ASUS Eee Pad Transformer coming Tuesday 4/26

[djkest]

It's ironic that Nvidia made the APU for this device and the weakness seems to be video /graphics.

 

[Trimlock]

It took a much different direction from their ION system. Their next (tegra3) processor will be their major upgrade. I don't think NV saw the desire for HD content with this.

 

[computerpro3]

I'm not sure what all the video problems are. I encoded an entire season of topgear in 720P and it plays absolutely flawlessley. In fact, it looks stunningly good through HDMI out to a $4000 samsung 3d capable led tv. Not one single dropped frame or anything.

I'll post the presets I used for handbrake later, but I barely changed anything - just enabled baseline profile through tweaking a few settings on the advanced tab. The only downsize is size - a single topgear 1 hour episode is about 2gb exactly. But I dont really care, seeing as how I bought 2 32gb cards for it plus the internal 16gb.

 

[Joe Average]

SD just means Standard Definition, it's not a "profile" for encoding. It just means everything that's not HD as defined by the 720p (1280x720)and 1080p (1920x1080) standards, so anything that's not actual 720p or 1080p content (at those resolutions) is going to be considered "Standard Definition or SD.

DVDs, because they basically match the NTSC/PAL standards in their respective regions are simply considered Standard Definition because they can be broadcast directly on our old "standard" analog broadcast systems.

h.264 - the video format - has encoders that use given profiles, like Baseline, Main, and High which define some of 17 potential profiles for an h.264 encoding (x264 is an encoder which produces h.264-complaint video streams and is the best encoder out there, and it's what HandBrake uses as well) and you can get more info here (again, sorry for the Wikipedia page but, it does get the job done sometimes):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.264/MPEG-4_AVC#Profiles

The only profiles that really matter for devices like the Transformer and others are the Baseline (meaning it's the foundation and offers pretty limited capabilities but it does get the job done), Main (which is designed to cover Standard Definition content precisely), and High Profile (the one designed to cover High Definition content), but each device may or may not be able to decode given profile encodings based on what the video decoder is capable of.

The Tegra 2 is nice for most everything it seems except decent support for the profiles designed for the increased clarity and quality of higher definition content.

My "litmus test" for video encoding in terms of color reproduction is red, because for a long time that was something that never really seemed to just "pop" for me. I'll never forget the day that I saw my first actual DVD playing on a decent TV (oddly I can't remember the name of the specific movie). The thing that jumped out at me the most was red, because the movie I was watching had some street scenes where a lot of traffic was moving, like in NYC on one of the popular thoroughfares and it was this massive sea of vehicles moving away from the camera at around dusk.

The yellow of the cabs, the neon signs and the lighted billboards all looked fantastic (coming from VHS, that is) but the brake lights and tail lights of every single vehicle were so sharp and the red color was so damned awesome... just jumped right out at me, and it still does on an encoding or media transfer done very well.

Bleh. You'll figure this all out.

You need to make an encode of some DVD chapter using HandBrake and choose the High Profile setting, adjust the audio, drop the surround audio track if you don't need it to save some space, drop the chapter markers (with HandBrake the default will be mp4/m4v container with the High Profile preset, and it shows m4v till you drop the chapter markers - on an iDevice, it's necessary to use the m4v container to keep subs and chapter markers, but not on other devices), and then do an encode and see how it turns out.

Also, you can save a significant amount of space in the size of the files if you switch from using the Constant Quality to using Avg Bitrate of 1500 Kbps or even 1000 Kbps. I really don't care on a portable device - even with a 10.1" IPS panel in it - if it's absolutely breathtakingly stunningly perfectly freakin' hella cool awesome quality myself... I care if it's watchable, that it doesn't look like some "cam" recording someone did in a theater with a cell phone camera, and obviously I have to be able to get the subs in there as well.

I'm not sure there's an Android media player yet that can read embedded subs because I like to turn them off for when I'm watching alone, but still having the option to enable them as required for the Wife since she's deaf. And no, I don't care to go the external sub route which is far more complicated to create; in such situations I just burn 'em in permanently.

 

[djkest]

I'll post the presets I used for handbrake later, but I barely changed anything - just enabled baseline profile through tweaking a few settings on the advanced tab. The only downsize is size - a single topgear 1 hour episode is about 2gb exactly. But I dont really care, seeing as how I bought 2 32gb cards for it plus the internal 16gb.

On this size of screen you can certainly get good looking video. Those are some pretty big files though. Testing high profile and normal encodes of Tangled now...

 

[Sly]

Finally got curious and looked into multitouch.

h*t*t*p://codetest.f*r*e*e*h*o*s*t*i*a.com/flashtouch/touchprototype01.html

I wrote it last night. Someone else has my tablet at the moment, so i can't test. But if anybody wants to try, maybe they can tell me if it works. I'm kinda guessing where the touch begin and ends are fired.

