Your Thoughts on 3DMark threats to HardOCP.

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Not only will i email them about them being a bunch of assholes,but i will uninstall there product.Futuremark sucks ASS!
 
It's really sad that FutureMark is resorting to this, trying to scare you in to not publishing your opinion.

I personally think 3dmark is useless, and is just system stressing eye candy.

They obviously have no basis for their accusation if all they can reply with is, "You know what I mean."

Hopefully I won't get sued for this post. We all know [H] will prevail.
 
HAHAHAHA. What a good read! I just lost ALL respect for Futuremark. I can't stand people and companies that try to enforce this shit on everyone.

- Oooo, hes gonna sick his lawyers on us... oh no! (hides under table) -

Give me a break! thats totally bs. Everyone is allowed to have an opinion. And in my opinion, Futuremark can burn in hell. I will not be buying a product of theirs ever again.

(one other note) The line in his statement of "I will no longer communicate with you after this." OMG are you 3 years old?! damn sea bitches!
 
Reminds me of Howard Stern vs the FCC. You state your opinion, you get burned. I don't think hardocp was posting slander. You basically in your little post Kyle stated your mind and overall said what you always say. Nothing was slander. If it were, i'm sure it would be a lot worse than that. 3Dmark wasn't discredited by hardocp, it was discredited by themselves and the Nvidia fiascos, random score bugs. It is a fun benchmark, but nothing more. This type of situation seems regular for you guys at Hardocp however :)

Really upsets me though how these companies think they can control you like that. It's ridiculous. They are just trying to make money, but at the same time, attacking you like that isn't the right approach, since if they haven't noticed, you come right out for a public opinion. It really is a mistake they shouldn't be making.
 
[RIP]Zeus said:
but but but but...my keyboard works for it. why not my joystick?....i wanna fly the boat...but i need my joystick :D
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you DON"T fly the boat. It's a benchmark, it's like one huge video that 3dmark is monitoring your framrates. Your keyboard doesn't do anything.......................
:confused:
 
i say sue them for copyright violation's
they copied your website news page...now the tables have turned. :eek:
heheh :D
 
LOL

What a dickhead! his reply, "You know what I mean" lol

just keep writing your reviews Kyle.

I just feel sorry for ya since you gotta deal with another lawsuite (maybe)
 
Nomad said:
In my opinion they expected [H] to respond with that and that the wheels were already in motion from their point of view.

Too bad it is not politically correct to just tell them to piss off.

Hey Kyle - care to share the email address of this fool so that some of us can send him our opinion directly?
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His email address is posted on the front page :p

[email protected]
 
II think what everyone has missed is that this sort of thing is not all that uncommon. what we are seeing here is something that has been going on for years. Simply put you try the legal threat and when that fails you try and get a judge to push a cease and desist order through. The sad reality is most people will not stand up and be counted, they will shuffle away with a quick apology and hope the big bad business man does not ruin them with terrible legal fees.

Whatever country you are from be it the U.S.A, Canada, Great Britain I think you have right to say your mind as do the law makers. I must say I truly respect Kyle for standing up to this kind of bullying. I think personal attacks on Tero are waste of your time and miss the point. He is trying a scare tactic that has just badly backfired. I honestly think he expected Kyle to fold and walk away as He already has all this crap with the Phantom to deal with. The other major mistake is that he forgot the community will spread this story. What might have been something small is now front page news here and who knows where else it will come up. Is 3Dmark a useful tool? I would say yes. Is it synthetic? You bet but it is fun and as Kyle said great for tweaking your system. Sadly all 3DMARK could see was Kyle saying that it is not the be all and end all of benchmarks and does not reflect actual game play.
Long live your right to express your opinion

I may not always agree with your opinion but I will fight to my last breath to make sure you have the right to express it
 
i'd rather put $20 towards Kyle's lawyers than purchase 3DMark 05'

wouldn't it be funny if 3DMark apologized then gave 1000 FREE licenses... would you even think about re-installing it again?

"f-no!"
 
My thoughts on this?


WHEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!

No insults intended to ya Kyle, but I intend to enjoy watching this one.

popc1.gif
popc1.gif
popc1.gif
 
creedAMD said:
But it picks up my system fine! I try to shoot, but it acts like I didn't put a quarter in! :wtf:madderthanhell:
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That's cause you aint actually controlling it....think of it more like a big video you watch and 3dmark is writing down how well it plays
 
mindabsence said:
you DON"T fly the boat. It's a benchmark, it's like one huge video that 3dmark is monitoring your framrates. Your keyboard doesn't do anything.......................
:confused:
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i hope to god your not being serious........ :confused:
 
mindabsence said:
you DON"T fly the boat. It's a benchmark, it's like one huge video that 3dmark is monitoring your framrates. Your keyboard doesn't do anything.......................
:confused:
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Er...he was joking man. Basically we're saying 3dMark05 isn't a GAME so it's poop.
 
