Bioshock 2 Fixes

Well they released a patch and to be honest, I prefered the low FOV over this shit:

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/488/bioshock220100212131202.th.jpg

Please tell me that's not real? Hey we fixed the FOV, so now you can see more of your helmet! :p

I've ran into several instances where the keys I have bound still show up on screen as the originals...and several that I have bound flat out don't work. I'm just getting tired as hell with developers putting zero polish or QA on their PC products. :rolleyes:

And I'm not buying this last minute patch BS either.
 
Please tell me that's not real? Hey we fixed the FOV, so now you can see more of your helmet! :p

I've ran into several instances where the keys I have bound still show up on screen as the originals...and several that I have bound flat out don't work. I'm just getting tired as hell with developers putting zero polish or QA on their PC products. :rolleyes:

And I'm not buying this last minute patch BS either.

The tutorial tips are hard coded to specific keys it seems.
 
I've seen the tutorial tips give the keys I rebound instead, it just seems like some of them are broken. I've also had my reload button remap itself mid-game..friggin odd. I went to save a little girl, and killed her instead because the on-screen button was wrong. :p
 
I've seen the tutorial tips give the keys I rebound instead, it just seems like some of them are broken. I've also had my reload button remap itself mid-game..friggin odd. I went to save a little girl, and killed her instead because the on-screen button was wrong. :p

Wow.....The hell did they do to the controls in this game? I don't think I've heard of the controls for a game doing that.
 
I went into the game a few minutes ago and it asked me if I wanted to download an update to the game...what's in this update?...the version number is still listed as 1.0 so I don't think it's the Widescreen patch

bioshock.jpg
 
I went into the game a few minutes ago and it asked me if I wanted to download an update to the game...what's in this update?...the version number is still listed as 1.0 so I don't think it's the Widescreen patch

bioshock.jpg

I don't know what its supposed to fix, here here is what it ruins:

Makes playing it in Landscape Eyefinity even worse

Completely and utterly breaks the MP. Users are reporting being unable to charge plasmids, or use any automatic weapons correctly as the game now forces them to fire each bullet individually instead of allowing them to be fired by holding the fire button down.

Some users are reporting drastically increased lag in MP after the patch.
 
Hor+ dictates a horizontal FOV change. Vert- is an FOV change. They all dictate that the FOV changes.

So what? I said changing from Hor+ to Vert- DOESN'T dictate an FOV change, for at least one aspect. Which could be 16:9.

2K said it wasn't correct, for starters.

No they didn't. They only said the FOV behavior as you move to wider aspects is wrong. They didn't say anything was wrong with 16:9 specifically. The images they posted actually suggest it's correct as is and will stay the same.


It's been explained previously.

Not to me it wasn't. If anything it seems they were under the impression they were seeing less than they were supposed to. Which is impossible to determine unless 2K says they are. Which 2K has not.




Derangel, can you please post a 16:9 screen before and after this new patch, so I can see what kind of change they put in? and if you have the time, same for 4:3?
 
So what? I said changing from Hor+ to Vert- DOESN'T dictate an FOV change, for at least one aspect.
You need to define your terms. I have no idea whether by "FOV" you're referring globally to the effective field of view or to the FOV setting. Yes, the switch from vert- to hor+ would not require that the FOV setting be changed. However, the effective field of view does change. Hor+ increases the horizontal field of view. Vert- decreases the vertical field of view.

No they didn't. They only said the FOV behavior as you move to wider aspects is wrong. They didn't say anything was wrong with 16:9 specifically.
16:9 is a wider aspect ratio than 4:3, is it not? How can 'wider than 4:3' be 'wrong' yet 16:9 be 'right'?

Not to me it wasn't.
Then I suggest you read through the entire thread.
 
I'm getting significantly better mouse movement since the update, still not seeing many other changes though.
 
You need to define your terms. I have no idea whether by "FOV" you're referring globally to the effective field of view or to the FOV setting. Yes, the switch from vert- to hor+ would not require that the FOV setting be changed. However, the effective field of view does change. Hor+ increases the horizontal field of view. Vert- decreases the vertical field of view.

