Epic Marketing Meltdown of the Day

jahsoul said:
I actually thought that this was an isolated incident and personally, I still do because I can't find proof of others. Not saying that it's not true but I just don't see anything. All in all it sucks. Pressure causes certain pipes to burst and Paul hit that point. I sympathize on both ends. Honestly, I'm a man, I wouldn't have went crying to Gabe about it but I would have found a way to resolved this in a civil manner (because no matter what anyone say, Dave didn't do that in the end). All in all, it is what it is. Just hope that Paul learns from it.
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Here's another customer to which he did not act very nice:

http://www.natesnetwork.com/Poor-customer-service

Also, watch the namecalling/insults in this thread. I know emotions are at a tipping point here, but I would hate to have to close this thread because some people cannot keep it from getting personal.
 
cvinh said:
You really think this was an isolated incident. This isn't the first time Paul has treated customers like this. It was 100% right to publicize those emails. If you don't support crucifying Paul then how about the customers who have to deal with this douchebag? How do you think they feel when their questions are being ducked? Who knows how long this guy would have been in PR if people didn't find out about his attitude and behavior towards his PAYING customers.
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If it's really as bad as you say, then how on earth is he still in business? You make it seem like it's a public service to ruin this individual? If thing's were really so terrible there'd be plethora of bad reviews everywhere. A long history of evidence to support this from a wide range of individuals. The real question here is, did he steal from them? Did he refuse to RMA products? Did he refuse to refund people who requested that? Or is everyone trying to completely ruin this person's life just because he's been rude to them? From everything I've seen so far, that's what it looks like. I'll just paraphrase what I think illustrates the situation.

Dave - "Yo, treat me wit some respect or I'll get a refund, mkay?" Paul "Go ahead, I can sell dis sheet someone else, I have better things to do than deal with someone getting pissy over a delay" Dave "You can't talk to me lik that brah" Paul "Who are you to tell me how I can't talk to you? Do you have any idea who I am!!!11" Dave "You will rue the day you dis'd me yo" Paul "I believe you, NOT"

Then Dave 1up's Paul and proceeds to ruin him. Paul was rude, he was an asshole, that's terrible for business, but did he fuck Dave over? No. So why does Dave/Gabe feel the need to completely ruin Paul? Personally, to me, this all looks and smells like the groupie shit that goes on in High School. It's pathetic, it's hardly mature, it does nothing to improve lives, and defending this type of behavior doesn't build one's character or exhort others to. To top everything off though people seem quite upset with what I've been saying. They've been emotional, confrontational, one could even say openly hostile, some of the very behaviors I've described in regards to Dave, Gabe, and Paul. That's a rather unsettling observation yes? Hopefully it'll help some people think things over, cool down, try to be retrospective, perhaps the hypocrisy of this whole situation might even become apparent.
 
LastQuestion said:
If it's really as bad as you say, then how on earth is he still in business? You make it seem like it's a public service to ruin this individual? If thing's were really so terrible there'd be plethora of bad reviews everywhere. A long history of evidence to support this from a wide range of individuals. The real question here is, did he steal from them? Did he refuse to RMA products? Did he refuse to refund people who requested that? Or is everyone trying to completely ruin this person's life just because he's been rude to them? From everything I've seen so far, that's what it looks like. I'll just paraphrase what I think illustrates the situation.

Dave - "Yo, treat me wit some respect or I'll get a refund, mkay?" Paul "Go ahead, I can sell dis sheet someone else, I have better things to do than deal with someone getting pissy over a delay" Dave "You can't talk to me lik that brah" Paul "Who are you to tell me how I can't talk to you? Do you have any idea who I am!!!11" Dave "You will rue the day you dis'd me yo" Paul "I believe you, NOT"

Then Dave 1up's Paul and proceeds to ruin him. Paul was rude, he was an asshole, that's terrible for business, but did he fuck Dave over? No. So why does Dave/Gabe feel the need to completely ruin Paul? Personally, to me, this all looks and smells like the groupie shit that goes on in High School. It's pathetic, it's hardly mature, it does nothing to improve lives, and defending this type of behavior doesn't build one's character or exhort others to. To top everything off though people seem quite upset with what I've been saying. They've been emotional, confrontational, one could even say openly hostile, some of the very behaviors I've described in regards to Dave, Gabe, and Paul. That's a rather unsettling observation yes? Hopefully it'll help some people think things over, cool down, try to be retrospective, perhaps the hypocrisy of this whole situation might even become apparent.
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Like someone else stated, it probably wasn't Dave's intention to ruin Paul. He didn't want this to go by unnoticed either. You also underestimate the commonality of this douchebaggery which is why many people can relate to Dave. Everyone has had a "Paul" in their life at one point or another. So trying to tell people not to get emotionally involved is difficult and emotion is a human trait after all. It's rather expected of people don't you think?

