What is the current best gaming 24" LCD monitor?

I like the Asus. I dont know if its some overdrive ghosting (cant exactly toggle it) or just pixel response, but my only complaint would be that I cant track motion as fast compared to a CRT. From the test data I have seen though, this monitor is as good as it gets... so from a LCD POV... yeah, for gaming, its a good deal IMO... not to mention, they have pretty slim bezels.
 
I just bought an LH236H from newegg reading good things about it and lag time, and it being the "Evo" monitor for fighting games. I've read other good things about other minimal lag LCD monitors, but can't find them for sale from a place I'd care to order from online.

However, I never stubled across any numbers on it in my google searches. And, even if I had, I figured I'd test it in case I got some new revision that was slower or something. Who knows.

As I've gone through the trouble, I figured I'd post my results, as I appreciated those who posted similar results on other models I felt I should.

Now I'm no expert, but I do know the difference between "response time" and "input lag." That said, I am not certain of every sigle process that affect the image from CPU to GPU core to Monitor. I tried to minimize variables, but I wouldn't be surprised if I missed any. I AM NOT STATING THESE RESULTS ARE 100% ACCURATE OR CONCLUSIVE.

I used the Timer at http://tft.vanity.dk/inputlag.html and took pictures of both screens.

Some results showed a split number or two superimposed numbers that were sometimes--though rarerly--2 frames apart. The Flash application timer was set to use hardware acceleration. I have no idea if it applies or not, but my prerendered frame number was set to 3. Perhaps I should set this to zero or 1 for further testing? There may be something else applicable I don't know about either. Feel free to post any ideas or _constructive_ criticism.

When it comes reviewing the results of all these pictures, I don't like to throw results out, because throwing them out I feel can skew the results a bit. What if all of the mixed numbers for whatever reason tended to favor one monitor over the other for some reason? Every picture did represent a moment in time by both monitors display. I'd rather throw in approximated values as approx representations. -->>You may feel otherwise: If so, there raw data is there. Process it as you see fit<<--

Later I'll try to post the pictures. If I get around to it, Maybe results through DVI out -> DVI to HDMI adaptor -> HDMI in on VH236H. I'd also like to see if "Scenery mode" has a significant reduction, because if it does not, I'd prefer to use it as it has darker blacks, that I couldn't get from tweaknig brightness/contrast settings in game mode. Don't hold your breath though.

Two sets of results follow, 720p and 1080p. image exposure time = 1/250 second. By "frame" below I mean ~16ms


LEGEND/KEY: (you don't need to read the key unless you want to interpret my data or see how I arrived at my numbers)
+= +1 = Clearly VH236H 1 frame ahead of CRT
n= +0.5 = LCD shows two numbers, both same (CRT) frame, and next frame CRT show solid number
r= +0.5 = LCD shows 1 number, CRT shows 0 and 1 frame behind LCD
0= 0 = clearly same time shown
y= 0 = LCD and CRT both show split numbers, but split numbers are the same
z= 0 = LCD shows blurred both one frame behind, and one frame ahead of CRT solid number
a= 0 = LCD shows solid number, CRT shows prev and next frame relative to LCD
g= -.25 = grey area between h and 0. Same frame number is much more dominant than prev on LCD
h= -0.5 = LCD shows two numbers, half same frame, half previous frame CRT shows solid number
j= -0.5 = LCD shows 1 number, CRT shows same number and one frame ahead of LCD
c= -0.5 = LCD shows 1 and two frames behind CRTs faster score, CRT shows fastest time split with 2 frames prior
1= -1 = Clearly VH236H 1 frame behind CRT
w= -1 = LCD shows blurred 2 frames behind AND equal with CRT (LCD 094/125, CRT 125)
x= -1 = LCD shows both 1 and 2 frames behind CRT, CRT shows both 0 and 1 frame behind CRT)
b= -1.5 = LCD solid number, 1 and 2 frames behind CRT mixed number
2= -2 = Clearly 2 frames behind CRT
3 to 9 = continues on same pattern from 0 to 3
i= ignored from averages = unclear time shown/unclear double-number
_*= an inbetween or "ish" image, number skewed to represent (usually, both numbers overlapped, one MUCH brighter)
__________________________

