X-plosion is out woohoo!

[Mazgazine1]

I figure in a worst case scenerio I'll just use two cards.
Audigy 2 for games, and X-plosion for everything else.

My card juust got shipped on friday (boo!!) so it wont be here until the middle of the week or something.

Hey Bigjohns97 - How does it sound for games? Is it balanced? Are you being nailed by lower FPS? How are the drivers? How do DVD's sound?

hopefully I'll be able to answer these questions first hand.. SOOON!

 

[Vertigo Acid]

I figure in a worst case scenerio I'll just use two cards.
Audigy 2 for games, and X-plosion for everything else.

Why is that a worst-case scenario?
Sounds great to me!

 

[stelleg151]

The pros?

1) Ease of connections
2) Use of output stage of your external receiver (DACs, opamps, etc)
3) Easy bass mamagement

The cons?

1) Compressed audio. DD Live uses 640kbps, and DTS 1550kbps total for all 6 channels. DTS is considered the superior solution since it offers more bits for encoding, and thus less artifacting. Just remember, it's still compressed audio.

2) Game surround support. Limited, if any, hardware accelleration support (NF2 Soundstorm), limited to EAX 2.0 support, and OpenAL support is usually not available. (Again, Soundstorm had this feature but other implementations don't) Sound engine driven by either Sensaura or QSound. YMMV for game quality.

Music:

Stereo music isn't automatically upmixed to 5.1 by DD Live / DTS encoding. This is usually done by the drivers before encoding, and can be disabled if desired. Thus you can still use DD Live / DTS and have only 2.0 output. It'd still be compressed tho.

Using the external output stage tho can often reap greater audio rewards, despite these limitations.

This is why I use the Elite Pro. I get all my multichannel gaming in uncompressed PCM output, as well as music, and get output that is on par or better than that of the receiver's. Plus I have all the game support of the X-Fi. I get it all with no compromises, except the one in the wallet.

Sounds good, but Ive heard that DVDs sound significantly better when slipped straight past the Audigy through SPDIF to the reciever. I'm thinking that I will get the cheapest X-fi and also connect the motherboard SPDIF all to my reciever, and just switch the input mode on the reciever to SPDIF for DVD (and maybe music, depending on whether I prefer the Audigy's analog or the recievers DAC), and leave it on Analog for games.

Anyone see anything wrong with this solution?

 

[Xeero]

I figure in a worst case scenerio I'll just use two cards.
Audigy 2 for games, and X-plosion for everything else.:

if you are going to use your audigy2 for games, then what are you going to use the xplosion for? music? movies?

so i assume you like your stereo music upmixed to 5.1? many 3rd party plugins can upmix your music for you, you wont need the xplosion to do that.

and why would you use it for movies if the dvd track is alredy pre-encoded to dd or dts? i guess you could use the xplosion to upmix divx movies or tv shows that are in stereo, then again you are once again upmixing a stereo source, 3rd party plugins can do that

seems like if you decide to use the audigy2 and the xplosion in the same system, it kinda defies the whole point of getting the xplosion

 

[Stoly]

I love these debates.

The cons?

Music:

Stereo music isn't automatically upmixed to 5.1 by DD Live / DTS encoding. This is usually done by the drivers before encoding, and can be disabled if desired. Thus you can still use DD Live / DTS and have only 2.0 output. It'd still be compressed tho.

If you don't want music upmixed to 5.1 you can bypass encoding and use the digital out to send PCM audio with no compression.

I didn't know about the lack of OpenAL support on the x-plosion, that is a big issue.

BTW are you Chastity from 3dsoundsurge forums?

 

[Stoly]

I figure in a worst case scenerio I'll just use two cards.
Audigy 2 for games, and X-plosion for everything else.

My card juust got shipped on friday (boo!!) so it wont be here until the middle of the week or something.

Hey Bigjohns97 - How does it sound for games? Is it balanced? Are you being nailed by lower FPS? How are the drivers? How do DVD's sound?

hopefully I'll be able to answer these questions first hand.. SOOON!

If you use the audigy for games, then you don't need the x-plosion.

