We're in the same boat friend. I will also wait for in depth testing before I ship mine back to Dell. On a different note, my last post was about the horrible delivery date Dell estimated. I'm pleased (maybe, depends on testing results) to report that date has been upgraded to 6 days from now. Come to think of it, whatever gets posted here, I will still open mine up and run it through what I would define as "enthusiast testing". I have not ever owned an LCD so I will be very sensitive to input lag and will be able to give feedback to those who are like me.
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Dell 2408WFP Now Available
- Thread starter reductant
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We're in the same boat friend. I will also wait for in depth testing before I ship mine back to Dell. On a different note, my last post was about the horrible delivery date Dell estimated. I'm pleased (maybe, depends on testing results) to report that date has been upgraded to 6 days from now. Come to think of it, whatever gets posted here, I will still open mine up and run it through what I would define as "enthusiast testing". I have not ever owned an LCD so I will be very sensitive to input lag and will be able to give feedback to those who are like me.
redlinez33
Weaksauce
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Hmm.....
Okay, got the CRT hooked back up for some more response time testing.
I couldn't say why, but the game preset mode is getting very consistent ~40 ms results (edit: apparently not so consistent, see my follow-up two posts down). I'm still receiving ~60 ms times in the sRGB preset mode, so I don't think anything I've tweaked on my system (e.g., the LCD is now my primary display with the CRT as the secondary) is having any effect.
I couldn't say why, but the game preset mode is getting very consistent ~40 ms results (edit: apparently not so consistent, see my follow-up two posts down). I'm still receiving ~60 ms times in the sRGB preset mode, so I don't think anything I've tweaked on my system (e.g., the LCD is now my primary display with the CRT as the secondary) is having any effect.
redlinez33
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try other presets if you could 
Okay, I spent a half hour photographing both monitors before I became annoyed and stopped . Here are my results so far:
Desktop: 60 60 60 60 60 60 40 40 40 40 40
Multimedia: 60 60 60 60 60 44 40 40 40 40 40
Game: 60 60 60 60 60 60 60 60 40 40 40
sRGB: 60 60 60 60 60 40
So, given enough samples, I don't actually have an exact number. Maybe this is harder than it seemed? With the one anomaly (44 ms), all of my results were within plus or minus 1 ms of 40 ms or 60 ms. I even managed a shot were the stopwatch program was rolling over from 613 to 632, so 20 ms may be the program's effective time resolution. Take of my numbers what you will. (I may not be perfect, but I won't let anyone say I didn't try .)
. Here are my results so far:Desktop: 60 60 60 60 60 60 40 40 40 40 40
Multimedia: 60 60 60 60 60 44 40 40 40 40 40
Game: 60 60 60 60 60 60 60 60 40 40 40
sRGB: 60 60 60 60 60 40
So, given enough samples, I don't actually have an exact number
. Maybe this is harder than it seemed? With the one anomaly (44 ms), all of my results were within plus or minus 1 ms of 40 ms or 60 ms. I even managed a shot were the stopwatch program was rolling over from 613 to 632, so 20 ms may be the program's effective time resolution. Take of my numbers what you will. (I may not be perfect, but I won't let anyone say I didn't try .)BigwaveDave
Limp Gawd
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Those input lag times are terrible.
That really ruins my plans of trying one of these monitors. I can't believe this issue isn't more well know by now. It's really easy to feel 60ms, even just using the desktop mouse movement.
That really ruins my plans of trying one of these monitors. I can't believe this issue isn't more well know by now. It's really easy to feel 60ms, even just using the desktop mouse movement.
Well, more news about my panel. Earlier I posted that Dell said my order was to be shipped in the 3rd week of March. I just logged into my Dell order status page and it says the unit has been shipped already. It also says the unit was built 02/26/2008. Dell website/phone reps always telling me different things so I have no idea when it will really be here. As promised before I will open and test thouroughly.
This is odd. Heard of a few people getting a 2408 delivered with the model number being 2408WFPb. I did some hunting and from what I read, the B designates that it was built by BenQ. Wouldn't it be nice if we all got BenQ editions with low lag times?
Off topic, I'm trying to understand the point of creating a 102% wide gamut panel. So far 100% of users are saying its too vibrant and saturated and are reducing color to the RBG mode that is typically 92%. Who knows ... it's late and i'm rambling now. I just want to test this thing out with my own hands. Night.