I don't mean any physical harm to Paul but I do feel that he shouldn't be in this line of business with his lack of professionalism and empathy and if his career is ruined then I can't say I'm not happy about it. Also with more insight on his background coming out, we are starting to see what kind of person Paul really is. He's a bully. It's why this has gotten the kind of reaction it's gotten because no one likes a bully. Honestly, I feel that Paul couldn't have learned any other way, and if he still hasn't changed his ways after this then he deserves everything that's coming to him. Maybe Paul could become a better person from this experience. That's a positive is it not?
 
Majinhoju said:
His email was just posted for everyone to see. The retribution came once everyone saw just how douchy he sounded in his email. If Pauls words were twisted in anyway, then yes, maybe Mike would have been the asshole, but it looks like Mike just copied and pasted Paul's words. Mike just showed the world who Paul was without any libel or defamation of character, which seems fair to me.

I'm not suggesting that nobody else is taking this too far, but I think it was completely fair of Mike to show just how Paul treated a customer. If it was so bad that the internet community blacklists him, then maybe he should have rethought how he treats his customers.
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Sure it's fair. But the intent wasn't to be fair. When telling him he could no longer attend PAX didn't seem to have the effect that was intended then going public was mentioned. To then jump on that bandwagon, to support that decision, to continue that escalation, to help one of these parties stroke his ego...I just don't understand why anyone would want to a party to that.
 
jahsoul said:
I actually thought that this was an isolated incident and personally, I still do because I can't find proof of others. Not saying that it's not true but I just don't see anything. All in all it sucks. Pressure causes certain pipes to burst and Paul hit that point. I sympathize on both ends. Honestly, I'm a man, I wouldn't have went crying to Gabe about it but I would have found a way to resolved this in a civil manner (because no matter what anyone say, Dave didn't do that in the end). All in all, it is what it is. Just hope that Paul learns from it.
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http://www.natesnetwork.com/Poor-customer-service

There you go.
 
God damn all the parties involved need to fucking grow up and act like a half decent adult. All Penny Arcade did was make sure this controller company pays the price and continues to do so by making sure they keep themselves at a lower level than they should be.

The adult thing to do is fucking get on with life and let this shit be, there are plenty of other issues in the tech industry that deserve an assload more attention that what some PR firm wrote in an email. Too bad the amount of effort people put into this whole stupid non-issue isn't put towards fighting legislation that really hurts internet users.
 
cvinh said:
Like someone else stated, it probably wasn't Dave's intention to ruin Paul. He didn't want this to go by unnoticed either. You also underestimate the commonality of this douchebaggery which is why many people can relate to Dave. Everyone has had a "Paul" in their life at one point or another. So trying to tell people not to get emotionally involved is difficult and emotion is a human trait after all. It's rather expected of people don't you think?

I don't mean any physical harm to Paul but I do feel that he shouldn't be in this line of business with his lack of professionalism and empathy and if his career is ruined then I can't say I'm not happy about it. Also with more insight on his background coming out, we are starting to see what kind of person Paul really is. He's a bully. It's why this has gotten the kind of reaction it's gotten because no one likes a bully. Honestly, I feel that Paul couldn't have learned any other way, and if he still hasn't changed his ways after this then he deserves everything that's coming to him. Maybe Paul could become a better person from this experience. That's a positive is it not?
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Ya, everyone has. I have too. I however never felt it was necessary to escalate any conflicts. I'd ignore them, go on with my life. I didn't have an ego I needed to protect. Now, if they harassed me, if they started an abusive type of behavior, then I'd fuck them up, and it'd stop, and then I'd move on with my life again. I didn't let their actions guide my emotional state of mind, as I had enough problems as is and it's all wasted effort to do that. Perhaps my ideals and expectations of other's are a little too high. I've been dealing with mastering emotions most people don't ever experience in their life for 15 years. Bi-Polar is like that.

I agree that Paul probably shouldn't be in this line of business too. At the same time I can also recognize that the manner in which he's being attacked isn't right either. The amount of stress involved with having to deal with delays on your product, with having to respond to hundreds of E-mails every day while dealing with the problems associated with that delay, no less a delay involving bureaucracy, I can understand forgetting to do things. I can understand getting annoyed with customers who are insistent as no doubt there would be many of those customers. To top the whole situation off there's little he can do to solve the issues. If everything was as simple as Paul being a complete dbag to customers for no real reason, then ya, I'd be getting the tar and feathers ready myself, but it's not that simple and to pretend it is, is wrong. It's wrong and no better than what Paul did, maybe even worse as the people doing it become guilty of the same behavior's from doing so. You may be right that Paul might change, that something positive might come out of it. Yet that doesn't justify what's happened, it simply makes things less shitty.
 
