Bit-tech 5770 Preview

See I think a lot of people are missing the point. This card isn't targeted to the super high end, this is a part for the midrange that will offer power similar to existing high end GPU's. I know I am not the typical user here on the [H], but I know plenty of guys like me. I build once every couple of years, and tend to buy the majority of my hardware a generation old. I have several reasons for this, firstly is cost. I am a cheap prick and proud of it. My day's of being on the cutting edge of CPU/memory are well past me at this point. I got sick of dropping large amounts of cash (relatively speaking) for modest incremental gains. Secondly it allows me to get a better part in certain areas of the build where I can see real performance gains. Where I save money on a less expensive CPU, I can spend more on a better GPU than I would normally buy. My last build is a perfect example of this. I stayed Athlon X2, so I could dump a little more cash into my 8800GTS. This current build still plays all my games at the resolution I play at pretty well by my standards.

My new build is really shaping up right now, and I think the biggest mistake I made in my last build is not looking at heat and power consumption. This new GPU is looking amazing for my needs, is in the price range I had set for myself. Most importantly to me look at the power numbers. 18w idle? 108w at load? Sign me up man. For near 275GTX performance, or even 260GTX I will be a damn happy camper. Coming from the 8800GTS (320mb) card I think the performance will blow me away for around the same money I paid 2 years ago. This looks like an upgrade for me that is worth the dollars, and I suspect guys with my type of performance levels are who this card is targeted at. Not the guys running 9800GTX in SLI. Let's hope I can get one before they all sell out the first week.
 
Brent_Justice said:
but what if that isn't the case
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You are such a tease. I can't wait to see the numbers.

I'm with Ghettobox here, the HD5770/HD5750 is my price range. I love my HD4830 (paid $80). It runs all my games great on my 22" LCD (1680x1050). I usually upgrade every year or two, and it only costs me about $50 usually after selling my old card. At 1680x1050 I run max settings in most games and see this as the optimal performance/price range for both video card and monitor price/size. My entire gaming PC cost me less than my PS3 (less than $400 without monitor cost) and runs much cleaner graphics.
 
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If it isn't the case, then the product would be eating into 5850 sales and makes no sense. From a marketing perspective it would make sense for the product to be somewhat comparable at lower resolutions and no AA, but to do more poorly the higher you push it.
 
Matrices said:
If it isn't the case, then the product would be eating into 5850 sales and makes no sense. From a marketing perspective it would make sense for the product to be somewhat comparable at lower resolutions and no AA, but to do more poorly the higher you push it.
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That hasn't been my argument at all. My only concern is, if this is going to be a 4890 replacement, it had better have enough bandwidth to produce the performance we've come to expect from the 4890.

What, you think that an 800 shader card could possibly compete with the 5850? My concern is that it won't compete with the 4890. And Brent has alluded that I should not be concerned, so I won't be.
 
Matrices said:
If it isn't the case, then the product would be eating into 5850 sales and makes no sense. From a marketing perspective it would make sense for the product to be somewhat comparable at lower resolutions and no AA, but to do more poorly the higher you push it.
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No, the HD5850 is a good amount faster than the HD4890/HD4870. The HD5770 would be fine for ATI running at that performance and price.
 
dderidex said:
All I know is - I swear to gods, after the Radeon 4770 HSF irritation - if this thing isn't single-slot with that power envelope and that heat generation, I'm going to FLIP THE FUCK OUT.

Just so ya know. Us SFF owners need some love, too! And there is no reason, as efficient as these beasties are, to need that ginormous HSF on them!
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it depends on the market they're shooting for. If it ends up =>4890 then they might slap on a dual slot cooler and let the sff people get 5750. I know that the thermals are much better than 4xxx, but my 4850 fan used to get extremely annoying when I pushed it at all.
 
Matrices said:
If it isn't the case, then the product would be eating into 5850 sales and makes no sense. From a marketing perspective it would make sense for the product to be somewhat comparable at lower resolutions and no AA, but to do more poorly the higher you push it.
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From a marketing product segmentation perspective, maybe no, but remember that graph about sales volume at various price points? The 'small die' strategy is designed around the concept of hitting those high volume price points. One problem with the HD4850 is that it was based on the top-tier die of the time but without the top-tier price, of course harvesting dies was useful but not nearly as profitable. The HD5700 are *not* based on the top-tier die so from a profit perspective they fit in to the small die strategy very well. If AMD can make $x on either a 5850 or a 5770 it's the same profit, just less revenue.

