Way too Hot: Good Bye Next Gen

[Blackstone]

If you have a room that is small, or does not have sufficient A/C, a high-end gaming PC can easily heat up the room. I generally keep the air conditioning vent in my computer room closed because it blows disproportionally strong in that one room, and I keep the computer off, and I usually find myself flipping the vent open after playing in there for even a short period of time. This is a really small room though. In a decent size room it really makes no difference. My card is an overclocked 8800GTX, core temp sometimes creeps close to 80 degrees, for what that is worth. The guy doesn't need freakin' Geordi LaForge from Star Trek to tell him whether his room is hot.

The toms hardware test shows the 4870's core temp under load at like 87 degrees. The 9800GTX was more like 69 degrees. That is pretty hot, subjectively speaking. The 4850 set records with respect to heat. I don't care what the physics gurus say, in a small room it will make a difference, just like a hairdryer can heat up a small bathroom. In the summer at least. Comfortable and uncomfortable can be a matter of just one or two degrees sometimes.

I probably would never return a card over the heat issue though. Noise is more of a factor for me. But considering that OP cited a number of reasons to not like the card (lackluster Crysis performance), I suspect neither would OP.

 

[kllrnohj]

If you have a room that is small, or does not have sufficient A/C, a high-end gaming PC can easily heat up the room.

Yes, it can, and I don't think anyone here will argue that. What is being argued is that the 4870 only puts out 60w over the 9600GT the op was running, which won't make a noticeable difference (at least not to the degree the OP is claiming)

The toms hardware test shows the 4870's core temp under load at like 87 degrees. The 9800GTX was more like 69 degrees. That is pretty hot, subjectively speaking. The 4850 set records with respect to heat. I don't care what the physics gurus say, in a small room it will make a difference, just like a hairdryer can heat up a small bathroom. In the summer at least. Comfortable and uncomfortable can be a matter of just one or two degrees sometimes.

If both cards put out 150w (hypothetically here, not saying that they do both put out 150w), then they will heat up the room the EXACT SAME AMOUNT. It does not matter AT ALL what the temperature of the GPU is, 150w is 150w. Period. End of story. No ifs, ands, or buts.

 

[UtopiA]

The cards are using different heatsinks, fan speeds, and even case airflow will effect GPU temp.
Which is why the temp of the GPU tells you nothing about how much heat is actually coming off the card.

 

[Blackstone]

I see what you are saying about the GPU temps.

 

[Tudz]

If you can feel the difference between a 4870 and 9600GT I'd be concerned for your health as your room isn't well ventilated enough. You should get a fan or something to blow fresh air into your room, or open a window. Its not healthy!

 

[lol_wut]

The 4850 set records with respect to heat.

No it doesn't. Not even close...

I don't care what the physics gurus say, in a small room it will make a difference, just like a hairdryer can heat up a small bathroom.

First of all, one does not need to be a physics guru to understand this stuff. It's pretty much high school material. Second of all, you should care because your misconceptions are leading you to judge video cards erroneously.

 

[Blackstone]

I'm not judging anything, I don't have this particular card. I don't use heat or power consumption in making purchasing decisions myself unless my power supply becomes an issue. But it is a little disconcerting to think that to upgrade from an 8800GTX OC I would have to move to something even hotter and noiser. That means more heat being introduced into the case, or the water loop circuit, and ultimately the room.

That is fine by me, but it usually translates into more fans and more cooling, or higher speed cooling, which means more noise pollution. The stock cooler can materially affect the gaming experience if you are using speakers or non isolating open dynamic headphones, which allow ambient noise through. Some of us are already using very noisy CPU coolers like the Tuniq Tower, ect. It is an issue.

Being uncomfortable in your room, or concerned about something bellowing heat into a small room in the middle of the summer can be a factor in overall satisfaction too. I am just saying, these are not irrational concerns.

All of the above has to be weighed against the performance gain, the price, ect. I suspect that if this card knocked Crysis out of the park, original poster would have been willing to put up with a bit more heat and noise. But obviously coming from a 9600GT, original poster didn't think it was worth it. That is useful information and something to think about for people who don't need an upgrade right now but might be considering one, in my opinion.

 

[lol_wut]

But it is a little disconcerting to think that to upgrade from an 8800GTX OC I would have to move to something even hotter and noiser. That means more heat being introduced into the case, or the water loop circuit, and ultimately the room.

What are you upgrading it to, though? 8800GTX to 4850 means less heat and possibly less noise. 8800GTX to 4870 is about equal amount of heat and noise. 8800GTX to GTX260 means less heat.