BoogerBomb said:
God damn all the parties involved need to fucking grow up and act like a half decent adult. All Penny Arcade did was make sure this controller company pays the price and continues to do so by making sure they keep themselves at a lower level than they should be.

The adult thing to do is fucking get on with life and let this shit be, there are plenty of other issues in the tech industry that deserve an assload more attention that what some PR firm wrote in an email. Too bad the amount of effort people put into this whole stupid non-issue isn't put towards fighting legislation that really hurts internet users.
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No, this is the adult thing to do- get biblical vengeance on the ROID user. There is absolutely nothing wrong with what is happening to PAUL at all. This is the kind of thing that should have happened multiple times to him until he wakes the fuck up and starts treating others like he would like to be treated.
 
dakU7 said:
http://www.natesnetwork.com/Poor-customer-service

There you go.
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Tim just showed me the same link. I mean, I've gotten worst from the people at T-Mobile *bastards* but if this was common knowledge, why did people continue to buy from the guy? Because getting a good product superseded the risk of having to deal with bad customer service. It really sucks because no one showed maturity in this entire episode.
 
Ugh this whole fiasco just gets more and more confusing. The dude who took over PR duties is apparently a high school kid.

N-Control employs Eli Schwartz as a part-time Social Media Consultant. He is an enthusiastic high school student who became one of the Avenger’s earliest super fans, meeting the founder at a trade show. Mr. Kotkin is proud to encourage the development of a bright, enthusiastic young person like Eli.

Eli Schwartz is not, however, in charge of Marketing or PR for N-Control. Previous news reports have credited him as Marketing Manager, a title Mr. Schwartz gave himself without the consent or advance knowledge or N-Control management. This occurred during the period of greatest upheaval following Mr. Christoforo’s dismissal, and N-Control regrets that this mixed messaging reached the public. All press inquiries and media requests should instead be directed to Moisés Chiullan at the [email protected] address.

Contrary to rumors and speculation, Eli Schwartz’s Twitter account is his own and not controlled by Paul Christoforo. Mr. Schwartz is a minor, and consequently, N-Control would appreciate the press and the public’s discretion in their dealings with him.
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GilmourD said:
Wait... The official e-mail address for press inquiries is a Gmail address? Something seems hinky about that, considering they have their own domain.
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Following the publication of an email chain between Mr. Christoforo and one of N-Control’s customers, punctuated by Mr. Christoforo’s acknowledgement of his conduct, N-Control immediately proceeded to extricate Mr. Christoforo’s access to their email and social media accounts, a process that is still ongoing. In the interim, a Gmail address and Twitter account ([email protected] and @AvengerDefender, respectively) have been set up for press inquiries and customer service needs.
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Paulie was posing as someone from N-Control just yesterday, using their company e-mail which he still had access to, in order to respond to an e-mail from Kotaku.
 
pick sides or don't, but this is one big win against bullies. I feel bad, but who can argue the world isn't a better place then it was yesterday, sucks to be him though.
 
plunger said:
They're sending in a kid to do damage control? :rolleyes:

Geniuses at this company.
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I don't think they exactly hired the kid to be their official PR rep, he's just some temp who sort of bigged himself up / misrepresented himself as head of marketing :rolleyes:. They finally got around to hiring what sounds like a PR professional.
“We have to move forward and take care of Avenger’s customers,” Chiullan said. “I can’t worry about the fact that there isn’t a bus big enough for me to throw Paul Christoforo under. The internet did that for me. I think they set him on fire too.” He continued, “I just hope that people will have the common decency to leave his wife and child out of all this. They didn’t send those emails, Paul did.”
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But they really do seem clueless on how to run a tight ship. Inability to keep tight reins on their PR department and suppliers. How do you just let it go a full day without clarity as far as who's supposed to be representing your company.
 
LastQuestion said:
Ya, everyone has. I have too. I however never felt it was necessary to escalate any conflicts. I'd ignore them, go on with my life. I didn't have an ego I needed to protect. Now, if they harassed me, if they started an abusive type of behavior, then I'd fuck them up, and it'd stop, and then I'd move on with my life again. I didn't let their actions guide my emotional state of mind, as I had enough problems as is and it's all wasted effort to do that. Perhaps my ideals and expectations of other's are a little too high. I've been dealing with mastering emotions most people don't ever experience in their life for 15 years. Bi-Polar is like that.