Hitachi V700 (CRT) [DVI out to dvi->dsub adaptor->dsub in] /
Versus
Asus VH236H / [DVI out->DVI in] / GAME MODE / Overdrive=100 / not 1:1, image streched to fill screen /
1280x720 60hz (720P)- Nvidia Clone Mode Nv 9600GT (dual DVI out)

(result || aproximated lag value || running total of results || result number)
Code: 
0	 0	0	1
1	-1	-1	2
n	+.5	-.5	3
0	0	-.5	4
0	0	-.5	5
1	-1	-1.5	6
x	-1	-2.5	7	
y	0	-2.5	8
0	0	-2.5	9
1	-1	-3.5	10
0	0	-3.5	11
+	+1	-2.5	12
0	0	-2.5	13
h	-.5	-3	14
0	0	-3	15
w	-1	-4	16
1	-1	-5	17
z	0	-5	18
b	-1.5	-6.5	19
0	0	-6.5	20
0	0	-6.5	21
0	0	-6.5	22
0	0	-6.5	23
0	0	-6.5	24
h	-.5	-7	25
g	-.25	-7.25	26
0	0		27
0	0		28
0	0		29
0	0		30
y	0		31
0	0		32
w	-1	-8.25	33
n	+.5	-7.75	34
0	0		35
r	+.5	-7.25	36
z	0		37
0	0		38
j	-.5	-7.75	39
h	-.5	-8.25	40
j	-.5	-8.75	41
z	0		42
1	-1	-9.75	43
h	-.5	-10.25	44
h	-.5	-10.75	45
0	0		46
0	0		47
0	0		48
0	0		49
j	-.5	-11.25	50
1	-1	-12.25	51

-12.25/51 instances = -0.24 = average 0.24 frames behind CRT
0.24*16.67ms = 4ms average behind CRT

ASSUMING (as in, I'm not saying this is the case) Signal to both monitors averages out to to be synchronous and 1 frame=16.67ms, then VH236H (in DVI input in game mode with max overdrive) vs CRT in 1280x720 60hz (720p) in my tests showed an average of 4ms 'input lag'. Not too shabby, especially as this isn't its native resolution. :D
______________

Hitachi V700 (CRT) [DVI out to dvi->dsub adaptor->dsub in] MONITOR DIDN'T SUPPORT 1080p, it ran in 1280x1024 with a scrolling desktop that was 1080p total resolution, I have NO IDEA how much this "throws" the results off or if it has no effect /
Versus
Asus VH236H / [DVI out->DVI in] / GAME MODE / Overdrive=100 /

1920x1080 60hz (1080p)- Nvidia Clone Mode Nv 9600GT (dual DVI out)

Code: 
0		0	1
1	-1	-1	2
0			3
0			4
1	-1	-2	5
0			6
0			7
1	-1	-3	8
h	-.5	-3.5	9
0			10
0			11
j	-.5	-4	12
1	-1	-5	13
1	-1	-6	14
0			15
0			16
0			17
0			18
0			19
0			20
j	-.5	-6.5	21
g	-.25	-6.75	22
1	-1	-7.75	23
w	-1	-8.75	24
w	-1	-9.75	25
n	+.5	-9.25	26
j	-.5	-9.75	27
0			28
h*	-.75	-10.5	29
b	-1.5	-12	30
0			31
h	-.5	-12.5	32
1	-1	-13.5	33
1	-1	-14.5	34
y	0		35
0			36
z	0		37
n	+.5	-14	38
a	0		39
0			40
n*	+.75	-13.25	41	
j	-.5	-13.75	42
1	-1	-14.75	43
h*	-.75	-15.5	44
0			45
y	0		46
h	-.5	-16	47
0			48
g	.25	-16.25	49
0			50
0			51
0			52
0			53
w	-1	-17.25	54
0			55
0			56
0			57
0			58
g	-.25	-17.75	59
1	-1	-18.75	60
1	-1	-19.75	61
r	+.5	-19.25	62
0			63
w*	-1.5	-20.75	64
0			65
1	-1	-21.75	66
0			67
+	+1	-20.75	68
c	-.5	-21.25	69
0			70
+	+1	-20.25	71
0			72
1	-1	-21.25  73
1	-1	-22.25	74
h	-.5	-22.75	75
1	-1	-23.75	76
j	-.5	-24.25	77
n	+.5	-23.75	78
0			79
i	n/a	n/a	n/a

