Educated but Confused Beginner. Help

C

Cousin Patty

Gawd
Joined
Jul 21, 2005
Messages
634
Ok I'm very seriously considering putting together my first water cooling setup. Ive had way too much spare time at work and Ive been reading alot of the threads here in the Water Cooling forum. After filtering through a ton of posts and opinions, I've come to some conclusions regarding what components are the best/pretty badass for a good setup. Im gonna break it down and you guys feel free to make comments, however the main reason I am making this post is because I have some questions about shit I am not clear on. But before I get to that, lemme see if I understand some things. Keep in mind that I am a "noob". It would appear that:

1) Most everybody here gets stuff from Danger Den
2) One of the best pumps is the DD5 12V (I know its currently out of stock)
3) Alot of people use the Black Ice Xtreme Radiators.
4) the TDX CPU waterblock is pretty badass for 754/939
5) the Maze 4 is pretty good for GPU's
6) Tygon is the best tubing
7) Worm clamps are the most reliable if you tighten the shit out of them (within reason)
Keep in mind that this is a generalization based on my research here in the forum.

Now, things I don't understand/ have questions about are:

1) Tubing sizes. Some say 3/8", some 1/2", some 7/16". I have a Lian Li pc-65. Its pretty cramped inside, even with some pretty decent wire management and sleeving. Seems like 3/8" would be good for a small case but how does that connect to the DD5 Pump? Is an adapter needed? Or is the hot water/hair dryer/ stretching method ok?
2) Is it even possible to mount any of the Black Ice Radiators Internally or Externally to a Lian Li-PC65? I DO NOT want to cut anything. I do not have access to any cutting tools whatsoever and all this watercooling shit costs enough as it is without having to buy expensive ass tools.
3) Since I dont want to cut my case and use a fillport (which I also dont understand), it would appear that I need to buy a reservoir. The clear ones at Danger Den look pretty cool. However, how do you add coolant after the initial filling? In other words, when the coolant gets low. Do you have to drain everything and break everything down and pull the reservoir out or what? Since I was planning on getting one that fits in a drive bay, its pretty not possible to fill it while its in there. I just dont get it.
4) Coolant. I want to have UV reactive coolant in Green. What is the best stuff to get that will give me non-conductivity, algea killing, peformance, and the UV. Individual product beak down would be great.
5) Will the setup below cool the shit I have more than just adequately? Id like to do some decent overclocking. Mainly on the video card. And more imortantly I want it to work well with any future components I may get. Faster vid card and CPU.
My current mock-up is:
Pump: DD-5(when it gets in), Radiator: Black Ice Extreme II, TDX CPU block, Maze 4 GPU block, Tygon tubing, either a 3 1/2" res or a 5 1/4". I dont know which fans yet.

My current system is: Processor : Socket 754 Athlon 64 Newcastle (i think is what its called) 3000+ (not overclocked)
GPU: Sapphire X800 PRO (overclocked processor from 475mhz to 559mhz)
Those are the only things I want to cool.
I know its a long post but I must understand! :confused: All comments are much appreciated.
 
Sounds like you've done a good bit of reading to ask the right questions. That's a good thing. :)

I wouldn't say that most people use DD equipment. I'm not a fan of it myself. Probably your best bet on the CPU block right now is the Swiftech Storm (originally designed by Cathar). Especially if you're getting a pump like the D5 or DDC. Here is a link to the product on Swiftech's page: http://swiftnets.com/products/STORM.asp

Now that Black Ice products have come down in price, I've warmed up to them. I used to not like them because they were so overpriced when compared to a generic heatercore. But, I actually just bought a BIPIII the other day because they are so much cheaper now.

I don't know much about GPU cooling, so I'll leave that to others.

Tubing size is a big debate with a lot of people. If your case is cramped, 3/8" would probably be the way to go for the tubing size. The Storm block barely loses any performance at 3/8" vs. 1/2", and 3/8" is much easier to route. Cathar convinced me to use 7/16", so thats what I'm personally using these days. Almost as little resistance as 1/2", and far easier to route. Kind of the best of both worlds of 3/8" and 1/2". Either 3/8" or 7/16" will do you fine though. Check out this thread for more info:
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=912276
and specifically this post by Cathar:
http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1027776818&postcount=20



If you DO decide on 3/8", you can buy the D5 with 3/8" fittings. From what I've read, that doesn't seem to be the ideal fitting for the D5 because it makes it work a lot harder to pump the water. That would eventually cut down on it's life span. However, if you got a pump like the DDC, you would be in very good shape with 3/8". Its quieter and smaller than the D5, but isn't quite as powerful. Still a very good pump though.

