Anand re-examines Conroe benchmarks

[BLiTzKRiEG]

While not to be rude or anything but your pointing to a cpu that doesn't exist its pure vapor and saying this will beat Conroe. LOL Keep in mind I am in an intel forum . Not an AMD forum so There's noway I can be trolling.

First, where did I "point" to a CPU in my post... the AM2 is not vapoware...

90nm June:
http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/02/21/a_look_at_amds_socket_am2_platform/
And again:
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2587

Its exactly as I was saying in my first post... the AM2 will be released on the 90nm technology in June with the arrival of DDR-800. And then later after the release of the conroe in the Fall...

Finally, noone said you were trolling... But to make a post that says "Post a link or walk away" does not warrant someone's post to be ignored simply because they do not have a link.

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=30216

I do believe sapphire will call there card a PE.

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=30254

I wonder what these guys will call their O/C version

You do believe? This is where your "Post a comment or walk away" thread was hypocritical... a link to show ATi will allow its partners to overclock does not imply x1900XTXPE... especially not after this was released several months ago:

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=28719

But thats for another forum...

You didn't understand what I was trying to say. I was talking in the pro-Intel way, in other words trying to say: It's perfectly reasonable to compare Conroe with X2 Because X2 will be the Conroe's competition upon release.

It is not perfectly comparable as the AM2 on the 90nm will be what is out for AMD at the time of the Conroe release, so since neither is out, you ARE comparing Tomorrow to today...

Don't worry, they get it, they just don't want to admit defeat. As if they are AMD LOL!

Its not about admitting defeat... Its about educating you that you are bragging about a product that is 6-7 months from public release as if you already own one. And the fact that it shows Next Gen vs Current Gen... There isn't a doubt in my mind that the conroe probably will out perform the 90nm AM2 processors, but when AM2 hits 65nm, I am willing to bet that they are neck and neck again.

 

[Narisatu]

Its not about admitting defeat... Its about educating you that you are bragging about a product that is 6-7 months from public release as if you already own one. And the fact that it shows Next Gen vs Current Gen... There isn't a doubt in my mind that the conroe probably will out perform the 90nm AM2 processors, but when AM2 hits 65nm, I am willing to bet that they are neck and neck again.

And how will AM2 at 65 nm compete with Conroe? Im sorry, but i highly doubt the ability to up clocks at 65nm will make up for the performance defecit that Intel will have built by that time. The fastest processor from AMD that will likely be out, will be a 2.8 ghz variant of a Dual core FX (probably the FX-62), unless of course AMD has some insane hand to play that they have been able to keep under EXTREMELY tight wraps. As far as we know right now, AM2 performs no better than 939, the only difference is the socket type, and the fact it uses DDR2.. infact, Anandtech has reported that AM2 might actually be SLOWER. Couple all of this with the fact that the 2.66ghz conroe that was used in the compairision is a MIDRANGE chip, not thier Highend, XE chip, there is no doubt that, on release, until AMD can get K10 (which doesnt exsist to my knowledge, though im sure they are working on that) Intel will have the better chip.

 

[$BangforThe$]

First, where did I "point" to a CPU in my post... the AM2 is not vapoware...

90nm June:
http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/02/21/a_look_at_amds_socket_am2_platform/
And again:
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2587

Its exactly as I was saying in my first post... the AM2 will be released on the 90nm technology in June with the arrival of DDR-800. And then later after the release of the conroe in the Fall...

Finally, noone said you were trolling... But to make a post that says "Post a link or walk away" does not warrant someone's post to be ignored simply because they do not have a link.



You do believe? This is where your "Post a comment or walk away" thread was hypocritical... a link to show ATi will allow its partners to overclock does not imply x1900XTXPE... especially not after this was released several months ago:

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=28719

But thats for another forum...



It is not perfectly comparable as the AM2 on the 90nm will be what is out for AMD at the time of the Conroe release, so since neither is out, you ARE comparing Tomorrow to today...




Its not about admitting defeat... Its about educating you that you are bragging about a product that is 6-7 months from public release as if you already own one. And the fact that it shows Next Gen vs Current Gen... There isn't a doubt in my mind that the conroe probably will out perform the 90nm AM2 processors, but when AM2 hits 65nm, I am willing to bet that they are neck and neck again.

On the X1900xtxpe will wait for the release.

I didn't relize that you were referring to the AM2 as next gen. for AMD.

I have seen reviews of this non-vapor product .I for one that it sucked but you go ahead and tie your horse to that hitching post .

 

[BLiTzKRiEG]

And how will AM2 at 65 nm compete with Conroe? Im sorry, but i highly doubt the ability to up clocks at 65nm will make up for the performance defecit that Intel will have built by that time. The fastest processor from AMD that will likely be out, will be a 2.8 ghz variant of a Dual core FX (probably the FX-62), unless of course AMD has some insane hand to play that they have been able to keep under EXTREMELY tight wraps. As far as we know right now, AM2 performs no better than 939, the only difference is the socket type, and the fact it uses DDR2.. infact, Anandtech has reported that AM2 might actually be SLOWER. Couple all of this with the fact that the 2.66ghz conroe that was used in the compairision is a MIDRANGE chip, not thier Highend, XE chip, there is no doubt that, on release, until AMD can get K10 (which doesnt exsist to my knowledge, though im sure they are working on that) Intel will have the better chip.

If you look at the anandtech link, the FX-62 is slated for release in Q2 06, right along with the AM2's most likely... and the 2.66GHz conroe is not midrange when it is 2nd in line to the XE processor... Midrange would be just that, the middle priced processor.

As for the AM2 going 65nm, you don't know how its going to perform because you haven't seen it... dropping waffer size is a HUGE step... If you think that going from 90nm to 65nm is not enough to make up a performance gap, please reference the 7900 series GPUor the shrink on CPUs from 110nm to 90nm... The shrink from 110nm to 90nm on the 7900 series gained about 25% across the boards in performance. Did you miss the performance increase from the AthlonXP line over to the Athlon64 line when s939 was introduced? Overclocking boosted even more.... So do not shrug off a die shrink like it is no big deal, I think you are stuck on the idea of going from Northwood to Prescott, simply because intel's drop to 90nm was a flop does not mean it doesn't work. Also, it is not hard to keep something under wraps that is several months away from being released... Just because Intel likes to splurge their product out as soon as they get a working batch does not mean that everyone else is required to follow suit.

