Way too Hot: Good Bye Next Gen

UtopiA said:
I think his point is that even with the aftermarket cooler on the 9600, it still keeps his *room* cooler than the shitty stock heatsink on the 4870. Putting that cooler on the 4870 would make his *room* even hotter.
:D
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Sorry, in this house we obey the laws of thermodynamics!
 
Get this through yer head man. Heatsinks don't magically get rid of heat. They simply dissipate it more efficiently. Testing a card with your fingers is an absolute ass backwards method of determining how much heat the card is generating. Period. Just admit you were clueless. That's the first step to recovery.
 
SilverSliver said:
Get this through yer head man. Heatsinks don't magically get rid of heat. They simply dissipate it more efficiently. Testing a card with your fingers is an absolute ass backwards method of determining how much heat the card is generating. Period. Just admit you were clueless. That's the first step to recovery.
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Talk about recovery, are you on crack or something? Testing a card with your fingers doesn't tell you anything about how much heat the card is generating? LOL, I CAN'T touch the 4870 after load it's so hot.

My whole point is the CARD is way hotter than a 9600gt, any idiot could tell you that. Not only that, the 4870 blows all this heat into my room and I can feel it heating up to the point of being uncomfortable AC and all===

What part of this revelation is so hard for you to get through your thick skull?
 
oozish said:
Talk about recovery, are you on crack or something? Testing a card with your fingers doesn't tell you anything about how much heat the card is generating? LOL, I CAN'T touch the 4870 after load it's so hot.

My whole point is the CARD is way hotter than a 9600gt, any idiot could tell you that. Not only that, the 4870 blows all this heat into my room and I can feel it heating up to the point of being uncomfortable AC and all===

What part of this revelation is so hard for you to get through your thick skull?
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i can understand where you are coming from but i would rather have the heat getting pumped out of the case than have it left in the case
 
oozish said:
What part of this revelation is so hard for you to get through your thick skull?
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I think the difficult part to understand is that the TDP of the 9600GT is ~100 watts, and the TDP of the 4870 is ~160 watts (according to a quick google, unconfirmed though).

You're suggesting that a 60 watt increase in heat output has managed to overpower your AC...
 
Aim an oscillating fan from the corner of the opposite room towards you, set it on high. Problem (sorta) solved. If that doesn't work, add a second one.
 
SilverSliver said:
Get this through yer head man. Heatsinks don't magically get rid of heat. They simply dissipate it more efficiently. Testing a card with your fingers is an absolute ass backwards method of determining how much heat the card is generating. Period. Just admit you were clueless. That's the first step to recovery.
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Hes right. Its quite a bit of wattage to dissipate which is why I will never get the really high end cards. I don't want that power bill or room temperature. Like I said, you need to get the air moving.

Get the air moving in the case to take the heat out of the case, then get the air moving in the room to get the heat out of the room.
 
I think there's a misconception here about temperature, heat, and wattage ratings.

Just because the temperature of a card is lower doesn't mean it's producing less heat... it can be just dissipating that heat more effectively.

And wattage ratings doesn't equal heat produced. A die shrink uses less energy to run the cpu/gpu and more energy is lost as heat (higher clock rates and narrower paths for electrons within the chip so more collisions and more heat generated). So going from an older 100w card to a newer 160w card can mean 80-100w of additional heat.

I certainly noticed the difference when I went from a quad core @ 3600 folding and then added an 8800GT OC folding... it became too hot to sit at my computer.
 
oozish...I'm trying to judge your intelligence here...just your application of knowledge you think you have.

Does item X that measures 100 degrees make more "heat" than item Y that measures 90 degrees?







The fact is die temperature means absolutely shit when it comes to how much heat is coming out of your case once steady state occurs. The only number that matters is how much power is being sucked from the wall. A GPU or CPU that measures 0 degrees and consumes 1000 watts of power will put a cubic butt load more heat into the room that a GPU/CPU that measures 100 degrees and consumes 100 watts.
 
oozish said:
Talk about recovery, are you on crack or something? Testing a card with your fingers doesn't tell you anything about how much heat the card is generating? LOL, I CAN'T touch the 4870 after load it's so hot.