Theoretically, multitouch should allow you to aim with the crosshair and fire with the bullet icon at the same time. If it's three point touch, then simultaneous aim, fire, and gun select should be possible... theoretically. Even if it works, i don't know how to keep the fullscreen menu up top from appearing.

Don't bother loading it on your desktop, it's taking cues from touch events.

 

[heatlesssun]

Finally got curious and looked into multitouch.

h*t*t*p://codetest.f*r*e*e*h*o*s*t*i*a.com/flashtouch/touchprototype01.html

Just tried this on my HP Slate which supports 4 point multi-touch and the scenario that you described of doing all three things simultaneously does seem to work. My other devices only support two touch points and of course only two things can be done simultaneously on those machines. Thanks for experiment.

Yeay Flash!

 

[Sly]

Great, didn't actually think Win7 had multitouch input. Can you drag two windows at once? Anyway, i'd still like to know if it works on android tablets. Coz i got a call for a possible side job making games for facebook, and i wondered if i can do touch based games.

When i was making games full time before, the thing that i ask was "What NES game do you want me to copy next?" Of course, the graphics guy is the one that re-skins them to look original

Now, i'm gonna ask "What 2D iPod game do you want me copying next?" Super Coastal Defense?

 

[heatlesssun]

Windows 7 supports up to ten touch points if the host hardware does. On good hardware Windows 7 touch is far better than most realize, most have no idea of the full extent of the capabilities. Multi-touch doesn't override normal Windows behavior, you can't drag multiple windows via multi-touch as that's by design.

So is this an actual game?

 

[Sly]

Nope, just an early prototype to get an idea of how to do multitouch. It tracks a bit different from HTML5, and i'll have to say that it's easier to do multitouch in AS3 than javascript.

My main job is web development, but i can probably take a side job for web games and continue developing tablet oriented flash games.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMqQDboHL0E

This is super coastal defense for the iPhone, and it's totally doable on flash. If i get commissioned for it or anything similar, i'll be basing the controls off that.

 

[heatlesssun]

Flash could probably run 99% of iOS apps or for that matter Android. Flash runs better on x86 machines but no doubt Apple didn't want Flash on the iPad in part to keep apps proprietary. It would be hard to call the device magical if 99% of the apps ran on Windows or Android.

 

[AQ_OC]

Windows 7 supports up to ten touch points if the host hardware does. On good hardware Windows 7 touch is far better than most realize, most have no idea of the full extent of the capabilities. Multi-touch doesn't override normal Windows behavior, you can't drag multiple windows via multi-touch as that's by design.

So is this an actual game?

It works well (all three) on my Dell Latitude XT, one of the earlier Windows tablets. I run Win764 on it now.

 

[AQ_OC]

Flash could probably run 99% of iOS apps or for that matter Android. Flash runs better on x86 machines but no doubt Apple didn't want Flash on the iPad in part to keep apps proprietary. It would be hard to call the device magical if 99% of the apps ran on Windows or Android.

So why did Google develop Android and MS develop Windows Phone 7? Isn't Apple open to HTML5? It seems if someone wants Flash to be engine for light apps, then it is left to Adobe to make that happen.

 

[heatlesssun]

So why did Google develop Android and MS develop Windows Phone 7? Isn't Apple open to HTML5? It seems if someone wants Flash to be engine for light apps, then it is left to Adobe to make that happen.

However Google and Microsoft haven't openly hostile to Flash. Lots of Android devices have decent Flash support and Windows Phone will probably eventually get it, as I said there are technical issues on non x86 platforms and yes Adobe does have to lead the support as you say.

As for HTML 5, the iPad supports it but at this point it's a less viable way to deliver apps to mobile devices than even Flash as the performance just isn't there for mobile devices. I just think that Apple has no interest in lightweight cross platform runtime as it goes to the heart of what makes the iDevices interesting, the apps though in time as Android starts to dominate the mobile phone space and even Windows Phone begins to offer the iPhone some challenge I don't think that apps are going to be that much of a differentiator.

 

[djkest]

The high profile encode of tangled was 1.15 GB
The standard profile encode of tangled was 846 MB
The baseline profile encode of tangled was ~900 MB

The standard seemed to look better than baseline, although it's really hard to say. The high profile may have been better, but it was really hard to see any improvement. I wasn't able to compare frame by frame, windows 7 didn't like having 2 movies open at once. I looked at the movies on my TV and on my transformer.