I agree that Paul probably shouldn't be in this line of business too. At the same time I can also recognize that the manner in which he's being attacked isn't right either. The amount of stress involved with having to deal with delays on your product, with having to respond to hundreds of E-mails every day while dealing with the problems associated with that delay, no less a delay involving bureaucracy, I can understand forgetting to do things. I can understand getting annoyed with customers who are insistent as no doubt there would be many of those customers. To top the whole situation off there's little he can do to solve the issues. If everything was as simple as Paul being a complete dbag to customers for no real reason, then ya, I'd be getting the tar and feathers ready myself, but it's not that simple and to pretend it is, is wrong. It's wrong and no better than what Paul did, maybe even worse as the people doing it become guilty of the same behavior's from doing so. You may be right that Paul might change, that something positive might come out of it. Yet that doesn't justify what's happened, it simply makes things less shitty.
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Not sure why you are defending Paul to the extent that you are. Clearly, in many people's eyes, he's the one in the wrong. How is this anymore complicated than Paul being a complete and utter douchebag to the customer? It is that simple. All Paul had to do was be upfront about what was going on in the first place with Dave's order and one or two emails could've resolved the customer's concern and he would have faded back to anonymity. The guy misrepresented himself, threatened the customer, and Penny Arcade. Here, we have a real life douchebag that you see caricatures of in movies becuase you can't believe someone in real life would act this way.

The guy deserves everything he has coming to him (but not his wife or kid, they shouldn't be dragged down by this guys negative behavior). Honestly, reading his response on MSNBC http://ingame.msnbc.msn.com/, you can tell he really is still clueless about his actions.


In one part of the article he states he responded the way he did to the customer because he did not like the 'tone' by which the emails were addressed to him. Then further down the article, he says you can't tell a person's tone in an email when it applies to the the things he says.

I don't wish for this guy's life to be completely ruined, but I wouldn't care if he's completely embarresed of himself. Perhaps that may help him reflect on himself and change his ways.
 
Nearsite said:
Not sure why you are defending Paul to the extent that you are. Clearly, in many people's eyes, he's the one in the wrong. How is this anymore complicated than Paul being a complete and utter douchebag to the customer? It is that simple. All Paul had to do was be upfront about what was going on in the first place with Dave's order and one or two emails could've resolved the customer's concern and he would have faded back to anonymity. The guy misrepresented himself, threatened the customer, and Penny Arcade. Here, we have a real life douchebag that you see caricatures of in movies becuase you can't believe someone in real life would act this way.

The guy deserves everything he has coming to him (but not his wife or kid, they shouldn't be dragged down by this guys negative behavior). Honestly, reading his response on MSNBC http://ingame.msnbc.msn.com/, you can tell he really is still clueless about his actions.


In one part of the article he states he responded the way he did to the customer because he did not like the 'tone' by which the emails were addressed to him. Then further down the article, he says you can't tell a person's tone in an email when it applies to the the things he says.

I don't wish for this guy's life to be completely ruined, but I wouldn't care if he's completely embarresed of himself. Perhaps that may help him reflect on himself and change his ways.
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I'd never say Paul wasn't wrong in how he treated Dave, but I'm not going to overlook that every instance of his being a Dbag involved another individual with his own ego getting in the way for any sort of resolution. I can't blame them for arriving with the sense of entitlement one can feel as a customer. I can't blame them for even getting a little dirty themselves in the process of these conversations. Yet the reason these things got so out of hand isn't because there's just one person being an asshole, it's because they're both being assholes. I suppose what upsets me over the whole thing is that people are so focused on Paul they're unwilling to see what really went on.

As to what people deserve. People deserve the consequences of their actions, as that's what's always going to happen. Whether or not those consequences can be called just, is inconsequential. What's at issue here is that Gabe and Dave are being seen as something they are not. They're not victims. Victims don't ruin people who simply annoyed them. They're as much a social predator, exploiter, as Paul was. They're simply better at it, smarter at it, than Paul. They are wolves, to pretend otherwise is to fall prey to them :p. If you don't really agree with that, well, consider this, the best predators are the one's you don't see, the one's you can't recognize, the one's which can take from you what they want and use you in the manner in which they intend. Gabe's goal was to ruin Paul, and he's using all of you to do it.
 
Nearsite said:
Not sure why you are defending Paul to the extent that you are. Clearly, in many people's eyes, he's the one in the wrong. How is this anymore complicated than Paul being a complete and utter douchebag to the customer? It is that simple. All Paul had to do was be upfront about what was going on in the first place with Dave's order and one or two emails could've resolved the customer's concern and he would have faded back to anonymity. The guy misrepresented himself, threatened the customer, and Penny Arcade. Here, we have a real life douchebag that you see caricatures of in movies becuase you can't believe someone in real life would act this way.