 

[Narisatu]

I never said it would flop, but i dont think that it will be enough to close the gap Intel will have greated.. And with processor Prices from 100 to 1000 dollars.. a 500 something dollar processor is 'middle range.' A 500 dollar proc beating a 1000 dollar proc? thats pretty much mid-range beating High End. Granted, difference technologies, but, a die-shrink is doubtful to make up for a 20% increase in performance.

 

[$BangforThe$]

Clock for Clock its 30% anand preview should overall 24% increase . Run conroe @ 2.8 and fsb@ 800 and 30%+ is more tham likely . Do you think Intel should Its hole hand This is Texas Draw poker and only table cards have been seen theirs 2 aces showing and intels hole cards are a pair Aces. AMD seems to be holding a Joker and a deuce in the hole. Also you keep saying 6-7 months . Were its been indictated thats its 4 months for Conroe and Earlier for Woodcrest . And reviewers will have these cpu's a month in advance.

More than likely it will be 2months for reviews of Woodcrest.

Conroe will probably reviewed when Intel sends out the 965 chipset for reviews. The badaxe cards were nice like the Conroe preview used But the BADASS M/B with conroe will be much better. This will be the first time ever that I will use an Intel M/B as I want the Total Intel Badass platform

 

[SSE4]

Personally I'm pleased with these results. The most interesting notion presented to us by the typical incompetent AMD fan is that it's "Old tech vs new tech." What did they really think AMD64 vs Pentium 4 was all about? That was hardly new technology. Prescott wasn't really new. You all seemed so supportive when it was your new architecture vs Intel's old, for sure, but when it's the other way you're all smirking ignorantly like embracing performance gains in CPUs is a bad thing. You're all so twisted by your zealous loyalty to one brand over the other that you miss the entire point - for true enthusiasts, not posers, the benefit is in the performance. We don't care who makes it - we're power users, and as such, we go where the power is. Sure, some of us have our loyalty to one brand or the other, but for the most part we go "Damn, guess I gotta buy an Intel for my next upgrade now!"

So many AMD fans are guilty of this - so AMD's old architecture is facing a new one, so? Now you know how Intel people felt with the Pentium 4. And how you all felt so snug with your sizeable, but comparable performance gains from your fancy AMD64s. Some even say "Gaming isn't everything" now - I can just see all these people getting nervous and I don't understand why. What's so bad about realizing that the Conroe beats the AMD64 in every way, and that AM2 is a farcry? Much like what everyone hoped for Prescott? To be honest, it's ironic to see things going this way - but I really hope AMD has something up it's sleeve, because although I like Intel, performance increases from both ends make us all win - and competition makes the world go round. I just find it weird how everyone is so uptight about it... Most Intel users are just glad to finally see the performance crown come back their way for once - and AMD users seem nearly appalled - as if the impossible has happened and that there must be a mistake. Sorry, no mistake - I mean how long as it been since Intel introduced a new architecture? I'm glad to see some change. It's not fun having one processor dominate another - I'm happy when they're both so close, that you start to see some competitive pricing. So I really hope AMD has something waiting... But all bars held, I think Intel deserves it's time in the sun, it's going to deserve the crown for a bit - to have AMD come out and instantly thwart Intel with some kind of miracle architecture is not only remote, but it wouldn't be very exciting.

Outside of some of the most moronic things I've yet to see from AMD fans (And I've seen lots of stupid stuff in my time - let's not be biased though, Intel guys are just as stupid. But since AMD is on the winning side right now, they have more of those "confused" guys who go where everyone else is - we call them sheep) these benchmarks are welcome. I don't care for their absolute accuracy - to me it's a guideline and it gives me something to look forward to. At this point, I'm just glad to have some tangible numbers in my hands - this way we all have a general idea of what to expect. Conroe is looking as good as I had hoped. It's still a long ways off but I'm just glad we're not still beating around the bush speculating so much - at least now, speculating has some numbers. Now if only AMD had a bit more for us...

That said, yeah it's 4 months away. It seems like pointing that out is also an AMD fan tactic they use to discourage people excited about the Conroe. I'll be excited about the possibilities of a new processor all I want - especially when I have numbers indicating that it may just stomp the competition.

 

[1c3d0g]

Exactly. You can't be on top forever. There will come a time again when Intel will go down, and AMD will be on top again, and then down again, and so on.

 

[Donnie27]

Its not about admitting defeat... Its about educating you that you are bragging about a product that is 6-7 months from public release as if you already own one. And the fact that it shows Next Gen vs Current Gen... There isn't a doubt in my mind that the conroe probably will out perform the 90nm AM2 processors, but when AM2 hits 65nm, I am willing to bet that they are neck and neck again.

Sorry I missed this one. Jet-Eye AMDroid mind tricks only work on AMDriods. Many folks predict July for the Sales of Conroe. Some folks are waiting for another April Fool's Day launch.

You guys don't educate anyone. I'm hearing some AMD folks talk of waiting until next year while many of the same folks say this summer is a long way off.

Repost!
Intel Conroe
E4200 2MB 1.60GHz 800MHz FSB Q4 $169. us

E6200 2MB 1.60GHz 1066MHz FSB Q4 $179. us
E6300 2MB 1.86GHz 1066MHz FSB Q3 $209. us
E6400 2MB 2.13GHz 1066MHz FSB Q3 $239. us
E6500 2MB 2.40GHz 1066MHz FSB Q4 $269. us

E6600 4MB 2.40GHz 1066MHz FSB Q3 $309. us (65 Watts)
E6700 4MB 2.67GHz 1066MHz FSB Q3 $529. us
E6800 4MB 2.93GHz 1066MHz FSB Q4 $749. us
E6900 4MB 3.20GHz 1066MHz FSB Q4 $969. us

Intel Conroe XE
E8000 4MB 3.33GHz 1333MHz FSB Q4 $1199. us (95 Watts)

So as this shows, 2.66GHz is very much a Mid-Range Processor and NOT 2nd to an XE as you're trying to say. Two other models in between on this roadmap.