My whole point is the CARD is way hotter than a 9600gt, any idiot could tell you that. Not only that, the 4870 blows all this heat into my room and I can feel it heating up to the point of being uncomfortable AC and all===

What part of this revelation is so hard for you to get through your thick skull?
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Well with more speed comes more heat there isn't much else you can do about that, but if the heat doesn't get expelled from the case it stays in and makes everything else warmer which is where you start to get failures.
 
A few things this thread has taught me...

1. The public schools are failing.

2. Most people really don't understand TDP, wattage, heat dissipation or how it relates to computer hardware. I would liken this to "what weighs more, a pound of lead or a pound of feathers?" for some of you.

3. This "go green" rubbish is spreading more ignorance than I once thought.

4. A video card is not going to change your electric bill by enough to notice.

5. Testing thermal properties with human flesh is generally not accurate and usually uncomfortable at the least. Oh yea, and a hot heatsink is a heatsink that is doing it's job very well.

Who would pass up premium visuals over some minor heat dissipation? And as someone said, if 60 watts can overwhelm your air conditioning you have other issues far greater than a video card to deal with, insulation is your friend.
 
all I'm saying is they have some work to do and I'm not willing to use a baking hot card that will be obsolete in 6 months when nvidia comes out with something cooler/faster that has better cooling to boot
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. I can't believe how many people missed this. I think this is what he was trying to say all along.
 
Logan321 said:
And wattage ratings doesn't equal heat produced. A die shrink uses less energy to run the cpu/gpu and more energy is lost as heat (higher clock rates and narrower paths for electrons within the chip so more collisions and more heat generated). So going from an older 100w card to a newer 160w card can mean 80-100w of additional heat.
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No, what you are saying is violating the basic laws of thermodynamics.

By definition, the wattage of a card is exactly equal to the energy output. Almost all of this energy is thermal, or ends up as thermal energy before leaving your room. The only energy which isn't dissipated thermally in your room is higher frequency radiation which manages to escape through your walls and windows (ie. light, but your video card doesn't exactly generate a lot of this.)
 
To me, the best way to cool computer components is to put a very large papst fan that pumps out >180 cfm in my computer case, so I feel confident that all my inner components are about or below room temperature.
 
SilverSliver said:
Get this through yer head man. Heatsinks don't magically get rid of heat. They simply dissipate it more efficiently. Testing a card with your fingers is an absolute ass backwards method of determining how much heat the card is generating. Period. Just admit you were clueless. That's the first step to recovery.
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lol, you are absolultly right, even if 9600gt was running cooler it is still dumping heat, and in my case if I turn the fan on hd 4870 to 30% the card never goes in to 70's it stays in the 63-65c area, and for someone to just say good bye next gen because they run hot is unjustice being done to these great cards that give us most performance we have ever gotten for our money.
 
The original post was obviously trolling It is obvious from the onset as no one would post something so ridiculous as to say it heats their room. I am a Texan (D/FW), and have been for the better part of 20 years so I call B.S. Remember folks first rule of forums: Don't feed the trolls....
 
jimmyb said:
I think the difficult part to understand is that the TDP of the 9600GT is ~100 watts, and the TDP of the 4870 is ~160 watts (according to a quick google, unconfirmed though).

You're suggesting that a 60 watt increase in heat output has managed to overpower your AC...
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Yes, this is what I'm experiencing. for sure. Like night & day.
 
operaman said:
The original post was obviously trolling It is obvious from the onset as no one would post something so ridiculous as to say it heats their room. I am a Texan (D/FW), and have been for the better part of 20 years so I call B.S. Remember folks first rule of forums: Don't feed the trolls....
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Dude I'm not a troll...I've posted in various threads every since I started thinking about getting a 260/4870 and my experience once I got it was so shocking in that it made my room perceptibly more hot that I thought I'd share it as a way to round out my purchase adventure.