 

[Mazgazine1]

If you use the audigy for games, then you don't need the x-plosion.

huh? games aren't the only thing you can do on a computer.

The Xplosion will provide superior output for movies and such because of the near-to-zero interference based on a digital connection.

The only reason I'd use the audigy 2 instead for games is because it has better performance and compatibility.

Using the 3.5mm to analog connections for my 5.1 system currently results in massive interference from everything. I can't turn my reciever up half-way without getting a massive HUM coming out. Games are really loud by default so I can have the volume pretty low, but with 5.1 sound (A3d and movies and such) I have to crank it up to get everything to a good level. That level is in the range of that stupid HUM I get...

Thats why I'm happy about the X-plosion, I wont get embarrased while watching moves and listening to music. Even if I got an X-fi, I'd still have to use the same analog connections that would get affect by outside noise.

Like one person said before - 'That is the perfect solution' - even though it is expensive type of solution you get the best of both worlds.

 

[Stoly]

huh? games aren't the only thing you can do on a computer.

Please read my post again, I said "If you use the audigy for games, then you don't need the x-plosion." I didn't say computers only play games.

The advantage of using the x-plosion only comes when using an external DD/DTS decoder.

DVDs are already encoded into Dolby Digital, you don't need the x-plosion for that.

Divx with stereo can be encoded into DD/DTS and you can use the x-plosion for that, but it will be no better than any 5.1 upmix than your reciever can already do.

Games that support DS3d or EAX2.0 will benefit from the x-plosion, as it will allow to have discrete 5.1 Dolby digital or DTS positional audio.

I already have my PC connected to a DolbyDigital/DTS reciever and I can listen to DVDs and AC3 encoded material via the SPDIF on the Soundblasterlive in its full 5.1 glory.

For games/music unfortunately sound is still stereo, thats where the x-plosion comes in.

 

[Xeero]

huh? games aren't the only thing you can do on a computer.

The Xplosion will provide superior output for movies and such because of the near-to-zero interference based on a digital connection.
.

so where did you read that the audigy2 doesn't have a digital output connection? and if your digital output doesn't work on ur audigy2 then you might wanna get that fixed.

 

[Chastity]

If you don't want music upmixed to 5.1 you can bypass encoding and use the digital out to send PCM audio with no compression.

I didn't know about the lack of OpenAL support on the x-plosion, that is a big issue.

BTW are you Chastity from 3dsoundsurge forums?

Yep, that be me. See my sig below.

Mazgazine1: Your hum is probably caused by the fact your analog cables are draped on or nearby your power supplies / wallwarts. Just move them away and your hum should disappear.

If not, get some ferrite clip-ons (1 for each end) and that should remove the hum as well.

 

[stelleg151]

Yeah it seems to me that this is a solution only for those who very occasionally play games and want a HTPC soundcard. I dont think for those of us who play games all the time spending the same amount as an x-fi on a card that will reduce fps by up to 20% and have less compatibility makes any sense.

That being said, I really dont like how creative has monopolized the sound card industry. Hopefully someone will arise and will become a competative market:aka a market fair to the consumers. Imagine how much better off we would be if there was competition like there is in the video card business. We would have the quality of both these cards combined and then some. Monoply == slow development.

 

[Xeero]

Yeah it seems to me that this is a solution only for those who very occasionally play games and want a HTPC soundcard. I dont think for those of us who play games all the time spending the same amount as an x-fi on a card that will reduce fps by up to 20% and have less compatibility makes any sense.

That being said, I really dont like how creative has monopolized the sound card industry. Hopefully someone will arise and will become a competative market:aka a market fair to the consumers. Imagine how much better off we would be if there was competition like there is in the video card business. We would have the quality of both these cards combined and then some. Monoply == slow development.

yeah very true, competition is always better. i'd gladly support any company that can offer a soundcard that is competitive to creative's offerings. its just that, there is none. DD and DTS encoding is gimmicky and I don't need it for games, i would just prefer to run analog out into my receiver or use the dts-610 encoder by creative. i don't like the frame rate hit and lack of EAX options

 

[rodsfree]

Mazgazine1: Your hum is probably caused by the fact your analog cables are draped on or nearby your power supplies / wallwarts. Just move them away and your hum should disappear.

