OCCT - New Intel C2D Stabiltiy Testing application

Is OCCT really reliable ?

By tetedeiench, Sunday 12 November 2006 09:02 PM :: Faq

Right now, OCCT is reliable. No known bug will detect an error if there isn't. So if OCCT detects an error : something is wrong.

However, generating errors is random. There are cases where the computer is unstable and OCCT won't detect it. Usually, the longer the test, the higher the chance of detecting an error. For alot of people, 30 minutes-long tests are enough. You can jump to 2 hours or more if you want to double-check. Some people are known to test their computer for 24h !
30min is default. same rules apply though as prime
 
doesn't matter what test you do at full load, to test for stability you need to be at full load and be for a long duration
 
woah this test is indeed more stressful than orthos. It failed after only 10min 5 sec. whereas Orthos failed at 27min 6 sec. Both were on the blend.



@OP: Good find :)
 
woah this test is indeed more stressful than orthos. It failed after only 10min 5 sec. whereas Orthos failed at 27min 6 sec. Both were on the blend.



@OP: Good find :)

Like what the occt website even says, errorouts can be random, and just because it failed orthos at 27min doesn't mean it always fails there, necessarily. Also, occt may not follow the same pattern of testing, if it is a static location, so it gets hit sooner rather than later. But then, a different user might not have a failure at the same calculation and has indeed to go on for later before erroring.

Also, even with orthos, it'll say how many rounds of testing it's doing. My prior e6400, when it was on the borderline of vcore stability at 8x450=3600, I got through three passes of small fft in orthos in around 14 hours but failed on the 4th set. Errors can pop up anywhere and not always repeatably at the same spot. Then again in my case, I'm guessing that because I was borderline vcore stable (only needed one extra increase), it could very well have dipped just slightly too low when it was very intense and failed there, where the other times it was slightly higher in vcore and got stability. Too many uncertainties, and I'd be blown away if this could actually detect errors repeatedly quicker.

Hell, I'm not fighting for the monumental "24hour" stable. Honestly, I'd love to be able to end-all be all way sooner, since that'd allow me to make modifications way quicker than I do them.

And yet, 24hr isn't even end all be all. One guy just the other day posted at [H] saying how he forgot about orthos until 27hrs or something and it failed there.

edit: tisb0b, my condolences. that's a lot of vcore for e6400 at 3.2 to not be stable. damn. hopefully, since it's blend test, it was a higher value and is ram fault eh?
 
One of the things that I can't stand about "stability testing" is that all these applications people throw around are <heaven forbid> Windows applications. Does anyone else see the inherent flaw in that situation?

This isn't a rant about Windows vs <insert OS here>; it's just an observation that you're running software to test for stability on an OS that might exhibit non-stable characteristics inherently.

That's akin to testing brakes and stopping distance on a road covered with ice.

Someone that's truly serious about such testing should probably write an application that would run off a bootable CD or USB drive for testing outside of the OS, I'd say. I understand that we're using Windows apps to test for Windows stability, but it's always struck me as quite odd to do so considering that if the software that's responsible for doing the stability testing itself is flawed and fails, how do we even know it?

</random_point>
 
One of the things that I can't stand about "stability testing" is that all these applications people throw around are <heaven forbid> Windows applications. Does anyone else see the inherent flaw in that situation?

This isn't a rant about Windows vs <insert OS here>; it's just an observation that you're running software to test for stability on an OS that might exhibit non-stable characteristics inherently.

That's akin to testing brakes and stopping distance on a road covered with ice.

Someone that's truly serious about such testing should probably write an application that would run off a bootable CD or USB drive for testing outside of the OS, I'd say. I understand that we're using Windows apps to test for Windows stability, but it's always struck me as quite odd to do so considering that if the software that's responsible for doing the stability testing itself is flawed and fails, how do we even know it?

</random_point>

Hey, well if you're testing on something that itself is inherently known to be unstable, and the end result is stability, then wouldn't that be grounds to say it's rock solid? :D

I will note that I once used memtest to do some testing, and while it was later determined the ram was stable, the cpu didn't have enough vcore and or the northbridge might not have been fully up to snuff, since there were occasional errors. Sure this is a pretty lousy way to test cpu stability I'd imagine though. But I definitely see your point :) We need cputest86 and systest86 haha
 
edit: tisb0b, my condolences. that's a lot of vcore for e6400 at 3.2 to not be stable. damn. hopefully, since it's blend test, it was a higher value and is ram fault eh?