And not that they knew it at the time of the GPU's design but with the economy how it is people who still want their hardware fix are looking for value. If HD4850 near-launch street prices are any indication we'll be seeing great pricing on these. The holidays mess with that but holidays tend to have special discount deals galore too :)
 
so much for the claims that the memory bandwidth wouldnt matter. the card performs just like most people expected which is more or less with the 4870. 56tmu and 24rop seem illogical for 800sp and 128bit bus. seems like it should be 40tmu and 16rop.


"Perhaps we were expecting too much, but the Radeon HD 5770 was a little underwhelming in our books. Where performance is concerned, we expected it to be positioned in between the Radeon HD 4890 and HD 4870, but our tests have shown that it was mostly a smidge lower than the HD 4870 1GB editions; which puts it closer to the 512MB edition of the Radeon HD 4870."

"The results seem to indicate the shortcoming of the 128-bit memory bus that the 'mainstream' Radeon HD 5770 possesses."
 
cannondale06 said:
so much for the claims that the memory bandwidth wouldnt matter. the card performs just like most people expected which is more or less with the 4870. 56tmu and 24rop seem illogical for 800sp and 128bit bus. seems like it should be 40tmu and 16rop.


"Perhaps we were expecting too much, but the Radeon HD 5770 was a little underwhelming in our books. Where performance is concerned, we expected it to be positioned in between the Radeon HD 4890 and HD 4870, but our tests have shown that it was mostly a smidge lower than the HD 4870 1GB editions; which puts it closer to the 512MB edition of the Radeon HD 4870."

"The results seem to indicate the shortcoming of the 128-bit memory bus that the 'mainstream' Radeon HD 5770 possesses."
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This calls for the biggest "I told you so" EVER.



...wait for it...






I TOLD YOU SO!

What good is a card with 4890 pixel-pushing power when it only has slightly more bandwidth than a 4850?

Damn ATI for not making a 192-bit bus for that card (or 256-bit for that matter). I'm really disappointed here, because I never expected the card to perform worse than the 4870, just the 4890. Now, until we see the 5830, there's gonna be a giant performance gap between the 5770 and the 5850 (shades of the 8600GTS to 8800GTS gap).

and believe me, with that huge performance gap, people are going to buy the 4890 (until the stock runs out, and then what are they going to buy?)
 
Not trying to cause any issues, but I have a few questions on that review at the least. Are all the 5XXX reviews running beta drivers? Secondly after reading it over and seeing the 5770 able to hold it's own against all of the cards in most games up to 16x10 resolutions, why do they conclude the gtx260/gtx275 are far superior cards? Did I miss something?

I'll wait for a couple more reviews, but am hoping for something in between gtx260/gtx275 performance levels. At least up to 16x10 (as that's the resolution my new monitor runs at), with various AA levels running.
 
That review had alot of good information but was still lacking.

1. Poor test RIG configuration used. They should have went P55 or X58.
2. No Crossfire tests. Makes no sense they would have 2 HD5770s and not do some Crossfire test.
3. Stock CCC settings for over clocking doesn't really give a good idea of performance of HD5770 when overclocked to the extremes like most enthusiast would do.

Despite the things I didn't like about the review it still showed its expected strong points being low power consumption, low heat, Direct X11 technology and the "eye infinity" technology.

Dry review IMO.
 
SonDa5 said:
That review had alot of good information but was still lacking.

1. Poor test RIG configuration used. They should have went P55 or X58.
2. No Crossfire tests. Makes no sense they would have 2 HD5770s and not do some Crossfire test.
3. Stock CCC settings for over clocking doesn't really give a good idea of performance of HD5770 when overclocked to the extremes like most enthusiast would do.

Despite the things I didn't like about the review it still showed its expected strong points being low power consumption, low heat, Direct X11 technology and the "eye infinity" technology.

Dry review IMO.
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You are still completely oblivious to the fact that NO ENTHUSIAST WOULD PURCHASE A 5770. No enthusiast in their right mind would actually consider the 5770 an enthusiast card even if they overclocked the hell out of it. It is a mainstream card that doesn't even offer competition against current offerings from this generation or even the last! Why can't you understand that?

Brain damage I guess
 
edifyingkarma said:
You are still completely oblivious to the fact that NO ENTHUSIAST WOULD PURCHASE A 5770. No enthusiast in their right mind would actually consider the 5770 an enthusiast card even if they overclocked the hell out of it. It is a mainstream card that doesn't even offer competition against current offerings from this generation or even the last! Why can't you understand that?

Brain damage I guess
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:confused:

Believe it or not there are enthusiast who would love to have the top end video card technology but can't afford it. :eek: Surprised?

For those enthusiast they resort to getting their fix by buying the best video cards that they can afford.

HD5770 may be a great over clocking card. The price is nice. Time will tell how well the HD5770 over clocks.

hwbot.org keeps track of all gpu performance and they havn't any HD5770 data yet. In time there should be much more information that revels the over clocking ability of the HD5770.
 