-23.75/79 instances =-0.30 average/instance = 0.30 frames behind CRT
0.30*16.67ms = 5ms average behind CRT

ASSUMING (as in, I'm not saying this is the case) Signal to both monitors averages out to to be synchronous and 1 frame=16.67ms, then VH236H (in DVI input in game mode with max overdrive) vs CRT with 1920x1080 desktop running in 1280x1024 60hz (720p) in my tests showed an average of 5ms 'input lag'. :D


Now, the result aren't of course totally accurate. I might have glossed over a detail. I think sharpening was set to 37 or something. Don't know if that matters. I might have missed something else. I wasn't able to eliminate all variables, or do an extremely large result set. The native resolution should show less lag as there's no re-sample, so something seems off. :confused:

Nonetheless, from results I've seen from other monitors, I'm impressed with the results so far, unless perhaps until someone might point out a huge flaw. (?)

I gave up waiting for an extremely low lag HDTV, after reading about the inherent slow response in grey-grey without the monitor knowing what frames is coming next to know how much to overdrive each pixel... as the monitor can't predict the future, this means a buffer of a frame or two, and this means lag and/or ghosting. As I know of no cheap yet decent TN HDTV screens, I went with this.

I hope it gives similar results through HDMI, so that it will be good for gaming on my PS3 as well as my PC. So far it makes Bionic Commando Re-armed and the MegaMan 9 demo much easier to play than the lag I was getting in game mode on a large DLP HDTV.
 
To minimize the effects of asynchronous display outputs (the points of time an image is transferred to each monitor is different or the actual used frequency for each monitor is different) a highly specialized software called SMTT or a very complex and expensive test environment has to be used.

The stopwatch program doesnt tell you everything since its not being rendered.

http://www.prad.de/new/monitore/testsoftware/smtt.html
 
I posted this "mini review" in the U2410 thread, someone had mentioned how strange that another guy had moved from IPS to a TN panel. I did the same and don't regret it at all.
I use a 2005FPW and just bought the Asus VW266H. I prefer the image quality of the Asus to my 2005, and the VH266H is one of the best LCDs on the market for gaming (2ms response + lowest of the low input lag (1.65ms). The 24 and 25.5" are identical. It doesn't get much better than an average of 3.65ms total response time.

Blacks are black, whites are white. It simply looks amazing for a TN, far superior to any I've seen before (I was an IPS devotee). Probably the only LCD I've gamed on that feels exactly like a CRT.
For ~$280, if your primary use of your PC is for gaming, I'd recommend it. I pipe an HDMI cable to my plasma for movies, no LCD can match that in quality. The VW266H saves you $250 (or more if you get the rebate they're offering) that can go towards a new 5870.

For a gamer, a 5870 and one of these new low lag Asus models is probably the way to go. For everyone else that thinks they need more accurate color (even tho I prefer the color on my TN than my IPS), for photoshop or video the U2410 is the way to go. Or just do what I do, and run the HDMI to a Samsung plasma. :)
 
Housecat,
So glad to hear that. My beloved Sony Trinitron g410 crt is starting to go and im having to buy a new mon.. Been eying that asus mighty hard. One thing that is stopping me though it has no display port. :( so would have to figure what would be good with it for eyefinity..
 
housecat said:
I posted this "mini review" in the U2410 thread, someone had mentioned how strange that another guy had moved from IPS to a TN panel. I did the same and don't regret it at all.
I use a 2005FPW and just bought the Asus VW266H. I prefer the image quality of the Asus to my 2005, and the VH266H is one of the best LCDs on the market for gaming (2ms response + lowest of the low input lag (1.65ms). The 24 and 25.5" are identical. It doesn't get much better than an average of 3.65ms total response time.

Blacks are black, whites are white. It simply looks amazing for a TN, far superior to any I've seen before (I was an IPS devotee). Probably the only LCD I've gamed on that feels exactly like a CRT.
For ~$280, if your primary use of your PC is for gaming, I'd recommend it. I pipe an HDMI cable to my plasma for movies, no LCD can match that in quality. The VW266H saves you $250 (or more if you get the rebate they're offering) that can go towards a new 5870.

