8800GT on ECS 6100sm-m board performs poorly???

Archaea

Archaea

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I had a 7800GTX previously...Windows Vista Exp. Scores

5.7
5.9

I just pooped in my Dell $209 MSI 8800GT, and re-ran the Vista 64 benchmark. It's pathetic...


3.7
4.4


I tried to run a game, Titan Quest, it runs like my wife's 8400GS. The board I have is a cheapy ECS 6100sm-m...but I've tried two different Nvidia drivers with the same result. The card works, just slowly. No errors or weird install anomolies!

Any ideas? Something is obviously not right!
 
Have you tried 3dMark 2006? I'd like to see what your score is..

Also, download GPU-Z and figure out what speed your card is running at, 16x, 4x..

Makes absolutely no sense for your previous card to score higher than the 8800GT.
 
GPU-Z states

663Mhz GPU clock,
950Mhz Memory clock
1674 Shader clock

PCI-E 2.0x16 @ x8

I don't have futuremark installed, but I can tell it's more than just fradulent reports on the Vista Exp. scores becuase a game I play a lot, Titan Quest, runs much worse at the same settings than the 7800GTX I had in the machine before. In fact Titan Quest now runs like my wife's 8400gs runs or at about that equivalent, as I've had her card in my machine before.
 
I found this " "In such case the question becomes if PCI Express 8x can offer enough bandwidth for PCIe 16x graphics cards perform at their peak? The short answer is simply, yes it does! Having full 16x SLI support has no real performance benefits over an 8x SLI setup, so again this is something gamers are surely not going to miss." "

So I guess x8 vs x16 isn't the issue, So is 2.5GT/s and 5GT/s signaling rates going to matter ? ( PCI 1.0 / PCI 2.0 )...?
 
Did you remember to plug in the extra power to the card? It almost seems like it is not getting enough.

I also play Titan Quest a lot, and just upgraded from 7800GT's SLI to an EVGA 8800GT. I saw almost zero improvement over the previous setup.
 
Standpoint said:
Did you remember to plug in the extra power to the card? It almost seems like it is not getting enough.

I also play Titan Quest a lot, and just upgraded from 7800GT's SLI to an EVGA 8800GT. I saw almost zero improvement over the previous setup.
Click to expand...

yeah, it's plugged in....

500watt PSU.

If it wasn't plugged in don't you get a driver warning error saying the card can't perform to full spec?!?!?
 
The 8800GT is known to perform horribly on /certain/ PCIe 1.0 boards. I suspect this is one of them. If you need a new board, I'm selling my 680i cheap, and it's been solid for around 6 months (shameless plug)
 
silent-circuit said:
The 8800GT is known to perform horribly on /certain/ PCIe 1.0 boards. I suspect this is one of them. If you need a new board, I'm selling my 680i cheap, and it's been solid for around 6 months (shameless plug)
Click to expand...

(also shameless plug) also my P5N32-E SLI Plus is for sale, which is a 650i with a 590i southbridge (does x16 for both slots for sli) and uses 680i drivers even. and it's benched better than a lot of 680i boards :D

the only downfall is it sucks for quads, it supports them sure, but it can't overclock them.
 
Optional87 said:
(also shameless plug) also my P5N32-E SLI Plus is for sale, which is a 650i with a 590i southbridge (does x16 for both slots for sli) and uses 680i drivers even. and it's benched better than a lot of 680i boards :D

the only downfall is it sucks for quads, it supports them sure, but it can't overclock them.
Click to expand...

Stealin' my thunder...
 
I e-mailed both ECS and MSI about this problem...we'll see what they come back with.
 
I just booted up to XP and am getting the warning message about insufficient power and degraded performance....

So i jump started a spare power supply - older sparkle 400watt (only 12amp on the 12 volt rail). and ran the extra 6 pin adapter off the spare 400, while my 450 watt psu with dual 14 and 16 amp 12 volt rails runs the rest of the setup. Some how I'm still getting the message - insufficient power in XP.

Vista gives me no such message, but just poor performance.

How is is possible that I wouldn't have enough 12 volt rail to run the 8800gt at this point? I thought they were a low power card?
 
"Low power" is a relative term. They're certainly lower power than a G80 based 8800 GTX, but that's not saying much.