If not, get some ferrite clip-ons (1 for each end) and that should remove the hum as well.

And the next thing to do would be to invest in a set of GOOD shielded cables.

If you are using the crap that came with your sound card, or the el cheapo Radio Shack cables then toss 'em.

Try these instead - http://www.monstercable.com/productPage.asp?pin=432

I can't believe how many times my friends have complained about their sound problems, when the problem was their cables and speaker wires.

You'd think that after spending big bucks on their computer and audio equipment they'd use something besides walmart spaeker wire to connect them.

 

[H-street]

I can't believe how many times my friends have complained about their sound problems, when the problem was their cables and speaker wires.

IMHO
it is one of the benefits of the digital connection, the digital cables are much less prone (at least in my experience) to having interference, with the Audigy2 .. with the same setup same everything, if i use cheap analogue cables i get interference, if i use a cheap optical cable, or even a cheap radio shack coming out of the digital 1/8jack running to the same receiver it sounds much better (albeit 2.1 prologic)..

 

[Donnie27]

2) Spending $100 on a box to convert the digital source thats been converted to analog back to digital is retarded. (Anyone from Creative on the forums? *coughcoughdonniecoughcough*) Why not just have the function built into the card at a low level? Would that not make THE most sense?

It's not any more retared than folks trying to say Compressed Higher Latency DS3D sounds good, sheesh! Because the conversion done on a Fully EAX 3 or above result/sound sounds better than a Processor processed Direct Direct Sound 3D result. It's sent to slow Sound Card with a CMedia from the 33MB a sec PCI bus vs a Finished EAX3+ done on a Low latency DTS 610.

2. Unlike the card that relies on CPU Processors, now we'd get an even more Expensive X-Fi DDLC 610. DTS is expensive, X-fi processor is expensive so that'd mean most of us would have to pay what Chastity did, no way. Though I think Creative should sell the expensive beast as an option.

Lets face it, convenience isnt enough for me to spend any more money to have the ability to jack into our surround system with one cable - I need full game support too, and in hardware! Until that happens, the audigy platinum eX is staying in my computer, I'll hook up the optical when I want to watch upconverted movies, and I'll plug in the three analog cables when I want to play games.

Again, ANYONE from creative listening?

My comment was to the other guy who was talking about buying another card for DDL/DTS Optical support. Would you spend $141.99 and try to run both cards or just add DTS-610 for $99? Test a DTS 610 before you become an Expert on one? If I had something better than a Cheap Pioneer who knows?

 

[Chastity]

True, but you won't have to pay what I did. Zipzoomfly has the Elite Pro for $370 shipped, but also include an $80 rebate, for a final price of $290. If you were interested in getting a Fatality, then get this. Much better option.

 

[mastercheeze]

If I may revive a semi-dying thread to rebut...

It's not any more retared than folks trying to say Compressed Higher Latency DS3D sounds good, sheesh! Because the conversion done on a Fully EAX 3 or above result/sound sounds better than a Processor processed Direct Direct Sound 3D result. It's sent to slow Sound Card with a CMedia from the 33MB a sec PCI bus vs a Finished EAX3+ done on a Low latency DTS 610.

2. Unlike the card that relies on CPU Processors, now we'd get an even more Expensive X-Fi DDLC 610. DTS is expensive, X-fi processor is expensive so that'd mean most of us would have to pay what Chastity did, no way. Though I think Creative should sell the expensive beast as an option.

Although I agree that the dts 610 is the best option for digital connectivity, I want to add that it's just easier for me to spend $15 (at worst) in cables than $100 plus $10 for an optical cable - and even then I'd still have to buy the analog cables to hook up to the damn extra box! The 610 is nice, but I can't for the life of me imagine who would go out of their way to spend the money for it. If I didn't have a reciever with analog 5.1 ins, instead of spending $100 on another box I'd just put that money into a better reciever.

My comment was to the other guy who was talking about buying another card for DDL/DTS Optical support. Would you spend $141.99 and try to run both cards or just add DTS-610 for $99? Test a DTS 610 before you become an Expert on one? If I had something better than a Cheap Pioneer who knows?