I find this hilarious and FutureMark's arrogance is quite telling.

I have never found any value of any 3dmark programs except as was noted on Hardops statement. To me it's more of a money making gimmick than anything else. I have always been astounded what Futuremark charges companies (like Nvidia, ATI, etc) to belong to their elite membership (millions). Furturemark is making money hand over fist and personally I wouldn't give them a dime as it gives me nothing of any value that I can use.

Go Hardop!
 
If FutureMark wants to go hit their bony heads against a [H]ardazz wall, let 'em.

If FM wants to get busted (again) for their crazy corporate takes on the world at large (us v. them), let 'em.

We just don't care, nor are we afraid. Thanks, Kyle, for pointing out that it is a free country...
 
I agree with Futuremark. Kyle has a personal issue with the benchmark and since his point of view is the only thing that is voiced on the websites front page, it unduely influences the tens of thousands that visit this site each day. We need a polar opposite to Kyle as editor to keep things fair and balanced.
 
raz-0 said:
Well, i tend not to pay too much attention to 3dmark, or HardOCP's rants on the subject. To me, it seems kind of like an astroturf vs. grass type of argument, and you don't see the makers of astroturf suing anyone that doesn't like astroturf.

IMO 3dmark isn't useless, but it isn't terribly useful either

What it is useful for:
-seeing some cool next gen style eye candy upon release
-as a benchmark for seeing if a tweak or change to your system made a difference
-as a system and video abuser for burn in.

what it is marginally useful for:
-comparing performance between two similarly configured machines to see if the performance you are getting is normal or "just you"


what it is bad for:
-making predictive statements about a system's performance in anything other than 3dmark.

Especially with newer eye candy relying on shader programs. BAck when game performance was a matter of shoving textured polygons at the screen as fast as possible, there wasn't all that much room for variation in how you get it there. These days, with all the new and different eye candy coming down to shader programs, the odds of futuremarks algorithms being representative of shipping products for the next year is slim to none.

Case in point: far cry had rippling heat haze that my machine barely notices. Doom3 had levels with lots of rippling heat haze in the hell levels, and it made a huge dent in FPS. full spectrum warrior does a rippling heat haze as a large environmentl effect to simulate mirage. It isn't really a performance hit, but it doesn't seem to play well with AA and AF.

So tell me, which method and algortihm for rippling heat haze is 3dmark testing for me? It certainly isn't doing all three, and thus is going to be bad at telling me how those games perform.
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Quoted for Truth, this sums up my feelings exactly!
 
Funny batman how you can say it's poop, yet you continue in your threads to use that to downplay ATI so much. Ironic. Well I guess it's not fair to point out you specifically, as you Trancendez and empty do it. Same 3 I always see. WOO Rhyming ;)
 
bboynitrous said:
Funny batman how you can say it's poop, yet you continue in your threads to use that to downplay ATI so much. Ironic. ;)
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I just wish he would stop cursing because of the kids (mods what about the kids?). Think of the kids plz.
 
I would hesitate to invoke the First Amendment so quickly, as it was originally intended to apply only to Government and public service figures. That being said, precident has been set where, if a statement can be proven, it is not slander or libel.

But you don't need me to tell you that -- that's what lawyers are for.

Lastly, DASHIT: "Want an Army Draft so you can go to war? vote for Bush!" just isn't accurate. Two Democrats introduced that bill. And politics just don't belong on this site.
[cmd: dj_spanmaster offsoapbox]
 
Another day. Another lawsuit.

It almost seems this is becoming a regular day to day event. With [H]ard|COP being so popular, anything they post is read through and through by the zillions of fans here. If that information (product reviews...good or bad) get back to the company of review (or that's in the news headlines)....you can bet they will listen. In this case, I believe we have a company that can't handle an opinion from a very popular website. And that seems to be the problem.

These companies realize how popular (and powerfull...from a product placement standpoint) the [H] is. I think Infinium and FutureMark are just a little sensitive because they can't take the heat. FutureMark probably noticed their sales are dipping below 4th quarter expectations...hmmm...better blame [H]ard|COP.