Do you feel the difference between 75 & 90F?

If you think I'm trolling WTF am I trolling for? You're protecting ATI now? I can see the fanbois rushing to call me a troll against ATI.

sheesh....I'm about done with this. Time to lock.
 
My old 8800GTX idled @ 61C not 80C. This GTX 260 does 47C.

I can't imagine having anything in my case constantly pumping out 80C.

It doesn't matter if the card is designed to handle it or not, some folks simply don't want to deal with those kind of temps.

ATi should add a manual fan control option to their overdrive panel in the CCC. They could squash the entire issue by giving people optional control of the fan.
 
xbob04 said:
A few things this thread has taught me...

1. The public schools are failing.

2. Most people really don't understand TDP, wattage, heat dissipation or how it relates to computer hardware. I would liken this to "what weighs more, a pound of lead or a pound of feathers?" for some of you.

3. This "go green" rubbish is spreading more ignorance than I once thought.

4. A video card is not going to change your electric bill by enough to notice.

5. Testing thermal properties with human flesh is generally not accurate and usually uncomfortable at the least. Oh yea, and a hot heatsink is a heatsink that is doing it's job very well.

Who would pass up premium visuals over some minor heat dissipation? And as someone said, if 60 watts can overwhelm your air conditioning you have other issues far greater than a video card to deal with, insulation is your friend.
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QFT!
 
Blacklash said:
My old 8800GTX idled @ 61C not 80C. This GTX 260 does 47C.

I can't imagine having anything in my case constantly pumping out 80C.

It doesn't matter if the card is designed to handle it or not, some folks simply don't want to deal with those kind of temps.

ATi should add a manual fan control option to their overdrive panel in the CCC. They could squash the entire issue by giving people optional control of the fan.
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I'm not going to address the first part of your post as you are another person who confuses how well a heatsink works with what amount of energy is actually being dispersed by it. The Radeons aren't "pumping out" 80c, and going from a dual 9600GT set up to this one has changed my temps by.... 1c. Actually that isn't true, my northbridge runs about 15c cooler as the 750i northbridge gets a little toasty even witha fan on it.

One of the Catalyst Crew guys who post over at Rage3d has stated PowerPlay will be properly implemented in the next driver, so the idle temp issues should disappear.
 
Blacklash said:
My old 8800GTX idled @ 61C not 80C. This GTX 260 does 47C.

I can't imagine having anything in my case constantly pumping out 80C.

It doesn't matter if the card is designed to handle it or not, some folks simply don't want to deal with those kind of temps.

ATi should add a manual fan control option to their overdrive panel in the CCC. They could squash the entire issue by giving people optional control of the fan.
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The same amount of heat is being created, regardless. Hell, the cooler the GPU is (given the same TDP, load/idle, etc...), the more heat has been "pumped out" (which is why its not as hot, because that heat has been transfered to the air).
 
kllrnohj said:
The same amount of heat is being created, regardless. Hell, the cooler the GPU is (given the same TDP, load/idle, etc...), the more heat has been "pumped out" (which is why its not as hot, because that heat has been transfered to the air).
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Jeez, is this so hard to understand? Energy doesn't magically disappear with "better" cooling. 100 watts is 100 watts no matter what :p
 
oozish said:
Talk about recovery, are you on crack or something? Testing a card with your fingers doesn't tell you anything about how much heat the card is generating? LOL, I CAN'T touch the 4870 after load it's so hot.

My whole point is the CARD is way hotter than a 9600gt, any idiot could tell you that. Not only that, the 4870 blows all this heat into my room and I can feel it heating up to the point of being uncomfortable AC and all===

What part of this revelation is so hard for you to get through your thick skull?
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I'm convinced you're trolling. I'm sorry, unless you live in a box (which would indicate your masters degree is quite worthless) "the video card heats a room argument" is idiotic and nerdism of the highest degree. I've used Nvidia for the last 8 years, so no ATi fanboy here.