FOV = the field of view. how much you can see up and down, and left and right on your display.

And for the love of pete, FOV does NOT change for at least one aspect when you change FOV behavior. Do you understand the difference between FOV and FOV behavior?

Vert- and Hor+ are behaviors. When you change from behavior one to the other, the FOV will change for all aspects OTHER than baseline. If 16:9 is baseline, which the Cult of Rapture images suggest it is, then 16:9's FOV will not change, when the patch turns the game from Vert- to Hor+.

I think the only way to make you understand is to give an example. 4:3 in Bioshock 1, does not change whatsover, pre and post patch or "FOV lock" on/off setting. Oh look, the game went from Vert- to Hor+ (just like Bioshock 2 is apparently going to do) and the FOV didn't change for the baseline aspect!

16:9 is a wider aspect ratio than 4:3, is it not? How can 'wider than 4:3' be 'wrong' yet 16:9 be 'right'?

who said "wider than 4:3" is wrong?

Then I suggest you read through the entire thread.

Multi monitor users have a legit complaint. If anyone is saying it's too zoomed in, they might have a legit complain. But people merely comparing 4:3 and 16:9 and seeing that 16:9 has less FOV, do not have a legit complaint.
 
I'm getting significantly better mouse movement since the update, still not seeing many other changes though.

not me. Although it makes things a little bit better, the acceleration present when putting the sensitivity to 1 isn't as "square", it's a little less than prior to the patch. It's still there though.
 
And for the love of pete, FOV does NOT change for at least one aspect when you change FOV behavior. Do you understand the difference between FOV and FOV behavior?
They are intrinsically linked. Vert- indicates a change in the effective FOV (the vertical FOV or VFOV). Hor+ indicates a change in the effective horizontal FOV (HFOV). Achieving vert- at wide aspect ratios requires that the VFOV be reduced. Achieving hor+ at wide aspect ratios requires that the HFOV be increased.

When you change from behavior one to the other, the FOV will change for all aspects OTHER than baseline.
Correct. One cannot manipulate the FOV for the so-called "baseline" without manipulating the FOV.

If 16:9 is baseline, which the Cult of Rapture images suggest it is, then 16:9's FOV will not change, when the patch turns the game from Vert- to Hor+.
It already has. The effective field of view changes as demonstrated in the (rather bad) post-patch image Elizabeth posted, and also in the image Derangel posted. Let's walk through it.

If we assume a game has a 90 degree HFOV at 4:3, hor+ will result in an HFOV of approximately 100 degrees at 16:10 and approximately 106 degrees at 16:9. The vertical field of view remains the same despite the aspect ratio change.

The default HFOV in BS2 is 70 degrees at 4:3. It is also 70 degrees at 16:10, 16:9 and all other wide aspect ratios. The VFOV at 4:3 is currently X (too lazy to do the math at the moment). At 16:10, 16:9 and other wide aspect ratios, VFOV adjusts to become less than X. This describes vert- or vertical frame cropping.

In the recent patch, the behavior becomes hor+. The VFOV remains at X despite any changes in the aspect ratio (possibly excluding 5:4, which sometimes dictates an alternative behavior). The HFOV adjusts to suit the derived aspect ratio of the specified resolution. This describes hor+ or horizontal frame expansion.

You cannot change the behavior without resulting in a change in the effective field of view, be that the horizontal or vertical field of view (or the calculated diagonal FOV). As I've said, they are linked.

I think the only way to make you understand...
The only way you could make me "understand" is to completely alter reality. Sorry.

who said "wider than 4:3" is wrong?
Elizabeth Tobey.

...people merely comparing 4:3 and 16:9 and seeing that 16:9 has less FOV, do not have a legit complaint.
That is simply a matter of opinion.
 
Wow.

My experiences between Bioshock and Bioshock 2 are like night and day. The original just had everything going for it. This new game is just so f'ing problematic. What do we know about this 2K Marin?

