Your Thoughts on 3DMark threats to HardOCP.

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Altima said:
Well I just uninstalled all futuremark crap from my PC and don't plan on using any of their products until the formally apologize.....and if that doesn't happen...maybe we should have a mass boycott...im sure if enough people did it nvidia and ATi will notice....then they might not want to fund 3dmark anymore because the user base they are paying to market to won't be there....but maybe just in a worse case scenario
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I think ATI and Nvidia are starting to see that already, and thats why FM are upset at Kyle.
 
Well, i tend not to pay too much attention to 3dmark, or HardOCP's rants on the subject. To me, it seems kind of like an astroturf vs. grass type of argument, and you don't see the makers of astroturf suing anyone that doesn't like astroturf.

IMO 3dmark isn't useless, but it isn't terribly useful either

What it is useful for:
-seeing some cool next gen style eye candy upon release
-as a benchmark for seeing if a tweak or change to your system made a difference
-as a system and video abuser for burn in.

what it is marginally useful for:
-comparing performance between two similarly configured machines to see if the performance you are getting is normal or "just you"


what it is bad for:
-making predictive statements about a system's performance in anything other than 3dmark.

Especially with newer eye candy relying on shader programs. BAck when game performance was a matter of shoving textured polygons at the screen as fast as possible, there wasn't all that much room for variation in how you get it there. These days, with all the new and different eye candy coming down to shader programs, the odds of futuremarks algorithms being representative of shipping products for the next year is slim to none.

Case in point: far cry had rippling heat haze that my machine barely notices. Doom3 had levels with lots of rippling heat haze in the hell levels, and it made a huge dent in FPS. full spectrum warrior does a rippling heat haze as a large environmentl effect to simulate mirage. It isn't really a performance hit, but it doesn't seem to play well with AA and AF.

So tell me, which method and algortihm for rippling heat haze is 3dmark testing for me? It certainly isn't doing all three, and thus is going to be bad at telling me how those games perform.
 
I imagine Kyle and company are laughing all the way to the bank. It’s baseless attacks like these that really raise the hit rates (and therefore the advertiser visibility) for the [H]. This has the potential to be even better than the Phantom for ‘idiotic lawsuit’ comedy.
 
Summoner said:
I think Futuremark realises that the gaming community isnt buying into the "value" that its software offers anymore, and its trying to hush up anyone who tells it like it is. People are using the free version and then moving on to other things - theres so many better things to put your $20 to these days.
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I'd much rather spend my $20 on my girl instead of spending it on Bungholiomark2005 cause the points i score with her actually mean something haha.
 
Nomad said:
Hey Kyle - care to share the email address of this fool so that some of us can send him our opinion directly?
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If kyle does that it will be in poor taste and probably proves FMs point.
 
Just plain dumb, I never purchased one of their products and I can say now that I never will. Personally I think 3DMark05 is worest rendition yet..5 demos? Thats all? What happen to the other tests like fill rate, pixel shader, sound test, etc. Of course in the end it's all null and void because 3DMark isn't a benchmark on how future games will play.
 
I don't think some of us agree that 3dmark is useless. i think MOST of us KNOW 3dmark is useless. it shows us nothing in REAL GAME proformance. wow it's a pretty benchmark and nothing more. means jack shit. wow i got a score of 5220..yey who cares?. no one. wow ya got a score. does that mean anything for real games? nope sure doesn't. anyways i am ready with my guns to defend [H]ardOCP to the end. btw futuremark. your furture has a bad mark in it already from past tools. also you guys need to stfu. :D
 
SCREW EM is my response :)
That's a crop of bullsh!t from 3DMark, I plan on boycotting them and all their software till they formally apologize.
[H]ard|ocp is a review site, all content on review sites is the opinion of the REVIEWER. It's like getting a new mobo to review and the company says "if you point out any flaws in this motherboard or say you don't like anything about it then we'll sue you"

I agree with whoever said we should mass boycott, gives me more hard drive space :D
 
I suggest a name change is in order for futuremark which is more in order with their current way of thinking:

lawyermark 2001

lawyermark 2001SE: SUE EM

Lawyermark 2003: Litigation Edition

Lawyermark 2005: John Cochrin ate my vid card

:D Im becoming less and less tolerent of companies that sue thinking it will help them IMPROVE there name.... Gee after reading the front page today, did anyone here the toliet flushing?? :p
 
Kyle,once again, you are THE MAN! ;)

I love the fact that you can throw this idiotic e-mail right back at this guy. Who does he think he is threatening you over an opinion you have every right to publish? It's called "Free Speech", as you said, and obviously these guys are too third world to have ever heard of this. They owe you an apology at the very least for threatening you.

I mean seriously, I get around 5300 in that damn benchmark and it means squat as far as gaming. 3dMark is just another benchmarker's Ladder system and a good way to work some kinks out of a system. While the demos are cool, it would be nicer if those games actually existed in the first place.