In fact, most upgrade options will not output more heat than your 8800GTX. Even a 9800GTX can be considered an upgrade and that gives off less heat. The 8800GTX is one big power hog, and if you're concerned about heat then you shouldn't be running that card in the first place.

 

[Trimlock]

I bought this card AGAIN after returning it...for you who said I didn't buy it in the first place, LOL...you are a moron with serious conspiracy issues. Watch out for UFO's at night too. This card gets to 103C running ATI Tool, lol. Also, just playing TF2 I've seen it get up to 99C, floats around in the high 90's.

The stock cooling on this is not acceptable. I have good airflow in my case; my 9600gt (yes it had aftermarket S1 but still, it was 42C; so it's not impossible to get good temps in there).

So If I keep this 4870; I have to get aftermarket cooling option. Why didn't ATI say something like that in the fine print, "great performance but the price is actually 40 dollars more and an hour of your time to install.

Thanks to those of you who are electrical engineers and actually tried to teach something in this post about heat dissipation etc., I have read every post and I appreciate that. I know I have a lot to learn about thermodynamics from reading your posts.

I'm going to buy a 260 today and see what sorts of temps we're looking at idle and load in comparison and weigh the 2 against each other. Another weird thing regarding drivers or something is I can't run Crysis at 1920x1200 at all, it makes the resolution go screwy, like a thin column down my screen, and you miss the whole right hand side of where the window should be. I can only run Crysis at 1600x1050; what do the hot fix drivers not support 1900x1200 yet?

And you guys who want to yell in caps and swear like I need someone to tell me to open the door, LOL...Godmachine, feel tough now? That's a pathetic post, if you're trying to be funny I didn't get it, you're just coming across like a jerk.

"Oh, I see, I should open my door! YES! That fixed it!" haha. Or, yes, just water cool everything...another bright idea. LOL

No, I don't actually believe you and you are making it easier for me to continue to not believe you, you are claiming dramatic results that 99% of us are not seeing and yet not posting pic's, I have no idea if you are wanting to claim god like status for purchasing a different product then what most of the people own in this sub forum but you are pretty adament about comfirming your point that your ONE card over heats like a mofo (which they don't).

1) I'm not a moron
2) No idea how you got conspiracy out of this but GG
3) you still haven't convinced anyone you have an actual problem,especially since your own thread turned into a physic's class, infact that discussion (even though I understand less then 5% of it) is more entertaining then your factless posts.

Running my fan at 40% nets with me 38C idle, and high 70's on loads so far playing crysis/multiple loads of EQ, I have no idea how you are getting temps that high, everyone knows we are waiting for a driver fix for the fan speeds and if you would be a bit more helpfull then to say "yup last gens mid range card with an aftermarket cooler is better and that means this newgen high end part sucks" we might actually help you.

 

[BigCactus]

Well if you want to talk about heat, the gtx280 is the king of heat at load. To keep the 4870 temps down just adjust the fan to 35% by editing the xml file in that ati folder that contains all your profiles. Then activate that profile in CCC and you'll see idle temps at about 45c and load temps go to about 60c when gaming. I'm sure someone already stated this.

 

[Willsonman]

If you have a room that is small, or does not have sufficient A/C, a high-end gaming PC can easily heat up the room. I generally keep the air conditioning vent in my computer room closed because it blows disproportionally strong in that one room, and I keep the computer off, and I usually find myself flipping the vent open after playing in there for even a short period of time. This is a really small room though. In a decent size room it really makes no difference. My card is an overclocked 8800GTX, core temp sometimes creeps close to 80 degrees, for what that is worth. The guy doesn't need freakin' Geordi LaForge from Star Trek to tell him whether his room is hot.

The toms hardware test shows the 4870's core temp under load at like 87 degrees. The 9800GTX was more like 69 degrees. That is pretty hot, subjectively speaking. The 4850 set records with respect to heat. I don't care what the physics gurus say, in a small room it will make a difference, just like a hairdryer can heat up a small bathroom. In the summer at least. Comfortable and uncomfortable can be a matter of just one or two degrees sometimes.

I probably would never return a card over the heat issue though. Noise is more of a factor for me. But considering that OP cited a number of reasons to not like the card (lackluster Crysis performance), I suspect neither would OP.

no offense to you but that makes no sense. an 1800W hairdryer cannot compare to a 300W video card. Anyone who has ever taken a chemistry class should know that there is a constant rate of energy transfer (heat) in any situation involving an energy source. how quickly it dissipates is the variable... not the transfer.