For a gamer, a 5870 and one of these new low lag Asus models is probably the way to go. For everyone else that thinks they need more accurate color (even tho I prefer the color on my TN than my IPS), for photoshop or video the U2410 is the way to go. Or just do what I do, and run the HDMI to a Samsung plasma. :)
Click to expand...

You said it brother...my setup exactly..5870 (everyone's choice) + VW266H (PC Mag's Editor Choice).

I talked to X-Rite today about ICC calibrations, and high end monitors in general, and it's clear that TN is still for gaming. Heck, windows itself doesn't even use ICC profiles any more. I have to admit, the high end monitor/color matching market is complex.

.
 
Went ahead and ordered it.. going from a 19inch (viewable 18) to this 25.5 is going to be huge.. I originally had a p810 viewsonic till it blew.
 
dekruyter said:
You said it brother...my setup exactly..5870 (everyone's choice) + VW266H (PC Mag's Editor Choice).

I talked to X-Rite today about ICC calibrations, and high end monitors in general, and it's clear that TN is still for gaming. Heck, windows itself doesn't even use ICC profiles any more. I have to admit, the high end monitor/color matching market is complex.

.
Click to expand...

Yup, if you need color accuracy I say spend the bills.. don't mess around with these problem-laden U2410s from Dell.. if you want 1892 Bordeaux wine then don't have a Bud Light budget. :p No one wants to pay $1,500 though for a top quality panel so they just thrash the IPS panels with quality control issues.

Zohar78 said:
Went ahead and ordered it.. going from a 19inch (viewable 18) to this 25.5 is going to be huge.. I originally had a p810 viewsonic till it blew.
Click to expand...

I don't think you'll regret it. I completely understand your DP concern. It's the only thing that bothers me about this screen. Realistically though, I'll never use triple output Eyefinity. I've never been much of a multimonitor fan. Though I am trying duals now, and I don't use it much.. if I ever go with eyefinity it'll be when Asus adds DP to these screens because they're perfect for it. Keep the one you have, run DVI to it, and get 2 Asus DP screens once they release them.
I thought hard about getting the U2410, even sending this back to get it, but when I think about it.. it's only for the displayport. I believe this is a better choice for gamers. I currently run all 3 outputs, but since 1 of those needs to be DP I just use different profiles to switch. This way, the audio is automatically routed back and forth to and from the TV. If you run triple output to your tv all the time, you have to do this manually.

I find the 25.5" not too big and not too small. It's just right. In the longterm, adding 2 more LCDs for an insane Eyefinity resolution doesn't sound like a good time to me in trying to keep up with enough CPU/GPU speed to feed them.

Skakruk said:
What about viewing angles on the VH266H? my H-IPS is bad enough with white glow in the corners, even at normal viewing distances, and IPS is supposed to have the best viewing angles...
Click to expand...

I think the viewing angle is fine. I can almost look at it completely from the side and don't notice any real changes.
 
For a gamer, a 5870 and one of these new low lag Asus models is probably the way to go. For everyone else that thinks they need more accurate color (even tho I prefer the color on my TN than my IPS), for photoshop or video the U2410 is the way to go. Or just do what I do, and run the HDMI to a Samsung plasma.
Click to expand...

I think you got it right. People forget about that opportunity cost. If you don't need color accuracy I just don't understand why you would pay double for an IPS. You could get yourself some sweet speakers or a new graphics card instead and actually game better with a cheaper monitor. Its a win/win. And IMHO my ASUS 266H is pretty sweet. I don't notice any color shift - and I really like the slightly bigger size (though I push my monitor back a bit more then most - as its on a large table). What got me though is right away I noticed the pixel speed. Action in video games is just clearer and sharper then IPS or unaccelerated TN monitors.. Don't believe the hype about 5ms or 2ms they put on your monitor. It varies alot from monitor to monitor especially if the don't use RTC. I see now why x-bit labs goes on about this..

Pete
 
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What about vertical viewing angles on the VW266H in dark games? My current 22" Samsung TN has trouble in dark games -- the upper part of the screen dims out. Helps if you look at the monitor from above but then you get other distortion problems.
 
Zohar78 said:
Housecat,
One thing that is stopping me though it has no display port. :( so would have to figure what would be good with it for eyefinity..
Click to expand...