Fortunately I've now managed to push it to 3.2ghz with my ram running at 916mhz and at 3.25 the ram was only running at 812mhz. I've run OCCT on the ram for 1/2 an hour then a 2.5hour blend test. I'll be running orthos all day on the blend test :)
 
One of the things that I can't stand about "stability testing" is that all these applications people throw around are <heaven forbid> Windows applications. Does anyone else see the inherent flaw in that situation?

This isn't a rant about Windows vs <insert OS here>; it's just an observation that you're running software to test for stability on an OS that might exhibit non-stable characteristics inherently.

That's akin to testing brakes and stopping distance on a road covered with ice.

Someone that's truly serious about such testing should probably write an application that would run off a bootable CD or USB drive for testing outside of the OS, I'd say. I understand that we're using Windows apps to test for Windows stability, but it's always struck me as quite odd to do so considering that if the software that's responsible for doing the stability testing itself is flawed and fails, how do we even know it?

</random_point>


While you have a somewhat valid point it also stands to reason that if your going to use Windows as an OS that you want the pc to be stable within that OS. Testing outside the OS of choice would bring you no closer to being stable within the OS if the OS is in fact at fault.
 
crap its the luck of the draw whether this thing picks up an error sometimes it will before orthos other times not.
 
Hey guys,

I'm the guy behind OCCT - I'll try to give you a few answers !


Orthos Vs OCCT : OCCT has been reported to be more "effective" at detecting errors, overall. It does have a few more features too :)


bbz_Ghost : Stability testing, CPU-wise, can be done under any OS. Let me explain : in stability program, we address the CPU directly, through assembly code. We control almost everything. I'm developing under windows just to get the benefits of a few Windows procedures, be able to produce a nice GUI, etc. The only thing that can break my program is a problem with Windows's Task sheduler (and that's really unlikely). Even if it runs under Windows, if OCCT reports an error, it *does* mean the assembly code itself detected an error. So even under Windows, you get pretty good results :)
I find the "you want your computer to be stable under windows" remark really true too ;)
And it's much more convenient as well ;)


30min test : it's going to be revamped soon. I'll soon release 1.0.3, and i've yet to decide wether the 30min test is going to be a 1 hour test... i'm not yet 100% sure of what i'll do.


Random errors : CPU errors, when overclocked, are generated randomly. The very same instruction chain can run flawlessly, and on the next loop.... fail ! What i'm doing is just stressing the CPU, making an "environment" in which errors are likely to appear and will be detected. However, the time it occurs can vary greatly. For instance, on my own computer, if i get into a certain unstable "on the borderline" mode, 1°C less on my CPU means, usually, 5 min more in average before detecting an error... That's something that will happen with any stability cheking program out there :)



Don't forget there's a "Custom" test you can use, and you can select its duration and other things in the options.



If you have any comments, remarks, suggestions, well, anything, feel free to speak here.... i'll be happy to answer them, and perhaps implement them :)

If you're interested, here's the link to the latest beta :
http://www.ocbase.com/OpenBeta/OCCTPT1.1.0.b12.zip

Stability test has been improved, custom sensors can be programmed, interface had been revamped, some options appeared... well, lots of new stuff to play around with :) Even if it's beta, the test can be trusted now. if it reports an error, there was one with your hardware :)

Oh, and sorry about any spelling mistakes i probably did, English is not my native language ;) I've spent a year in the US, but my english is still far from perfect ;)
 
Wow!, straight from the horses mouth! Keep up the good work. As with the OC'ing enthusiasts, we are always looking for applications that test stability, and that OCCT is not OS sensitive is great.
 
I have not tried your test yet but whatever it does, you should keep it at 30 minutes. If it can find problems in the first 30 minutes no need to run it for an hour.
You don't need to be like all the other tests that people run for 4 hours or 8 hours. If yours can catch problems with an attempted overclock in 30 minutes for less it will become a very valuable tool. People can always continue on to other tests after it passes your test. The real value to your tool will be to catch problems in 30 minutes or less.

I would not increase the time to 1 hour, keep it at 30 minutes that is a good period of time.
 
Yes, 30 minutes, thats what attracted me to this tool.

30 min for testing = more time gaming. ftw
 
*downloads* heheh

Anyways have you added support for Intel TAT because atm it is the most accurate C2D temperature monitoring tool?