I come to this site for a reason. The information that is posted on this site is raw, real, and down to earth. If you can't take it, don't f&*&%#ing come here. This site does more than enough to honor their fanbase. Free computers, computer parts, gift cards, donations...you name it. Now that is how you handle your fans. You get some, you give some. In my opinion, FutureMark may have totally fubar'd their fans...

- SKINNER
Detroit, Michigan
 
bboynitrous said:
Funny batman how you can say it's poop, yet you continue in your threads to use that to downplay ATI so much. Ironic. ;)
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Agreed; If you think 3DMark is crap, then you can't use it against ATI, or NVIDIA for that matter.
 
gordon151 said:
I agree with Futuremark. Kyle has a personal issue with the benchmark and since his point of view is the only thing that is voiced on the websites front page, it unduely influences the tens of thousands that visit this site each day. We need a polar opposite to Kyle as editor to keep things fair and balanced.
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Good news.
You can just about pick any random hardware review site and get what your looking for. :rolleyes:

As for the rest of us we are gonna look towards a future free of futuremark propaganda.
 
gordon151 said:
I agree with Futuremark. Kyle has a personal issue with the benchmark and since his point of view is the only thing that is voiced on the websites front page, it unduely influences the tens of thousands that visit this site each day. We need a polar opposite to Kyle as editor to keep things fair and balanced.
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If Nvidia was dominating 3dMark05 you'd be licking Kyle's balls. Only reason you're prancing about like a little fairy is because ATI is the current 3DMark05 leader. Hypocrite.

Doesn't matter who wins the 3DMark05 trophy when the prize is a turd.
 
[RIP]Zeus said:
Plz show us what you will write him :D

i going to be sending emails to him tonight after work with my friends.
they hate 3dmark just as much as i do.
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My email to FM:



Sir,

I read the emails that you sent, from the hardocp.com homepage, to Kyle Bennett regarding his opinion of synthetic benchmarks, and specifically 3DMark05. I must let you know that I think that it is wrong of you to threaten legal action because of his opinion. In all of the articles/reviews that I have read Kyle, and staff, have been more than fair about synthetic benchmarking applications by explaining that he looks at them as a very basic tool for comparing system builds and modifications to systems, but that they should not be used to tell a computer enthusiast how a particular game will run on their machine. For that, you should simply install and run the actual game.

I have been an avid user of Futuremark products for the past few years but I can tell you a couple of things:

1: I will be uninstalling all Futuremark applications from my machines as soon as I get home from work this evening.
2: I will not be downloading/using any of your products in the future.
3: Negative advertising is the cheapest, and I will be telling all of my friends to take a look at the hardocp.com home page.
4: I fully expect a public apology for threatening to use your attorney to resolve the issue.

In my opinion, you have selected the wrong crowd to alienate here. The average computer user does not use any of your products. The group of people that will use your products are well educated, technically minded computer enthusiasts looking to glean every ounce of performance out of their computer hardware. It is also a very tight knit group of people and word travels fast.

Good luck in your future endeavors,
Jeff
 
Oh please, everyone tries to protect their company's brand name and image. I like 3DMark, and at times I have felt that HardOCP's views are skewed regarding a couple of things. Then again, how many news and information sources are actually objective all the time.
Don't get me wrong I do like HardOCP because of how people help each other, but I think that HardOCP is being as unprofessional as Futuremark by trying to ridicule a person and a company based on a couple of e-mail exchanges.
 
Funny batman how you can say it's poop, yet you continue in your threads to use that to downplay ATI so much. Ironic. Well I guess it's not fair to point out you specifically, as you Trancendez and empty do it. Same 3 I always see. WOO Rhyming.
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I downplayed 3DMark05 because of the idiotic boost BOTH ATI and Nvidia cards got when moving to certain drivers even though those drivers didn't do much for gaming. When did I downplay ATI themselves in regards to 3DMark05.

Besides, if you like 3Dmark so much, why don't you go over to the Futuremark forums and spare us your commentary. You've got less wit than most twits. WOO Ryming.
 
trudeak said:
II think what everyone has missed is that this sort of thing is not all that uncommon. what we are seeing here is something that has been going on for years. Simply put you try the legal threat and when that fails you try and get a judge to push a cease and desist order through. The sad reality is most people will not stand up and be counted, they will shuffle away with a quick apology and hope the big bad business man does not ruin them with terrible legal fees.

