Toms Hardware- Is Ageia Failing?

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i think both sources are just as bad, so i take everything with a grain of salt... but im bored at work so i will read it anyway :)
 
It seems very dated though. They are doing benches with cellfactor that was done a month ago. They also don't state that ATI/Nvidia can now handle both sets of physics. So yeah they seem to be like old folks in this fight.
 
Well the reason that sparked this new review is one of their forum members figured out how to run the demo without a physics card.

So when they ran their new set of benches they were astounded to find out that not only did a normal pc setup do everything just fine without the card ...they got the same frame rates as well :eek:

So the question begs to be asked if you could do all the physics in the game already with no drop in fps, then why on Earth do you need to buy a damn physics card?

I thought the article was very insightfull and damn near explosive for Ageia
 
|CR|Constantine said:
So when they ran their new set of benches they were astounded to find out that not only did a normal pc setup do everything just fine without the card ...they got the same frame rates as well :eek:
Click to expand...
On old drivers... THG blows it again!

</outdatedthread>
 
cyks said:
On old drivers... THG blows it again!

</outdatedthread>
Click to expand...
They used 2.4.3 which my guess isn't leaps and bounds slower then 2.4.4 so I am guessing there benches wouldn't change much if they upgraded there drivers.

Hell even in the change log for the drivers there is nothing mentioned about cellfactor

Changes In 2.4.4

Performance Improvements:
Misc. application-specific optimizations included for City Of Villains
Technical Software Enhancements
Fixed Error in which static shapes were not being re-sync'd to the PPU when their extents were changed
Clean up pair-nodes with PF_NO_CONTACTS when either shape is deleted
Use mesh-small-convex routine for mesh v box collisions
Fixed some logic bugs in convex-mesh and small-convex-mesh algorithms
Made the adaptive sub-step controller run smoother for frames which require no sub-step
 
|CR|Constantine said:
Well the reason that sparked this new review is one of their forum members figured out how to run the demo without a physics card.

So when they ran their new set of benches they were astounded to find out that not only did a normal pc setup do everything just fine without the card ...they got the same frame rates as well :eek:

So the question begs to be asked if you could do all the physics in the game already with no drop in fps, then why on Earth do you need to buy a damn physics card?

I thought the article was very insightfull and damn near explosive for Ageia
Click to expand...

Near the end they explain why the card is needed and that is because of the flag. Without the card fps goes to 1fps with the card it's playable. Now my question about this is a. How much of the ppu is being used for that one flag? can you have 10 of those flags in a scene and not have a major slowdown from the ppu? B. If Artificial Intelligence took the time to optimize the code for the CPU would it run faster? I am guessing they arn't really worried about how the cloth runs on the cpu so it's not something they are considering wasting time on since they are getting some funding by Ageia.
 
Good thing I can't see the links but Tom's is a moron site.
They blamed AGEIA for the problems in Havok's physcis...LINKY

Terra - Enough said... :rolleyes:
 
cyks said:
On old drivers... THG blows it again!

</outdatedthread>
Click to expand...

*LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL*
I just saw that :D
TomsHardware...welcome to yesterday :D

Terra - Madre mia... :rolleyes:
 
Terra said:
Good thing I can't see the links but Tom's is a moron site.
They blamed AGEIA for the problems in Havok's physcis...LINKY

Terra - Enough said... :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Yup you have me on ignore so you can't see what i say which I love because then you can't counter point my stuff with any of your Ageia PR FUD

Anyhow the Inquirer has probably had more stories wrong and had more mistakes then Toms Hardware has ever had. So don't post any more of there links unless your going to accept all reviews/interviews as truths.

Oh also the flag is an effect physics (no interaction with scene and it dosn't effect anything in the scene) the liquid is an effect physics (same) and the pipes can be done on a cpu so technicly you can't call Cellfactor a game with both kinds of physics that need the card just effects.
 
|CR|Constantine said:
Well the reason that sparked this new review is one of their forum members figured out how to run the demo without a physics card.

So when they ran their new set of benches they were astounded to find out that not only did a normal pc setup do everything just fine without the card ...they got the same frame rates as well :eek:

So the question begs to be asked if you could do all the physics in the game already with no drop in fps, then why on Earth do you need to buy a damn physics card?

I thought the article was very insightfull and damn near explosive for Ageia
Click to expand...

You should learn to read, even Tom's got this one rigth:

Below is an image showing the dual cores of the AMD Athlon 64 FX-60 instantly being given large amounts of work to do. The frame rates suffer from a smooth data flow from the CPU. Based on what we have seen, the cloth simulation inside Cell Factor is brutal and will need hardware acceleration.
Click to expand...

Terra - Not to talk about fluids ect... :rolleyes:
 
The point of the article though, is that aside from the flag and the liquid, the Phsyx card has a very marginal effect on the performance of the game/techdemo.
 