It's got to be one of two things: either 2K Marin just sucks, or I undervalued the worth of Ken Levine. Maybe, without Levine's guidance, this game was just doomed to fail from the get go?
 
phide is right, Horz+ and Vert- are basically descriptions of the behaviour of the hFOV and vFOV when the aspect ratio is changed.

If the FOV system is in fact based off a so called baseline FOV for a certain aspect ratio off which all other FOVs are derived then that baseline aspect ratio will stay the same when the behaviour is changed from Vert- to Horz+
 
You guys are making the FOV argument way more difficult than it needs to be. If we were talking about movies, and wide-angle lenses, as opposed to resolutions, and scaling, all you'd need to know is that a lens with a wider angle would allow for more of the scenery to be shot.
 
Wow.

My experiences between Bioshock and Bioshock 2 are like night and day. The original just had everything going for it. This new game is just so f'ing problematic. What do we know about this 2K Marin?

It's got to be one of two things: either 2K Marin just sucks, or I undervalued the worth of Ken Levine. Maybe, without Levine's guidance, this game was just doomed to fail from the get go?

It just makes no sense how they couldn't learn lessons from the first one for the PC launch. Not having widescreen support? Seriously?? It takes all of probably 1 day to code in support with one person working on it .. come the fuck on 2k. Also why not code in the controller scheme? 2K keeps bitching that it would require such a big UI change .. so what ? People like playing this game with a controller I mean it was designed for one since we all know the console version got the true love treatment.

It just makes me sick that while so many people bitch about the PC gaming market in decline and while I refuse to believe that for the most part .. when a big game like this comes along full of bugs and half ass treatment it makes me quesiton whats really gonna happen in the future for PC titles. Console games are getting first priority when I don't believe they should .. PC games should get equal treatment and instead lately I've noticed PC ports get the shaft instead.
 
BioShock 2 PC patch released but new multiplayer issues found

The good news? It fixes a number of bugs in the game discovered between going gold and its release...The bad news? It does not have the much promised widescreen bug fix

The worst news? This new patch also managed to add a new bug in multiplayer mode where pressing the mouse button doesn't register in the game...

http://www.gamedaily.com/games/bios...ch-released-but-new-multiplayer-issues-found/
 
phide is right, Horz+ and Vert- are basically descriptions of the behaviour of the hFOV and vFOV when the aspect ratio is changed.

If the FOV system is in fact based off a so called baseline FOV for a certain aspect ratio off which all other FOVs are derived then that baseline aspect ratio will stay the same when the behaviour is changed from Vert- to Horz+

Everything you just said is in my posts. Except there's no "if" on a baseline aspect ratio. There always is. Historically it has been 4:3. Possibly 16:9 in some games these days.
 
They are intrinsically linked. Vert- indicates a change in the effective FOV (the vertical FOV or VFOV). Hor+ indicates a change in the effective horizontal FOV (HFOV). Achieving vert- at wide aspect ratios requires that the VFOV be reduced. Achieving hor+ at wide aspect ratios requires that the HFOV be increased.

But they're not the same. And all the Cult of Rapture post said was that the FOV behavior was incorrect, not the the FOV itself at 16:9 is incorrect.


Correct. One cannot manipulate the FOV for the so-called "baseline" without manipulating the FOV.

Remember for later in the post that you are telling me I'm right, in that changing FOV behavior is not = changing the FOV itself. But what about that 2nd sentence here? You're essentially saying "you can't do this thing unless you do this thing". Gee, that's brilliant.

It already has. The effective field of view changes as demonstrated in the (rather bad) post-patch image Elizabeth posted, and also in the image Derangel posted. Let's walk through it.

I'm sorry but are you blind? In the images posted on Cult of Rapture, 16:9 has the same FOV "before" and "after" the patch. It instead shows 4:3 and 16:10 getting LESS than what they have now. *keep in mind 16:10 and 16:9 labels on the 2nd image are clearly reversed by accident.

