Dell 2408WFP Now Available

Skakruk said:
Can anyone point me to some input lag measurements for the A01 and A02 versions of this monitor? Do those revisions now make it suitable for fast gaming?

Also, this isn't a 'Wide Gamut' monitor is it (I see some mention of 'oversaturated colours'? that what put me off the HP LP2465W.

EDIT: I found some numbers for the A01 revision and this statement: "The A01 revision of the Dell 2408WFP was intended to improve the input lag. This was measured at up to 60 ms on the previous model. Although a reduction has been achieved, the result is still no more than satisfactory for real gamers." - is the A02 revision better still?
Click to expand...

Input lag measurement of 33ms average in this thread under the recommendations:

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=31&threadid=2049206&enterthread=y

It is wide gamut, and it does have the "oversaturated" colors characteristic.
 
Update: I returned the monitor after 2 weeks for the following reasons:
1) Buzzing sound coming from the lcd
2) Found a stuck pixel
3) Not being able to calibrate to sRGB made life too difficult for me
4) I can't put my finger on it but the text/sharpness of the display was annoying, I much prefer reading documents on my 17" panel instead
5) Had connections issues with my late 2008 MBP and my hackintosh

I am now back to my P-MVA vx2025wm and I find the overall image quality much better except the blacks are not as good as the Dell.

I also wanted to say that Dell's support is awful. I wanted to return the monitor and get my money back and they kept on insisting to exchange it and I got hung up on twice trying to get to Dell's "customer support". Finally I got to the "resolution center" after 2 hours on the phone and they said I cannot get a refund because it has been over 30 days since the ORDER DATE (not the DELIVERY DATE). Eventually after bitching and moaning I got the refund and the shipping label to send it back.

I have had my 2408 for 6 days now. It is replacing my 20" vx2025wm (S-MVA) which I was very happy with, but I switched to a mac a few months ago and the OS greatly benefits from larger lcds rather than multiple lcds.

Things I have issues with:
1) Wide gamut cannot emulate the sRGB correctly. Which poses a problem when doing web design because I cannot see what the majority of people will see (but I have 2 other PVA panels right next to the 2408 so it is not that big a deal). Calibrated with Spyder3.

2) When I turn the monitor on OSX it seems to re-calibrate the displays again (that solid blue screen comes up up) and I have to wait 4 seconds before I can do anything.

3) Viewing angles are good, but are similiar to my old vx2025wm so I was expecting the angles to be noticiably better.

4) The default brightness is way to bright. I have mine set to brightness 0 and contrast 40 which is usable, but I get a little worried if the backlight will dim prematurely.

Other notes:
1) Colours are amazing. Even though wide gamut is difficult to work with professionaly it is really nice to look at.

2) Backlight bleed is minimal and unnoticable at brightness = 0. Better than my vx2025wm.

Overall I am extremely happy with the unit. I would have liked to have the HP LP2475w but I got the dell for $430 (Canadian) and the HP was $780ish (Canadian).

newlcd.jpg


my.php


The only noticable colour shifting was on solid purple. It was worse than my vx2025wm
newlcd4.jpg


I could never quite get it to look like how an sRGB image should look like.
newlcd5.jpg


my.php


newlcd7.jpg
 
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markd said:
I have had my 2408 for 6 days now. It is replacing my 20" vx2025wm (S-MVA) which I was very happy with, but I switched to a mac a few months ago and the OS greatly benefits from larger lcds rather than multiple lcds.

Things I have issues with:
1) Wide gamut cannot emulate the sRGB correctly. Which poses a problem when doing web design because I cannot see what the majority of people will see (but I have 2 other PVA panels right next to the 2408 so it is not that big a deal). Calibrated with Spyder3.

2) When I turn the monitor on OSX it seems to re-calibrate the displays again (that solid blue screen comes up up) and I have to wait 4 seconds before I can do anything.

3) Viewing angles are good, but are similiar to my old vx2025wm so I was expecting the angles to be noticiably better.

4) The default brightness is way to bright. I have mine set to brightness 0 and contrast 40 which is usable, but I get a little worried if the backlight will dim prematurely.

Other notes:
1) Colours are amazing. Even though wide gamut is difficult to work with professionaly it is really nice to look at.