 

[oozish]

Well if you want to talk about heat, the gtx280 is the king of heat at load. To keep the 4870 temps down just adjust the fan to 35% by editing the xml file in that ati folder that contains all your profiles. Then activate that profile in CCC and you'll see idle temps at about 45c and load temps go to about 60c when gaming. I'm sure someone already stated this.

I returned that hot POS 4870, I don't care how nice a 'value' it is. I got a 280 and it's not the King of heat. I max temps with fur mark or rtdribl (?) to 82-83; if I play a 'normal' game like TF2 I don't break 78C;

this EVGA card idles at 68 and that's without downclocking (since downclocking seems broken to me).

I still LOL at those who think I made this up, heh. GG! You guys with the insults bring it out in me, so nice going. Also remind me of the ATidiots reputation of old true to life today...why I stopped hanging around in ATI forum...

 

[oozish]

No, I don't actually believe you and you are making it easier for me to continue to not believe you, you are claiming dramatic results that 99% of us are not seeing and yet not posting pic's, I have no idea if you are wanting to claim god like status for purchasing a different product then what most of the people own in this sub forum but you are pretty adament about comfirming your point that your ONE card over heats like a mofo (which they don't).

1) I'm not a moron
2) No idea how you got conspiracy out of this but GG
3) you still haven't convinced anyone you have an actual problem,especially since your own thread turned into a physic's class, infact that discussion (even though I understand less then 5% of it) is more entertaining then your factless posts.

Running my fan at 40% nets with me 38C idle, and high 70's on loads so far playing crysis/multiple loads of EQ, I have no idea how you are getting temps that high, everyone knows we are waiting for a driver fix for the fan speeds and if you would be a bit more helpfull then to say "yup last gens mid range card with an aftermarket cooler is better and that means this newgen high end part sucks" we might actually help you.

hehe, glad you liked the conspiracy thing. Cheers!

 

[vengence]

no offense to you but that makes no sense. an 1800W hairdryer cannot compare to a 300W video card. Anyone who has ever taken a chemistry class should know that there is a constant rate of energy transfer (heat) in any situation involving an energy source. how quickly it dissipates is the variable... not the transfer.

..........

I'm sorry, but thats the dumbest thing I've ever seen written.

 

[Eagle156]

Reading this thread made me realize just how much our school system is failing. Have people never taken a physics class in their life?

 

[BigCactus]

I don't think you need to take a physics class to know that more watts equals more heat. This guy doesn't like the 4870, so he bought a gtx280. That's what I would of done I suppose if my experience was the same as his. But when I had the 4870, as long as I adjusted the fan to a moderate 30%, it would get low temps even at load. Regardless, he had a 4870, went with a gtx280 and found better results, good for him. Some good threads if he runs into problems with the gtx280:

Downclocking issues:
http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.asp?m=421769

Overheating issues: (there were more but they tend to delete threads that make their products look bad)
http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.asp?m=462956
http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.asp?m=458499

 

[kllrnohj]

I returned that hot POS 4870, I don't care how nice a 'value' it is. I got a 280 and it's not the King of heat. I max temps with fur mark or rtdribl (?) to 82-83; if I play a 'normal' game like TF2 I don't break 78C;

this EVGA card idles at 68 and that's without downclocking (since downclocking seems broken to me).

I still LOL at those who think I made this up, heh. GG! You guys with the insults bring it out in me, so nice going. Also remind me of the ATidiots reputation of old true to life today...why I stopped hanging around in ATI forum...

I just want to clarify something here. You claim the 4870 put out too much heat compared to your 9600GT and made your room noticeably hotter. So you returned it, and bought a GTX 280 which you claim doesn't heat the room, yet the GTX 280 puts out the SAME or MORE heat? (30w more under load according to anand: http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3341&p=22 , yet [H] shows only a 5w difference: http://hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTUyNCw4LCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==)

Next time please just save everyone the trouble, and prefix your threads with "I am a HUGE nvidia fanboi!"

 

[Tudz]

I just want to clarify something here. You claim the 4870 put out too much heat compared to your 9600GT and made your room noticeably hotter. So you returned it, and bought a GTX 280 which you claim doesn't heat the room, yet the GTX 280 puts out the SAME or MORE heat? (30w more under load according to anand: http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3341&p=22 , yet [H] shows only a 5w difference: http://hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTUyNCw4LCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==)

Next time please just save everyone the trouble, and prefix your threads with "I am a HUGE nvidia fanboi!"