Well I think you'd be better off spending the money on a better reciever than a 610. (FYI, you can get a decent reciever on ebay for cheap - I picked up a sony STR-DE945 for less than $130 shipped not too long ago). I apologize if I came across in a rude way, thats not what I intended at all - just venting a little frustration at the sound card market. It seems theres a million products but not the right ones - for me, anyway.

 

[Seyba]

I'm reviving a dead thread too.

I've read the debates here and I've learned a lot but I feel more confused than I did at first.

I have an Audigy 2 right now and a Yamaha RXV-530 receiver. I connect the two devices with three analog cables. I play games mostly and I get virtually no bass on my subwoofer despite any combination of settings I try.

What are my best options for gaming sound here? Do I keep my audigy 2, get that DTS-610 device, which if I read correctly, will encode DTS with 5.1 discreete channels? Or do I get the Auzentech Xplosion? Or is there a third option that I missed in this thread?

Thanks

 

[Donnie27]

I'm reviving a dead thread too.

I've read the debates here and I've learned a lot but I feel more confused than I did at first.

I have an Audigy 2 right now and a Yamaha RXV-530 receiver. I connect the two devices with three analog cables. I play games mostly and I get virtually no bass on my subwoofer despite any combination of settings I try.

What are my best options for gaming sound here? Do I keep my audigy 2, get that DTS-610 device, which if I read correctly, will encode DTS with 5.1 discreete channels? Or do I get the Auzentech Xplosion? Or is there a third option that I missed in this thread?

Thanks

X-Fi adds 12+ and 15db volume to the Sub. Bassmanagement is meant to protect small satilite speakers. Even on the X-Fi, if you use the Large Speaker setting you loose a lot of bass or decrease in Sub's volume.

The 610 is for those folks using Receivers without the Analog 5.1 inputs and must use either Optical or Coax Digital inouts. Many folks just say it's louder so it is better. The two 610s I've heard sound nice and had very little delay. Also some receivers do better Analog-In 5.1 than others, my Pioneer Kills my Technics but is easily out done by the H&K I tried.

Last but not least, Newer Games on the X-Fi can't be touched by anything else out there IMHO! I don't mean just Battlefield 2.

 

[Donnie27]

If I may revive a semi-dying thread to rebut...

Although I agree that the dts 610 is the best option for digital connectivity, I want to add that it's just easier for me to spend $15 (at worst) in cables than $100 plus $10 for an optical cable - and even then I'd still have to buy the analog cables to hook up to the damn extra box! The 610 is nice, but I can't for the life of me imagine who would go out of their way to spend the money for it. If I didn't have a reciever with analog 5.1 ins, instead of spending $100 on another box I'd just put that money into a better reciever.

Well I think you'd be better off spending the money on a better reciever than a 610. (FYI, you can get a decent reciever on ebay for cheap - I picked up a sony STR-DE945 for less than $130 shipped not too long ago). I apologize if I came across in a rude way, thats not what I intended at all - just venting a little frustration at the sound card market. It seems theres a million products but not the right ones - for me, anyway.

First of all, no biggie!

I might get a 610 for my Den and the HTPC that has an Audigy2 ZS. The Technics has Analog in but it sucks. Its Digital-in is sweet though so that's what I'll use.

Again Direct Sound 3D is NOTHING compared to OpenAL and EAX HD. That's like comparing 2ch to 5.1. This is not an opinion but FACT. My solution is, if DDL is fully supported OpenAL and EAX-HD then I'd agree with you.

 

[Moofasa~]

Again Direct Sound 3D is NOTHING compared to OpenAL and EAX HD

Eh? That doesn't make much sense. How is DS3D worse than OpenAL? The only reason Creative is pushing OpenAL so much because DS3D in Vista cannot be hardware accelerated, even by a DSP. EAX HD is just a layer, it can be applied to (and has been) to both DS3D (FEAR) and OpenAL (BF2 and Quake 4). I agree that OpenAL with EAX HD is better than plain DS3D, but I don't see how OpenAL in general is "better" than DS3D in general. They are both comparable sound engines.

 

[Xeero]

good holy mother of old dead threads!!