Unfortunatly, i don't think i ever will be able to do that.

There are several reasons behind that :
  • Tat does not have any Shared memory or alike where i can get the readings from. So support will be reliable on a version, but might be broken on a new version, at best.
  • I don't have a C2D :D Only a Single core A64. So i can't get Tat to run on my computer... Hard to code it the support :D

I may be able to, as soon as i get my hands on a C2D computer (at Work, i think i will, soon, i like 1/2 months), and i'll try to add support for it.
 
I have not tried your test yet but whatever it does, you should keep it at 30 minutes. If it can find problems in the first 30 minutes no need to run it for an hour.
You don't need to be like all the other tests that people run for 4 hours or 8 hours. If yours can catch problems with an attempted overclock in 30 minutes for less it will become a very valuable tool. People can always continue on to other tests after it passes your test. The real value to your tool will be to catch problems in 30 minutes or less.

I would not increase the time to 1 hour, keep it at 30 minutes that is a good period of time.

In fact, i have two kinds of users :

Power users : they want a one, maybe 2 hour long test, because for them, 30min is not enough. They don't consider anything below "Rock solid".

End users : They want a fast, quick test that enable them to get an idea quick. Personally, i do think that if no errors was detected in 30min of testing, then virtually no errors can happen...

It'll be probably revamped in 1.1.0. This version will add a"memory" test, test that will do much like a memtest, but under windows. Mind you, it's going to be really less powerful (as it will ignore the memory taken by other programs and the OS), but there nonetheless. I think i'll revamp the auto test and rename it "Quick test", and add a "Thorough test" (Spelling?) that will do something like : 30min of CPU&RAM mode, 30min of RAM mode, 2 passes of memory checking. The thing should last 1h30min, around that.

Oh, btw, b12 will probably be entitled 1.0.3 ( the beta versions got screwed, because i decided, mid-way, to do an intermediate release instead of waiting a looooooong time before releasing 1.1.0 )
 
OK I ran the test it is great, in the default 30 minute test PLEASE DON'T CHANGE A THING in the 30 minute Auto test.

It is excellent just the way it is. If you can keep the Auto test to 30 minutes then add all kinds of other tests. Personally I think the default test should be exactly the same in every release 30 minutes in lenght and consistent in every release. Consistency is the key here.

There will be a lot of added value of the default Auto test works exactly the same in every release and is 30 minutes always. Have at least 1 test the Auto test that it doesn't matter which version of the tool you are using. That should be your baseline, then people will gain confidence in your tool.

For example if you change it and simplify the auto test, people who used to fail an autoclock with an old version of the test will start to pass with the new version. This will create chaos. I think it is better to have a standard of measurement even if imperfect. You can add other modes of testing later.

Just my opinion.
 
In fact, i have two kinds of users :

Power users : they want a one, maybe 2 hour long test, because for them, 30min is not enough. They don't consider anything below "Rock solid".

End users : They want a fast, quick test that enable them to get an idea quick. Personally, i do think that if no errors was detected in 30min of testing, then virtually no errors can happen...

It'll be probably revamped in 1.1.0. This version will add a"memory" test, test that will do much like a memtest, but under windows. Mind you, it's going to be really less powerful (as it will ignore the memory taken by other programs and the OS), but there nonetheless. I think i'll revamp the auto test and rename it "Quick test", and add a "Thorough test" (Spelling?) that will do something like : 30min of CPU&RAM mode, 30min of RAM mode, 2 passes of memory checking. The thing should last 1h30min, around that.

Oh, btw, b12 will probably be entitled 1.0.3 ( the beta versions got screwed, because i decided, mid-way, to do an intermediate release instead of waiting a looooooong time before releasing 1.1.0 )


Here's another thing a power user is going to run Orthos for 8 hours or more. It is great to add new features but please leave the 30 minute Auto test the same as it is, add advanced features and longer tests is fine but keep the auto test just as it works today. Thanks

Just my 2c
 
Its a luck of the draw whether this program picks up an error because I've had it run for 2.5 hours and no errors when orthos picked up errors on the same OC within half an hour. So its best to use a combination of the 2 programs for testing whether an overclock is stable.
 
Hmn, my 3.7GHz e6400 passed over 7 hours of orthos (In fact, it could probably go further but I wanted to play games and stopped it at 7 hours 20.)

Although it fails this after 2 minutes.
 