Dont forget in addition to complaining it heats up his room, he also complains the card itself is too hot, when comparing it to a card that had an after market cooler, so obviously he's not adverse to buying after market coolers... just for some reason it was beyond him for the 4870.

 

[lol_wut]

I returned that hot POS 4870, I don't care how nice a 'value' it is. I got a 280 and it's not the King of heat. I max temps with fur mark or rtdribl (?) to 82-83; if I play a 'normal' game like TF2 I don't break 78C;

this EVGA card idles at 68 and that's without downclocking (since downclocking seems broken to me).

I still LOL at those who think I made this up, heh. GG! You guys with the insults bring it out in me, so nice going. Also remind me of the ATidiots reputation of old true to life today...why I stopped hanging around in ATI forum...

The lack of intelligence in this post blows my mind.

4870 puts out too much heat so you get a GTX280 instead. Surprisingly, the GTX280 doesn't heat up your room as much as a 4870 even though it puts out more heat. That makes perfect sense.

 

[gwu168]

Wow, I'm utterly speechless after reading this thread

The amount of ignorance display in this thread (especially by the OP) appalling.

I wager if a double blind test was performed, the OP wouldn't be able to tell the temperature difference generated by the g280 or 4870.

 

[MrAgmoore]

1) Upgrade the air conditioner in the room.

2) Buy an aftermarket cooler for the 4870 ( by the way I've heard more on the Internet about 280's overheating / failing / RMA'ing than 4870's ).

3) You can't compare an old card ( with an aftermarket cooler ), to a brand new one ( with barely any designs for a cooler ) - it's not at all scientific.

4) In general level Physics you are taught Galileo's hypoethesis. "All objects fall at the same rate, where air resistance is negligible":

"Astronaut replicates Galileo experiment in the moon"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOvwwO-l4ps


http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/ffall.html

The problem is that Galileo ( born in 1564 ) did not have access to electronics and computers so his hypoethesis was confirmed visually.

In Advanced Physics, you learn Newton's ( 1687 ) law of universal gravitation and the concept that while the tennis ball in outer space is indeed pulled towards the Earth, the Earth is also pulled towards the tennis ball ( due to the fact that the tennis ball has mass and generates it's own tiny gravity ):

You have to fumble around in a lab, with a torsion balance to prove this equation ( unfortunately ).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_universal_gravitation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torsion_balance#Torsion_balance

I think that this illustrated picture of Earth-Moon tides is a good example. The Moon, with it's 1/6th Earth's gravity can't even hold it's own atmosphere, yet it creates the tides:

http://home.hiwaay.net/~krcool/Astro/moon/moontides/

Einstein is degree-level Physics:

"Newton's law has since been superseded by Einstein's theory of general relativity, but it continues to be used as an excellent approximation of the effects of gravity. Relativity is only required when there is a need for extreme accuracy, or when dealing with gravitation for very massive objects."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_universal_gravitation

"It would seem that Einstein's General Relativity (a more accurate law of gravity) says that a heavier object actually does accelerate very slightly faster than does a lighter object, in a vacuum."
http://www.jimloy.com/physics/galileo.htm

Vengence was just saying, don't add extraneous, esoteric, epeen information.

My existential viewpoint is that none of this is real and when you die, you come back. So what's the point of it all?

The Holographic Universe:

http://www.amazon.com/Holographic-U...bs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1216576772&sr=1-1

 

[Tudz]

In my high school (Australia, I only did yr11 and 12 physics) we learnt the law of universal gravitation (if that's what you call it... I dont know names, I only know how to apply them ). We also did special relativity (though only in a very basic form). In University (I'm studying Aerospace Engineering) we went into more depth with gravitation. Also went into some Quantam Physics, but that went over my head (even though I managed to get a 95 out of 100 in the subject, I'm the first to admit it didn't completely make sense to me ).

There is HEAPS of bad physics in this forum... I just haven't bothered trying to correct it as I joined quite late.

 

[cannondale06]

In my high school (Australia, I only did yr11 and 12 physics) we learnt the law of universal gravitation (if that's what you call it... I dont know names, I only know how to apply them ). We also did special relativity (though only in a very basic form). In University (I'm studying Aerospace Engineering) we went into more depth with gravitation. Also went into some Quantam Physics, but that went over my head (even though I managed to get a 95 out of 100 in the subject, I'm the first to admit it didn't completely make sense to me ).

There is HEAPS of bad physics in this forum... I just haven't bothered trying to correct it as I joined quite late.