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SonDa5 said:
:confused:

Believe it or not there are enthusiast who would love to have the top end video card technology but can't afford it. :eek: Surprised?

For those enthusiast they resort to getting their fix by buying the best video cards what they can afford.

HD5770 may be a great over clocking card. The price is nice. Time will tell how well the HD5770 over clocks.

hwbot.org keeps track of all gpu performance and they havn't any HD5770 data yet. In time there should be much more information that revels the over clocking ability of the HD5770.
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something you cant get though your head is that you arent gong to overclock that memory bandwidth problem away. the slower clocked 4870 already keeps up and sometimes beats the 5770. a 5770 is not a good enthusiasts card because its really no faster than the 4870 which is somewhat old now. it only makes a decent card if low power is your concern or you have something fairly slow to begin with that you are upgrading. if the rest of your system is good then the 5850 is the lowest to go if gaming above 1680x1050 is your primary use. surely a 5830 will come out to fill this large $100 price and performance gap.
 
cannondale06 said:
something you cant get though your head is that you arent gong to overclock that memory bandwidth problem away. the slower clocked 4870 already keeps up and sometimes beats the 5770. a 5770 is not a good enthusiasts card because its really no faster than the 4870 which is very old now, it only nakes a decent card if low power is your concern or you have something fairly slow to begin with.
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Time and real benchmark comparisons will tell. That is why I posted the HWBOT web site. Tons of great video card performance data over there.
 
Originally Posted by defaultluser
if the memory bandwidth holds it back at these resolutions
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Originally Posted by Brent_Justice
but what if that isn't the case
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Originally Posted by defaultluser
if this is going to be a 4890 replacement
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Originally Posted by Brent_Justice
I wouldn't say that.
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Brent, the next time you want to intentionally mislead the forums and start a flame war, don't get me involved.

I really don't like the manipulative deception game. And don't give me the NDA bullshit. You didn't have to say ANYTHING.

Your review tonight at midnight will speak for itself.
 
Nothing I said was false.

High resolution with high AA playable - Check

Not comparable to 4890 - Check

Yes, the eval will speak for itself.
 
Brent_Justice said:
Nothing I said was false.

High resolution with high AA playable - Check

Not comparable to 4890 - Check

Yes, the eval will speak for itself.
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Looking forward to the review.


Rules and member respect seems lacking lately. I'm surprised at the lack of respect that certain members have for each other. "Thread crapping" is rampant.
 
SonDa5 said:
Looking forward to the review.


Rules and member respect seems lacking lately. I'm surprised at the lack of respect that certain members have for each other. "Thread crapping" is rampant.
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he is basically saying what that review says. the 5770 is going to be bandwidth limited compared to the 4870 and 4890. this card is nothing special if you are a gamer looking to upgrade.
 
Brent_Justice said:
Nothing I said was false.
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Except for here:

MY ORIGINAL POST
And that's why I'm saying bandwidth matters. The 4890 is a very capable card for gaming at 1920x1200 (or even 2560x1600!), and that's a resolution where memory bandwidth becomes key, especially with 8xAA and 16xAF. [H]ardOCP's own review paints the 4890 as an excellent 1920x1200 and up card!

The 5770 has similar horsepower to the 4890, but it may not be as popular a card if the memory bandwidth holds it back at these resolutions. People may opt for the good-old 4890 instead (it's not going anywhere for the foreseeable future, and should be at a competitive price).
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I was stating that the 5770 would not be a good purchase at $160 if the performance didn't outclass a 4870 1GB ($150 street price) or come close to the 4890 (street price $190). I made the statement that memory bandwidth might hold-back theoretical performance. And you replied with this fanning of the flames:

but what if that isn't the case
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And you still maintain that this was not a false statement? You fed the fires with uncertainty.

Since someone has already published, we don't have to play games anymore. The card CAN run AA at higher resolutions, but not as WELL as the 4870 or the 4890 (i.e. the card is purposefully castrated). And considering the price, I'm quite underwhelmed with this release, and quite disappointed in you firing-up so much anticipation for it.

That is my point.
 
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Brent_Justice said:
depends what you are upgrading from... and how much you can spend
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4670 and I have around $160 to spend, and I want something with low idle power because my utilities are insane at my apartment. I only game at 1680x1050. Perfect card or no?
 
Shadowssong said:
4670 and I have around $160 to spend, and I want something with low idle power because my utilities are insane at my apartment. I only game at 1680x1050. Perfect card or no?
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it sounds like the perfect upgrade for you. with your cpu you are easily looking at double the performance of the 4670. why did you build a pc with the most expensive platform and put such a mediocre card in there in the first place??
 
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