I'm not really sure what size fans the LiLi PC65 has, but if it has any 120mm fan holes on it, then you should be able to mount either a BIP or BIX with relative ease. You listed a BIXII - you would need 2 side by side 120mm fan holes to mount that without cutting. Unless you think you can float it inside your case.

You don't have to use a reservoir if you don't want to cut your case. You can use a T fitting (which is what you would use with the fillport too) before the pump in your loop. So, you have the loop coming in one side, the pump on the other, and another tube sticking upwards. That tube sticking upwards is where you fill your loop at. You can just leave that tube sticking up in your case with some kind of plug at the top and be fine. No cutting needed!

Reservoirs work basically the same way, but they are in series with your loop. They should have a hole in them with a plug that you can open up when you want to pour more water in. If you look at this one (http://swiftnets.com/products/MCRES-525.asp), you can see the hole in it. It has the 2 barbs sticking out (with an option for a 3rd barb if you want it, its plugged in that picture) and the black circle is covering the hole that you fill it with.

However, when bleeding the air bubbles out of your system, using a T line takes a lot longer than a reservoir. My preference is to use a T line because means theres one less thing in my loop that might leak. I don't mind waiting a 12+ hours for the air to bleed out.

Coolant - I just use a solution of 90% distilled water, 10% antifreeze. The antifreeze takes care of bacteria and corrosion. Since most antifreeze is green, you might just be able to add your favorite UV additive and have it look UV green. Not sure though.

Hope that gets you started a bit. :)

Good luck!
 
Thanks for the info Jman. I will check it out.

Also thanks for all the info Dark Ember. You covered alot of my questions. Ill have to look over all this info more closely when I get home though. Im still at work at the moment. Oh yeah the LL pc-65 has two 80mm intake fans at the front, one 80mm exhaust in the back and another 80mm exhaust at the top of the case. But I dont know, maybe Im just an idiot but I have no idea how to get them off because theyre not secured with screws...theyre like riveted in there or some damn thing. I may just have to get a case that is more watercooling friendly. But anyway, thanks again.
 
I have the same case as you. The screws are held in with black plastic pushrod type things. Just take your fingernail and push directly on the back of them, then it will slide the front out enough to pull them out. Im setting up watercooling on mine, and will be done in about a week. I will post pictures to show you how I did minewhen I get it done. Good luck with yours! :cool:
 
DUDE, THATS AWESOME!. thanks for the info! that makes things so much easier. I knew there had to be a way to get those bastards out. I look forward to seeing the pictures. Thanks again!
 
So, if you only have 80mm fans in your case, you're either going to need to cut to fit a BIP/BIX, or float it inside your case somewhere. Technically there are 80mm and 2x80mm radiators, but you really don't want those...
 
I actually have 2x Black Ice 80mm radiators. I dont think they are going to be that bad. They are double the thickness as a 120mm radiator. I dont think they would be great for cooling alot of components, but for a cpu thats not overclocked I think it will be just fine. I also did not want to cut up my case either so I decided on this method. When I have it put together I will post my temperature changes...
 
I'm running 2x80m.m. rads (the Swiftech version of the BIM) and this is with an OC'ed 2.4c, OC'ed 6800nu (unlocked) and I'm getting better temps than I did with the same components running with a single 120mm heatercore rad.

The differences are the 80's are outside my case (also Lian Li) pulling cool air into each rad whereas the 120mm was getting case air blown through it. Old setup used to hit 122*F under load and now I get 109*F under load so personally I don't understand where all the "80mm rads are teh suk" sentiment comes from because based on my first hand experience with mine they're pretty damn good.
 
Dark Ember said:
So, if you only have 80mm fans in your case, you're either going to need to cut to fit a BIP/BIX, or float it inside your case somewhere. Technically there are 80mm and 2x80mm radiators, but you really don't want those...
Click to expand...


What about this : http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/mciraho.html This should work for mounting a 120mm radiator to the outside of a PC-65 right? Plus it comes with the 1/2" OD pass through bracket. The only problem I can think of is the grill type part on the back of the case may get in the way. Anybody have any thoughts on this?
 
You'd either have to bend the grill back in flush with the tray or cut it out with a dremel which is the fastest and cleanest way to do it.

As to dremel's being expensive, I found mine in a pawnshop for $30 including several cutoff wheels and a mandrel among other things including a case. That was 3 years ago and it's still going strong.
 
I think it would work fine, As long as you dont mind the looks of it...
 
madmat said:
You'd either have to bend the grill back in flush with the tray or cut it out with a dremel which is the fastest and cleanest way to do it.