The guy deserves everything he has coming to him (but not his wife or kid, they shouldn't be dragged down by this guys negative behavior). Honestly, reading his response on MSNBC http://ingame.msnbc.msn.com/, you can tell he really is still clueless about his actions.


In one part of the article he states he responded the way he did to the customer because he did not like the 'tone' by which the emails were addressed to him. Then further down the article, he says you can't tell a person's tone in an email when it applies to the the things he says.

I don't wish for this guy's life to be completely ruined, but I wouldn't care if he's completely embarresed of himself. Perhaps that may help him reflect on himself and change his ways.
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I don't think that he really defending Paul....he saying that it is more people acting immature in the case. Dave was childish in the fact that he didn't understand that certain things were out of Paul's hands. Paul could have handled it better but if the product is not in your possession, what can you really do? And the fact that he ran to Gabe speaks volumes. Rereading this, I'm questioning if Dave is an adult. And Gabe didn't conduct himself any better. When he saw that not getting a booth didn't affect Paul, THEN he threatened to make it public. People can say what they want about Paul but in this situation, no one presented themselves as mature adults in the situation.

Paul - being a total dbag to the customer
Dave - not understanding what was going on and then running to "tell on him"
Gabe - having a "do you know who I am, I can screw you up, my **** is bigger" approach in this situation
 
jahsoul said:
I don't think that he really defending Paul....he saying that it is more people acting immature in the case. Dave was childish in the fact that he didn't understand that certain things were out of Paul's hands. Paul could have handled it better but if the product is not in your possession, what can you really do? And the fact that he ran to Gabe speaks volumes. Rereading this, I'm questioning if Dave is an adult. And Gabe didn't conduct himself any better. When he saw that not getting a booth didn't affect Paul, THEN he threatened to make it public. People can say what they want about Paul but in this situation, no one presented themselves as mature adults in the situation.

Paul - being a total dbag to the customer
Dave - not understanding what was going on and then running to "tell on him"
Gabe - having a "do you know who I am, I can screw you up, my **** is bigger" approach in this situation
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It's a relief to hear this from another person :)
 
LastQuestion said:
Gabe's goal was to ruin Paul, and he's using all of you to do it.
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So now Gabe's the big bad wolf? He's some kind of master manipulator that controls millions one teh intarwebs? Good Lord man, your trolling is artistry itself. Gabe is responsible for what he said and no one else. This is the type of business/social gaffe that raging teen nerds love to get all angsty about. So, you've given up defending/minimizing the poor decision/attitude of Mr Paul Christofaro and settled on Gabe at Penny Arcade for being the real bully? Puhleez.
 
I'm not sure how anyone can defend Paul in this. Being the "professional" and PR person and customer service, this entire incident didn't need to happen, but it did, entirely due to his actions.

And it continued, due to his actions.

And in subsequent interviews, he's clearly not apologetic and has a really bad attitude towards the whole thing.

This is not an isolated case where customer is wronged, goes to let other people know the story, and low-and-behold lots of people agree with the customer being wronged. Sure, some may overreact, but Paul got what he dared his customer to give, in essence.

And then we get the trolls who wade into a situation they don't need to be in the middle of, basically being argumentative to be argumentative and hear themselves talk, which in itself does no one any good either, most especially the parties involved. You don't reason with a mob who clamors for "justice" nor do you try to talk logically...
 
Anyone who defends one side and then presumes to know the motives of another is clearly trolling and just looking to stir the pot... Sorry.
 
Magnus said:
So now Gabe's the big bad wolf? He's some kind of master manipulator that controls millions one teh intarwebs? Good Lord man, your trolling is artistry itself. Gabe is responsible for what he said and no one else. This is the type of business/social gaffe that raging teen nerds love to get all angsty about. So, you've given up defending/minimizing the poor decision/attitude of Mr Paul Christofaro and settled on Gabe at Penny Arcade for being the real bully? Puhleez.
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This IS the type of gaffe raging teen nerds love...You think Gabe doesn't know that? You think he didn't use that to his advantage here? Are you sure I'm the one that's trolling?
 
jahsoul said:
I don't think that he really defending Paul....he saying that it is more people acting immature in the case. Dave was childish in the fact that he didn't understand that certain things were out of Paul's hands. Paul could have handled it better but if the product is not in your possession, what can you really do? And the fact that he ran to Gabe speaks volumes. Rereading this, I'm questioning if Dave is an adult. And Gabe didn't conduct himself any better. When he saw that not getting a booth didn't affect Paul, THEN he threatened to make it public. People can say what they want about Paul but in this situation, no one presented themselves as mature adults in the situation.

