Your Thoughts on 3DMark threats to HardOCP.

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FrgMstr

FrgMstr

Just Plain Mean
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I would love to hear what you guys think about HardOCP and our coverage and stance about 3DMark and today's mails from Futuremark to HardOCP giving HardOCP directives. (Posted on the front page.)

Originally Posted by Tim
While we are on this subject and to make sure everyone knows this has been going on for some time, check out the articles on the subject:

Benchmarking Right
Benchmarking Wrong
[H]ard|OCP 11/13/03 Editorial
Cheating the Cheaters
 
Well since its your opinion and they dont like, not much they can really do. Jesus might as well have George W. Bush sue John Kerry because he does not agree with George W. Bush's decisions! LOL totally stupid....

DASHlT
 
What in the world are they so afraid of? People will still try and use the damn thing no matter how useless it is.
 
dude hawt. 3dmark in my mind is useless as a benchmark against games. Good one calling them on first ammendment. What a sad way to represent Futuremark. What a FOOL that guy was.
 
Suprised to hear of such a thing. This guy must have a lot of time on his hands.
 
You are 100% allowed to state your opinion regarding a product as long as it is obviously that -- an opinion.

I can't stand some other enthusiast sites because they're just writing articles for the highest bidder... The rest are all hype with no basis in the real-world. (I'll omit names, just to save my own ass ;)) HardOCP, on the other hand, I feel does an excellent job in a majority of it's articles.

Fwiw, I agree that none of futuremark's products do a good job at projecting real-world gaming results. However, I still have downloaded each one to use -- and they still make an *excellent* tool for pushing a video card to the max for the purposes of burning in, and system stability tests! Futuremark sounds hurt that we don't use the product as they intend -- but the fact remains we've found a better use for it. If futuremark would stop obsessing about being the gamers "benchmark" and more of a utility to stress the hardware to hell and back, they may be happier with the reviews people write ;)
 
Today, I will uninstall 3dmark until there has been a formal apology. This is ridiculous.
 
My god, this guy is management at Futuremark? Damn wonder how he ever got a job.......
 
Well, it does suck.
That said... I already paid $20 so I can use the ORB mulitcompare, etc....

Then again I've bought many games for $50 which I spend less time "playing" with.

SplinterCell both games... $50 played a few days, beat the game, havent touched since.

3dMark (all versions) I use when ever I tweak my system or get a new piece of hardware. And I use the web tool for comparing all the time. Though I wouldnt pay more than $20 for it.
 
This is going to be great.
A useless benchmarking company agaist [H]ardOCP...ehhehe
if i where them i would back out now and stfu. there tool does not use any of the gaming engines that REAL games use.
3dmark imo is as useless as tom's hardware along with driverheaven and rage3d
lets hope there PR is not as useless as there software :eek:
 
Gotta love how Tero responded with "You know what I mean." If you look at past problems(ie Infinium Labs) you'll see Kyle even changed some of what he said that could be taken wrong. Not like that changed the story they posted though.
 
What a bunch of idiots, don't people ever learn that suing people for expressing thier opinion about you doesn't work...

The smackdown on the frontpage is entirely appropriate...I can't say I'm impressed with their VP...hell I'm just starting college and I know the law better than that guy...
 
Personal opinion, he hasn't a leg to stand on. Kyle asked him what he took offense too so that it could be remedied and he replied that Kyle knew full well what. You want to complain about something, BE SPECIFIC. Otherwise it's just FUD
 
Wow.

While it's fine if Futuremark disagrees with the editors' opinion of their products, the correct way to handle it is through PR contacts - try to talk them into saying something good instead of forcing them not to voice their opinions.

On top of that, to claim libel, you have to provide specific instances. "You know what I mean" doesn't cut it.
 
The legal threats from this guy are a complete joke. He obviously has no clue about U.S. libel law, because there is simply no way that he can meet the required burden of proof... or even get his foot in the door. Heck, he doesn't even know the difference between "slander" and "libel." We are talking about a guy who could increase his legal knowledge by listening to J. Jonah Jameson in Spider-Man. :rolleyes:

He has just made himself look like a total and utter fool.
 
Shoot, there are tons and tons of sites saying windows sux all over the net. Does microsoft bother sueing them? NO, because they realize there is no point. 3dmark needs to pull their head out of their ass and realize the days of their worthless little benchmark are coming to an end.

If I was using my videocard to run benchmarks then sure their little suite would be great. However, the only reason I would even run their software is to test for stability. Run it in loop for awhile see if anything crashes. These points they give are a complete mystery to me. Wow I scored 8000 points in 3dmark 2003 or whatever. How does this translate in to anything useful? Guess what, it doesn't. Just another way for people to whip out their digital penis and compare it to others.

Anyways, end of rant.
 
Criminy...I dont think that doomsday for synthetic video card benchmarks is very far off. Especially when the benchmarks are funded by the companies whose video cards are supposed to be objectively represented by.

What a bunch of crap.

I downloaded the thing but had not installed it yet. Now I dont believe I will.
 
You know... instead of threatening the [H], maybe he could write his own little editorial and tell us what 3DMark is usefull for. Unless of course it has no use, and he knows it. ;)

Good job Kyle. I have been increasingly impressed with your ability to not give in to this kind of crap.

More power to the [H].
 