2) Backlight bleed is minimal and unnoticable at brightness = 0. Better than my vx2025wm.

Overall I am extremely happy with the unit. I would have liked to have the HP LP2475w but I got the dell for $430 (Canadian) and the HP was $780ish (Canadian).
Click to expand...

Thanks for the mini review!
I just bought one of these for use with my new unibody macbook pro. I'm curious, did you notice any issues with text reproduction in Mac OSX? A lot of people have been complaining that text looks fuzzy because of the wide color gamut of this monitor. For some reason, smaller text has reddish/brownish halos surrounding it. Can you comment on the sharpness of your text in OSX on the 2408 in comparison to your other monitors? Any issues? Also, have you encountered any other general issues with this monitor and OSX besides the ones listed above? Of course Dell doesn't support using this monitor with Macs, but there's really no good reason why it wouldn't work perfectly with them.

My 2408 arrived today with an "A02 revision (made in mexico)" stamped on the box, but I can't set it up until the weekend. I expect they have worked out some kinks by now. Dell is churning through their supply. My panel production date says April 2009 :eek:
 
The text is sharper on the 17", but I wouldn't notice if I didn't have the two side by side. The default sharpness setting does produce halos, so you have to lower it to 40.

If I compare the letter "l" they look identical when close up to the 17" and 24", but when you sit back the 24" looks a tiny bit blurry, so I think it is either the pixel pitch or the SPVA alignment of the pixels (if that is the right term).

There is no other issue with osx and this monitor, right now it is connected to a hackintosh so that 5 second issue may not happen with my MBP (same as yours).
 
Why is this monitor so cheap now? Is it a bad buy? I was going to get the 24" HC version a while back because I thought it was the best 24" in my price range $~500-700 but now I dont even see it on dells website, only the 30" has an HC version. Is this monitor worse than the previous 24" HC version?

Well I had to put off buying the monitor for a bit but now I am looking again and see that this monitor is now under $500? My current 24" is the 2407WFPb Rev A04 and I just want something that is better than it.

I was really hoping to get another dell because I wanted them to match somewhat (I currently have a 24" view sonic as my 2nd monitor and I hate how they dont line up nicely when I squish them together for gaming). I do gaming and photo editing.
 
CRAP you gotta be kidding me... thats ridiculous

Im still curious about the HC version if anyone has some input
 
Anyone here know when or if Dell is replacing this model with a 2409wfp model? Any timeline?

I really want this model, but input lag seems like it will ruin it for me. I'm very interested in seeing how a02 revision is. I've been looking everywhere for a measurement of input lag on a02... cant find anything yet.
 
Can anyone take pictures of the screen with images containing pure red and green please? So i can see how the wide gamut is
 
IsaacMM said:
Can anyone take pictures of the screen with images containing pure red and green please? So i can see how the wide gamut is
Click to expand...

You can't because you won't be able to tell the difference on your monitor, unless you compare it side by side with another monitor.
 
IsaacMM said:
Do you need to buy anything to calibrate this monitor?
Click to expand...

A calibrator like Pantone Huey or a Spyder is needed if you need accurate calibration. Doing it by eye is usually not very accurate.

I just got 2 2408WFPs delivered yesterday. I was thinking of getting IPS-based LCDs (LP2475w) but decided to buy the 2408s last week when they were $400 a piece. Luckily, I pulled the trigger a few hours before Dell listened to VulcaN and jacked them back up to $600.

The biggest gripe I have is definitely the off-angle color shift from the S-PVA panel, but I like the saturated color look, hopefully it doesn't screw with my hobby graphics work. Both of mine are perfect panels, zero dead/stuck pixels. With brightness/contrast toned down from factory default 50/50, staring at the screen doesn't burn my eyes.

I will note that I generally don't game on the PC anymore, and if I do, it's typically not FPSes.

I am overall happy, I freed up a ton of desk space even with 2 24" LCDs, and it'll be great to use 2 monitors again for working. The monitor I was using before that was a Sony FW900 CRT, and one of those pretty much ate up my entire desk. The FW900 was also pretty much an oven and my room would be incredibly hot in the summer with it on. I will keep the FW900 around for judging color accuracy if it's really important, but for now it's going into storage in the basement as I have no where to put it.