With all encodes, certain scenes looked mediocre, other slow moving close-up shots seemed very awesome. I was impressed by the colors in this movie, especially around the 32 minute mark. There is a scene with blond hair, lush greenery, a purple dress, and blueish background that was just beautiful. Tangled looks really good even on DVD.

That being said, blowing up my encodes to a full 46" looked dreadful from 5' away. It's like watching a DVD without any sort of upscaling.

Transformer: still brilliant for surfing the web and e-mail. It actually does this better than my laptop did. It scales websites very well, text is very crisp. Logging in to some websites has been troublesome. Typing messages can still be frustrating- I wish it worked more like the SWYPE I have on my 2.2 phone. Every time I type in "djkest" it changes it to "snakes".

 

[AQ_OC]

However Google and Microsoft haven't openly hostile to Flash. Lots of Android devices have decent Flash support and Windows Phone will probably eventually get it, as I said there are technical issues on non x86 platforms and yes Adobe does have to lead the support as you say.

I think some of that open hostility you mention is just Apple responding to criticism of it for not using Flash, rather than simply going after Flash. If people are dinging you for something you at least have to tell them why you made the choices you made.

As for HTML 5, the iPad supports it but at this point it's a less viable way to deliver apps to mobile devices than even Flash as the performance just isn't there for mobile devices.

Ok. But at least they support something not Apple. Frankly, I don't see a problem with companies wanting to innovate in their own way using stuff the make and like. If they don't survive because if it, then that's life. If they do, then that's fine too.

I just think that Apple has no interest in lightweight cross platform runtime as it goes to the heart of what makes the iDevices interesting, the apps though in time as Android starts to dominate the mobile phone space and even Windows Phone begins to offer the iPhone some challenge I don't think that apps are going to be that much of a differentiator.

It will be interesting to watch how it all unfolds. It seems clear that Apple will not dominate the phone market. They killed that market themselves by having exclusive deal with AT&T. Wide open window for others to get in.

We'll see if the same holds for the iPad, though. It may be too late or maybe not. HoneyComb is Goggle's 1.0 OS for tablets and it still needs work. We can't even get our hands (collectively) on a Transformer and frankly, nothing else seems worth the bother. We are almost half way to year two of tablets. The Android take-over of the tablet space is indeed off to a slow start. I'm thinking that it's really going to take Amazon to get things going. I'm wondering too if I should wait for the Amazon tablet rather than getting a Transformer.

 

[heatlesssun]

Ok. But at least they support something not Apple. Frankly, I don't see a problem with companies wanting to innovate in their own way using stuff the make and like. If they don't survive because if it, then that's life. If they do, then that's fine too.

I have no problem with native apps, that's a good thing. I really don't get though the whole Flash is Satan thing. Flash has been around a LONG time and serves its purpose well. Sure it has its problems but its not like we had HTML 5 ten years ago and even HTML 5 can't completely replace Flash or other portable runtime environments.

It will be interesting to watch how it all unfolds. It seems clear that Apple will not dominate the phone market. They killed that market themselves by having exclusive deal with AT&T. Wide open window for others to get in.

According to several research firms Android should dominate the phone space and Windows Phone and the iPhone will reach parity in the next four years.

We'll see if the same holds for the iPad, though. It may be too late or maybe not. HoneyComb is Goggle's 1.0 OS for tablets and it still needs work. We can't even get our hands (collectively) on a Transformer and frankly, nothing else seems worth the bother. We are almost half way to year two of tablets. The Android take-over of the tablet space is indeed off to a slow start. I'm thinking that it's really going to take Amazon to get things going. I'm wondering too if I would wait for the Amazon tablet rather than getting a Transformer.

I think that Windows 8 will become the main challenger to the iPad. I think what works well for Android on phones doesn't serve it as well on slates and tablets. People don't expect consistency on phones but on fuller function devices like tablets that cost as much as laptops out of pocket I think the expectations are different.

Windows 8 is looking to be the next Windows 95, a huge UI update so there's a lot of risk here. Windows 8 will either be a huge success or flop far beyond Vista's proportions. I have no idea at this point until the beta comes out. I have high hopes as Microsoft has a mountain of intellectual property to bring to bear and have been working on tablets for a long time. We shall see.

 

[Whitebread]

I keep hearing that Tegra 3 tablets are supposed to be available by fall of this year. Considering how late NVIDIA has been with Tegra 2, does anyone here actually think that the chip will be available in 2011? I'd hate to get a transformer and have an obsolete piece of hardware in 2 months.

What do you guys think?

 

[AQ_OC]

I think that Windows 8 will become the main challenger to the iPad. I think what works well for Android on phones doesn't serve it as well on slates and tablets. People don't expect consistency on phones but on fuller function devices like tablets that cost as much as laptops out of pocket I think the expectations are different.