Whatever country you are from be it the U.S.A, Canada, Great Britain I think you have right to say your mind as do the law makers. I must say I truly respect Kyle for standing up to this kind of bullying. I think personal attacks on Tero are waste of your time and miss the point. He is trying a scare tactic that has just badly backfired. I honestly think he expected Kyle to fold and walk away as He already has all this crap with the Phantom to deal with. The other major mistake is that he forgot the community will spread this story. What might have been something small is now front page news here and who knows where else it will come up. Is 3Dmark a useful tool? I would say yes. Is it synthetic? You bet but it is fun and as Kyle said great for tweaking your system. Sadly all 3DMARK could see was Kyle saying that it is not the be all and end all of benchmarks and does not reflect actual game play.
Long live your right to express your opinion

I may not always agree with your opinion but I will fight to my last breath to make sure you have the right to express it
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You are very correct. This BS happens all the time and people constantly have to tuck their tail between their legs and back off because they do not have the funds to fight it out.

I learned a LONG time ago, that having money stashed for a rainy day is a KEY to running a succesful website.
 
why don't they just learn from the criticism and learn from it and make better stuff next time? it's not that hard to conceptualize.
 
... and in related news it was announced today that FutureMark wil be the official benchmark supplier to Infinium Labs.

"With 3DMark05 we now truly have an application that can stand on its own as one the gaming community want to see on our console", said Tim Roberts. "Questions on the availability of games, and how well Doom 3 or Counter Strike play on the Phantom console are now put to rest. We have outstanding benchmarks to prove that no matter what we choose to ship, it will be sensational. We have the numbers to prove it. In a locked drawer. Umm, with our auditors, who umm got hit by Ivan, and now live in Guam, making it outside the jurisdiction of the state of Texas. Whats Texas got to do with it? Nothing, except thats where KB Networks is ... and if someone is going into litigation ... we want a part of it. Can you spell class action?"
 
gordon151 said:
I agree with Futuremark. Kyle has a personal issue with the benchmark and since his point of view is the only thing that is voiced on the websites front page, it unduely influences the tens of thousands that visit this site each day. We need a polar opposite to Kyle as editor to keep things fair and balanced.
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But having someone tell you that 3DMark could really show you how your system is going to perform in the latest games would be a lie. :(

If you want to send in an editorial with a "polar oppisite" point of view, we could possibly use some of this in our upcoming editorial. Could make for some great debate. :)
 
Personally I don't pay much attention to frame rates or numbers in games, and I've never even bothered to enable a frame rate counter in a game. The bottom line for me is if a game is running at an acceptable rate for me to enjoy. I do however enjoy eye candy and I always try to keep up with the technology about every 3 years by buying or building a new gaming system.
I was probably late to the party when it came to trying out 3D Mark. I thought is was a pretty cool thing to look at and did keep track of the numbers while trying different video card drivers.
Shortly after that the "scandal" with Nvidia optimizing their drivers for 3D Mark was discovered by the folks at Extreme Tech. Later it became apparent to me that both ATI and Nvidia "tweak" their drivers to improve performance not only in benchmark testing, but gaming as well. My only concern with "tweaking" is whether the "optimizations" are affecting the way a game is supposed to be displayed.
It was shortly after the Nvidia "optimizations" were discovered that I uninstalled 3D Mark and never bothered with it again. It just seem to have lost some validity when that was discovered.
Since then you folks here at [H] have made a point to focus moreso on actual gameplay over benchmark tools for performance tests and I agree with your approach on that. We all know folks with ATI video cards will be seeing a better performance with Half Life 2 over those with Nvidia cards that have enjoyed a smoother game experience in Doom 3. The differences in games can be great and a tool such as 3D Mark could be a poor representation of what you'll experience with a game.
3D Mark can still be useful for testing purposes such as when you're making changes on one system and want to see the performance gains. Also it's a nice eye candy tool. And it may be a tool to get a general idea of where a machine stacks up overall in performance.

(These are my personal opinions and in no way reflect the opinions of 3D Gamers, ownership and affiliations)
 
Just wrote him:

As a member of the Hardocp.com, I would like to tell you my opinion of your threats to the website that is my homepage.

You obviously don't understand the 1st amendment rights that are set up by the U.S. constitution; moreover, you are biting the hand that feeds you. By attacking the Hardocp you have attacked the very people that use your product. This action has angered many members of the Hardocp including me. I know that I am not alone when I say that I will never purchase a Futurmark product.

The benchmark "3DMark" is not a true test of how a system will play future games. It can be useful personal level to see how tweaks improve system performance, but as far as a standard "test" that will show how computers play next-gen games it is not. The fact that "benchmarks" like yours will soon be faded out is apparent to more people then you think. Now that most real games have their own benchmarks it won't be necessary to use your product. You know this, and that is why you are attacking the Hardocp, not because of "slander."

Sincerely,

Nathan Dowd


My .02
 
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