I also bought through Dell Small Business, which I think still uses a different set of call center operators from Dell Home. I haven't had issues with Dell SB service before if I had an issue.
 
markd said:
The only noticable colour shifting was on solid purple. It was worse than my vx2025wm
newlcd4.jpg
Click to expand...

I am also seeing this. The left side appears to be brighter. Is this a characteristic of the panel?

I ordered two of these, but I am only using one at the moment. If this is how they are, then I will most likely return them.

Edit: I just cannot seem to get used to the wide gamut color. When browsing, colors seem faded. As a test I went back to my LG 246wp (P-MVA), and I just find it easier to read and view pages.
 
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Hi All,

I just received a 2408WFPb A02 as a replacement for my 2405WFP for an issue it had sagging an inch to the right.

My question: I think my 2405WFP panel is great, and issue is just with the stand (why they insisted on sending an entire new replacement is beyond me) - so I could just swap stands. The 2408WFPb looks great except the backlight bleeding in left top & bottom corners is a little annoying. Is the 2408WFP significantly better all around than the 2405WFP and I'd be a fool to keep the 2405? I'd be using it primarily for gaming

..I could try for another 2408WFP, though my understanding is that the backlight bleeding is common?

Also, Dell didn't ask for my CC# when sending the replacement... I suppose I could keep both, though won't as would be dishonest... just thought was strange

Thanks!
 
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Is this thing still worth getting? Dell Small and Medium buisness has it for 549 reguary but has an instant savings on it which put its 429.99. Is this worth this or should I look into other options?
 
ern said:
Is this thing still worth getting? Dell Small and Medium buisness has it for 549 reguary but has an instant savings on it which put its 429.99. Is this worth this or should I look into other options?
Click to expand...

That is a good price. I picked one up last month for $489 and have been very happy with it. I did not experience any of the problems others have complained about, inlcuding input lag (it's an A02 rev.) I don't have the equipment to measure input lag objectively but it hasn't been an issue for me in COD4 or Warhead.
 
Its alot of money but hey I spent 700 on my nec wgmx2 20.1. I really love this monitor but i want 24 inches. I would hope that the a02 fixes all the past issues. If not this one then i'll probably look into the hp2475
 
coolrunner84 said:
I am also seeing this. The left side appears to be brighter. Is this a characteristic of the panel?

I ordered two of these, but I am only using one at the moment. If this is how they are, then I will most likely return them.

Edit: I just cannot seem to get used to the wide gamut color. When browsing, colors seem faded. As a test I went back to my LG 246wp (P-MVA), and I just find it easier to read and view pages.
Click to expand...


I just recieved mine today. I also have a very noticeable uniformity issue. It's very bright on the left side and darker on the right. (it also has a bright pixel)

I'm getting a replacement Monday and if it's not better I'll be back to the drawing board.
 
(Made a new thread for my post (since it became so lengthy), but thought it would also be useful in this thread).

Just got my Dell 2408WFP revision A02 in the mail today (ordered it July 3rd at 2PM EST (GMT -5) from Dell Small Business for $395.10 + tax (free shipping) after a 10% coupon code. Sales tax here is 6% so the total was $418.81 after tax. I ordered it with the stock, 3-year warranty for no additional charge.

This is first monitor that I've bought since the CRT era was in its prime (Summer 2003). My old monitor was a ViewSonic E90f+SB 19" (18" viewable) fullscreen 4:3 flatscreen CRT. It's maximum resolution was 1792 x 1344. Recommended was 1280 x 1024 @ 76Hz, though I used it mostly at 1600 x 1200 @ 65Hz for desktop work, and 1280 x 960 @ 76Hz for gaming. I use it via the built-in VGA (D-Sub) cable and the included DVI to VGA converter from eVGA. I used to use this monitor on my old gaming rig too, which had an ATi Radeon 9800 Pro (256MB).

I'm running this Dell widescreen LCD at 1920 x 1200 @ 60Hz, off a Monster DVI 400 cable, plugged into the 1st DVI port on the card and on the monitor, into an eVGA Superclocked nVidia GeForce 8800 GTS (G90) 640MB PCI-express 16x video card. I am running what is currently the latest drivers for my card: 186.18.