Windows 8 is looking to be the next Windows 95, a huge UI update so there's a lot of risk here. Windows 8 will either be a huge success or flop far beyond Vista's proportions. I have no idea at this point until the beta comes out. I have high hopes as Microsoft has a mountain of intellectual property to bring to bear and have been working on tablets for a long time. We shall see.

If what you're saying proves true, the battle for the tablet is already lost. MS will be too late to the game with Win8 to have any significant impact on Tablets. I suspect the bar will move to a tablet-like touch interface integrated into everything/anything...instead of having a PC/MAC monitor on top of your desk, your desktop will be your PC. Sort of like that coffee tablet PC they showed. Or, well have a holographic PCs and use a Kinect-type device to read user-input from the air.

I just hope that once I retire I'll be able to afford to play with the new toys. I want to play up until the moment I croak.

 

[heatlesssun]

If what you're saying proves true, the battle for the tablet is already lost. MS will be too late to the game with Win8 to have any significant impact on Tablets.

Just don't see the logic in this as the tablet market is still pretty tiny and the hardware a bit on the underwhelming side for what they cost. And there's a lot of things that Microsoft can do with tablets like digital ink that do have a broad based appeal, the issue has mainly been cost and battery that Windows 8 ARM should solve and Intel and AMD are working pretty hard on more power efficient x86 designs as well.

Microsoft has proven with virtually every product that is has that's successful, including Windows that you don't have to be first to do well. You simply need a compelling product.

 

[AQ_OC]

Just don't see the logic in this as the tablet market is still pretty tiny and the hardware a bit on the underwhelming side for what they cost. And there's a lot of things that Microsoft can do with tablets like digital ink that do have a broad based appeal, the issue has mainly been cost and battery that Windows 8 ARM should solve and Intel and AMD are working pretty hard on more power efficient x86 designs as well.

Microsoft has proven with virtually every product that is has that's successful, including Windows that you don't have to be first to do well. You simply need a compelling product.

That not exactly true about MS. You're correct that MS has arrived late to the game and managed to become a dominate player in the market. However, there are some cases where it didn't work. Major example: The ZUNE. While it was a good player with good software, they totally lost the "mind space" with users and thus could not play. Win8 is just not that near a release to keep MS in this particular game.

It's not as if their major competitor in this market is sitting still and has no resources either. IMO, the best game in town for MS to play is to move the target a bit and find a new playground. There is room for everyone to have some pie -- and plenty of pie -- but you can't expect to have it all.

 

[RanceJustice]

I keep hearing that Tegra 3 tablets are supposed to be available by fall of this year. Considering how late NVIDIA has been with Tegra 2, does anyone here actually think that the chip will be available in 2011? I'd hate to get a transformer and have an obsolete piece of hardware in 2 months.

What do you guys think?

I feel the same way. I'm sending back my Eee Slate due to a fan problem and the ghastly 2-point only multitouch, in favor of a Transformer (32gb+Dock), to see how it works. I'm going to be very, very disappointed if the bloody Nvidia card can't keep up with 720p / 1080p video and the kind of 3D games available on iOS and Android. Honestly, Nvidia is just striking out more and more these days in my experience. Hearing that there will be a Tegra3 this year, when there have only been a handful of Tegra2 devices makes me want to wait, especially if that is supposed to be a huge jump in power.

I wonder if anyone will make a top of the line tablet with something more powerful - maybe AMD's offerings are better, but I'd like to see them applied to Android or something else besides Windows.

 

[heatlesssun]

That not exactly true about MS. You're correct that MS has arrived late to the game and managed to become a dominate player in the market. However, there are some cases where it didn't work. Major example: The ZUNE. While it was a good player with good software, they totally lost the "mind space" with users and thus could not play. Win8 is just not that near a release to keep MS in this particular game.

It's not as if their major competitor in this market is sitting still and has no resources either. IMO, the best game in town for MS to play is to move the target a bit and find a new playground. There is room for everyone to have some pie -- and plenty of pie -- but you can't expect to have it all.

I didn't word that well. Of course Microsoft hasn't had success with everything but most everything it has had success with wasn't first. Windows, Office, Xbox, all late to the party.

Windows 8 beta comes out in a few months. For a release this size the beta is enough to suck up mind share. And this finished product is only 18 months away. There's only going to be one more iPad release, and Google throwing out a zillion versions of Android ain't going to happen, they've got a ton of stuff to mop up with Honeycomb.