And there has been no changes to widescreen in the just-released MP patch according to Elizabeth on the 2k forums in the bioshock widescreen thread ~pg 19

If we assume a game has a 90 degree HFOV at 4:3, hor+ will result in an HFOV of approximately 100 degrees at 16:10 and approximately 106 degrees at 16:9. The vertical field of view remains the same despite the aspect ratio change.

nothing I've said contradicts this so not sure who're you're trying to educate

The default HFOV in BS2 is 70 degrees at 4:3. It is also 70 degrees at 16:10, 16:9 and all other wide aspect ratios. The VFOV at 4:3 is currently X (too lazy to do the math at the moment). At 16:10, 16:9 and other wide aspect ratios, VFOV adjusts to become less than X. This describes vert- or vertical frame cropping.

nothing I've said contradicts this so not sure who're you're trying to educate

In the recent patch, the behavior becomes hor+.

There is no patch that does this yet. It's still coming.

And here's where you're dead wrong and need to wrap your head around the idea of a baseline aspect:

The VFOV remains at X despite any changes in the aspect ratio (possibly excluding 5:4, which sometimes dictates an alternative behavior). The HFOV adjusts to suit the derived aspect ratio of the specified resolution. This describes hor+ or horizontal frame expansion.

It does not
remain at X as you defined it unless 4:3 IS the baseline. For all we know, and ALL THAT THE IMAGES SUGGEST, 16:9 is the baseline and the "VFOV" will remain at Z, where Z is the CURRENT pre-patch vertical FOV on 16:9. Thus, all narrow aspects than 16:9 will lose horizontal FOV and 16:9 will remain unchanged. Like in the pictures.

You cannot change the behavior without resulting in a change in the effective field of view, be that the horizontal or vertical field of view (or the calculated diagonal FOV). As I've said, they are linked.

Yes you can. You already admitted that earlier in this very post! I said you can and you said "correct"! Now you're contradicting yourself. One aspect's "effective field of view" WILL not change when you change the behavior. Is that one aspect 16:9?

Elizabeth Tobey.

Where? It's not in the Cult of Rapture post. I can't respond to quotes you pull out of the air. You need to link them.

That is simply a matter of opinion.

Informed opinion. Uninformed opinion thinks you can merely compare 4:3 and 16:9 and determine who's getting how much of the intended FOV.


The only way you could make me "understand" is to completely alter reality. Sorry.

Which is the same as saying "the only way to make me understand is to make me understand". Because the reality is, you really don't.
 
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Remember for later in the post that you are telling me I'm right, in that changing FOV behavior is not = changing the FOV itself.
When did I say that? I perhaps was referring to the FOV setting (the value for which the HFOV is defined) and did not properly clarify, but I don't recall having done that.

I'm sorry but are you blind? In the images posted on Cult of Rapture, 16:9 has the same FOV "before" and "after" the patch.
You're correct. I had a difficult time trying to understand what was going on on the dim monitor at the office (and, as I said, they're bad example images). That being said, what Elizabeth said would be happening for users of widescreen monitors doesn't jive with the images she's posted. Why? Because in those images, there is no HFOV increase. She stated quite bluntly:
That means that now your view will expand on the right and the left if you have a widescreen monitor, and look like the image below.
In the images, there is no such expansion from pre-patch to post-patch. This suggests that either A) Elizabeth is miss-communicating the changes taking place or B) the example images aren't representative of what is actually going to be happening with the patch. Both cannot be true.

There is no patch that does this yet. It's still coming.
Derangel seems to have found one.

It does not[/U][/B] remain at X as you defined it unless 4:3 IS the baseline. For all we know, and ALL THAT THE IMAGES SUGGEST, 16:9 is the baseline and the "VFOV" will remain at Z, where Z is the CURRENT pre-patch vertical FOV on 16:9.
The images suggest this, yes. Elizabeth's comments suggest otherwise.

Yes you can. You already admitted that earlier in this very post! I said you can and you said "correct"! Now you're contradicting yourself. One aspect's "effective field of view" WILL not change when you change the behavior. Is that one aspect 16:9?
If the 'baseline' is 16:9, then what Elizabeth suggests of the patch is inaccurate, or at the very least, totally misleading.