Source: http://www.dellcommunity.com/supportforums/board/message?board.id=dim_monitor&thread.id=88190
Off topic, I'm trying to understand the point of creating a 102% wide gamut panel. So far 100% of users are saying its too vibrant and saturated and are reducing color to the RBG mode that is typically 92%. Who knows ... it's late and i'm rambling now. I just want to test this thing out with my own hands. Night.
Source: http://www.dellcommunity.com/supportforums/board/message?board.id=dim_monitor&thread.id=88190
LOL, didn't even know there is such a game as Hello Kitty Island Adventure. But you do! Anyway, I do play CS:S and am coming off the better CRT (sony) and I never said that you wouldn't notice the difference. I merely stated in a more simple way that when you're pumping out 130 frames per second on your LCD, nobody, and I do mean nobody would look at it and say, "DAMN, theres four frames per second lag there!" That's why we need high speed camera's to show the lag. You can't look at a stopclock displying on your screen and count how many frames of lag you're getting. You will however be able to tell a difference when playin on CRT vs. LCD. But thats the price you pay from moving from a CRT to LCD. My gaming takes a hit, but not a huge hit where I am no longer able to hold my own. That's all, no need to torch me for saying so.
Your LCD doesn't display 130 frames, only 60. So 4 missing frames out of 60 per second is among the highest in the industry.
This is correct. And for those of you who don't understand this think of it this way. Your LCD screen is redrawing the image you see 60 times per second when set to 60htz. This despite the fact that the video card might be outputting more frames, you will only ever see 60. Some LCD's can run at highers refresh rates at lower resolutions, for instance 75htz, but in the majority of scenarios it's 60. So when you remove 4 of 60 frames, it becomes quite noticable.
Multimedia mode looks great while watching The Simpsons (though a little funny with some other DVDs). Game mode looked good for Crysis once I managed to get over the immediate "this is too saturated" feeling (another addendum I suppose: I was playing Crysis at non-native resolutions upscaled by the monitor and I felt the monitor did an excellent job in "aspect" mode).
Very rare TFTs have constant input lag and considerable variation is normal.So, given enough samples, I don't actually have an exact number
So that would give 40ms as smallest lag and average around 50ms.
Considering effect of testing program there would be another counter in here:
http://tft.vanity.dk/
sRGB colour space (about everything in PCs is made for that) is 72% of NTSC.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/other/display/lcd-testmethods_2.html
Here's user guide page about OSD menus:
http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/monitors/2408WFP/en/UG/operate.htm#Using the OSD
Caine Thanatos
n00b
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any info on the Black crush thingy
Game mode for Crysis CAN'T look good because even with quad crossfired high-end ATi graphics cards (HD 3870 CrossFire best cards at the moment) Crysis delivers only terrible 29 FPS on high settings. I guess if you set the graphics settings to ultra high (that's how it suppossed to run in the next generation games) your fps will drop to 7.4 lol
PC can't be fast or it will melt and consumpt more than 1000 Watt
PC is not intended for gaming, PS3 is.
LCD simply CAN'T be exellent as CRT does not matter which panel it uses.
For those of you who prefers to move only forward just wait for Laser or OLED monitors, maybe they will be better.
Switching modes is fairly obnoxious. Basically it's menu, 3x plus, menu, 2x plus, menu, select a mode with plus and minus, menu, minus, menu. A single mode cycling button would have been much appreciated. The buttons take some getting used to, but I'm almost there (you'll see what I mean).
A51Abductee
n00b
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- Feb 25, 2008
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Wierd... after reading your post I checked my screen and I can confirm that I have a "2408WFPb" model, made in Mexico. Isn't it a little early for Dell to be starting up a panel lottery, heh. I wonder if the input lag issues are restricted to the plain 2408WFP.. I'm not noticing any lag or ghosting on my panel myself. I currently have it setup as dual-display with my old S-IPS Dell 2001FP, which I think has a rated response of 16ms (http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/monitors/2001fp/EN/specs.htm) - and the major noticeable difference to me is the color saturation.
Please do a input lag measurement, our hearts are filled with a little bit of hope.
A51Abductee
n00b
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Yeah, nevermind.
http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/monitors/2408WFP/en/UG/appendx.htm#FCC Notice (U.S. Only)
* Product name: 2408WFP Flat Panel Monitor
* Model number: 2408WFPb
Looks like nothing new.
stonewalker
Gawd
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- May 26, 2007
- Messages
- 765
glad i didnt jump on this.maybe ill just wait on oleds
I already posted in the "Quick Review" thread..got a WFPb today here in Germany.