,,,and the 2.66GHz conroe is not midrange when it is 2nd in line to the XE processor... Midrange would be just that, the middle priced processor.

These Processors cover the whole range and it's E6600 or bust for me. At prices they are well worth the wait. You'll be able to get AMD procs much cheaper so you should be happy! might also pick up a then cheap X2 to replace my 3500+.

 

[empoy]

i hope everyone realizes that Conroe is gonna be out in 4months time.

 

[BLiTzKRiEG]

Sorry I missed this one. Jet-Eye AMDroid mind tricks only work on AMDriods. Many folks predict July for the Sales of Conroe. Some folks are waiting for another April Fool's Day launch.

You guys don't educate anyone. I'm hearing some AMD folks talk of waiting until next year while many of the same folks say this summer is a long way off.

Repost!
Intel Conroe
E4200 2MB 1.60GHz 800MHz FSB Q4 $169. us

E6200 2MB 1.60GHz 1066MHz FSB Q4 $179. us
E6300 2MB 1.86GHz 1066MHz FSB Q3 $209. us
E6400 2MB 2.13GHz 1066MHz FSB Q3 $239. us
E6500 2MB 2.40GHz 1066MHz FSB Q4 $269. us

E6600 4MB 2.40GHz 1066MHz FSB Q3 $309. us (65 Watts)
E6700 4MB 2.67GHz 1066MHz FSB Q3 $529. us
E6800 4MB 2.93GHz 1066MHz FSB Q4 $749. us
E6900 4MB 3.20GHz 1066MHz FSB Q4 $969. us

Intel Conroe XE
E8000 4MB 3.33GHz 1333MHz FSB Q4 $1199. us (95 Watts)

So as this shows, 2.66GHz is very much a Mid-Range Processor and NOT 2nd to an XE as you're trying to say. Two other models in between on this roadmap.



These Processors cover the whole range and it's E6600 or bust for me. At prices they are well worth the wait. You'll be able to get AMD procs much cheaper so you should be happy! might also pick up a then cheap X2 to replace my 3500+.

First, in prior posts on the board, they did not include the 2.93 and 3.20 conroes in the price... Showing the 2.66 as second in line and someone had the XE listed at 3.0... and Second, $529 is not a mid-range price for a CPU... yes, it is a middle performing conroe CPU, but not pricewise...

As for my "Jet-Eye AMDroid mind tricks"... Who is trying to dupe anyone? I mean are you seriously expecting Intel to say on July 1st "OMG ITS QUARTER 3 RELEASE THEM NOW!"... Use some logic please... Quarter 3 falls anywhere between 4 to 6 months from now... and even with your price post... ONLY HALF WILL BE RELEASED THEN... 4/8 conroes released in Q3... and then the other half in Q4... I failed to see where I was "tricking" people when I said 6-7 months for the conroe? If I'm not mistaken, 6 months still falls inside of quarter 3, while 7 months gets into Q4 where the other half of the conroes is expected to released... porbably right at the end of 7 months, just in time for the holidays... But apparently you missed this as reasonable logic must be very confusing... Thanks for proving me...well... right?

 

[empoy]

now the issue is not Conroe's performance but the release date hahahahaha

 

[BLiTzKRiEG]

now the issue is not Conroe's performance but the release date hahahahaha

No kidding...

 

[Donnie27]

i hope everyone realizes that Conroe is gonna be out in 4months time.

July is what I'm hearing. I think the Green Guys are hoping it is longer before they start getting spanked. Many folks here act as if they are AMD themselves. As you can already see, just as I told you on the other thread, the new call is wait until next year. Or some variation there of.I saw guys who upgraded AMD processors 3 times in 18 months now say getting one for over a 12 month period is too much and not worth it. This even as the performance of this upgrade will be 20% over the 5 to 10% of the other upgrades. It will also cost less than my bud paying $895 and $865 for a 4800+ and FX55 respectively at the time of their purchase. He also upgraded RAM and Motherboard as well.

 

[perplex]

Will we be seeing more Conroe benchmarks from reviewers but this time from given samples? So they can make the systems themselves and eliminate all doubt.

 

[Narisatu]

First, in prior posts on the board, they did not include the 2.93 and 3.20 conroes in the price... Showing the 2.66 as second in line and someone had the XE listed at 3.0... and Second, $529 is not a mid-range price for a CPU... yes, it is a middle performing conroe CPU, but not pricewise...

huh? How is that not a mid-range processor, price wise? top-of-the-line = 1000+, low end = around 100.. that puts 400-600 as middle of the road...

($169+$179+$209+$239+$269+$309+$529+$749+$969+$1199)/9=535.333... oops.. im sorry.. im 6 dollars off...

Mean = 492 (roughly)
Median = 289 (but intel makes more lower end chips than higher end..)

 

[empoy]

early Q3 Conroe will start volume production in one of Intel's plants in Southeast Asia.
its next door neighbor will be producing the AM2s.

by mid Q3 Conroe units will be available in the retail channel. Early production units will be gobbled up by Dell.

 

[Rocco123]

Do you think Intel should Its hole hand This is Texas Draw poker and only table cards have been seen theirs 2 aces showing and intels hole cards are a pair Aces. AMD seems to be holding a Joker and a deuce in the hole

Sorry, but I have to bring this quote up, but this is probably the dumbest thing I've heard someone say here.

Can you offer some insight into why you think AMD doesn't "have a hand"?

 

[empoy]

Can you offer some insight into why you think AMD doesn't "have a hand"?

AMD doesn't have a lot of 65nm equipments in Fab36. Intel ate up the supplier's inventory.

IBM's (AMD's partner) 65nm process tech might be encountering some issues.

 

[BLiTzKRiEG]

huh? How is that not a mid-range processor, price wise? top-of-the-line = 1000+, low end = around 100.. that puts 400-600 as middle of the road...

($169+$179+$209+$239+$269+$309+$529+$749+$969+$1199)/9=535.333... oops.. im sorry.. im 6 dollars off...

Mean = 492 (roughly)
Median = 289 (but intel makes more lower end chips than higher end..)