Where? It's not in the Cult of Rapture post. I can't respond to quotes you pull out of the air. You need to link them.
She did not say that verbatim. You can derive such, however, based on this quote:
That means that now your view will expand on the right and the left if you have a widescreen monitor
This suggests quite plainly that the patch will expand the HFOV for widescreen users and that the current behavior for widescreen monitors is not as intended. If the HFOV pre-patch is 70, then post-patch, we would expect that the HFOV will then become greater than 70. In the example images posted, this behavior is not demonstrated.

So, as I said, either what Elizabeth is suggesting is totally false or the images posted are incorrect. Why what's being said and what's being demonstrated are two entirely different things is beyond my ability comprehend.

Informed opinion. Uninformed opinion thinks you can merely compare 4:3 and 16:9 and determine who's getting how much of the intended FOV.
There is something more problematic with a low FOV than simply 'getting less than 4:3 users'. An excessively narrow field of view can result in disorientation and nausea in a fairly short period of time, as many people experienced playing HL2 (which has an HFOV of 75 degrees at 4:3). If BS2 were to expand the 4:3 view such that the VFOV remains the same, but the HFOV increases, this becomes much less of a potential issue (as opposed to the VFOV decreasing as HFOV increases) given that the VFOV at 4:3 in BS2 currently seems fairly adequate.

However, if the VFOV remains unchanged from pre-patch to post-patch, this potential issue is not addressed and we're still going to be reliant on manipulating the FOV cvar to achieve the higher VFOV necessary to eliminate the disorienting 'zoom' factor. Thus, I don't really see the point.
 
Holy crap stop arguing. It's just semantics and how you define the baseline.

I for one don't really care. I finally gave in and I've been playing it with the FOV fix (145 FOV). Everything's fine in eyefinity except that the 2D menus are stretched but readable so I don't care.

If you care about FOV, just use the fix... it's worlds better than say the Borderlands "fix".
 
official patch just dropped

http://www.bioshock2forums.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1906

no FOV fix or mouse fix still, no care. I think there's not enough outrage about the mouse sensitivity/acceleration, so they pay no attention to it

Apparently the patch was sent to MS before the game launched. Someone found the build date for it and its like seven days old. So it took MS 5-6 days to certify and release the patch. Lovely.
 
Apparently the patch was sent to MS before the game launched. Someone found the build date for it and its like seven days old. So it took MS 5-6 days to certify and release the patch. Lovely.

Yeah I just found this out when I loaded up Bioshock 2 expecting a message from GFWL that a new update is available and nothing

This crap's a total disaster.
 
I have the new patch installed but thank goodness I'm still on the single player and havn't tried the multiplayer yet...seems like the patch is fine for the single player
 
So, as I said, either what Elizabeth is suggesting is totally false or the images posted are incorrect. Why what's being said and what's being demonstrated are two entirely different things is beyond my ability comprehend.

This is all we need to agree on. (I have no issues with the rest of your post either). It's the same as before, when they said Bioshock 1 widescreen was as intended, and then issued a Hor+ baseline 4:3 patch anyways.

Even though the images suggest 16:9 is baseline, and it's totally reasonable for a game these days to be so, I'm going to guess that 4:3 is the baseline, and that 16:9 will get more FOV than it currently has, based on reports about 16:9 feeling too zoomed in currently, and that Bioshock 1's baseline was 4:3.

My only issue in that case is that PS3 and 360 deserve the same change.
 
My only issue in that case is that PS3 and 360 deserve the same change.
Agreed.

Elizabeth is nothing but a PR tool
You don't get into the PR game to play it straight. I'd have much more respect for her and 2K if she had just come out in the beginning and said "Yeah, we fucked you guys. We're sorry. We'll fix it and keep on fixing it until you're happy". Instead, we get the "Oh, it was fixed, but it became unfixed due to a silly bug fix!" nonsense.
 
I bought Bioshock 2 day one, while I don't regret it as I feel I got my money's worth, I'm going to be more wary of buying day 1 purchases

always people seem to have nothing but bad things to say about new releases.
 