 

[Seyba]

X-Fi adds 12+ and 15db volume to the Sub. Bassmanagement is meant to protect small satilite speakers. Even on the X-Fi, if you use the Large Speaker setting you loose a lot of bass or decrease in Sub's volume.

The 610 is for those folks using Receivers without the Analog 5.1 inputs and must use either Optical or Coax Digital inouts. Many folks just say it's louder so it is better. The two 610s I've heard sound nice and had very little delay. Also some receivers do better Analog-In 5.1 than others, my Pioneer Kills my Technics but is easily out done by the H&K I tried.

Last but not least, Newer Games on the X-Fi can't be touched by anything else out there IMHO! I don't mean just Battlefield 2.

Ok, so if I understand you correctly, all the DTS-610 does it take the three analog cables and changes them into one digital cable? It doesn't encode it into DTS so I can have those five discreet channels in digital 5.1?

I have a difficult time talking about audio because I don't understand it. All I can tell you is with games I can not get true DTS 5.1 if I use an optical cable directly from my audigy to my receiver. I use three analog cables, which outputs no bass at all to my bass. I know if I use the Auzentech Xplosion, it will let me use the optical cable with games so I can get the true 5.1. I seek this and don't know which path to choose.

 

[Moofasa~]

Ok, so if I understand you correctly, all the DTS-610 does it take the three analog cables and changes them into one digital cable? It doesn't encode it into DTS so I can have those five discreet channels in digital 5.1?

I have a difficult time talking about audio because I don't understand it. All I can tell you is with games I can not get true DTS 5.1 if I use an optical cable directly from my audigy to my receiver. I use three analog cables, which outputs no bass at all to my bass. I know if I use the Auzentech Xplosion, it will let me use the optical cable with games so I can get the true 5.1. I seek this and don't know which path to choose.

The DTS-610 does basically the same thing as the Xplosion. For simplicity sake, it essentially takes the discrete 5.1 analog signal and then encodes in on the fly to discrete 5.1 DTS. I recently got it for my other box downstairs because it's using an older receiver which does not have analog input. It works perfect and I do not notice a delay (and yes there is plenty of bass). Hope that clears some stuff up.

 

[Terra]

Last but not least, Newer Games on the X-Fi can't be touched by anything else out there IMHO! I don't mean just Battlefield 2.

I just upgraded from a Creative Audigy 2/5300 5.1 speakers to a X-Fi Elite pro/T7900 7.1 setup.
All I can say is WOW...
And the "X-Fi Ultra sound" in BF2 is just sweet
But also in older games like Rome -Toltal war I hear a major difference
EAX(-HD) has become too important for me to loose....

Terra - It sounds so good it's distracting at times *L*

 

[Seyba]

The DTS-610 does basically the same thing as the Xplosion. For simplicity sake, it essentially takes the discrete 5.1 analog signal and then encodes in on the fly to discrete 5.1 DTS. I recently got it for my other box downstairs because it's using an older receiver which does not have analog input. It works perfect and I do not notice a delay (and yes there is plenty of bass). Hope that clears some stuff up.

Moofasa,

Thank you for your reply. I have heard so many different stories. Some say the X-Plosion is terrible in games but great for music/movie, so gamers should stick with creative products and everyone else should use auzentech's. Others say it is fine and creative's products are worse in all respects. I've also heard people say the DTS-610 has horrible lag and is a horrible product, but you say there is no lag at all.

I think, unless someone else has an opinion, that my best option is going for the DTS-610.

 

[Rawr]

I purchased a X-Plosion 7.1 and it doesnt work for me with my motherboard.
I tested it fine in a intel 845 based chipset, but two different DFI Lanparty NForce 4 SLI motherboards were incompatible. Both the SLI-D and the SLI-DR failed to work with the card.

 

[Donnie27]

Moofasa,

Thank you for your reply. I have heard so many different stories. Some say the X-Plosion is terrible in games but great for music/movie, so gamers should stick with creative products and everyone else should use auzentech's. Others say it is fine and creative's products are worse in all respects. I've also heard people say the DTS-610 has horrible lag and is a horrible product, but you say there is no lag at all.

I think, unless someone else has an opinion, that my best option is going for the DTS-610.