I'd like to congratulate you on your 6th grade math skills... the median is where your target customers are going to be at, not the average... In statistics, they teach you to ignore the outrageous anomalies... so the $529 is pushing the AVERAGE consumer's budget to the extreme... even moreso than the 749 and up prices... Those figures throw the final way off, not to mention the very very very low number of purchases of those CPUs. Its the same way as the FX series... You don't count the cream of the crop CPUs as they are such a small percentage of the overall CPUs. Your mid-range CPUs are going to be the $239-$269 CPUs... If you dont believe me, go look at how many more people own 3.0 or 3.2 Pentium 4's as opposed to the 3.6's and up (the actual CPU, not the overclocked marks)... same with the AMD64 line... Look at how many people own a 3200+ or 3500+ as opposed to a 4000+ San Diego, or the dual core line... Your mid range processor isnt the average of an entire family of CPUs... If thats the case... the mid-range price of the AMD line of AMD64 processors (X2 included) ~$462... If you are trying to tell me that the mid-range price of today's processor (by your logic) is $462, you need to re-assess the market... $462 is going to net you a very very very well off processor, not some mid-range CPU used for email, the web, and occassional gaming.

 

[visaris]

AMD doesn't have a lot of 65nm equipments in Fab36. Intel ate up the supplier's inventory.

Totally untrue. Where you you people come up with this crap? AMD is using FAB36 and it's 65-nm equipment right now to manufacture and sell AMD64 cores. The only thing is, AMD is using 90nm design rules to build 90nm chips. The equipment was built for 65nm or larger, and AMD will switch as soon as the 65nm design rules can be validated and yeilds are up.

--

And why is it you Intel people can't compare current product to current product? So many people have complained about this, one would think you would get it by now. I don't care about AM2 or Conroe right now:

• Intel promised 10GHz P4s.

• Intel promised the Itanium would take over the CPU industry with amazing performace.

• When AMD64 was first comming out years ago, there was a huge delay.

• The first stepping of Opteron CPUs had some errata that would cause the whole system to lockup.

• I really could go on all day long with this list.

We all know that every promise and product planned went off without a hitch

Honestly, I totally ignore any Intel or AMD fanb()y's post involving the performance of AM2 or Conroe, because it's all baseless speculation. The point is that you are all wasting your time, doing nothing but trying to jack your post count up.

Right now, all I care about is the fact that AMD is kicking Intel's ass. Six months from now I may be saying the opposite.

The point is that a new product is always just about to come out. If you wait to buy, you'll end up in the exact same situation 6-months from now. Because of this, it is always best to only compare current, shipping products.

 

[BLiTzKRiEG]

The point is that a new product is always just about to come out. If you wait to buy, you'll end up in the exact same situation 6-months from now. Because of this, it is always best to only compare current, shipping products.

Amen, and thank you... This was the original point of my posts in here.

 

[SSE4]

Totally untrue. Where you you people come up with this crap? AMD is using FAB36 and it's 65-nm equipment right now to manufacture and sell AMD64 cores. The only thing is, AMD is using 90nm design rules to build 90nm chips. The equipment was built for 65nm or larger, and AMD will switch as soon as the 65nm design rules can be validated and yeilds are up.

--

And why is it you Intel people can't compare current product to current product? So many people have complained about this, one would think you would get it by now. I don't care about AM2 or Conroe right now:

• Intel promised 10GHz P4s.

• Intel promised the Itanium would take over the CPU industry with amazing performace.

• When AMD64 was first comming out years ago, there was a huge delay.

• The first stepping of Opteron CPUs had some errata that would cause the whole system to lockup.

• I really could go on all day long with this list.

We all know that every promise and product planned went off without a hitch

Honestly, I totally ignore any Intel or AMD fanb()y's post involving the performance of AM2 or Conroe, because it's all baseless speculation. The point is that you are all wasting your time, doing nothing but trying to jack your post count up.

Right now, all I care about is the fact that AMD is kicking Intel's ass. Six months from now I may be saying the opposite.

The point is that a new product is always just about to come out. If you wait to buy, you'll end up in the exact same situation 6-months from now. Because of this, it is always best to only compare current, shipping products.

Not everyone has the money to run around buying up stuff. You're basically telling people to buy immediately without any regard to future consideration. The problem is, we all know AMD is kicking Intel's ass right now - but some of us choose to say, "Hey, Intel is going to be kicking AMD's ass 4 months from now, so maybe I'll hold off my upgrade until then..." What you're telling us to do is say "Hey, AMD is winning right now, but I know Conroe will probably beat the shit out of my current AMD build, but who cares? I've got money and I should throw it away carelessly."

If it weren't for some issues along with some peculiar success for AMD/Pentium M (Amongst other things) we may very well see a 10GHz Pentium today, lest we forget leakage...

Intel guys don't want to compare current product to current product - because Conroe is the architectural upgrade they've been waiting for - lest you've forgotten NetBurst's age and in light of its current competition. Enthusiasts are excited because the Conroe beats AMD64 - the point of technology is to look ahead, and not at the current moment - we wouldn't get anywhere if we didn't think ahead. And the Conroe isn't baseless speculation... Unless we've all been fooled by the benchmarks, which is a possibility I suppose, but it doesn't seem logical. If it turns out to be crap, we'll know when it comes out right? So why go through the trouble of getting everyone all excited when Intel knows that we'll be looking for the real-time benchmarks when the product launches anyway? What Conroe was in those benchmarks is, most likely, what we can expect in the months to come.

For AM2 - AMD users are waiting to see what an upgrade could have in store for them soon - there's nothing wrong with getting excited over upgrade potential a few months down the road...

The fact of the matter is, people are excited about the new technology coming out - it doesn't matter if you're "Intel" or "AMD," what matters is the technology itself. Calling them !!!!!!s just makes you judgmental. You're telling everyone to not be excited about future advancement and performance increases - what gives? We're all just supposed to ignore roadmaps and sit around like a bunch of ignorant pricks, spending our money on a processor we know will get stomped on like a Mexican circus whore in 4 months time. You're telling people who were waiting for the improvements of Presler to quit being asses and purchase an 8XX - when they had good reason to believe (Through speculation) that the 65nm (Amongst other things) of the Presler would yield a significant improvement, and as seen by temps and overclocking, it most certainly did. But in your world - we should all have smoldering mathematical lumps of molten lava in our computers right now - lest we !!!!!!s even think of upgrading in the future. Or like those who waited for Venice - complete fools, was the wait worth it? Oh of course for many - but not in your books, no sir.