OCCT is more chipset/memory sensitive than Orthos.

It's not memtest, mind you, but orthos stresses the CPU first, OCCT stresses the CPU/chipset/memory, and if there are any memory transfer error (not bad blocks, transfer), OCCT will be much more sensitive to them.

If you want a test which is more "orthos-like", select a custom test, and, in OCCT's settings, select the "CPU" test mode (default : CPU & RAM).

As for the 0.5<=> 2.5hours : i've never had such a huge span in error detection...

Impressive ;)
 
This isn't a rant about Windows vs <insert OS here>; it's just an observation that you're running software to test for stability on an OS that might exhibit non-stable characteristics inherently.
You need to spend less time at Slashdot. Seriously.

If you had any clue about what these stability tests are doing and how computers work you'd see how outright ignorant it is to say that these stability tests can be corrupted by the operating system, regardless of how unstable it might be.
 
the only complaint I have about the test is that it incorrectly identifies my Conroe (C2D 36300) as a merom.
 
You need to spend less time at Slashdot. Seriously.

If you had any clue about what these stability tests are doing and how computers work you'd see how outright ignorant it is to say that these stability tests can be corrupted by the operating system, regardless of how unstable it might be.

There is a cordial way to get your point across without flaming other members of this forum.

Thank you.
 
In 1.0.2a, Conroe detection was kind of broken, due to an innacurrate L2 cache detection.

The latest beta fix that :) Since 1.1.0.b06 or something like that.
 
I'm just posting to let you guys know that OCCT perestroika 1.1.0 is out :)

Lots of new features :) Including a better testing algorithm, lots of bugfixes and monitoring options ;)

http://www.ocbase.com for download :) :)
 
hey i really like this tool. very useful. i'm gonna be using this instead of orthos from now on :)
 
I too have switched from Orthos to OCCT. Thanks Tetedeiench this is a very nice piece of software.

This is the best thing I have ever seen for quickly detecting unstable overclocks . Keep up the great work. :D
 
This has been an interesting read so far but I have a few questions. If you run Folding @ Home you are using 100% of the CPU’s capacity assuming you don’t touch the keyboard since Folding will instantly stop and give up it’s cycles to what ever event you create.

Prime-95 runs in much the same way using only idle cycles, however Prime seems to push my temps about 2c higher then folding.

Stress CPU also uses 100% of any core it’s running on and also pushes my CPU temps about 1c higher then prime.

Otrhos is simply a simpler way to run Prime on both cores and use 100%, and my temps on Orthos run about the same as dual instances of Prime.

I tried OCCT and it was fine for 30 min, ran my CPU cores at 100% however it did raise my CPU temps a full 7c.

Strange how all these stress programs push the CPU to 100% but all differ in the Temps they produce. That translates to more work being done or less work being done by the processor even though it is theoretically already doing all it can at 100%.

My point is, a stress program could probably be written to crash a perfectly normal CPU almost instantly. Perhaps what we need is a new or different way of defining what 100% CPU usage means. On the other hand perhaps some of the test programs push the CPU beyond 100% (if in fact that’s possible). 100% of stock settings equals one thing while over clocking that same CPU to 1ghz over it’s rating, very common now with a CD2 then 100%, in my mind at least means something quite different.

Thoughts?:confused:
 
This has been an interesting read so far but I have a few questions. If you run Folding @ Home you are using 100&#37; of the CPU&#8217;s capacity assuming you don&#8217;t touch the keyboard since Folding will instantly stop and give up it&#8217;s cycles to what ever event you create.

Prime-95 runs in much the same way using only idle cycles, however Prime seems to push my temps about 2c higher then folding.

Stress CPU also uses 100% of any core it&#8217;s running on and also pushes my CPU temps about 1c higher then prime.

Otrhos is simply a simpler way to run Prime on both cores and use 100%, and my temps on Orthos run about the same as dual instances of Prime.

I tried OCCT and it was fine for 30 min, ran my CPU cores at 100% however it did raise my CPU temps a full 7c.

Strange how all these stress programs push the CPU to 100% but all differ in the Temps they produce. That translates to more work being done or less work being done by the processor even though it is theoretically already doing all it can at 100%.