Did it come with a 2 molex to PCIe adapter? Try using that with the Sparkle and see if the problem goes away.
 
silent-circuit said:
"Low power" is a relative term. They're certainly lower power than a G80 based 8800 GTX, but that's not saying much.

Did it come with a 2 molex to PCIe adapter? Try using that with the Sparkle and see if the problem goes away.
Click to expand...

it did and I just have...

In fact I'm beginning to think it isn't power afterall.

I plugged the mainboard four pin connector and the three IDE/sata devices into the 400watt sparkle. So the only thing my 450 watt cheapy xion power supply is running is the motherboard, the PCI audigy card, the processor, ram and the 8800GT....All my fans have been unhooked, and I'm running an AMD be-2400 (45 watt processor).


The 450 watt PSU at this point isn't running any hard-drives and isn't even suppling the mainboard four pin extra power connector power. The 450 watt PSU is powering the motherboard through the 24 pin jumper though.

My Antec Earthwatts 500 watt psu gave up the ghost a couple months back and is in the process of being RMA'ed so that's why I have older/cheapy power supplys being used.


Could the problem with the PCI-E 1.x standard vs. 2.0 standard be revealing it's self in a power deficancy message in XP?
 
I rather doubt that. Do you know anyone with a rig that'd let you test that card real quick? See if they have similar issues? Regardless of where this ends up, I'd get rid of that ECS board quick.
 
MSI Tech. 01/26/2008 It is hard to say so check with the mb vendor for detail.
End User 01/26/2008 I've got some updates, I've tried using a couple power supplies in parrallel on a spare copy of XP after I noticed in XP I'm getting an insufficient power message. Though at this point I think the message may be wrong. http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1267265
End User 01/26/2008 Are we talking about a reduction to 8400gs or 8500gt levels?
MSI Tech. 01/26/2008 Yes, the card does but this will reduce the performance of the card when your chipset and PCI-E slot are not PCI-E Gen v2.0 compliance.
End User 01/26/2008 Isn't the 8800GT supposed to be backwards compatible with the PCI-E 1.x spec?
MSI Tech. 01/26/2008 Check and make sure both the mb chipset and slot are PCI-E Gen 2.0 compliance or it might not support the newer card in this spec: Graphics Bus Technology: PCI Express 2.0
End User 01/26/2008 Upgraded from a BFG 7800GTX 256MB card to the new MSI 8800GT. My frame rates in games dropped tremendously. On my 7800GTX previously...Windows Vista Exp. Scores for desktop and gaming. 5.7 5.9 I popped in the MSI 8800GT, and re-ran the Vista 64 benchmark. It's pathetic... 3.7 4.4 I tried to run a game, Titan Quest, it runs like my wife's 8400GS. The board I have is a cheapy ECS 6100sm-m...but I've tried two different Nvidia drivers with the same result. THe CD version, and the newest drivers off the Nvidia website. The card works, just slowly. No errors or weird install anomolies! I have not seen any power supply insufficiency errors. The 12v1 and 12v2 rails have 14 and 16 amps on the Xion powersupply and it meets ATX 2.2 specifications. Any ideas? Something is obviously not right!
 
Sadly I know jack about AMD boards and compatibility with that card. I could give you a list of about 20 Intel boards that don't have issues... but I see that'd be no real help.
 
RangerSVT said:
found this " "In such case the question becomes if PCI Express 8x can offer enough bandwidth for PCIe 16x graphics cards perform at their peak? The short answer is simply, yes it does! Having full 16x SLI support has no real performance benefits over an 8x SLI setup, so again this is something gamers are surely not going to miss." "

So I guess x8 vs x16 isn't the issue, So is 2.5GT/s and 5GT/s signaling rates going to matter ? ( PCI 1.0 / PCI 2.0 )...?
Click to expand...

Could have sworn I posted the trail to the answer, I've never experienced so many people to overlook actual facts to the answer of the problem in question.
 
I'd think it was a signaling rate issue, but... eh. Who knows. Think about it though -- PCIe 2.0 signaling rate is 2x as fast, 2x the available bandwidth, so...

If the 8800 GT is put in a 16x PCIe 1.0 slot it gets 4GB/s bandwidth. If it's put in a 16x PCIe 2.0 slot it gets 8GB/s bandwidth. If it's put in an 8x electrical PCIe 1.0 slot it's only getting 2GB/s bandwidth. That /still/ shouldn't make it slower than a 7 series GPU, but maybe the signaling issue only becomes an issue below a certain bandwidth threshold.
 