Paul - being a total dbag to the customer
Dave - not understanding what was going on and then running to "tell on him"
Gabe - having a "do you know who I am, I can screw you up, my **** is bigger" approach in this situation
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Here's the thing guys, if Gabe didn't go public with this, then Paul's douchebagging ways would've continued unabated. He's clearly not a profesional and has no business being in the industry. Gabe didn't oust Paul becuase Paul didn't react (initially) to Gabe banning him from PAX, he ousted Paul becuase Paul became even more obnoxious to Gabe and took personal stabs at him.

If Paul works in the gaming industry, and treats his customers (Dave) and potential business partners (Gabe) in this manner, then it should be called out. This isn't really much different then a customer paying for a service or product at say Best Buy or Sears, being treated rudely, then customer taking the complaint to www.consumerist.com or the BBB. In this case, it was pretty obvious Dave was going to get no where with Paul. What other recourse did he have? He's actually pretty resourceful, becuase it's almost like yelping about a bad experience you had at a business. In this case, Paul was way beyond rude and he was the one taking it to the personal level. If you read his interview on MSNBC, he even states he would've acted differently if he knew who Gabe really was. Does that mean he thinks if you're a 'normal' paying customer, it's OK to be treated like garbage, but people with 'connections' should only be treated professionally?
 
@Nearsite: That MSNBC interview is almost as bad as the original emails to Dave. He plays the martyr card. He isn't apologetic. He blames everyone else. He's really just sorry that he got caught.

Giving the benefit of the doubt, that guy is not very smart, has no real sense of logic, is grossly immature, and absolutely needs to *not* talk to people, especially in any written form. He's just not capable of giving the necessary style of communication.

...that'd be me giving him the benefit of the doubt, but I think that's being blind to most of what he *did* manage to say clearly...
 
LastQuestion said:
This IS the type of gaffe raging teen nerds love...You think Gabe doesn't know that? You think he didn't use that to his advantage here? Are you sure I'm the one that's trolling?
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Did you miss the fact that he did something similar a couple months ago and just wasnt outted publicly at the time?


Did you also miss the fact that noone whom he name dropped and actually knew him had anything positive to say about him? Or that he tried to impersonate someone entirely different?


Paul IS a douche. Major of Douchington to be honest. And yes, your attempt to defend him makes you a troll.
 
Nearsite said:
www.consumerist.com or the BBB.
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Those are the places that handles these types of situations and Dave could have used those avenues. Like I said earlier, it is what it is. Paul got rude after he told Dave that things were out of his hands (which I believe in a situation and the time, it was). Did that give him the right to be a dbag? Heck no! He went from short and sweet to dbag in 3 emails and he should have practiced a little more patience. Talking about patience, why didn't Dave realize that things happen when it comes to high demand items? I have bought many items around the same timeframe and I just had the understanding that this is the time of the year that shipping will be crazy. Can't be mad at anything but my timing..lol. And not trying to trying to paint Gabe as a bad guy but he did come in with the "my cojones are bigger" attitude, especially considering that his first email was regarding cancelling a booth. Paul was a dbag, Dave was sort of a pest and Gabe was well...yeah. *shrugs*
 
Also you missed the fact that he kept doing ilegal CC data handling, by the way of charging preordered items months in advance of the actual delivery.
 
Revdarian said:
Did you miss the fact that he did something similar a couple months ago and just wasnt outted publicly at the time?


Did you also miss the fact that noone whom he name dropped and actually knew him had anything positive to say about him? Or that he tried to impersonate someone entirely different?


Paul IS a douche. Major of Douchington to be honest. And yes, your attempt to defend him makes you a troll.
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I think that it is a difference between defending a person and looking at an entire situation. Yes, Paul is a douche but does that take away from how the other 2 acted in the situation.
 
Revdarian said:
Also you missed the fact that he kept doing ilegal CC data handling, by the way of charging preordered items months in advance of the actual delivery.
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Exactly, Dave was in the right. Besides Paul being a complete douche bag, he was legally in the wrong.
 
LastQuestion said:
I'd never say Paul wasn't wrong in how he treated Dave, but I'm not going to overlook that every instance of his being a Dbag involved another individual with his own ego getting in the way for any sort of resolution. I can't blame them for arriving with the sense of entitlement one can feel as a customer. I can't blame them for even getting a little dirty themselves in the process of these conversations. Yet the reason these things got so out of hand isn't because there's just one person being an asshole, it's because they're both being assholes. I suppose what upsets me over the whole thing is that people are so focused on Paul they're unwilling to see what really went on.