I'm sorry I didn't reply sooner, been stuck in the Conroe thread. The only real difference is that DTS-610 takes already SC hardware processed OpenAL and or EAXHD 3, 4 or 5, then does its *thing. X-Plosion does the SAME trick but uses Processor Processed Direct Sound 3D and etc..

Lag on the DTS-610 is only 4ns, needless to say, you can't notice it. My only complaint is Creative should have priced it at $69 instead of $99. Or at least given Creative owners a price break.

Maybe there's hope? I just saw a MSI motherboard with built-in AudigySE with Wolfson 24bit/196MHz DACs.(MaximumPC)

 

[Donnie27]

I just upgraded from a Creative Audigy 2/5300 5.1 speakers to a X-Fi Elite pro/T7900 7.1 setup.
All I can say is WOW...
And the "X-Fi Ultra sound" in BF2 is just sweet
But also in older games like Rome -Toltal war I hear a major difference
EAX(-HD) has become too important for me to loose....

Terra - It sounds so good it's distracting at times *L*

QFT!

I have buddies who complain about too many sounds overloading their senses.

 

[Xeero]

Some say the X-Plosion is terrible in games but great for music/movie,.

great for music? oh really? if you are serious about your music, get a real soundcard. dont use the explosion of the x-fi. either that or use your onboard sound to run a digital output into a receiver. for movies, you can just use onboard sound and run a digital output to your receiver

there is honestly no need for the explosion

 

[BoogerBomb]

Poor OP. He was just posting about him being excited about getting a card that can do DDL and DTS, then all the Creative fans came in and just totally trashed him and his thread simply because it wasnt a Creative product that he is getting.

I dont venture into the Computer Audio forum too often but from the threads I have read its a rather hostile environment for us non-Creative users.

I myself got the X-plosion becuase I didnt want to have yet another external box to add to the clutter thats already there. I paid 140 and have a single cable going straight to the receiver.

Creative needs to get their heads out of their asses and just do the same thing the DTS does on their cards and they would be a better solution, they know this so they refuse to allow anyone else to use anything above EAX2.0.

 

[Auric]

Even if your receiver does have 5.1 analog inputs, that doesn't mean it can perform bass management on them. Those inputs were designed for DVD-Audio and SACD, both of which have dedicated LFE channels. Games don't, and most sound cards have poor base management (read: Creative). Your options are to buy an amplifier for your subwoofer, buy an analog bass management device like the Outlaw ICBM or a more expensive receiver capable of bass management on 5.1 analog inputs, or encode your signal into Dolby Digital or DTS. I chose the DTS-610 because it gives me the flexibility to upgrade my sound card later and get the benefit of EAX HD.

 

[mentok1982]

I just got this card and I have a little problem. When I use my microphone I have to talk
very loud unless the mic is right in front of my lips. And the only way to get the mic right
in front of lips is to wear my headset around my neck, which means I can't hear through
the headphones.

I have read the FAQ on Auzentech's site and I have also read the manual as well. Last
night I realized my front audio connection was still connected to my motherboard so I
disconected that hoping it was the cause of the problem but it was not.

Microphone boost is on everywhere (HL2 DM, Windows, Auzentech's audio control panel).
It seems like the mic on my headset is not a sensitive as it was when I was using my
onboard audio.

I am using the latest 32 bit driver for the soundcard btw.

One thing I noticed is that in the manual it shows a pop up window in the sound card settings that I never get.

The box that has the selections for Microphone and Stereo Mix, I have never seen. Is
my mic analog? Maybe the current driver has a glitch and that pop up is not appearing like it
should.

When I am using my headset the soundcard is set to analog (headphone) and when I am
doing other stuff I set it to Digital and the sound is carried to my Yamaha receiver with an
optical audio cable.

Any ideas?

 

[Moofasa~]

The "low volume on the mic" bug has been an issue since the release of the X-Mystique (I remember I had to use Ventrilo's software amp just so my friends could barely hear me). I am surprised they haven't fixed it yet.

 

[mentok1982]

I might consider buying a mic preamp. Can you recommend one? I don't require something
as robust as Ventrilo.