I've been thinking about this more and more. I have to be honest, I think if someone wants Eyefinity they'd be better to buy a very large projector.
No issues with any games, you get immersion, and it's a lot more impressive without borders. Less CPU and GPU power needed as well. And it's multifunctional, can use a Wii, watch movies on it a little better ect. All the money necessary for a more immersive experience can give you a more functional, immersive experience with a 20 foot projector in your basement. A quick search shows a 1080 Viewsonic projector being $1,200. I know a guy who bought 3 U2410s ($600 a pop) for Eyefinity. He wants to buy 3 more. That's $1,800 vs $1,200, but you do have to replace bulbs which aren't cheap.

That's just what I'd do if I were the type looking for a more immersive experience, it's a lot more versatile way to go. Just my 2cents. I do see the WoW community possibly being interested though, if I were into that game like some are, I might do it (I refuse to dedicate the time necessary for MMORPGs). Battlefield 2, L4D and the such, I'll take the projector. Anything as big as a movie screen in 1080HD is going to be amazing though, including WoW.
That said, I'm glad ATI has a new technology for uber high end guys to play with. It should be said if someone makes their living with their PC and can put 3+ displays to good use in productivity, then I think Eyefinity is a great win/win for those people. Most of us would be lying to ourselves saying 3 screens would help us at our home PCs. I have to use 8 LCDs at my job to do my work (I work in a company's world IT operations control center), but we just use 1 PC per two LCDs to get it done. ATI has needed a little excitement like this. I don't want to derail this thread but I felt it was related since we're talking gaming LCDs, 5870s and Eyefinity. Might ease your mind about the VW266H and no DP. :)

Here's a link to that PC Mag article http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2353715,00.asp
 
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Housecat, I think you are missing the point of Eyefinity by suggesting a very large projector... unless you know of a projector that can do 5700x1200. Those side screens actually show you more of the game. In the [H] video review, they show how having the side screens makes it easier to say... judge speed in a racing game, something I could see the value of easily. Not to mention, gaming on a projector??!? That can really suck as far as contrast and brightness goes. And all of those games they were showing were running at full resolution w/ bells & whistles (except Crysis) on just one 5890... hardly a resource guzzler.
 
I understand. I'm just stating my personal preferences. For my $1,200.. I'll take a projector over eyefinity. A friend of mine has a projector in his basement, gaming on it is pretty amazing IMO.
 
vick1000 said:
The HP LP2475w has been great with games for me, I wouldn't trade it for anything in the same price class. The Dell U2410 is supposed to be around $200 more than the HP, but it may be better once all the reviews are in.
Click to expand...

+1

love it.
 
joeshmoe said:
I never heard of that one either. I think the G2412HD or G2420HD are their current flagships until LED takes over.

what was so good about the G2400HWD?
Click to expand...

You never heard the legend of the Benq G2400HWD?!?!? Its supposed to be an IPS monitor with a negative input lag and 0ms GTG pixel response. It was made with 'future predict' technology to actually display an image before its actually rendered on the computer. This caused a paradox in time and *poof* it ceased to exist. :p
 
Yeah, there's really no choice about it besides what size you want.
Pick one of the new model Asus screens, and enjoy the best gaming screen on the market.

I have an IPS next to my TN Asus. I've used IPS since I first bought an LCD. The TNs have come a long ways. It's nearly impossible to be disappointed with the Asus. Only the pickiest, strangest nerds could find a way. I haven't been as pleased with a piece of hardware since my 5870. :)
 
housecat said:
Yeah, there's really no choice about it besides what size you want.
Pick one of the new model Asus screens, and enjoy the best gaming screen on the market.

I have an IPS next to my TN Asus. I've used IPS since I first bought an LCD. The TNs have come a long ways. It's nearly impossible to be disappointed with the Asus. Only the pickiest, strangest nerds could find a way. I haven't been as pleased with a piece of hardware since my 5870. :)
Click to expand...


House which Asus model did you get ? the 1920x1200res or 1920x1080res and 24" or 25.5" ?
 
housecat said:
1920x1200 25.5 vw266h
Click to expand...


ok cool thank you :) So are you planning on running three in Eyefinity ? And if you don't mind me asking, how much did you pay for the Asus ? Would the viewing angles on this display be good enough for triple screen gaming ?
 