So I say "Damn the Man". I am not using this crap anymore. And to think I actually considered buying it for future benchmarking of systems on my website.

STAY [H]ard!
 
"3DMark05 sucks as a benchmark, but it sure is pretty and great fun to watch."

true.dat

Tell futuremark to jump in a lake. Opinion is a valid form of expression in the US.
 
ROFL Kyle, I just couldn't agree with you more on what you said! :D That's hands down the best reply or comment anybody could have. 3DMark needs to get a clue!
 
If every active member of the forums emails that PR guy at his email on the main page, 50000000000 emails in his inbox may tell him something!

I'm emailing him, not sure bout everyone else.
 
i think futuremark needs to formally apologize...cause when i get home from work, i am getting rid of all my 3dmark bullshit. :D
 
I bought 3dmark03....I will not be buying any of their products anymore and encourage others to do the same. I come here for help and advice and I don't want that to end. I'm glad hardocp is taking a stance on this. I will save my money and benchmarking for in game demo's. piss off futuremark.
 
I have $20 burning a hole in my pocket. I'm going to either spend it on getting the 3DMark 05 version just to noodle around with, OR I'm going to donate it to [H] to help pay for any FREAKING DUMB ASS lawsuits that 3DMark files against them.

I'm calling for Tero Sarkkinen's resignation.
 
Man, why does everyone cry slander when they dont like a review.

if every review was slander then hollywood would make a fortune for every review that expressed their opinion on a movie with a negative review
 
raz-0 said:
Well, i tend not to pay too much attention to 3dmark, or HardOCP's rants on the subject. To me, it seems kind of like an astroturf vs. grass type of argument, and you don't see the makers of astroturf suing anyone that doesn't like astroturf.

IMO 3dmark isn't useless, but it isn't terribly useful either

What it is useful for:
-seeing some cool next gen style eye candy upon release
-as a benchmark for seeing if a tweak or change to your system made a difference
-as a system and video abuser for burn in.

what it is marginally useful for:
-comparing performance between two similarly configured machines to see if the performance you are getting is normal or "just you"


what it is bad for:
-making predictive statements about a system's performance in anything other than 3dmark.

Especially with newer eye candy relying on shader programs. BAck when game performance was a matter of shoving textured polygons at the screen as fast as possible, there wasn't all that much room for variation in how you get it there. These days, with all the new and different eye candy coming down to shader programs, the odds of futuremarks algorithms being representative of shipping products for the next year is slim to none.

Case in point: far cry had rippling heat haze that my machine barely notices. Doom3 had levels with lots of rippling heat haze in the hell levels, and it made a huge dent in FPS. full spectrum warrior does a rippling heat haze as a large environmentl effect to simulate mirage. It isn't really a performance hit, but it doesn't seem to play well with AA and AF.

So tell me, which method and algortihm for rippling heat haze is 3dmark testing for me? It certainly isn't doing all three, and thus is going to be bad at telling me how those games perform.
Click to expand...

well said on all accounts
 
mindabsence said:
If every active member of the forums emails that PR guy at his email on the main page, 50000000000 emails in his inbox may tell him something!

I'm emailing him, not sure bout everyone else.
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I'd much rather get ahold of his personal home e-mail address. :)
 
hulksterjoe said:
Man, why does everyone cry slander when they dont like a review.

if every review was slander then hollywood would make a fortune for every review that expressed their opinion on a movie with a negative review
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it seems [H]ardOCP is a very persuasive and popular with people.
 
Nomad said:
Hey Kyle - care to share the email address of this fool so that some of us can send him our opinion directly?
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simple <firstname>@futuremark.com

Allnighte
 
Shot 1: So does this mean that that Phantom will ship with 3dmark as a pre-install program.

I can't stand this, courts are tied up enough with bull crap, I think that using leagal bulleying is just horrible and possibly should come with a peanilty.

Here is what I see. 3dmark isn't a bench mark that could answer questions like will xyz game run fine on my system. is xyz rendering engine or API for that matter better for my system then xyz. We can take these questions to OSes as well and on and on. Will 3dmark function as a bench mark: Yes*. Although a bench mark can be just that (A mark on a bench or a work area that all things brought to the work area can be measured by) it is very dishearting to know that in its recient and many of its past offerings there are ways to artificially increase one's score. Making it very hard to faithfully answer the questions is my system configured with xyz at least as good as Jonny's with the same hardware down the street.

Its not like the [H] is passing around baseless claims or acting like some Fox News channel caster, or even looking for weapons of mass destruction. They are speaking their opinion and opinions based on testing and discovery, which is exactly why I read them everyday.