 

[Whitebread]

I feel the same way. I'm sending back my Eee Slate due to a fan problem and the ghastly 2-point only multitouch, in favor of a Transformer (32gb+Dock), to see how it works. I'm going to be very, very disappointed if the bloody Nvidia card can't keep up with 720p / 1080p video and the kind of 3D games available on iOS and Android. Honestly, Nvidia is just striking out more and more these days in my experience. Hearing that there will be a Tegra3 this year, when there have only been a handful of Tegra2 devices makes me want to wait, especially if that is supposed to be a huge jump in power.

I wonder if anyone will make a top of the line tablet with something more powerful - maybe AMD's offerings are better, but I'd like to see them applied to Android or something else besides Windows.

Yeah, I'm very tempted to cancel my preorder at J&R, especially with the issues the Transformer is having with HD video. If a software update fixes them, at least for 720P, I could be satisfied, even if the Tegra3 came out in August or September.

 

[heatlesssun]

I feel the same way. I'm sending back my Eee Slate due to a fan problem and the ghastly 2-point only multitouch, in favor of a Transformer (32gb+Dock), to see how it works.

Sorry to hear that about the EP121. The fan speed seems to be about the most common issue with it hardware wise, there were a number of complaints about it over at TabletPCReview.com. I too saw it myself once and it went away (knock on wood), kind of weird. But it's a hell of a media playback device. I have to admit the number of touch points is probably far less important than the Wacom digitizer for most people who get an EP121. N-trig digitizers have 4 touch points like the HP Slate but I'd take just two and a Wacom pen any day of the week. If inking isn't something that you find useful the EP121 probably wasn't the right device for you anyway. That's one of it's greatest strengths.

Hope the Transformer works out for you.

 

[AQ_OC]

I didn't word that well. Of course Microsoft hasn't had success with everything but most everything it has had success with wasn't first. Windows, Office, Xbox, all late to the party.

Windows 8 beta comes out in a few months. For a release this size the beta is enough to suck up mind share. And this finished product is only 18 months away. There's only going to be one more iPad release, and Google throwing out a zillion versions of Android ain't going to happen, they've got a ton of stuff to mop up with Honeycomb.

I knew what you meant....but a Win8 beta is still a long ways off from a shipping product. I don't even count it seriously if it ain't shipping on product. In two years the market will be lost. And MS is known to be luke warm on tablets anyway.

And let's not forget history...at lot of what MS did back then happened because it could leverage its "OS on every PC" muscle. ...it stole the browser market by forcing its browser on everyone. It was easy to get office...almost had to go out of your way not to get it...and it was just good enough...not technically best. A lot of companies fell to MS...either by getting squeezed from the market or just bought out. That's why there was huge hatin on MS...now Apple gets most of that...while Google deserves most of it.

 

[heatlesssun]

So once the iPad 3 and whatever after Honeycomb is released, along with webOS that's it and the tablet market is set in stone? The most widely deployed OS ever will be a non-factor in tablets with just one major release of the competition in the next 18 months and that's it? Not to mention that most of todays tablets will be utter junk and on top of that all of the supply issues?

The tablet market is far from large or mature right now. Actually a solid Windows 8 at the right time with better hardware that's actually for sale in 18 months might be a lot better time than now. There's simply not enough parts to build even Windows tablets right now, all the good ones take weeks to get.

However my guess is that the folks in Redmond would rather their competitors see it like you than me anyway.

 

[Joe Average]

Yeah, I'm very tempted to cancel my preorder at J&R, especially with the issues the Transformer is having with HD video. If a software update fixes them, at least for 720P, I could be satisfied, even if the Tegra3 came out in August or September.

Software can't "fix" what isn't broken: the Tegra 2 simply cannot play extreme bitrate High Profile h.264 encoded material, end of story. It's not a software problem, it's not really a problem at all to be honest; it's just how it is. It's a SoC designed for small devices with small screens - having the ability to output through an HDMI connector does not mean it can crank out the highest bitrate highest resolution content at maximum sharpness/clarity/bitrate/resolution. The HDMI port is there to provide a connection to other devices for output purposes and that's about it. It's a convenience thing more than anything else.

How many people put high bitrate high profile content on a smartphone these days like the EVO 4G or some other device and actually use that for regular casual viewing of such materials? Would you or anyone you know do that when they have a high resolution computer monitor or even a huge gigantic plasma or LCD display along with their home theater system? Nobody I know uses their portable devices for such purposes, and I live in Las Vegas where a lot of my clients are casino execs and poker players that will drop $100,000 for a home theater system or $20,000 for a monster computer system with all the trimmings - and even though some of them have high end smartphones on the day they're released, not one of them has ever asked me "Ok, so, why do to the 1GB movie files on my smartphone look so bad on my 72" LED-backlit LCD display when compared to watching the actual Blu-ray original on the same system?"

They just don't since doing stuff like that is... well... it's a bit fuckin' ridiculous.

