and between the wall coverings, thicker moldings etc the signal doesn't seem to last as long. Also kitchens... A/C ducts etc knock down signal. Wireless is line of sight... so draw straight lines between the WAP and the client.
 
Its pretty big and long at the same time. I think having one WAP up high will serve the upstairs and part of the downstairs pretty well. The one in the basement will serve the basement and the rooms above it, unfortunately the basement is all steel reinforced concrete, so I dont think the signal will go laterally very far.

I'll try it with 2 WAPs and then expand if necessary. Thanks for the input guys!
 
Definately have things terminated on a patch panel and all the runs labeled on the jacks in the rooms and then on the patch panel.
This will make things so much easier.
 
All the cables are already labeled by the russian guys that installed our home automation and audio stuff. They wanted to charge my dad $800 for a 4 port router and $1100 for an 8 port to hook up the network in there. I told my dad they were crazy :D The other work they did is pretty bad ass. There are 8 rooms in the house with wired in speakers. Each of these rooms has a dedicated amp and a wall plate that you can choose from 4 audio sources. Each of these rooms also has an intercom that can talk to any other room, conference with any other room, and answer the doorbells and talk to the people ringing the bell. They also have IR repeaters in the wall plate so you can control the audio system in the basement from any room in the house. Its pretty sweet, there is cat-5 all over the house for the audio system and network. Very cool stuff indeed!

I'm pretty stoked about wiring up the house, its gonna be off the heezy.:D
 
fluidimagery said:
I would have your electrician if they haven't already... terminate all of the network runs to a patch panel. Then get small 1 - 3ft cat5e to run to a 16port or better gigabit network switch. Most new switches are autosensing and you no longer need to make a crossover cable to go from a router to the switch. Basically you're going to take the network cable from the modem... run it to your router's WAN port, then take one of the LAN ports off the router and run it to any port on the switch. Then the other wires run to the various parts of the house will be connected to the switch.

Setup is going to go... Modem - Router - Switch - Computers and WAPs


Next... I would strategically place WAPs at locations that will provide the best wireless signal throughout. This is something you need to decide on. To get one big network through multiple access points you'll want to name each SSID the same, keep all on the same channel, and have the same security keys. The WAPs we use have a 4 port switch built into them and even though it provides wireless signal it also offers the option to plug a hard wire into if you're having wireless issues.

Your Dad isn't going to be happy with a single wireless access point. I believe the rule is one AP for every 5000sq ft if located dead center. I would be safe and do 1 about every 3000. Also have your electrician run an extra set of power and network cables outside if he wants to work out there. You can get a waterproof box to put an access point in, but that's up to you.

We've setup a lot of large houses (15k+ sqft) this way and it seems to be a solid setup and the clients are happy.


btw, if you need any equipment let me know... I could even pre-configure it at my office and send it out.
Click to expand...

Great Info, Second that. Has some great points.
 
If you are running the WAP's to weird spots in the house and/or outside look into POE injectors. That way you don't need to be able to get to a power socket to plug them in.

Everything else mentioned is solid advice. Follow it and enjoy the results.
 
shade_star said:
Definately have things terminated on a patch panel and all the runs labeled on the jacks in the rooms and then on the patch panel.
This will make things so much easier.
Click to expand...

Yes, you need to do this, I have all my rg6, rj11 and rj45 terminate to a single location. It's all labelled and you just need to plug into the switch for you network and connect the coax for whatever rooms you need it to go to.

I have the wireless n router in the basement and the a wireless g router configured as an access point on the main floor in the family room. Together, they cover the 5000 sq feet without any problems, you may be able to get away with just the two, depends on how far you want it to go into the yard. You can get waterproof access points to mount on the rear of your house if you want one specifically for outside coverage.
 
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