The point is, we're at the "end" of the AMD64 reign, and we might be stepping into the reign of Conroe. Why would you buy the "latest" technology right when it's about to get beaten? Whereas when you wait and buy Conroe, you're getting it at it's start - guaranteeing you longer life in your investment.

Let's all buy Willamette P4 systems! ... 4 months before Northwood comes out. I don't know about you, but I'd feel pretty bad about my purchase at that point, and I don't think I'd be the only one.

 

[Donnie27]

First, in prior posts on the board, they did not include the 2.93 and 3.20 conroes in the price... Showing the 2.66 as second in line and someone had the XE listed at 3.0... and Second, $529 is not a mid-range price for a CPU... yes, it is a middle performing conroe CPU, but not pricewise...

As for my "Jet-Eye AMDroid mind tricks"... Who is trying to dupe anyone? I mean are you seriously expecting Intel to say on July 1st "OMG ITS QUARTER 3 RELEASE THEM NOW!"... Use some logic please... Quarter 3 falls anywhere between 4 to 6 months from now... and even with your price post... ONLY HALF WILL BE RELEASED THEN... 4/8 conroes released in Q3... and then the other half in Q4... I failed to see where I was "tricking" people when I said 6-7 months for the conroe? If I'm not mistaken, 6 months still falls inside of quarter 3, while 7 months gets into Q4 where the other half of the conroes is expected to released... porbably right at the end of 7 months, just in time for the holidays... But apparently you missed this as reasonable logic must be very confusing... Thanks for proving me...well... right?

With Price Ranges from $169 to $1149, where do you think the Mid-Range/Price is?

Nothing's confusing at all, I'm just wondering why you're wishing for a shipping date that's farther away? True Geeks want to see great tech ASAP, doesn't matter if it is AMD or Intel, or hell anyone else's.

Plain and simple, July is 4 months away, no need for OMGs or anything else BTW. 7 months is the 4th quarter, NOT the 3rd as you said the first time.. What is this, new math? There is no reasonable logic in bad math. If you'd said 4 to 6 months, you'd have gotten almost no comment from me. Now you twist and spin that much as you like.

Proving you right? That's what causes problems on message boards in the first place. If you stop worrying about being wrong and read the list, you'll see that it is simply a "roadmap" and anyone knows these can change and is NOT set in stone. Most sites, some even friendly to AMD say July.

Unlike the sooner to be released 666 AM2, we know the Price and no need to wait on faster RAM for the tests, sheesh! Who in the hell wants to pay (Buy 90nm EOL test processors with almost untested tech) to beta test for AMD?

 

[empoy]

Totally untrue. Where you you people come up with this crap? AMD is using FAB36 and it's 65-nm equipment right now to manufacture and sell AMD64 cores. The only thing is, AMD is using 90nm design rules to build 90nm chips. The equipment was built for 65nm or larger, and AMD will switch as soon as the 65nm design rules can be validated and yeilds are up.

hahaha obviously I've posted something hurtful to get this reply. how the fuck are you going to fabricate a 90nm chip with 65nm equipment?

please try to use google and look-up Chip Fabrication 101

 

[1c3d0g]

SSE4: thank you for setting that straight. It's good to see there are still people left with their heads firm on their shoulders.

 

[Donnie27]

hahaha obviously I've posted something hurtful to get this reply. how the fuck are you going to fabricate a 90nm chip with 65nm equipment?

please try to use google and look-up Chip Fabrication 101

Not Jedi, but Jet-eye mindtricks, I got that from another poster by the way, not something I made up. Many of them act as if they are AMD personally. They are more loyal than many of AMD's own employees.

 

[Donnie27]

There were way too many great things you said to quote. I want to thank you for posting

I know many Intel folks who said good things about AMD processors. Look in the "Why you continue to buy Intel thread? Many Geeks own AMD and Intel tech. It's the Hardcore AMD folks who say buy only AMD and or you'd be stupid to buy Intel that cause the flame wars. My last A64 build 12-17-05 was a 3500+ for my personal use. Yet, I'm Intel biased. I must admit, I don't like and have NEVER liked Loyal Hardcore AMD followers. So I can see why they turned the other Guy off and why he turned from AMD's products by them.

8x0 with easily beaten by X2.
9x0 closed the Gap but was still beaten.
Conroe is poised to kick the shit out anything AMD has in the next 15 months or so.

So what if AMD will not be able to overcharge the folks who love them the most? Notice how this comment was skipped?

"These Processors cover the whole range and it's E6600 or bust for me. At (these) prices they are well worth the wait. You'll be able to get AMD procs much cheaper so you should be happy! might also pick up a then cheap X2 to replace my 3500+."

"Its exactly as I was saying in my first post... the AM2 will be released on the 90nm technology in June with the arrival of DDR-800. And then later after the release of the conroe in the Fall..."

When does the fall start? July is still in the Summer Last time I checked.

"There isn't a doubt in my mind that the conroe probably will out perform the 90nm AM2 processors, but when AM2 hits 65nm, I am willing to bet that they are neck and neck again."

Intel will more than likely be at 45nm by then, next Summer or Fall.

"and AMD users seem nearly appalled - as if the impossible has happened and that there must be a mistake. Sorry, no mistake - I mean how long as it been since Intel introduced a new architecture? I'm glad to see some change. It's not fun having one processor dominate another - I'm happy when they're both so close, that you start to see some competitive pricing."

Because they're thinking with their heart instead of their mind. They just flat out have some misguided love for AMD. Almost like Football F@ns or something. In this market, Teams suck! I respect Employees and VAR's who post a favorite but if you not being paid, then being loyal is crazy.

 

[BLiTzKRiEG]

Conroe is poised to kick the shit out anything AMD has in the next 15 months or so.

So what if AMD will not be able to overcharge the folks who love them the most? Notice how this comment was skipped?