- lag is almost always exactly 47 ms and sometimes 32 with the flatpanels.dk clock, another one I tested varies between 32 and 62 ms with most values at 45-50.
- there is some strange "DLP rainbow"-like effect with hard bright edges on a dark background (edge mirrored with green/grey stripes) that I always see if I move my eyes or blink. Is this the "ghosting" effect? Does somebody know if the Eizo CE240W got it? It's quite annoying for me because I work a lot in xterms (dark background, light grey font and frame).
When taking a photo of the screen at <1/500 shutter time I can actually see red and green tinted subframes, at <1/2000 I can see the transition in a single frame. What the heck is this? Something seems to be pulsed.
- overall picture quality is very good, except for noticeable black crush. Note that my old Samsung 213T (21" PVA without overdrive) doesn't have this problem at all and would be superior in every way if there wasn't the huge response time (>40 ms).
I will most likely send it back and get the Eizo CE240W I first wanted to buy.
I'm a bit disappointed it's still not possible for a demanding user to get a good display for under €1000. Now I have to spend just as much as for the 213T back then.
- lag is almost always exactly 47 ms and sometimes 32 with the flatpanels.dk clock, another one I tested varies between 32 and 62 ms with most values at 45-50.
- there is some strange "DLP rainbow"-like effect with hard bright edges on a dark background (edge mirrored with green/grey stripes) that I always see if I move my eyes or blink. Is this the "ghosting" effect? Does somebody know if the Eizo CE240W got it? It's quite annoying for me because I work a lot in xterms (dark background, light grey font and frame).
When taking a photo of the screen at <1/500 shutter time I can actually see red and green tinted subframes, at <1/2000 I can see the transition in a single frame. What the heck is this? Something seems to be pulsed.
- overall picture quality is very good, except for noticeable black crush. Note that my old Samsung 213T (21" PVA without overdrive) doesn't have this problem at all and would be superior in every way if there wasn't the huge response time (>40 ms).
I will most likely send it back and get the Eizo CE240W I first wanted to buy.
I'm a bit disappointed it's still not possible for a demanding user to get a good display for under €1000. Now I have to spend just as much as for the 213T back then.
Well, not exactly "same old".
Really old PVA displays like my old 213T do NOT have the black crush / uniformity problem. Reproduction of dark image areas is nearly equal for different viewing angles!
I was very surprised to see this problem on current PVA panels. The price has come down but so has the quality, it seems.
Really old PVA displays like my old 213T do NOT have the black crush / uniformity problem. Reproduction of dark image areas is nearly equal for different viewing angles!
I was very surprised to see this problem on current PVA panels. The price has come down but so has the quality, it seems.
silk186
[H]ard|Gawd
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Has anyone compared this monitor to the BenQ FP241VW with the newer firmware update? These seem to be the two top 24" LCDs under a grand.
Like any LCD monitor both BENQ and Dell monitors suffer from motion blur. It can't be fixed since it's Liquid-Crystal Display.
If you have no idea what a motion blur is it's not that hard to explain: if you ever were drunk for some reason it's exactly what it feels like to sit infront of LCD crap watching some movements.
If you have no idea what a motion blur is it's not that hard to explain: if you ever were drunk for some reason it's exactly what it feels like to sit infront of LCD crap watching some movements.
You know what is bizarre, I have seen angle screen shots of the 213T, and it was the exception, older PVA screens had black crush, so did the newer ones. The 213T was an exception compared to most PVA screens.
redlinez33
Weaksauce
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Tested input lag again today on the replacement monitor I got in today from dell. Remember I am comparing it to my 245BW, which shouldnt have input lag.
I got four different numbers
20ms 30ms and 40ms................. and out of the 20pics i took it reached 50ms once...
The average is somewhere between 30 and 40 for the pics I took.
I was running native resolution when i took these pics.....
I got four different numbers
20ms 30ms and 40ms................. and out of the 20pics i took it reached 50ms once...
The average is somewhere between 30 and 40 for the pics I took.
I was running native resolution when i took these pics.....
redlinez33
Weaksauce
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Does anyone notice the left side of the monitor being brighter than the rest of the monitor? I RMAd my first monitor because of this problem and the second one has this problem as well.......... Its only really noticable in dark scenes in games and when viewing dark pictures.
Caine Thanatos
n00b
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redlinez33, how is the black crushing (compared to the 245bw / and or a crt monitor)