Zorachus said:
ok cool thank you :) So are you planning on running three in Eyefinity ? And if you don't mind me asking, how much did you pay for the Asus ? Would the viewing angles on this display be good enough for triple screen gaming ?
Click to expand...

Viewing angles aren't important since the whole idea is that you angle the side displays and you are viewing each and every monitor on its central axis.
 
My son is building his first rig soon and is looking for a nice display, I'm still using my 21" Hitachi CRT (1856x1392) and waiting for OLED, SED or FED tech to come out, so I don't keep up with LCD tech as much. The Asus panels seem pretty good, I also saw this panel - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824001317&Tpk=2343BWX or $199.99 at - http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0303355

Thinking the higher resolution would be better, just not sure. He's probably going the (overclocked) Core i7 / HD5870 route, so pushing that resolution should be fine correct?

If going with Asus, whats better and why, going 1920x1200 or 1920x1080?

The new 120Hz Asus display coming out soon, what will that add for gaming vs 60Hz panels.

Thanks, maybe I should have started a new thread?
 
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undertheradar said:
Maybe I should have named this thread "What is the current best fast action gaming 24" LCD monitor?" I suppose, if you are into SimCity, input lag doesnt mean much.
Click to expand...

While I prefer SimCity 2000, I haven't played it in years.

Have you played any of these 'fast action' games on the HP2475w? TFTCentral only measures 25ms of lag, and prad.de says it is satisfactory for the 'hard-core gamer', good for an occasional gamer. 25ms will maybe give you an extra frame of lag than the best TN.

I'm not saying it's the fastest monitor, but I am saying it's beautiful, and the lag doesn't bother me, or most people out there. Besides, you list "HP L2475" in the OP, and we were just giving it our support.

For the record, I mainly play TF2, L4D, and Fallout 3 since I have gotten the monitor. I don't snipe a lot, but when I do, monitor lag doesn't seem to hurt me.
 
... so far as you can tell. Consider me picky, but Im noticing enough between LCD and CRT that I switch to the CRT for some things like 'sniping'...
 
Sabrewulf... said:
My son is building his first rig soon and is looking for a nice display, I'm still using my 21" Hitachi (1856x1392) and waiting for OLED, SED or FED tech to come out, so I don't keep up with LCD tech as much.
Click to expand...

It's unfortunate as I was also hoping for OLED technology to come but it seems it's going to take several years.
However OLED would be the best thing since CRT. All the color reproduction of a CRT, input lag and angles, with the slickness and thinness of a LCD and power consumption. It's also supposed to cost less to manufacture than LCD's once streamlined.
I guess I would be buying 1 more LCD until the hopefully arrival of OLED's in monitors.
 
Messerschmitt said:
It's unfortunate as I was also hoping for OLED technology to come but it seems it's going to take several years.
However OLED would be the best thing since CRT. All the color reproduction of a CRT, input lag and angles, with the slickness and thinness of a LCD and power consumption. It's also supposed to cost less to manufacture than LCD's once streamlined.
I guess I would be buying 1 more LCD until the hopefully arrival of OLED's in monitors.
Click to expand...
Patiently awaiting OLED monitors as well. After using a Cowon S9 for most of this year, watching a movie on my LCD in the dark and seeing the aspect ratio bars basically makes my eyes bleed.
 
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My Zune HD has a OLED screen and the only better display I've seen at handling blacks is a Pioneer Kuro (now discontinued) and even watching low def content on it is a total treat. I'm ready to drop a few k easy for a 32+ OLED screen.
 
I figured I would bump this instead of starting a new thread.

I am looking to make the jump to LCD from my 21" CRT and looking to see if there were any newer monitors I should be looking at. I figure it will be a Christmas present to myself.

This will only be used for PC games, no consoles, such as Torchlight with some COD4 and COD:W@W thrown in. I don't regularly watch any movies or videos on the PC but I do so occasionally. I will be using it though as my everyday monitor also so definitely don't want something where it will be difficult reading small text since my eyes suck anyway.
 
OLED is currently 5-10x the price per inch of monitor. It'll be 5 years till it falls to just 2x the price. So unless you are price agnostic, I'd leave OLED to the elite crowd for a while yet. You could likely buy, wear out and trash any monitor purchase now before OLED hits the mainstream.
 
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