I was thinking about downloading the newst 3dmark and running it, but I can't get an answer to the question that I need most. Just what is a 3dmark and what does it mean when I want to play game xyz. In my unique position I don't care about tweaking my system to whatever level, I just want to know what will be my experience playing different games, and for that I will just do what I've done sice I've gotten broadband... Download that games demo.
 
Futuremark has done nothing for me as a PC game enthusiast.
Ever.

If ATi and Nvidia took the time and money they invested into Futuremark Applications, and applied all their efforts to improve game performance and quality then I would be better off.

With Futuremark now attacking one of my favorite PC enthusiast websites, it's clear that they are doing no one a favor. Unless you count the money they are making off their product.

Magazines and websites need to stop using 3dmark as a baseline for Video card performance; it's that simple.
 
Kyle, thanks for keeping the members of the [H] informed. It really helps build the sense of community and belonging to the website. Its hard to find that kind of dedication these days. We are behind you!
 
burningrave101 said:
I'd much rather get ahold of his personal home e-mail address. :)
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I wanna get ahold of his personal cell phone number and house number. and also his home adderss... :D
 
creedAMD said:
Today, I will uninstall 3dmark until there has been a formal apology. This is ridiculous.
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Sounds good, I had the same idea as I was reading the front page post, as a matter of fact, both 2003 and 2005 versions are now ono-existent on my system.

Far Cry and Doom3 are much better benchmarks anyways...
 
I am still trying to find a joystick that is compatible with 3dmark! How can something be so great if it doesn't even detect the most popular joysticks?

WTF :MAD:!
 
Poor Futuremark, can't take the heat? GET OUT OF THE KITCHEN!

Funny how they cry and complain about a site that reviews products, did they expect to get coddled b/c they're Futuremark. Is that supposed to make them special or something? I'm with alot of others that think 3dmark05 sucks. Cut us out of all the tests 03 and 01 gave us and expect us to be happy about it.

Those lawyers can go jump in a deep cold lake along with the rest of futuremark as far as I'm concerned. Good ol' US consititution.

I'd just assume give a homeless man on the corner $20 then give my money to futuremark. Their program isn't worth squat.

After reading the frontpage I'm also removing these programs from my system.
 
mindabsence said:
If every active member of the forums emails that PR guy at his email on the main page, 50000000000 emails in his inbox may tell him something!

I'm emailing him, not sure bout everyone else.
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I am formulating an email right now.
 
I was really unimpressed with 3dmark 05. It isn't even cool to look at, it is just some mediocre 3D engine programmed to give bad performance. And you can add nearly 1,000 points to your score if you have an nVidia card just by using the 66.81 drivers... the scores are meaningless, it is just a video card marketing masturbation tool.

Aquamark 3 seems to be alot less prone to colossal driver cheating by the card makers, and at least seems to correlate somewhat with Doom 3 or Far Cry performance. Maybe that's because it uses an actual DX9 game engine, instead of some boring-looking standalone turd engine that just hasn't been optimized properly.
 
Nomad said:
I am formulating an email right now.
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Plz show us what you will write him :D

i going to be sending emails to him tonight after work with my friends.
they hate 3dmark just as much as i do.
 
creedAMD said:
I am still trying to find a joystick that is compatible with 3dmark! How can something be so great if it doesn't even detect the most popular joysticks?

WTF :MAD:!
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You do know that 3DMark is a benchmark and not a game.... right?
You sit back and watch while it runs tests,,,, you don't control it like a game.
 
3D Mark has been useful to me in that I might glance at it and use it to compare systems with identical video cards but different motherboards, or different processors. But between video cards it is kind of useless, and in-game benchies can generally do just as good a job in the situation I mentioned above.

My first reaction was "C'mon, you guys are getting yourselves sued again..." but then I realized you didn't say anything wrong, and you're allowed to have an opinion. I've never used 3DMark and now I probably never will. Don't waste time yelling at people who don't like your product - fix it!
 
Futuremark will sue. Why? Because the lawyers have run out of people to sue and have nothing else to do.
In the past, they used to sue doctors, but they're broke pakistanis not worth going after.
Now they sue each other over slander claims.
 
mindabsence said:
You do know that 3DMark is a benchmark and not a game.... right?
You sit back and watch while it runs tests,,,, you don't control it like a game.
Click to expand...


but but but but...my keyboard works for it. why not my joystick?....i wanna fly the boat...but i need my joystick :D
 
I suggest that if they were seriously looking into some sort of legal complaint and being advised by their attorney that a) he would not have issued you those "warning" emails in vernacular or b) they don't have a very good attorney.

Feel free to criticize them all you want. You are well within your rights to do so.
 
mindabsence said:
You do know that 3DMark is a benchmark and not a game.... right?
You sit back and watch while it runs tests,,,, you don't control it like a game.
Click to expand...

But it picks up my system fine! I try to shoot, but it acts like I didn't put a quarter in! :wtf:madderthanhell:
 
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