As to what people deserve. People deserve the consequences of their actions, as that's what's always going to happen. Whether or not those consequences can be called just, is inconsequential. What's at issue here is that Gabe and Dave are being seen as something they are not. They're not victims. Victims don't ruin people who simply annoyed them. They're as much a social predator, exploiter, as Paul was. They're simply better at it, smarter at it, than Paul. They are wolves, to pretend otherwise is to fall prey to them :p. If you don't really agree with that, well, consider this, the best predators are the one's you don't see, the one's you can't recognize, the one's which can take from you what they want and use you in the manner in which they intend. Gabe's goal was to ruin Paul, and he's using all of you to do it.
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You're saying Gabe's sole purpose was to ruin Paul. I think he was just trying to expose Paul for what he is. I don't think Gabe has a personal vendetta here. Paul claimed that Dave's opinion doesn't matter because he's just one consumer. But thanks to Gabe, we can see Paul's antics and now we can boycott the products he represents until he decides to grow up. I think Gabe wanted the public to be informed of what kind of person was representing N Controller in PR and I'm glad that it was publicized for everyone to see. I can see how you though Paul was being attacked too much before but now claiming that Gabe just wants to hurt Paul to satisfy his own sadistic desires is just ridiculous. I don't believe that these guys are predators for one second.
 
Nearsite said:
Here's the thing guys, if Gabe didn't go public with this, then Paul's douchebagging ways would've continued unabated. He's clearly not a profesional and has no business being in the industry. Gabe didn't oust Paul becuase Paul didn't react (initially) to Gabe banning him from PAX, he ousted Paul becuase Paul became even more obnoxious to Gabe and took personal stabs at him.

If Paul works in the gaming industry, and treats his customers (Dave) and potential business partners (Gabe) in this manner, then it should be called out. This isn't really much different then a customer paying for a service or product at say Best Buy or Sears, being treated rudely, then customer taking the complaint to www.consumerist.com or the BBB. In this case, it was pretty obvious Dave was going to get no where with Paul. What other recourse did he have? He's actually pretty resourceful, becuase it's almost like yelping about a bad experience you had at a business. In this case, Paul was way beyond rude and he was the one taking it to the personal level. If you read his interview on MSNBC, he even states he would've acted differently if he knew who Gabe really was. Does that mean he thinks if you're a 'normal' paying customer, it's OK to be treated like garbage, but people with 'connections' should only be treated professionally?
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Oh come off it. Are you really going to try to pretend that people, everywhere, in general, don't suck up to their boss? The CEO comes to your office, you're not going to be extra attentive? They expect more than your average person. Demand more and if they don't get it, they can ruin you. So, if Paul, had know, on this bad day of his, that Dave would know someone who could ruin him, then ya, he might've tried to put it out of his head that his friend OD'd, would've put that extra effort there to not let his frustration with all those e-mails asking the same questions, with disappointed customers, angry customers, most likely even abusive one's out of his mind, in order to give certain people with a more demanding sense of entitlement extra attention, just like most of us do.

You said you read that interview, did you somehow forget about the part of where he's being harassed, by random people, he's probably never met. The threats against his wife, and his 2month-old son? Are you honestly proposing that what Gabe did was nothing more than a review at the consumerist? Maybe you'd feel differently, if someone put you up on display, on a bad day, and your family was being threatened, your phone was being inundated with calls of harassment. Although, it's possible you're one of those Dbags taking part in those activities...Did you find that last bit offensive? Yes? I hope so. I hope you found it offensive, perhaps then you can begin to understand why what Gabe did wasn't right. Gabe knew this would happen, knew this is how thing's would go down, and by result intended it all. Intended the loss of employment, the stigma with gamers, the harassment of his home, and as with every public outing like this you can't have it without threats against the person of interest. Yes I just said Gabe intended that as well or are you honestly going to pretend ignorance that this isn't what would happen and will always happen in situations like this?

Like I said, Gabe is as much a predator as Paul, I just don't understand how you guys can't see it by now.
 
Nobody but Paul himself mentioned his wife nor his son, so you can't blame Gabe on that.

And also i wonder, who said that was gonna smear campaign and destroy whom originally? all with a 125 person team?... ohh yeah, it was the Douchington Mayor to Gabe when he didn't recognize who Mike Krahulik is.

As for the other part, sure, Mike wanted the Bully to feel the other end of the shoe. And he is damn glad it is happenning, as it couldn't have happened to a douchier guy.
http://penny-arcade.com/resources/real-talk.html

Btw a predator would go looking for innocent victims, in this case Gabe didn't go out of the way, and the "victim" was as much one as a rapist is one. Vigilante describes Gabe/Mike better than predator indeed, and even then he didn't do any direct action other than posting public info on his wwebsite as on the real internetz with his big boy hat.
 