"These Processors cover the whole range and it's E6600 or bust for me. At (these) prices they are well worth the wait. You'll be able to get AMD procs much cheaper so you should be happy! might also pick up a then cheap X2 to replace my 3500+."

"Its exactly as I was saying in my first post... the AM2 will be released on the 90nm technology in June with the arrival of DDR-800. And then later after the release of the conroe in the Fall..."

When does the fall start? July is still in the Summer Last time I checked.

"There isn't a doubt in my mind that the conroe probably will out perform the 90nm AM2 processors, but when AM2 hits 65nm, I am willing to bet that they are neck and neck again."

Intel will more than likely be at 45nm by then, next Summer or Fall.

Its not the fact of being a diehard AMD fan, or a die hard intel fan... (I own one AMD system as my primary and two intel systems as my secondaries... I go with whats best at the time)... It just kills me that everyone is speculating so far in advance on the intel side... Just like your comment above "for the next 15 months"? Are you that conceded? Do you not think that AMD is not aware of the conroe... You act as if Intel just pulled a rabbit out of the hat and surprised AMD, or that AMD hasnt been working on its own next gen processor. If you think AMD will not have a processor to compete with conroe within the next 15 months, you are being naive...

Now with the release dates... you are speculating again... Quarter 3 covers 3 months of the year... You are boasting and hoping that it is released within the first few hours of quarter 3... Yes I said fall... Why? Because the final month of quarter 3 is the fall, along with almost half of quarter 4... which coincides with all of my posts... So I do not understand why it is you keep pulling up the same topic of when I think conroe will be released... You say that its rumored for July... But thats just it rumor... Until something concrete arises, people can rumor or believe what they want... but as someone said in an earlier post... Dell and other major PC vendors are going to chew up all of the first lines of conroes, leaving the rest of us with little to none until they start mass producing more of them.

Finally, again, you are getting way way ahead of yourself with the 45nm CPU... Might as well go on and start talking about XXXpm CPUs... when are they due to be released by intel?

Its speculation and thats all it is... You are starting to sound like a broken record by reitterating the same things from posts over and over again.

 

[$BangforThe$]

Totally untrue. Where you you people come up with this crap? AMD is using FAB36 and it's 65-nm equipment right now to manufacture and sell AMD64 cores. The only thing is, AMD is using 90nm design rules to build 90nm chips. The equipment was built for 65nm or larger, and AMD will switch as soon as the 65nm design rules can be validated and yeilds are up.

--

And why is it you Intel people can't compare current product to current product? So many people have complained about this, one would think you would get it by now. I don't care about AM2 or Conroe right now:

• Intel promised 10GHz P4s.

• Intel promised the Itanium would take over the CPU industry with amazing performace.

• When AMD64 was first comming out years ago, there was a huge delay.

• The first stepping of Opteron CPUs had some errata that would cause the whole system to lockup.

• I really could go on all day long with this list.

We all know that every promise and product planned went off without a hitch

Honestly, I totally ignore any Intel or AMD fanb()y's post involving the performance of AM2 or Conroe, because it's all baseless speculation. The point is that you are all wasting your time, doing nothing but trying to jack your post count up.

Right now, all I care about is the fact that AMD is kicking Intel's ass. Six months from now I may be saying the opposite.

The point is that a new product is always just about to come out. If you wait to buy, you'll end up in the exact same situation 6-months from now. Because of this, it is always best to only compare current, shipping products.

Please don't go on all day

90nm to 65nm to 45nm = smaller not larger as you said.

Intel @ 1O ghz . So intel missed but they gave it one hell of a try and learned valuable tech in that effort . some of witch is going into conroe.

Everyone has buried Itanium but Intel . You may not believe it but this is one hell of a processor.

Can you show me were AMD top of the line destoys Intel top of the line by 30%.

By the time AMD gets to 65nm in aug. of 07 intel will release 45nm in dec of 07


IBM is struggling with the 65nm tech until we see a tapped out 65nm part from the fabs. look for the amd part 9 months latter. It hasn't tapped out yet at fab 36 yet and thats the bottom line.

So when AMD does get 65nm out and intel gets 45nm out about the same time you will say you can't compare because not same tech. Your argument is weak if not silly.

 

[SSE4]

Its not the fact of being a diehard AMD fan, or a die hard intel fan... (I own one AMD system as my primary and two intel systems as my secondaries... I go with whats best at the time)... It just kills me that everyone is speculating so far in advance on the intel side... Just like your comment above "for the next 15 months"? Are you that conceded? Do you not think that AMD is not aware of the conroe... You act as if Intel just pulled a rabbit out of the hat and surprised AMD, or that AMD hasnt been working on its own next gen processor. If you think AMD will not have a processor to compete with conroe within the next 15 months, you are being naive...

Now with the release dates... you are speculating again... Quarter 3 covers 3 months of the year... You are boasting and hoping that it is released within the first few hours of quarter 3... Yes I said fall... Why? Because the final month of quarter 3 is the fall, along with almost half of quarter 4... which coincides with all of my posts... So I do not understand why it is you keep pulling up the same topic of when I think conroe will be released... You say that its rumored for July... But thats just it rumor... Until something concrete arises, people can rumor or believe what they want... but as someone said in an earlier post... Dell and other major PC vendors are going to chew up all of the first lines of conroes, leaving the rest of us with little to none until they start mass producing more of them.

I think most of our speculation regarding the Conroe product launch comes from our Intel employees here. So it's part speculation, but you'd think if anyone knows what's going on, they do? That's about as close to the real thing as you can get. 3 months, 4 months, 5 months - it's not even half a year. It's interesting how the AMD !!!!!!s would "hold off" on purchases for this and that - Venice even, etc, but now that it's "Hold off for Conroe, it's better." Everyone's screaming "Pff! Enjoy your technology man. It's all about the now!" Why is it in the now? Because everything is in AMD's favour at the moment - and deep down amongst biased arguments, I think AMD !!!!!!s are truly afraid that Conroe may very well be the architectural answer to AMD64 people have been waiting for.