I don't get the mindset of people buying a tablet device like the Transformer and consistently having issues with it simply from the "oh fuck, it won't play my damned high bitrate high profile/whatever video encodes, fuck that, it's a piece of shit, I want my money back" mentality. If you took some time to create video encodings of your owned material, then you can easily create new encodings designed just for the Transformer - it just requires some time and effort which honestly costs nothing.

And you are speaking from that point, right? Not from the point of not being able to play a shitload of content that's not legally yours or legally acquired, right, like 1080p MKV rips downloaded from somewhere online, right? I ain't pointing a finger at you or anyone else - but the question does beg to be asked.

I create an encode, I put it on a device, and I watch it - what more do people need? Why the push for "Oh god, a video encoding on this device with the 10.1" LCD panel needs to look just as good (if not better) than it would on my 40-50-60-etc inch plasma/LCD/whatever..."

How good does a lossy encoding created by transcoding already lossy material have to be for you folk?

If you're sitting someplace like mass transit, or in a car, or on a plane, on the toilet, who knows... how goes does it really have to look for you to be able to watch it? I can't perceive how anyone could watch anything - including the encodes I created and other people create all the time - and do nothing but constantly berate the quality, all the while having actually viewable content to work with that most anyone would be more than happy with.

/me shakes his head... this shit makes no sense all too often...

 

[Sly]

Yeah, I'm very tempted to cancel my preorder at J&R, especially with the issues the Transformer is having with HD video. If a software update fixes them, at least for 720P, I could be satisfied, even if the Tegra3 came out in August or September.

It should only matter to video enthusiasts, which honestly doesn't apply to most people. Transcoding videos for us would mean a pc running full time doing nothing but that. I'm pretty sure transcoding four or five (or ten) DVDs a week wouldn't push your pc too hard. Compared to us that has hundreds of episodes in our watch queue (and that's not including the unwatched ones still in the archives). That's why our needs are considered niche.





As for what I'm hoping for in windows 8. Unified hardware drivers and comprehensive software specifications would be nice. The only standard game controller on the android is the wii mote. Does honeycomb have the code infrastructure to support a printer that all the apps can access? Or do they have to be written specifically for it.

 

[AQ_OC]

Software can't "fix" what isn't broken: the Tegra 2 simply cannot play extreme bitrate High Profile h.264 encoded material, end of story. It's not a software problem, it's not really a problem at all to be honest; it's just how it is. It's a SoC designed for small devices with small screens - having the ability to output through an HDMI connector does not mean it can crank out the highest bitrate highest resolution content at maximum sharpness/clarity/bitrate/resolution. The HDMI port is there to provide a connection to other devices for output purposes and that's about it. It's a convenience thing more than anything else.
.
.
snip...
.
.

How good does a lossy encoding created by transcoding already lossy material have to be for you folk?

If you're sitting someplace like mass transit, or in a car, or on a plane, on the toilet, who knows... how goes does it really have to look for you to be able to watch it? I can't perceive how anyone could watch anything - including the encodes I created and other people create all the time - and do nothing but constantly berate the quality, all the while having actually viewable content to work with that most anyone would be more than happy with.

/me shakes his head... this shit makes no sense all too often...

+1! +1!

Why do people expect to be about to output 1080p to a huge screen and expect it to look good? A typical BR movie would take 35-50 GB on a discs, but get packed down to around 1 GB for use on a tablet. All those lost GBs really do count for something when shown on a huge screen. You might not notice what's missing when played on a tiny screen.

I will say though that the iPad 2 and Real Raching HD lets you output at 1080p on a huge TV screen over HDMI. Still doesn't look like a Blu-ray but it is pretty amazing.

 

[djkest]

I agree. I think the Transformer is a fantastic piece of hardware, but zeroing in on it's inabilty to play and output full-quality 1080p is like finding fault with a Jeep Wrangler Rubicon for sub-par 0-60 times. (a lot like that, actually).

It's great for browsing the web, very responsive, runs, the apps I have on it well, it's light, battery lasts a long time, nice for looking at pictures... I mean, the thing was $400. Even if it doesn't "change my life" like so many iPad people talk about, I'm only out $400. I'd imagine if I get the keyboard dock it will further enhance my experience, but that is also more money invested into it.

My last laptop was $900 and after ~40 months of use, it's falling apart- but mostly because I dropped it. Despite running windows Vista... it still works pretty well.

The video encoding thing is a neat "trick" to show people- hey look it does video. It's hand to have a portable video device with a screen large enough to actually enjoy. In the places/situations you are actually using it for this, it's fine. Otherwise, I have my $1200 HDTV and HTPC... and that is much better.