Here is ECS's response

ECS Support(USA) Posted : GMT 2008/01/26 18:59:07
We are not sure what do you mean by the "running far too slow". It sure that 8800GT will be faster then you 7800GTX but the windows score will not jump to make big difference. However, the 8800GT is PCI-e 2.0 the motherboard is only support on the 1.X. For the better performance, you need a motherboard that support on PCI-E 2.0.

For further and faster respond, please call at
510-226-7333 option 6
and then option 2 from 9-5:30 PM PT M-F

***************

Jonathan Vonengeln Posted : GMT 2008/01/26 04:30:40
I just bought an 8800GT and it's running far too slow. I had a 7800GTX previously...Windows Vista Exp. Scores for desktop and gaming were

5.7
5.9

I just pooped in my brand new MSI 8800GT, and re-ran the Vista 64 benchmark. It's pathetic...


3.7
4.4


I tried to run a game, Titan Quest, at 1680x1050 resolution and it's very jerky, where it was very smooth on the 7800GTX. The new 8800GT runs like my wife's 8400GS. The board I have is an ECS 6100sm-m...I've tried two different Nvidia drivers, the newewst off the website, and the drivers that came with the MSI retail package on CD. --- Both had the same result. The card works, just slowly. No errors or weird install anomolies!

Any ideas? Something is obviously not right! I've installed the newest motherboard and BIOS revision off your website as well.
 
So now I've got both ECS and MSI shaking their head.

I went over to a friends house and tried it in two different PCs. One an AMD x2 rig, the other an Core 2 Duo rig. One had a 500watt Thermaltake PSU, the other a 600 watt Ultra.

It still said insufficient power on both rigs. I think the card may be bad??? Baring further suggestion I'm going to try to contact Dell and get an RMA....
 
Card's messed up more than likely. Not that a 600 watt Ultra is a great supply, or a 500 watt Thermaltake, as I doubt it was the Toughpower line.

Regardless, you are badly in need of a better PSU.
 
ryan_975 said:
There should be a card between the two PCIe slots, Make sure it's put in single card mode instead of SLI. If you're using SLI, then you can only get x8 in each slot.
Click to expand...


thank so much.. bought this mobo open box and i had it almost a year and i've been running my cards 7600gt, gts 640 and now gts 512 only x8.:D will i see any difference in performance?
 
brysig228 said:
thank so much.. bought this mobo open box and i had it almost a year and i've been running my cards 7600gt, gts 640 and now gts 512 only x8.:D will i see any difference in performance?
Click to expand...

most likely no....

Look up benchmarks on PCI-E 8x vs. 16x.


The 8800GTS can't saturate the pci-e 8x interface, so I doubt your 7600GT is going to.
 
so I've tried this now on four PCs...all the same thing.

It's gotta be a bad card. RMA time.
 
I can tell you that NF4 boards work fine with the 8800 GT and work at full 16x pcie mode.

8800gtnf4yi4.jpg


my 8800GT runs great, it was over twice as fast as my old 7800GT the only problem i have been having is random crashes that are very inconsistent and usaly when in windows but happens in game from time to time as well, im suspecting my PSU or possibly my motherboard, sucks i cannot find decent 939 board for sale anymore, i don't wanna upgrade my cpu its fast enough

system details:
Opty 170 running stock speeds
abit AN8 SLI (NF4)
4 GB DDR ram
GF8800 GT
SB Audigy platinum (old school, but great)
2x DVD-RW's
3x 7200 RPM HD's total space 1.1 TB
about 3 fans total including cpu fan that is very high output one
thermaltake 600 AP psu (not sure how good this psu is i read that only the toughpower line are good and i think this is the source of my problems)

i can play crysis at 1680 x 1050 high quality, no aa/af and its silky smooth

on this basis i would say your card is bad, like everyone else here has said, but i wouldn't rule out ECS boards, i have seen many that were DOA before brand new in box, they arnt the highest quality main boards imo

and if anyone can give me suggestions on my issue it would be much appreciated, i'm going to try a new psu tomarrow, hopefully that fixes my problem
 
it was the GPU, I replaced it and the new one works fine on the ECS board. 8x, but doens't matter--- it makes a HUGE improvement over the 7800gtx.
 
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