I use MS Windows XP Pro (32-bit) SP3.

I took the monitor out of the box, plugged it in, updated the driver and color profile from the CD it came with, but otherwise I am using the monitor with typical Plug N Play / factory default settings.

I confirmed that my sharpness control moves in increments of 10 instead of 25.

-----------------------

That being said, I would first like to review "input lag / input delay" as that's the main thing on people's minds when looking for info on this monitor:

I took the time to read a thread about measuring input lag: http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1327679 , and while using inputlag.exe from http://tft.vanity.dk/ showed that my CRT was between ~0 to ~30ms slower than the Dell, even though the stop watch program shows this to be true, I still definitely get a very subtle feeling that the mouse cursor is a fraction of a second behind my movements on the LCD.

I took pictures with my Canon PowerShot S3 IS , and set the camera to Tv mode which gives shutter speed priority for the shots.

Perhaps there is a better way to measure input lag?

My results from measuring the input lag baffle me: according to the numbers, my CRT is slower than the LCD, and not the other way around. I tried multiple resolutions in clone mode: (1920 x 1200 , 1280 x 1024, and 1600 x 1200), the CRT lost in all 3 resolutions. I even tried swapping which monitor was considering the "main/priority" monitor, and this had no effect on the results.

Regardless of these results, my mouse cursor did feel subtly different from when I used it on my CRT. I don't know if this is input lag or not, it could just be the massive change in DPI. I use a Logitech MX310 USB, wired, optical mouse, with the latest drivers, on a home-made mousepad and wrist rest.

My main test to see if I liked how it felt was to play the game that I'm most used to: Wolfenstein: Enemy Terrtitory w/ the 2.60b patch and the latest ET Pro. I edited my profile config to be sure the game would properly utilize my 1920 x 1200 widescreen LCD at the full resolution and refresh rate, and set my Field of Vision to 115 (increased from the default 90).

While I would like to remind everyone that I've only used this monitor for ~8 hours, I did not notice negative effects on my gaming as the result of the 6ms response time or any possible input lag.

For a comparison in feels, I borrowed my friend's ViewSonic VX922b 19" fullscreen 4:3 tn LCD panel, with great gaming reviews and a 2ms response time. I ran the same game at 1280 x 1024 @ 60 Hz and was unable to notice a significant difference in my ability to game.

I consider myself a highly competitive online FPS gamer, having been brought up through Wolf3d, Doom, Doom II, Duke Nukem 3d, etc. all the way until Quake, Unreal, and Half Life came out. I've been on reasonably successful competitive teams in Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory (pov! in twl beta and [tl] in other leagues) as well as Savage 2 (played on Stacked which later became clan-in-a-box later to be sponsored by Take 6 gaming),as well as very twitch-based games like Shadowbane and Unreal Tournament.

I mention all this to try and secure my background for being able to accurately review this monitor for potential gaming.

So far the difference has been at most, very slightly subtle, perhaps negligible.

-------------------

As for color / contrast uniformity, I do not feel qualified to review this aspect of the monitor. I am not a photographer or other type of editor. I do not own any color calibration devices like the Lacie Blue Eye Pro (though I would LOVE if someone could let me borrow/have theirs, I'd be MORE THAN HAPPY to run any test you want).

At this time I cannot afford any of the more respectable color calibration tools (last I checked that Lacie was ~$300).

---------------------

However, I can say that I do not notice any blue or pink tinting on the screen or obvious uniformity issue / backlight bleeding / etc. I've left my monitor on for over half an hour to be sure the results would be accurate from my subjective testing, and all my photos / videos look great. They do look different from my old monitor, slightly, *perhaps* more colorful / over-saturated, however, I cannot prove this as my original monitor was not calibrated using any reputable tool/s.

----------------------

I spent lots of time looking at monitors at my local Fry's, Best Buy, Office Depot, etc. and even more time online reading reviews. My budget was <$600 total, and this was my selection.

PLEASE let me know if you have any question that I can answer to help you learn more about this monitor. I'd be happy to post pictures or perform simple tests, answer questions, etc.

Thank you for being a great forum, I have come across Hard Forum so many times in search of good advice that I thought it was about time I returned the favor.
 