I do see that this conversation you are have going is enjoyable for you, so keep arguing. I personally think the 4870 is a good card for the money. When or if I buy one, i'll keep the stock cooler on.

My 8800gts 640mb has had its stock cooler on for the last 1 1/2 with OC. It overheats and crashes in a poorly ventilated case, but not in my Antec 900. Should I have returned it? No.

But its a free country. Enjoy the Raptor, they look badass.
 
xbob04 said:
A few things this thread has taught me...

1. The public schools are failing.

2. Most people really don't understand TDP, wattage, heat dissipation or how it relates to computer hardware. I would liken this to "what weighs more, a pound of lead or a pound of feathers?" for some of you.

3. This "go green" rubbish is spreading more ignorance than I once thought.

4. A video card is not going to change your electric bill by enough to notice.

5. Testing thermal properties with human flesh is generally not accurate and usually uncomfortable at the least. Oh yea, and a hot heatsink is a heatsink that is doing it's job very well.

Who would pass up premium visuals over some minor heat dissipation? And as someone said, if 60 watts can overwhelm your air conditioning you have other issues far greater than a video card to deal with, insulation is your friend.
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I'm with stupid :p

OP this is one of the reasons I got the 4870 over the 4850

A. Cooler exhausts heat out the back of the case......

I don't see how your card can overwhelm your A/C....although I have a 8000 BTU airconditioner in my room and it can freeze you out in a matter of minutes on it's highest settings even on the hottest of days......

anyhoo I run a mATX based system and it has no problems with the 4870 being in there....
 
magoo said:
You are correct, not [H]ard enough. If you can't stand the heat.......:eek:

If you think the 4870 is hot, try SLI'd 8800 GTXs.;)
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Try 3-Way SLI 8800GTX's overclocked to Ultra speeds, then dual 9800GX2's, then SLI'ed Geforce GTX 280 cards, 4 Raptors, overclocked quad core etc.......

Then for good measure throw a CRT HDTV, and three other computers into the room that all generally operate at the same time. This is the hell I live in every day. :eek: (Speaking only of the heat.)
 
This is really hard to understand for me. You telling me that you returned the second best video card that money can buy just because it pushed 60wats more heat into your AIR CONDITIONED ROOM ????? My god...thought Ide seen it all before this, but this really tops it all LOL
 
Spyhawk said:
This is really hard to understand for me. You telling me that you returned the second best video card that money can buy just because it pushed 60wats more heat into your AIR CONDITIONED ROOM ????? My god...thought Ide seen it all before this, but this really tops it all LOL
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Many people have their AC set to 75F or higher. They don't realize that a powerful computer can heat a small or medium sized room (assuming a normal sized house) to about 80F or so easily. You have two choices at that point. You can either set the AC to a lower temperature (which in turn cools down the enire house, or half of it if you have more than one AC unit) or you can get a seperate AC like a window unit for that room in order to deal with the extra heat.
 
This was a funny thread. I also concur with the poster that said public school has obviously failed the op. Don't they teach the 3 laws of thermodynamics anymore?
 
Dan_D said:
Many people have their AC set to 75F or higher. They don't realize that a powerful computer can heat a small or medium sized room (assuming a normal sized house) to about 80F or so easily. You have two choices at that point. You can either set the AC to a lower temperature (which in turn cools down the entire house, or half of it if you have more than one AC unit) or you can get a separate AC like a window unit for that room in order to deal with the extra heat.
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This is part of the truth. A lot of people like to use their PC's in a small room. Even a 100W light bulb can heat a typical room a few degrees if there isn't enough air being moved. In the case of oozish, the solution might be to open the damn door and get a fan. Remember, your AC system cools the area near the thermostat to a specific temperature....not your house. Your house needs to be adjusted as to somewhat "follow" what room where the thermostat does.
 