Speculation that AMD is working on something... I really hope they've got something good in the works - and I don't doubt it, but all of us want to hear something tangible. We've got Conroe figures to look at now - and despite what people say, I personally feel that they're most likely credible for previously stated reasons. And we also have been told by said Intel employees that Intel is already working on something new, a successor to Conroe. If AMD comes out with something they've finally been working on, is it just going to get beat out by Intel's next core in the works? All we have is speculation, and if you ask me, it's pretty fun. Unless you're a !!!!!! biased one way or another - then it's either "Praise to your master," or "Blasphemy." But I personally enjoy thinking ahead - thinking of what we have in store. I'm not going to buy a Pentium D 9XX right now when I know 4-5 months from now I could have a Conroe... To do so, to me, would be a foolish waste of my money. In a similar light, I could go out and buy an AMD system - but I don't for the very same reason.

Then people say "Well, if you're going to wait for that, you might as well wait for..." No. That's not even valid. In an industry like this, it goes without saying that things can come and go pretty easily - but we're talking about 4-5 months. You're going to wait almost half a year for a substantially superior processor - the way things look, there's not a better one on the horizon at the moment. When you buy a Conroe - you're probably going to be doing pretty good - and for longer than the number of months you spent waiting for it - which would not be the case if you bought AMD immediately. Unless AMD has been producing something right at this very moment and is already preparing their own launch, it could be a little bit before we actually have a competitor to that new core - and Conroe could be in the light for many months. But, AMD could have some kind of new core prepared for manufacturing. We don't know, but you know what? It's funner to speculate than to have some ass come here and call us all sorts of names - and worst of all, to tell us to be needlessly impulsive with our money. Thanks but no thanks - I'll decide, and in turn help others decide, if they feel 4-5 months is worth the wait for the substantial performance increase Conroe has to offer. It's not your place to talk down on technological advancement - and you sound like an ass when you do.

And we know 45nm is already planned - sure, it's quite a ways away, but from their roadmaps and what I've heard about Intel - they aren't slowing down. At least their plans for 45nm are more concrete than AMD's - you can't talk down on that. The company seems to be moving out of the ditch they've been in for a few years, and yet we haven't heard a single thing from AMD. Although if you ask me, AMD's not typically the kind of company that speaks while everyone else listens like Intel is - so silence from them doesn't necessarily mean anything. They could truly have something they're working on, but who cares? We're busy celebrating the next "Great thing" right now, so what difference does it make? If this was another AMD processor, I bet more people would be thrilled... But it seems like since it's from Intel it's "Pointless," "A waste of time," and "Not worth your money." Since when has it been a crime to hold out 4-5 months for something truly great? I know for a fact that people have done it in the past - even for AMD - yet it's as if it's become some unspeakable thing for anyone to say "Hold out for a Conroe, don't buy an AMD." You know from the benchmarks and architectural statistics it's better - but you all seem so hostile. "Shut up! Wait!? PFF! Don't wait! Buy now! Buy AMD! Live in the moment! Our moment!"

Anyone who gets hostile over that or tries to justify their hostility is either too impulsive for their own good, or more loyal to AMD than they should be. There's nothing wrong with waiting a few months for Conroe, or even suggesting such. In fact, it's only natural that someone recommend that. But it seems like every AMD !!!!!! shows his colours when he says, "Don't listen to him. Spend your money now!" Some people, as much as they want an upgrade, want to know if they have an even better price/performance ratio option available to them in about 4 months time. If it was AMD's new core 4 months down the road, I bet a lot more people would say, "Nah man, we've got this new core and chipset coming in 4-5 months that's going to be way better than this one so you should wait it out. If not for the upgrade, for the price drop." If he'll still buy now, that's his prerogative - but chances are, half the people here to ask about an upgrade, don't know what the market has coming, even if they'd be willing to wait. They deserve to at least know about it - regardless of their choice from that point on.

AMD guys are all talking down on Conroe and how we're all speculating - yet at the same time, you're all talking about how "AMD's got somethin'." Well I don't doubt that, but the point is, we enthusiasts are embracing the future we know will be, and not the future we know nothing about. You're the ones speculating on how AMD has something up it's sleeve. I of all people don't doubt that - but don't call the solid roadmaps (As solid as a roadmap can be ) and insider info we have speculation when you don't even have that. It's rude and ignorant - you have AM2 - so look forward to that right now. Whereas the Intel guys have Conroe benchmarks and info of a new core already going through various stages of development. You come and tell us we're being naive when you have at least that much information on your future AMD core. And you know what? Unlike you, I'll be glad to hear that information. I'll embrace it because I love computers as a whole, and any advancement or improvement is more than welcome in my eyes.

As a note, I do apologize for the length of the post.

As an additional note, this post is not entirely meant for the person who was quoted - since it's obvious that one person does not represent the whole. If you feel insulted for your previous actions and needless negativity - this was probably directed towards you. But not all AMD users are !!!!!!s - a lot of you are just enthusiasts, and I have an undying respect for "you people."

 

[Donnie27]

Its not the fact of being a diehard AMD fan, or a die hard intel fan... (I own one AMD system as my primary and two intel systems as my secondaries... I go with whats best at the time)... It just kills me that everyone is speculating so far in advance on the intel side... Just like your comment above "for the next 15 months"? Are you that conceded? Do you not think that AMD is not aware of the conroe... You act as if Intel just pulled a rabbit out of the hat and surprised AMD, or that AMD hasnt been working on its own next gen processor. If you think AMD will not have a processor to compete with conroe within the next 15 months, you are being naive...

Now with the release dates... you are speculating again... Quarter 3 covers 3 months of the year... You are boasting and hoping that it is released within the first few hours of quarter 3... Yes I said fall... Why? Because the final month of quarter 3 is the fall, along with almost half of quarter 4... which coincides with all of my posts... So I do not understand why it is you keep pulling up the same topic of when I think conroe will be released... You say that its rumored for July... But thats just it rumor... Until something concrete arises, people can rumor or believe what they want... but as someone said in an earlier post... Dell and other major PC vendors are going to chew up all of the first lines of conroes, leaving the rest of us with little to none until they start mass producing more of them.

Finally, again, you are getting way way ahead of yourself with the 45nm CPU... Might as well go on and start talking about XXXpm CPUs... when are they due to be released by intel?

Its speculation and thats all it is... You are starting to sound like a broken record by reitterating the same things from posts over and over again.