IsLNdbOi said:
So how much less input lag do you have using that Monster Cable? :D
Click to expand...

Absolutely none! In fact, it's an annoying cable because it's so reinforced that it's not very bendable. I originally nabbed one because it was on Buy.com for $22.19 (including shipping/tax) (and my local Super Wal-Mart didn't even have a DVI cable for sale!), and I needed one to fully test the ViewSonic VX922b, as my friend did not have a DVI cable.

But yeah, I cannot recommend this cable highly, as it was almost too difficult to attach to the VX922 *and* it's just a tad broader than some DVI cables, resulting in an awfully close fit when my videocard has 2 monitors attached.
 
he was teasing, monster cables has such a bad reputation and business practices that most here would and will boycott them for life. Monster cables should be Al Qaeda's next target imo :)
 
neologan said:
he was teasing, monster cables has such a bad reputation and business practices that most here would and will boycott them for life. Monster cables should be Al Qaeda's next target imo :)
Click to expand...

Interesting, I'm not really familiar with cables/etc. or companies that make them. I'm guessing the reason this one was so cheap was that the market for stand-alone DVI cables must be tiny, as pretty much any new monitor today will include the cable.

Also, I'm under the impression that cables that send 1's and 0's or packets of 1's and 0's don't really need to be "uber quality", it's cables that send analog signals that would benefit more. To me buying a $50+ 6-ft DVI cable would be like buying a $50+ 6-ft USB cable... pretty pointless. Correct me if I'm wrong.
 
Dymlos said:
Interesting, I'm not really familiar with cables/etc. or companies that make them. I'm guessing the reason this one was so cheap was that the market for stand-alone DVI cables must be tiny, as pretty much any new monitor today will include the cable.

Also, I'm under the impression that cables that send 1's and 0's or packets of 1's and 0's don't really need to be "uber quality", it's cables that send analog signals that would benefit more. To me buying a $50+ 6-ft DVI cable would be like buying a $50+ 6-ft USB cable... pretty pointless. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Click to expand...
You are right. By the way, Monster cables are not cheap; they are actually quite expensive. I believe most people get their cheap quality cables from monoprice.com.
 
All right, I'm glad I spent more time with the testing and setup of my CRT vs. the 2408WFP LCD, as I was actually able to get some tangible results other than my baffling preliminary results:

I think the www.behardware.com review might have been of an older revision or perhaps a bad apple, as I was unable to produce numbers as high as theirs:

They rate the input lag at 60 to 89 w/ an average of 69ms delay.

On a Dell 2408WFP that I ordered July 3rd and have now had for 1 day, I took about 25 pictures (not all of them turned out due to messing with flash/lighting/angles), and using the 10 that I can see, my min max and average on 10 shots were:

min = 15ms
max = 47ms
avg = 33.5ms

Now I realize this is a small pool of data (10 samples w/ no outliers thrown out), but it is *totally* different from www.behardware.com 's results.

This is 1/4 the lag on the min , less than 1/2 the delay on the average, and a little over 1/2 the delay on the max.

I will definitely be doing more testing, but because I'm a big fan of "pics or gtfo" I'm posting the min and max shots I took, plus a shot that was close to the average measurement:

IMG_1685.jpg


IMG_1686.jpg


IMG_1692.jpg



As you can see I've scratched certain things out on the screen, I'm sure jokes will ensue about what those folders/links probably are.
 
Sorry, but exactly what should we be looking for? How is this test done?
A couple of those pics are nor viewable. It would be better if you reduced the size of the stored photo so as to fit on the page better.
 
videobruce said:
Sorry, but exactly what should we be looking for? How is this test done?
A couple of those pics are nor viewable. It would be better if you reduced the size of the stored photo so as to fit on the page better.
Click to expand...

Sorry about that, first time posting pics:

All right, test setup:

On the left: ViewSonic E90f+SB , 19" (18" viewable) fullscreen 4:3 ratio, flatscreen CRT featuring Ultra Brite. It's a 6 year old monitor in nearly new condition. I have it hooked up to my computer via the attached VGA (D-sub cable) and a DVI to VGA adapater, included with my eVGA video card.