But that is the whole purpose of the card is for crap like that. Although those are only effect physics not anything real.
 
jimmyb said:
The point of the article though, is that aside from the flag and the liquid, the Phsyx card has a very marginal effect on the performance of the game/techdemo.
Click to expand...
Optimizations are done on the game-side with the physx solution.
 
psychoace said:
Near the end they explain why the card is needed and that is because of the flag. Without the card fps goes to 1fps with the card it's playable. Now my question about this is a. How much of the ppu is being used for that one flag? can you have 10 of those flags in a scene and not have a major slowdown from the ppu? B. If Artificial Intelligence took the time to optimize the code for the CPU would it run faster? I am guessing they arn't really worried about how the cloth runs on the cpu so it's not something they are considering wasting time on since they are getting some funding by Ageia.
Click to expand...
The physX API is a cross platform API wich supports also Consoles And CPU and PPU as a platform. So the API is First optimised for CPU physcs Proscesing. Novodex.
Havok(FX) dito.
Fluid and cloths are a PhysX dissipline wich are very PhysX computational to do in software(CPU) So it has not much to do with lack of optimisation. Its like tell John carmack to optimise Quake4 so it could run on a XT with a EGA card. There is a optimisation limit. JC is a optimise assambler guru. His games are very optimised for efficentcy.

There is no 3Dmark ish wich bench every different PhysX effect to know its load on CPU or PPU and every SM3.0 GPU. It will come one day I think.
Apperantly colliding boxes in the 1000 isn't much load for a CPU. Fluid, cloths are a lot heavier even on this still low physics detail.
Oh also the flag is an effect physics (no interaction with scene and it dosn't effect anything in the scene) the liquid is an effect physics (same) and the pipes can be done on a cpu so technicly you can't call Cellfactor a game with both kinds of physics that need the card just effects.
Click to expand...
Flag could be a Effect Physic. but not in CF.
You can shoot it and rip it apart this is player interaction. So gameplay PhysX as it interact with the player.
Altho so High up it has no deep gameplay means.

But put somewhere low in the play field as a view obstruction, as a screen where you can hide for consealed sniping. Curtains in buildings. Tents. Like you have a M249 you spot some foo entering a large tent so you fire randomly true the tent.
that's gameplay physX.

Currently not put to good used in CF combat training. But that just one map. the possibility are endless. From worse to, very important, better Maps. Wich put PhysX to good use. Not as some slam up icing on the cake in Limbostation.
-------------------
Besides this toms second review of old news is just someone opinion. Wih a high porfile.There isn't much news in PhysX land. Like new released PhysX games. That take time. The next review of news of where its hading is like around crhismass or begin next year. when more games are out.

And we know if any game put PhysX to good use or not.

Each released Game or PhysX patch would be news wich can change the situation slighly or not or totaly(killergame).
 
jimmyb said:
Yes you can see that in the 2-3 fps boost Physx gives the game.
Click to expand...

We are talking about PPU's, not GPU's...
PPU's enchane/increases the physcis...GPU's increases FPS/IQ and the CPU orchestrates it all + A.I.


Like the articles states the cloth in CellFactor hurts the CPU BIGTIME...while the PPU does it without breaking a sweat.

Terra...
 
SuperGee said:
The physX API is a cross platform API wich supports also Consoles And CPU and PPU as a platform. So the API is First optimised for CPU physcs Proscesing. Novodex.
Havok(FX) dito.
Fluid and cloths are a PhysX dissipline wich are very PhysX computational to do in software(CPU) So it has not much to do with lack of optimisation. Its like tell John carmack to optimise Quake4 so it could run on a XT with a EGA card. There is a optimisation limit. JC is a optimise assambler guru. His games are very optimised for efficentcy.

There is no 3Dmark ish wich bench every different PhysX effect to know its load on CPU or PPU and every SM3.0 GPU. It will come one day I think.
Apperantly colliding boxes in the 1000 isn't much load for a CPU. Fluid, cloths are a lot heavier even on this still low physics detail.

Flag could be a Effect Physic. but not in CF.
You can shoot it and rip it apart this is player interaction. So gameplay PhysX as it interact with the player.
Altho so High up it has no deep gameplay means.

But put somewhere low in the play field as a view obstruction, as a screen where you can hide for consealed sniping. Curtains in buildings. Tents. Like you have a M249 you spot some foo entering a large tent so you fire randomly true the tent.
that's gameplay physX.

Currently not put to good used in CF combat training. But that just one map. the possibility are endless. From worse to, very important, better Maps. Wich put PhysX to good use. Not as some slam up icing on the cake in Limbostation.
-------------------
Besides this toms second review of old news is just someone opinion. Wih a high porfile.There isn't much news in PhysX land. Like new released PhysX games. That take time. The next review of news of where its hading is like around crhismass or begin next year. when more games are out.

And we know if any game put PhysX to good use or not.

Each released Game or PhysX patch would be news wich can change the situation slighly or not or totaly(killergame).
Click to expand...

Um the flag is an effect physics because it's all 1 direction from cpu to gpu. The flag dosn't fall onto anyone nor does it cause interaction with any other object. So the card will just render out the the visual beating the flag will get when it's shot. Just like the dino demo from Nvidia you can throw a rock at the statue and it will explode it's just you can't take damage from the debris distributed in the scene because that would need the gpu to render back to the cpu. In Cellfactor the ripped flag could still be held in memory so any shots after the first will effect the flag even after it's been torn. Maybe I am wrong and maybe the card can't store stuff in it's memory but it's just an idea.
 
Well there you go a review by a major site, and it says AGEIA is failing.

LOL, Terra is in huge denial.

Flexmaster....
 
This is not going to turn into a "Dump on terra" thread and since when is Tom's good for accurate articles? :confused:
 
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