My point is, a stress program could probably be written to crash a perfectly normal CPU almost instantly. Perhaps what we need is a new or different way of defining what 100% CPU usage means. On the other hand perhaps some of the test programs push the CPU beyond 100% (if in fact that&#8217;s possible). 100% of stock settings equals one thing while over clocking that same CPU to 1ghz over it&#8217;s rating, very common now with a CD2 then 100%, in my mind at least means something quite different.

Thoughts?:confused:

Yes. This is because, mostly, of branching prediction and pipelining, and the kind of instructions you use.

In some cases, the CPU needs to wait for the result of an instruction before starting his work on the next one. This happens, for instance, in branching ("if" instructions).

During this wait time, your CPU does virtually nothing, it is just waiting for the result of another instruction. However, during this time, nothing can be executed.

So, in all those cases, CPU will be reported as busy, even if it is waiting for a result, and thus, doing nothing.

Obviously, doing nothing is less likely to generate heat than computing. That's why some programs are more stressfull than others.

As OCCT checks for computing errors, i can not avoid all of those cases. That's why i will always be less effective than Intel TAT, which is just loading the CPU, and not checking the results. as OCCT is doing verification, it is loosing a bit of efficiency.

Moreover, some instructions will generate much more heat as they will activate more transistors than others. for instance, it is much more efficient, for heat geeration, to compute using the floating point unit, rather than the regular ALU (basic additions). The first one being much more complicated and using much more transistors than the latter. And it is much better to use SSE & SSE2 than FPU :) Even if SSE/SSE2 and FPU are, imho, the very same unit, using SSE you activate many more transistors, and thus generate more heat :)

So it depends on alot of things. in summary :
*Which unit you are using
*How many bubbles you are introducing in the CPU

OS-wise, the CPU is always viewed as 100% busy.... but that doesn't mean 100% of the CPU units are busy, nor even it is computing as its full capacity ;)

PS : i don't if that message is clear... english not being my native language ;) Sorry if it isn't, just ask, i'll try to clarify :) But this is really technical stuff, and i tried to stay as simple as possible.
 
I noticed this too. I can play fear for hours and have one core pegged and I don't break 48C. Once I run orthos or OCCT I run around 55C. I know the one core vs two core working but it's the same thing with encoding using two cores.

I just figured that the stress tests are making the cpu work harder.

Thanks for the explanation. :)
 
Yes. This is because, mostly, of branching prediction and pipelining, and the kind of instructions you use.

In some cases, the CPU needs to wait for the result of an instruction before starting his work on the next one. This happens, for instance, in branching ("if" instructions).

During this wait time, your CPU does virtually nothing, it is just waiting for the result of another instruction. However, during this time, nothing can be executed.

So, in all those cases, CPU will be reported as busy, even if it is waiting for a result, and thus, doing nothing.

Obviously, doing nothing is less likely to generate heat than computing. That's why some programs are more stressfull than others.

As OCCT checks for computing errors, i can not avoid all of those cases. That's why i will always be less effective than Intel TAT, which is just loading the CPU, and not checking the results. as OCCT is doing verification, it is loosing a bit of efficiency.

Moreover, some instructions will generate much more heat as they will activate more transistors than others. for instance, it is much more efficient, for heat geeration, to compute using the floating point unit, rather than the regular ALU (basic additions). The first one being much more complicated and using much more transistors than the latter. And it is much better to use SSE & SSE2 than FPU :) Even if SSE/SSE2 and FPU are, imho, the very same unit, using SSE you activate many more transistors, and thus generate more heat :)

So it depends on alot of things. in summary :
*Which unit you are using
*How many bubbles you are introducing in the CPU

OS-wise, the CPU is always viewed as 100% busy.... but that doesn't mean 100% of the CPU units are busy, nor even it is computing as its full capacity ;)

PS : i don't if that message is clear... english not being my native language ;) Sorry if it isn't, just ask, i'll try to clarify :) But this is really technical stuff, and i tried to stay as simple as possible.


Actually your English is pretty good.

I believe the phenomenon you are calling “bubbles” is actually “wait states” where the processor is actually looking for something to do. During those wait times, as a rule I believe most of the transistors are turned off. Also keep in mind RAM wait states add into the equation as well and these days of DDR2 I keep larger and larger numbers in RAM timings because the RAM can’t keep up with the CPU, not to mention the cache memory in the CPU is subject to these same latencies.

That being said, it looks like the stress tests simply turn on as many transistors as possible using complex code.

So, at what point does a given stress test ask more of the processor then any real world application, which again brings up what really is 100% CPU usage?
 
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