On the right: Dell Ultrasharp 2408WFP revision A02. Hooked up via a Monster DVI 400 cable, going into the 1st DVI port on the Dell monitor. The monitor is now 1 day old, both monitors had been powered on for at least 15 minutes before testing.

Video card in use: eVGA Superclocked nVidia GeForce 8800 GTS (G90) 640 MB PCI-express 16x card.

I'm shooting with a Canon Powershot S3 IS , digital camera, 6MP. I have some shots w/ flash, some without, at varying angles / lighting conditions. It's using 4 x AA Energizer e2 lithium ultimate batteries and a 16GB class 6 SDHC card by Patriot.

The shots were transferred to my computer via the Dell 2408WFP 5in2 card reader (which uses a USB 2.0 cable). I then edited out some text in the pictures using MS Paint, and uploaded them via Photobucket in the highest quality it allowed (1MB file size).

Software: I took the time to read a thread about measuring input lag: http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1327679 , and while using inputlag.exe from http://tft.vanity.dk/ , I have the monitors running in clone mode with the latest nVidia driver: 186.18. My directX and Adobe Flash are fully updated.

OS: MS Windows XP Pro (32-bit) SP3

--------------

What you're looking for:

In the millisecond area (rightmost on each screen), you will notice that the numbers are not the same on each monitor. The CRT has less input lag, and thus, is showing a ms reading that is closer to reality, whereas the Dell LCD is "stuck in the past".

After looking at 10 stills that I took, and using my trusty Windows calculator, I found the input lag on the Dell LCD to be:

min 15ms
max 47ms
avg 33.5ms

This was without throwing out any outliers, only shots that did not result in readable results.

You mention that a couple of the pics I posted are "nor (sp) viewable".

The first shot, the flash does cover up the right most #, however, it is clearly a 7, as the program has no other number that looks that way (3's and 2's are curvy, not straight).

The 2nd shot I posted is rather dim, but, unless your contrast ratio is not able to allow you to see it, I do not know why it is unreadable.

The 3rd shot looks good and bright to me.
 
I took 23 more pictures, 14 of which were able to be read. Here is my data and results:

ms readings = difference

906 875 = 31
28 17 = 11
50 19 = 31
50 19 = 31
609 577 = 32
828 797 = 31
15 0 = 15
40 9 = 31
828 797 = 31
59 28 = 31
828 797 = 31
59 12 = 47
87 56 = 31
65 50 = 15


------------


14 shots

min = 11
max = 47
avg = 28.5

mode = 31 with 9/14 shots.

-------------

Analysis: I find it pretty coincidental that the maximum input lag was 47 across a total of 24 shots now, the min was 11ms (though if I toss it out as an outlier, then 15ms is the min). I can't toss the 47ms out because I received it more than once.

The fact that 9/14 shots were 31ms lag is pretty damning evidence to me, enough to place the most common "input lag" to be 31 ms, even though the average ms delay is less than that according to my calculator.

-------------

So there you have it, 24 readable results later, I would place the input lag at 11ms to 47ms w/ a mode of 31ms and an average of 30.58333...ms delay.

In moving my mouse cursor around, I do feel a subtle difference, however, I don't find myself unable to go about my usual FPS fragging or office-type duties.
 
I re-read another page on monitor comparisons:

http://www.digitalversus.com/duels.php?ty=6&ma1=88&mo1=342&p1=3161&ma2=38&mo2=406&p2=3788&ph=12

One that has lots of data for delay against a CRT.

According to them, 16.7ms is 1 frame of delay @ 60FPS, and a CRT has ~0 frames of delay on the min, max, and average.

According to my results, this would mean the Dell 2408WFP rev. A02 has a delay of min: 0.658 frames , max 2.814 frames, and average: 1.831 frames.

www.behardware.com 's test originally had the Dell's delay at min: 3.59 frames, max 5.329 frames, and average: 4.132 frames.

Now their review was on 04/28/2008 (or 28/04/2008 for many of you non-USA folk), At this date, the monitor was (to my knowledge) unrevised.

Pretty significant changes for 1 year, the min is now less than 1/5 the delay , max is almost down to 1/2 the delay, and average is less than 1/2.

I'm not saying the input lag is "totally fixed" or "unnoticeable", but it's certainly lower than many older reviews place it at.
 
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