 

[jeremyshaw]

I dunno, it still cannot play youtube fullscreen without having skipping. I mean, that corner that it's forced to in nonfullscreen is fine, however, it's just pure annoying to have so much wasted screen space devoted to nothing but useless youtube comments and "related videos." That, and it's backlight is a bit dimmer (I know that is due to the IPS panel - it's very opaque, so even a complete baller backlight won't be enough, but still...).

 

[Gabe3]

isn't flash player suppose to have hardware acceleration now that android 3.1 is out? i wonder if xoom had the same issues with playing full screen youtube, and if its fixed now with 3.1?

 

[Joe Average]

Flash support was added to Android with 2.2 (Froyo) and it supposedly works well, but it has nothing to do with the OS itself; it's whether or not the hardware can decode the particular profiles used to create the video encodings themselves. As noted earlier (and repeated here again) in this thread, it appears that the Transformer's Tegra 2 can handle:

- SD content (anything that's not classified as HD, meaning sub-720p resolution content) with High profile h.264
- 720p content with Main profile h.264
- 1080p content with Baseline profile h.264

It's really that simple: that is enough information to go on from that point on when it comes to creating encodings for the Transformer that will play without issues. Now, as far as the quality of such encodings, well... that's where all the trouble comes from because that stuff is highly subjective: the encodings I create for my devices look just damned fine for me even when it's "HD" content.

It's acceptable, it works, and I do try to keep the bitrates lower to save space (making smaller video files in the long run).

I guess my point is: I'd rather have a good looking video that takes up 500MB of space than a super-hella-fucking-awesome looking encode that takes up 2GB, especially if I'm using a device with a 10.1" LCD even if it's at a native HD resolution on a pixel basis.

But other people want more, apparently a lot more, and unfortunately that's not going to happen with the Tegra 2. djkest's rather brilliant Jeep analogy back there is spot on: people expect too much of the Transformer's abilities and they're missing something in the big picture. I tried to make that somewhat clear with the HDMI thing: people see that HDMI port and the automagic implication is "Oh wow, I'll get crystal clear 1080p high definition full framerate and digital audio off that little device, amazing" and that's not what the HDMI port is really for.

It's a port that allows for ease of connection to big displays and other devices. Since it's the standard in the non-Apple world of products - just as Apple is pushing DisplayPort and now Thunderbolt for their devices - that's what it should be used as, and not automagically imply when you see one that the device in question MUST have full support and full capability for every video or audio format out there.

HDMI = basically the modern version of a VGA port. VGA ports on laptops were put there primarily to allow for mirroring the display output to projectors, recorders, and bigger displays. Hell, I'm using my Dell Latitude D830 laptop with the internal LCD disabled and the output of the VGA port is going right into a desktop 20" 1680x1050 panel.

But enough of that side of things... someone try this clip on the Transformer and let me know how it goes. It should play just fine:

http://www.mediafire.com/?wq2f97ev4rt9may (WebM video clip, 42.49MB)

It's a 720p encoding taken from YouTube, using Google's V8 encoding format. I don't know for 100% sure if Android 3 supports WebM containers natively but I'll bet it does. I'm curious to know how such a clip will play, so gimme a report if you're game. I'm trying to find a decent 1080p WebM clip but so far I haven't found one. Might have to create one myself I guess...

 

[Whitebread]

Software can't "fix" what isn't broken: the Tegra 2 simply cannot play extreme bitrate High Profile h.264 encoded material, end of story. It's not a software problem, it's not really a problem at all to be honest; it's just how it is. It's a SoC designed for small devices with small screens - having the ability to output through an HDMI connector does not mean it can crank out the highest bitrate highest resolution content at maximum sharpness/clarity/bitrate/resolution. The HDMI port is there to provide a connection to other devices for output purposes and that's about it. It's a convenience thing more than anything else.

How many people put high bitrate high profile content on a smartphone these days like the EVO 4G or some other device and actually use that for regular casual viewing of such materials? Would you or anyone you know do that when they have a high resolution computer monitor or even a huge gigantic plasma or LCD display along with their home theater system? Nobody I know uses their portable devices for such purposes, and I live in Las Vegas where a lot of my clients are casino execs and poker players that will drop $100,000 for a home theater system or $20,000 for a monster computer system with all the trimmings - and even though some of them have high end smartphones on the day they're released, not one of them has ever asked me "Ok, so, why do to the 1GB movie files on my smartphone look so bad on my 72" LED-backlit LCD display when compared to watching the actual Blu-ray original on the same system?"

They just don't since doing stuff like that is... well... it's a bit fuckin' ridiculous.