Nothing wrote here should "Kill" you, you're taking this crap way too seriously.

I'm not "boasting", "bragging", "conceded" yelling or any of the other BS you've posted so far about me. Anyone who's used a Dothan on a Handicapped Platform (why I didn't buy one) as I have, saw this coming months ago. Had you tried one, you'd know that. Yonah results should have been a hint. But AMD fanatics act as if Intel doesn't build Dothan or Yonah. They keep saying Intel when maybe they should say the P4. Example; Intel's High MHz , underperforming Procesors run hot and used too much power. Does that sound like Dothan or Yonah to you?

You're starting to get ahead of youself, what frackin' 65nm AMD Processor, a smaller K8 or K10, do you know? Oh wait, you can talk about future products if they're AMD, but we can't if they're Intel, right? You're painting yourself into a corner here.

You posted something I didn't agree with, I posted a roadmap. You twist and spin, yes that's a broken record alright LOL! I reiterated because I didn't get an answer the first time. I said it was speculation, what part of that do you NOT understand? If you don't agree with my speculation then do so without the put downs of folk's views and the wise cracks that were not needed=P Just post where you disagree and wait for a reply. But no, AMD folks can't do that, it's too personal.

My Primary system is AMD based, my secondary is Intel just like you. I try to buy the best tool for the Job. I'm not about to wait 15 to 18 months to see if AMD comes out with something better just as I didn't wait for Conroe when I built my last AMD rig. I'll get Conroe just as I will not put it off for K8-65nm or K10 the all new AMD processor. Then next year if K-10 kicks ass, I'll be on it like a Chicken on a June-Bug.

As much as AMD likes to toot its own horn, can you provide any kind of link to tests of K8L, K10 or etc..? That's why I said AMD has NOTHING for 15 months that'll touch Conroe, hell yes that can change. As of now though, it hasn't. I'm not braggin', too many AMD Fans do that already. 15 months is June of next year BTW hardly anything important. Other speculation shows K-10 Around August or Sept of next year, I was being generous. Noway in hell I'm buying anything but K10 from AMD, no I don't have much wants or needs for K8 anything unless it dirt cheap.

 

[Donnie27]

So it's part speculation, but you'd think if anyone knows what's going on, they do? That's about as close to the real thing as you can get. 3 months, 4 months, 5 months - it's not even half a year. It's interesting how the AMD !!!!!!s would "hold off" on purchases for this and that - Venice even, etc, but now that it's "Hold off for Conroe, it's better." Everyone's screaming "Pff! Enjoy your technology man. It's all about the now!" Why is it in the now? Because everything is in AMD's favour at the moment - and deep down amongst biased arguments, I think AMD !!!!!!s are truly afraid that Conroe may very well be the architectural answer to AMD64 people have been waiting for.

Double Standards are what makes them F@ntools in the first place.

 

[SSE4]

Double Standards are what makes them F@ntools in the first place.

Pretty much.

But we've been told by the Intel guys that there's already a new core, a successor to Conroe, that's been through several stages of development right now. So Intel's already got Conroe's successor working through development - Conroe isn't on the market yet, and apparently another new core is in development? Where's the AMD information? I think they said they'll be talking around June. On the eve of Conroe, they'll start showing us what they have. They better have two cores ready, because from what I've heard, Intel isn't sitting around and waiting. But the interesting part is that we don't know what's in store from us - I can't wait to hear some information about what AMD's bringing to the table. Of course they feel that they can easily stomp Conroe - they've had enough time to build something to fill that 20% gap at least with their own processor - but if Intel truly already has a successor to Conroe, AMD's going to need a lot more than that.

Regardless, I'll speculate all I want, and pray for a new-core filled future for both companies. Because competition is fun, and I want the prices to drop. I guess we'll just get to see when AMD talks and Conroe is out.

 

[visaris]

hahaha obviously I've posted something hurtful to get this reply. how the fuck are you going to fabricate a 90nm chip with 65nm equipment? please try to use google and look-up Chip Fabrication 101

Again, you are totally wrong. You don't understand how chip fab works. 65nm doesn't mean that all features on the chip are only 65nm large. All it means is that the manufacturing equipment can produce features as small as 65nm. So, Intel and AMD's 65nm fabs can make 65nm, 90nm, 130nm, etc, all the way up. I think you need to eat some of your own advice and go google a little.

90nm to 65nm to 45nm = smaller not larger as you said.

Again, 65nm equpment can make chips at 65nm or larger. I think this is a pretty simple concept, and I'm not even sure what the heck you're talking about.

--

I mean damn! I'm not trying to start a flame war here, I'm trying to educate people. I just don't understand why so many people post as if they are an expert in the industry when it's obvious that they have no clue what they are talking about.

 

[empoy]

I mean damn! I'm not trying to start a flame war here, I'm trying to educate people. I just don't understand why so many people post as if they are an expert in the industry when it's obvious that they have no clue what they are talking about.

so can you explain how are you going to fabricate 90nm Si dies with 65nm equipment?

All it means is that the manufacturing equipment can produce features as small as 65nm. So, Intel and AMD's 65nm fabs can make 65nm, 90nm, 130nm, etc, all the way up. I think you need to eat some of your own advice and go google a little.

are you kidding me? are you working for a semicon company?

 

[Bao01]

so can you explain how are you going to fabricate 90nm Si dies with 65nm equipment?

Whatever he's about to say now, I hope he understands the right meaning whenever he finds out about AMD "tooling up" for 65nm.

 

[empoy]

.

 

[Narisatu]

Im just curious.. but why CANT you fabricate 90nm dies with 65nm equipment? i wouldnt think it would be that hard to use smaller equipment to make something bigger... though.. that just answered my question i think.. it would be like using a dremel to cut down a tree....

 

[SLee]

Im just curious.. but why CANT you fabricate 90nm dies with 65nm equipment? i wouldnt think it would be that hard to use smaller equipment to make something bigger... though.. that just answered my question i think.. it would be like using a dremel to cut down a tree....

I think the point is if you spend billions to setup a 65nm fab, you would be using it to make cheaper 65nm CPUs so you can pay off the fab and build up some cash to spend billions on the next fab.