Trepidati0n said:
This is part of the truth. A lot of people like to use their PC's in a small room. Even a 100W light bulb can heat a typical room a few degrees if there isn't enough air being moved. In the case of oozish, the solution might be to open the damn door and get a fan. Remember, your AC system cools the area near the thermostat to a specific temperature....not your house. Your house needs to be adjusted as to somewhat "follow" what room where the thermostat does.
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I have to run a ceiling fan and leave the door open to my computer room or it quickly becomes unbearable. I'm moving at the end of the week and hopefully the new house and the room I've chosen for my equipment will be better in this regard.
 
A video card is not going to change your electric bill by enough to notice.
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Not sure about that in my case.. I have only low-energy lightbulbs in every room of my apartment. They are 10W or 11W. Then there's the fridge and freezer, and a few things on standby like the tv, dvd player etc.. Heating and hot water are included in the rent, no need for AC in rainy, cold Sweden.. This can't add up to much, and indeed my electricity bills are really low. Then there's the computer, of course. It probably consumes about twice as much power as all the light bulbs in my apartment combined, and I leave it on almost 24/7. I'm sure, if I stopped using the computer, my electricity bills would go down noticeably... not significantly, but enough to notice.

ATi should add a manual fan control option to their overdrive panel in the CCC. They could squash the entire issue by giving people optional control of the fan.
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If ATI doesn't do it, some other tweaking utility soon will. I have decided against flashing my 4850 due to the risks of killing it - but when the software becomes available, I plan on lowering its idle clocks to something like 150 MHz, and make the fan go a little faster (while still slowing down @idle).
 
JimmiG said:
Not sure about that in my case.. I have only low-energy lightbulbs in every room of my apartment. They are 10W or 11W. Then there's the fridge and freezer, and a few things on standby like the tv, dvd player etc.. Heating and hot water are included in the rent, no need for AC in rainy, cold Sweden.. This can't add up to much, and indeed my electricity bills are really low. Then there's the computer, of course. It probably consumes about twice as much power as all the light bulbs in my apartment combined, and I leave it on almost 24/7. I'm sure, if I stopped using the computer, my electricity bills would go down noticeably... not significantly, but enough to notice.


If ATI doesn't do it, some other tweaking utility soon will. I have decided against flashing my 4850 due to the risks of killing it - but when the software becomes available, I plan on lowering its idle clocks to something like 150 MHz, and make the fan go a little faster (while still slowing down @idle).
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Those light bulbs didn't change my electric bill hardly at all. I think it went down about $3 or something like that a month.
 
open ur windows/doors, buy some Holmes fans from wal-mart, get air conditoners or whatever.. if u can't afford to play, don't play.
 
Hey, I'm reading this post and it's funny some of the comments.

Yes, I know this room is freaking hot, I've had AC technicians even increase the size of the duct going to it. It's my office, I agree that's my first problem; but I still can't believe all the insults about my intelligence because the fact the room heated up noticeably after I got this card and so I returned it.

simple.

My plan is to wait until the refresh and some new products hit, watch prices fall, and eventually if I might have to I'll deal with a hotter card. But there better be a decent game out there to use the card on since I don't really need an upgrade anyway and I've actually got this room pretty well balanced.

And to you who wished me well on the Velociraptor, thanks. That is one smokin' HD! I partitioned about 220gb for programs and 80 for VISTA, got all my pics, music etc. on the second partition and it's really nice.
 
oozish said:
Hey, I'm reading this post and it's funny some of the comments.

Yes, I know this room is freaking hot, I've had AC technicians even increase the size of the duct going to it. It's my office, I agree that's my first problem; but I still can't believe all the insults about my intelligence because the fact the room heated up noticeably after I got this card and so I returned it.
.
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Thats because your perception of your room. violates the fundemental laws of thermodynamics.

your perception of reality is always trumped by fundemental laws of the universe. Fundemental laws ( in this case the 3 laws of thermodynamics) always beat perception.
 
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