I don't get the mindset of people buying a tablet device like the Transformer and consistently having issues with it simply from the "oh fuck, it won't play my damned high bitrate high profile/whatever video encodes, fuck that, it's a piece of shit, I want my money back" mentality. If you took some time to create video encodings of your owned material, then you can easily create new encodings designed just for the Transformer - it just requires some time and effort which honestly costs nothing.

And you are speaking from that point, right? Not from the point of not being able to play a shitload of content that's not legally yours or legally acquired, right, like 1080p MKV rips downloaded from somewhere online, right? I ain't pointing a finger at you or anyone else - but the question does beg to be asked.

I create an encode, I put it on a device, and I watch it - what more do people need? Why the push for "Oh god, a video encoding on this device with the 10.1" LCD panel needs to look just as good (if not better) than it would on my 40-50-60-etc inch plasma/LCD/whatever..."

How good does a lossy encoding created by transcoding already lossy material have to be for you folk?

If you're sitting someplace like mass transit, or in a car, or on a plane, on the toilet, who knows... how goes does it really have to look for you to be able to watch it? I can't perceive how anyone could watch anything - including the encodes I created and other people create all the time - and do nothing but constantly berate the quality, all the while having actually viewable content to work with that most anyone would be more than happy with.

/me shakes his head... this shit makes no sense all too often...

Good God. This is a perfunctory diatribe of outlandish proportions. Relax! If you have something to say, just say it. Sheesh.

Anyway, as has already been established, the unit can play 720P content at moderate bitrates both, via streaming content or, from a local file. The problem is that some people are reporting choppy playback while, others are reporting smooth playback of the same content. I DO NOT want to be in the latter group.

I am WELL aware of the limitations of the tablet form factor (~10" screen) and will be using mine for playing movies sparingly.

 

[Whitebread]

It should only matter to video enthusiasts, which honestly doesn't apply to most people. Transcoding videos for us would mean a pc running full time doing nothing but that. I'm pretty sure transcoding four or five (or ten) DVDs a week wouldn't push your pc too hard. Compared to us that has hundreds of episodes in our watch queue (and that's not including the unwatched ones still in the archives). That's why our needs are considered niche.





As for what I'm hoping for in windows 8. Unified hardware drivers and comprehensive software specifications would be nice. The only standard game controller on the android is the wii mote. Does honeycomb have the code infrastructure to support a printer that all the apps can access? Or do they have to be written specifically for it.

That's fine.
It has already been established that this unit isn't really designed for viewing or, outputing 1080P content. That's fine. I would like, though, decent 720P playback at low to moderate bit rates. Enough for it to look respectable and, without choppiness. The tablet would be used for such things sparingly. Likely, only when I travel, something I can prepare for well in advance.

 

[jeremyshaw]

Good God. This is a perfunctory diatribe of outlandish proportions. Relax! As has already been established, the unit can play 720P content at moderate bitrates both, via streaming content or, from a local file. The problem is that some people are reporting choppy playback while, others are reporting smooth playback of the same content. I DO NOT want to be in the latter group.

I am WELL aware of the limitations of the tablet form factor (~10" screen) and will be using mine for playing movies sparingly.

yeah, that's what I was thinking when I read that post. I seriously couldn't care less if Tegra 3000 can support 1600p 10gbps video with 20 channel sound, if it cannot even play a simple Youtube mobile video at fullscreen (likely not even 720p content); NOTHING to do with the HDMI.

As for the video clip, I'll try it when I get home.

 

[elchorizo]

All this talk about bitrates, and playback, and whatnot is fine, but all I want is for someone to have the fucking thing in stock. This is seriously weaksauce. I'm about to ready to break down and get an iPad at this point.

Ugh...

 

[Whitebread]

yeah, that's what I was thinking when I read that post. I seriously couldn't care less if Tegra 3000 can support 1600p 10gbps video with 20 channel sound, if it cannot even play a simple Youtube mobile video at fullscreen (likely not even 720p content); NOTHING to do with the HDMI.

As for the video clip, I'll try it when I get home.

Eh, being able to output 1080P via HDMI well would be a welcome feature for me. My parents have a ~$1500 dollar HDTV and, sometimes I like to play the HD movies I have at their place. It's a pain in the butt to dig up the discs as, they are in storage.

 

[BeavermanA]

http://www.mediafire.com/?wq2f97ev4rt9may (WebM video clip, 42.49MB)

It's a 720p encoding taken from YouTube, using Google's V8 encoding format. I don't know for 100% sure if Android 3 supports WebM containers natively but I'll bet it does. I'm curious to know how such a clip will play, so gimme a report if you're game. I'm trying to find a decent 1080p WebM clip but so far I haven't found one. Might have to create one myself I guess...

Plays like shit on mine. Maybe 5fps. Not supported either, had to download a file manager progrm that had "open as".