Their physics is almost as bad as your grammar.

 

[Tudz]

Their physics is almost as bad as your grammar.

Yeah, well I never did English in school Missed all my high school from illness and just came in for the final 2 years then went to university. I've never been too good with those nuns and adjictuves still better than most you see on forums.

Hence I'm more qualified to correct bad physics and leave the correcting of bad grammar to the Arts freaks.

 

[soulesschild]

This guy successfully trolled a 10 pg post....dear lord.

 

[lol_wut]

It's time to give up. He's a lost cause.

 

[AreEss]

1) Upgrade the air conditioner in the room.

2) Buy an aftermarket cooler for the 4870 ( by the way I've heard more on the Internet about 280's overheating / failing / RMA'ing than 4870's ).

3) You can't compare an old card ( with an aftermarket cooler ), to a brand new one ( with barely any designs for a cooler ) - it's not at all scientific.

4) In general level Physics you are taught Galileo's hypoethesis. "All objects fall at the same rate, where air resistance is negligible":

... wow. I was going with the advanced discussion of quantum thermodynamics for #4 myself. But then I realized the OP would still complain about the quarks migrating away from the gluons, without having any idea about what either is.

 

[Trimlock]

This guy successfully trolled a 10 pg post....dear lord.

Yea, I had to bite, I should of known better but it seems he already exited the thread, oh well he was pretty funny.

 

[Blackstone]

Someone just sent me this link and for some reason I feel compelled to share it in this thread. http://wadewilson.livejournal.com/11285.html

 

[Alai]

Easy fix: Watercool

 

[lol_wut]

Easy fix: Watercool

Thank you, good sir, for taking the time to read the thread.

 

[Alai]

Thank you, good sir, for taking the time to read the thread.

Sorry... Hard to read every post when a good chunk of the thread is offtopic from the OP post.

 

[lol_wut]

Actually all you needed is the 1st post to understand why this thread spanned 10 pages.

 

[Mr. K6]

Sorry... Hard to read every post when a good chunk of the thread is offtopic from the OP post.

Actually you should have read those posts too so you would understand how we already covered that solution and that it would not work for the OP.

 

[ZMTToxics]

Meh, his money. What ever.

 

[vengence]

Hard to read every post when a good chunk of the thread is offtopic from the OP post./QUOTE]

1) if you didn't read the posts how do you know if their offtopic?
2) if you did read the posts, you should have figured out that watercooling doesn't change the amount of heat added to the room.

 

[Alai]

Hard to read every post when a good chunk of the thread is offtopic from the OP post./QUOTE]

1) if you didn't read the posts how do you know if their offtopic?
2) if you did read the posts, you should have figured out that watercooling doesn't change the amount of heat added to the room.

1) I skimmed it...
2) I read that... but actually, it does change the amount of heat added to the room, albeit minimally. Because the water acts as a reservoir for thermal energy, it holds excess heat: heat that doesn't transfer to the room. (i.e. a cool glass of water in a room will cool the room by absorbing heat to itself)

Of course, for practical purposes, he won't feel much of a difference, but it's there. lol

 

[DeadSkull]

op should get a day++++ ban....for starting a pointless thread about how 4870 heats up his room more then a 280 and runs at higher temps.

 

[Frostex]

1) I skimmed it...
2) I read that... but actually, it does change the amount of heat added to the room, albeit minimally. Because the water acts as a reservoir for thermal energy, it holds excess heat: heat that doesn't transfer to the room. (i.e. a cool glass of water in a room will cool the room by absorbing heat to itself)

Of course, for practical purposes, he won't feel much of a difference, but it's there. lol

Huh?!

No that's wrong...The total heat generated per second is the same no matter what is cooling it, the water may act as a buffer between the heat from the card and the room, the same way a heatsink does. However overall the water is going to cool to the new ambiant temperature of the room which will be higher than the original ambiant temperature because overall thermal enegery has been added.

L2Physics

 

[Trepidati0n]

1) I skimmed it...
2) I read that... but actually, it does change the amount of heat added to the room, albeit minimally. Because the water acts as a reservoir for thermal energy, it holds excess heat: heat that doesn't transfer to the room. (i.e. a cool glass of water in a room will cool the room by absorbing heat to itself)

Wow...just wow...part infinity. You really didn't think your comment through. However, your logic fails to deal with the fact that there is a CONSTANT LARGE source of heat. Therefore the energy that glass can hold (which isn't much)...will quickly be dwarfed by the system.