As to dremel's being expensive, I found mine in a pawnshop for $30 including several cutoff wheels and a mandrel among other things including a case. That was 3 years ago and it's still going strong.
Click to expand...

ya, dremals are actually rather cheap, about 50 bucks for a new one i think.... I'm yet to buy one though, my rotozip works great as well, but too bad they are no longer made.... They have great power, but just a little too hefty for some jobs...
 
Have you looked at the H2O Apex kit yet? This thing features Cathar's new baby, the G4 Storm. I'm seriously
tempted to click the "buy now" button on Swifty's site.
 
For cutting holes in cases, Holesaws are the only way to go. I picked up a set of 3", 3.5", and 4 3/4" (80, 92, and 120mm respectively) holesaws with mandrel for $35 shipped on e-bay. Home Depot wants like $25 for just a 4.5", which is slightly small for 120mm.
 
My $.02

If you are going to mount any type of 120 radiator to a case then there simply is no better way to go than with an Aqua Computer Evo grill.
 
Vertigo Acid said:
For cutting holes in cases, Holesaws are the only way to go. I picked up a set of 3", 3.5", and 4 3/4" (80, 92, and 120mm respectively) holesaws with mandrel for $35 shipped on e-bay. Home Depot wants like $25 for just a 4.5", which is slightly small for 120mm.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't want to try a holesaw on a Lian Li grill, there's no material in the middle for the pilot drill to use as a guide so the saw could walk all over the rear of the tray making for a big sloppy hole or teeth marks all over.

The grills are held with 4 struts, for lack of a better term, that take maybe 30-40 seconds to dremel through.
 
madmat said:
I wouldn't want to try a holesaw on a Lian Li grill, there's no material in the middle for the pilot drill to use as a guide so the saw could walk all over the rear of the tray making for a big sloppy hole or teeth marks all over.
Click to expand...

I've used hole saws on LiLi's and never had a problem... Just mask the surrounding areas, and go slow. :)
 
That why you clamp a piece of wood below the grill ;)
Just did one a couple days ago with great sucess
 
Vertigo Acid said:
That why you clamp a piece of wood below the grill ;)
Just did one a couple days ago with great sucess
Click to expand...

That sounds good! I think clamping the wood to the top of the case sounds better though. Here is a link to putting in an Evo grill, but I think it would work in a lot of other types of installations with a little modification: http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=928482
 
Indeed, I would have done it that to avoid scratching the top of the case but the clamps I have won't fit that way. Stupid lip :p
 
Vertigo Acid said:
Indeed, I would have done it that to avoid scratching the top of the case but the clamps I have won't fit that way. Stupid lip :p
Click to expand...

Deep throat clamps :D
 
SpoogeMonkey said:
Have you looked at the H2O Apex kit yet? This thing features Cathar's new baby, the G4 Storm. I'm seriously
tempted to click the "buy now" button on Swifty's site.
Click to expand...

That looks like what I need to get. The only thing I don't like/need to ask Swifttech about is why they do not want you to use any kind of UV dyes with that block. I mean just having clear fluid going through the tubes is kina boring. Especially since my PC-65 has a window.
 
I have a question for people who own a Lian Li PC-65. Has anybody had a problem with being able to screw in PCI, or AGP cards onto the case? Both my sound card and my video card do not seat 100% perfect into the motherboard and as a result cannot be screwed into the case. This isnt my first rodeo, Ive built computers before but i dont know why they wont seat correctly. I really need the vid card to sit right and secure if Im gonna put a water cooling system in there with a GPU block.
 
I would bet that UV dyes leave floating residue or other junk that could plug the jets on the block. As for the PC-65 isse, yes, it is sort of a know QA problem with some Lian Li cases. My solution was to pull out the mobo tray and just sort of slightly bend the back plate part towards the tray. Helped in my old PC-86. Good luck!
 
Vertigo Acid said:
I would bet that UV dyes leave floating residue or other junk that could plug the jets on the block.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure thats right. The jets in the block are small enough so that even tiny particles can build up eventually and plug them.
 
You can also try loosening all the mobo screws up and seating the vid card and sound card. I had that trouble when I first assembled my 6070 (I believe the trays are pretty much the same on all the PC-6x cases) and while the screws were all nice and centered the mobo was too close to the rear of the tray. I loosened the screws up, seated my cards and screwed 'em down and the tightened the mobo screws up and haven't had a problem with it since.
 
I have to agree with the "no uv dye" argument. The holes for the jet impingement are tiny. And you really don't need the dye, most green coolant/additive lights up nicely anyways.
 
You dont have to buy from DD....You can buy your cooling rad, tubing, and fittings from me! :D I have a thread in the FS forum.
 
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