Wow, I didn't think HardOCP had all this power but these lawsuits that come up seem to say otherwise. Maybe Kyle should run for pres. in 2008. Apparently he could use the news page to get himself elected.

On the topic of futuremark bashing, everyones entitled to their opinion. I really don't think I've ever seen [H] overstep the boundries of honest criticism in anything that's been published.
 
I just emailed the fool to let him know some of us agree with HardOCP.

Here is my message:
______________________
Tero:
Are you kidding me? 3DMark is NOT a valid suite for benchmarking anything but performance in the 3DMark application. It will NOT tell you how your system will perform in ANY game, since it is not using a "standard" game engine - ie it is not powered by the Doom engine, or HalfLife engine, or UT2k4 or any other of a dozen choices.

Threatening HardOCP is just childish, and makes you guys seem like you are afraid that people will agree with the opinion that HardOCP offers. I have news for you - we ALREADY agree with them - because what they say is PERFECTLY VALID.

Grow up, suck it up, and code a VALID benchmarking suite that will tell me how my system will perform in REAL GAMES!! I can't "play" 3DMark!

Sincerely,
Phil.
 
Dont you just hate little nerd faggots like Tero Sarkkinen that think they actually have some sort of weight to throw around? Their the kind of people you just wish you could meet in person someday.

I mean seriously, 3DMark2005 is just an extention to the rest of their worthless benchmarks. It doesn't represent real performance at all because ATI and nVidia both highly optimize for it to try and beat the other in points as if the scores actually meant something.

Hard sure is getting alot of attention lately lol.
 
this is the state of the USA that we live in. anyone can sue you for anything they feel unhappy about.

and it is up to you to get a gaggle of lawyers to defend yourself.

too bad
 
creedAMD said:
Today, I will uninstall 3dmark until there has been a formal apology. This is ridiculous.
Click to expand...

damn, you're a rebel!
 
Go Hardocp!!

Hardocp is within its rights according the class in business law I took over the summer. And I love the way Hardocp burned Futuremark with the sentence "And Tero, I know you guys are not Americans, so you might want to catch up with The United States Constitution and specifically the First Amendment to it."

Has Futuremark not noticed the positive 3DMark05 threads that are in the forum? Do they look at the forums at all? I myself have compiled a list of 138 (so far) scores that were posted in the scores thread. It took awhile but I enjoyed doing it becuase I believe that everyone should be able to compare their scores to others who read Hardocp.

Recently I changed the format by putting the list in Excel and taking screnshots of the scores list. If you want to see the list go here.


Shameless list promotion!

It is post number 237, for those who are not viewing 40 posts per page like me.
 
d34dly said:
You know... instead of threatening the [H], maybe he could write his own little editorial and tell us what 3DMark is usefull for. Unless of course it has no use, and he knows it. ;)

Good job Kyle. I have been increasingly impressed with your ability to not give in to this kind of crap.

More power to the [H].
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I specifically asked Tero about this a couple of weeks ago in a mail and quite frankly his answer was very short and not that good. That will be in our upcoming editorial.
 
I think Futuremark realises that the gaming community isnt buying into the "value" that its software offers anymore, and its trying to hush up anyone who tells it like it is. People are using the free version and then moving on to other things - theres so many better things to put your $20 to these days.
 
I'm suprised he didn't say he was going to tell his dad on you if you didn't quit calling 3dmark names...be carefull though Kyle, he may try and get you after recess ;) :rolleyes:

Way to generate bad PR for yourselves Futuremark...
 
Well I just uninstalled all futuremark crap from my PC and don't plan on using any of their products until the formally apologize.....and if that doesn't happen...maybe we should have a mass boycott...im sure if enough people did it nvidia and ATi will notice....then they might not want to fund 3dmark anymore because the user base they are paying to market to won't be there....but maybe just in a worse case scenario
 
if 3dmark feels threatened by this, it means they have somn to hide. that and the fact that they think everyone is cutting into their profits (money). but the sad fact is the tool IS godamn useless when it comes to telling gamers whehter your hardware is good 'nuff for doom3/hl2.
 
I feel that kyle is in the right on this issue also, all of Hards articles have been opinion based on their experance, and are no way slandering futuremark with bias opinions.

I know this shit cost an arm and a left, I still owe my lawyer damn near 1k still... UGH..

Lets start up the ol HELP KYLE FIGHT THIS DUMB SHIT FUND!!!!!!!!!!! I'll chip in 10 bucks :p
 
Kyle should consider doing fair and balanced news like fox. HardOCP needs another editor who is the polar opposite of himself and his beliefs and will chime in notes in support of 3dmark. Keep it fair and balanced PLZ.
 
DASHlT said:
Well since its your opinion and they dont like, not much they can really do. Jesus might as well have George W. Bush sue John Kerry because he does not agree with George W. Bush's decisions! LOL totally stupid....

DASHlT
Click to expand...


That sounds more like an Edwards type move... ;)
 
In my opinion they expected [H] to respond with that and that the wheels were already in motion from their point of view.

Too bad it is not politically correct to just tell them to piss off.

Hey Kyle - care to share the email address of this fool so that some of us can send him our opinion directly?
 
It's all about the money.
If they feel that [H]ardOCP "might" have some negative influence that affects directly the sales department , 3DMark will bark left and right . No matter how true it is .
 
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