LastQuestion said:
Oh come off it. Are you really going to try to pretend that people, everywhere, in general, don't suck up to their boss? The CEO comes to your office, you're not going to be extra attentive? They expect more than your average person. Demand more and if they don't get it, they can ruin you. So, if Paul, had know, on this bad day of his, that Dave would know someone who could ruin him, then ya, he might've tried to put it out of his head that his friend OD'd, would've put that extra effort there to not let his frustration with all those e-mails asking the same questions, with disappointed customers, angry customers, most likely even abusive one's out of his mind, in order to give certain people with a more demanding sense of entitlement extra attention, just like most of us do.

You said you read that interview, did you somehow forget about the part of where he's being harassed, by random people, he's probably never met. The threats against his wife, and his 2month-old son? Are you honestly proposing that what Gabe did was nothing more than a review at the consumerist? Maybe you'd feel differently, if someone put you up on display, on a bad day, and your family was being threatened, your phone was being inundated with calls of harassment. Although, it's possible you're one of those Dbags taking part in those activities...Did you find that last bit offensive? Yes? I hope so. I hope you found it offensive, perhaps then you can begin to understand why what Gabe did wasn't right. Gabe knew this would happen, knew this is how thing's would go down, and by result intended it all. Intended the loss of employment, the stigma with gamers, the harassment of his home, and as with every public outing like this you can't have it without threats against the person of interest. Yes I just said Gabe intended that as well or are you honestly going to pretend ignorance that this isn't what would happen and will always happen in situations like this?

Like I said, Gabe is as much a predator as Paul, I just don't understand how you guys can't see it by now.
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I see it that way as well, Gabe has turned to doing what he didnt like Paul doing.
 
LastQuestion said:
Oh come off it. Are you really going to try to pretend that people, everywhere, in general, don't suck up to their boss? The CEO comes to your office, you're not going to be extra attentive? They expect more than your average person. Demand more and if they don't get it, they can ruin you. So, if Paul, had know, on this bad day of his, that Dave would know someone who could ruin him, then ya, he might've tried to put it out of his head that his friend OD'd, would've put that extra effort there to not let his frustration with all those e-mails asking the same questions, with disappointed customers, angry customers, most likely even abusive one's out of his mind, in order to give certain people with a more demanding sense of entitlement extra attention, just like most of us do.

You said you read that interview, did you somehow forget about the part of where he's being harassed, by random people, he's probably never met. The threats against his wife, and his 2month-old son? Are you honestly proposing that what Gabe did was nothing more than a review at the consumerist? Maybe you'd feel differently, if someone put you up on display, on a bad day, and your family was being threatened, your phone was being inundated with calls of harassment. Although, it's possible you're one of those Dbags taking part in those activities...Did you find that last bit offensive? Yes? I hope so. I hope you found it offensive, perhaps then you can begin to understand why what Gabe did wasn't right. Gabe knew this would happen, knew this is how thing's would go down, and by result intended it all. Intended the loss of employment, the stigma with gamers, the harassment of his home, and as with every public outing like this you can't have it without threats against the person of interest. Yes I just said Gabe intended that as well or are you honestly going to pretend ignorance that this isn't what would happen and will always happen in situations like this?

Like I said, Gabe is as much a predator as Paul, I just don't understand how you guys can't see it by now.
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I don't believe that you can actually take Paul's word that he was just "having a bad day". No, his disposition is to act like a douchebag. Now you're proposing that Gabe is an oracle and that he knew Paul's family would be harassed in such a manner. Your arguments get more and more ridiculous. Gabe just wanted the internet to see what kind of treatment Paul's customers get and hopefully maybe tarnish his reputation but to say that he wanted people to harass his entire family is over the top.
 
Revdarian said:
Did you miss the fact that he did something similar a couple months ago and just wasnt outted publicly at the time?


Did you also miss the fact that noone whom he name dropped and actually knew him had anything positive to say about him? Or that he tried to impersonate someone entirely different?


Paul IS a douche. Major of Douchington to be honest. And yes, your attempt to defend him makes you a troll.
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...I've said from the start, that Paul has been a Dbag, is a Dbag. I'm also saying so is Dave, and especially Gabe. It's odd how you state I'm a troll simply for defending the benefit of the doubt and pointing out that both case's shown so far involve customers which had his own ego interfere with whatever positive resolution could occur. It's not only odd but also ironic as most trolls will use that kind of absolutism to drive their arguments.

You know, it just occurred to me that perhaps one of the reasons it's so hard for so many to see these thing's is that they're not really interested in the truth. Perhaps they're more like Paul then they care to admit. Perhaps the reason they don't want to see past it all is because they're like Paul in that they have difficulty in dealing with their frustrations and will at time's take their frustration out on others, and someone like Paul is someone they have no issue taking that frustration out on. He represents no doubt many frustrating events in their lives, and that frustration he represents keeps them from seeing past it all, seeking the truth.
 
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