Hi guys - have written a app to fix FOV/Zoom and move the helmet position - it was written on windows 7 64bit, original non-steam version of bioshock, non-patched - have not tested it on any other machines or configurations so milage may vary (definitely let me know), see screenshots below.... the fix also effects the cutscenes as well as you can see in the video down the bottom....

Original View:
bioshock220100215014556.png


Examples of modified FOV and Helmet location:
bioshock220100215014623.png

bioshock220100215014611.png

bioshock220100215014614.png

bioshock220100215014615.png

bioshock220100215014618.png

bioshock220100215014739.png


App Screenshot
screenshotxz.png


Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvfLXbFPIoM

Download: http://www.mediafire.com/?zmmy1tzztyz

[Updated to support Version 1.001]
Download: http://www.mediafire.com/?qgwzmtznzne
 
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^ That's actually hilarious. I played through the entire game at 145 FOV with eyefinity and just now realized there should be a helmet on the screen. Although, now that I look at it, I'd prefer it without a helmet.
 
Hi guys - have written a app to fix FOV/Zoom and move the helmet position - it was written on windows 7 64bit, original non-steam version of bioshock, non-patched - have not tested it on any other machines or configurations so milage may vary (definitely let me know), see screenshots below.... the fix also effects the cutscenes as well as you can see in the video down the bottom....

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvfLXbFPIoM

Download: http://www.mediafire.com/?zmmy1tzztyz

[Updated to support Version 1.001]
Download: http://www.mediafire.com/?qgwzmtznzne

Added this fix to the original post, used the updated version for a download link.
 
It's easier for us. If it's defined vertically, there's no FOV adjustment required when moving from 4:3 to 16:10 or 16:9 or any other wide aspect ratio. It's the same effect as offering a cvar to adjust the horizontal FOV but adding space to the sizes depending upon the desired aspect ratio (as it's done in id Tech 4 and Source). To bring up Carmack again, he had considered having the cvar in Tech 3 apply to the VFOV, but decided that it would cause too much user confusion if people were to put in "fov 90" and get the "big fisheye". I assume Valve had the same thought when they were developing Source.

For Eyefinity users in particular, not having to adjust the FOV for the correct representation is beneficial.

If you think you can find a VFOV that works for every screen you are ignorant of what FOV is. A VFOV of say 45 for 4:3 and 45 for 16:10 can look quite different. The reason for this is the PHYSICAL HEIGHT of the screen. A 16:10 monitor of same vertical screen size is shorter than a 4:3 monitor. Basically it can have the look of seeing too much vertical area if you use the same VFOV setting.

So as I said, offer some nice defaults for aspect ratios (or simply use a VFOV setting) but ENSURE there are variables users can play with to adjust it. It matters ZERO whether they give you HFOV or VFOV settings to work with, you can achieve the frame you want by changing either of them.

Why you and the other guy are arguing about "baselines" and all this other nonsense is beyond me, it has nothing to do with the conversation when it comes to fixing the shit.
 
A VFOV of say 45 for 4:3 and 45 for 16:10 can look quite different.
The frames themselves will be identical apart from the extra horizontal space for those frames rendered at 16:10.

A 16:10 monitor of same vertical screen size is shorter than a 4:3 monitor.
...what?

...you can achieve the frame you want by changing either of them.
Obviously.

...it has nothing to do with the conversation when it comes to fixing the shit.
Nor does this.
 
Yeah, I have to agree with Derangel, the FOV argument is starting to get annoying - maybe take it into PM if you want to continue.
 
The frames themselves will be identical apart from the extra horizontal space for those frames rendered at 16:10.

No it won't.

An image that is stretched 11 inches vertically will look differently than an image stretched 13 inches vertically on a screen placed same distance from viewer. The screen dimensions and it's distance from the viewer determines the ideal FOV. The fact you don't know this is why you are saying ignorant things about FOV.

Try programming a game and understanding physics/maths before you profess guru status on such topics.
 
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