Getting ATI to support Fixed Aspect Ratio Scaling

http://support.ati.com/ics/survey/survey.asp?deptID=894&surveyID=486&type=web

You can post your feed back there. And for reference, here's an older thread on this issue. Maybe it will explain it better for those of you who don't understand.

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1056786

Recap: I can't run 1280x960 on my 1680x1050, on games that don't support widescreen, because it stretches to 16:10 and hurts my brain. Centereed Timings only works with 16:10 resolutions (So a smaller 16:10 is centered and boxed), but not with any 4:3 resolutions, at least on my monitor.

1280x960 is tall enough that I could live with centered timings and bars on top and bottom. But I can't even do that, cause it stretches all 4:3 to 16:10
 
what I wrote to them this time:


Only options in drivers are for scale to panel size and centered timings. The former will stretch any non-16:10 aspect resolutions (unacceptable), while the latter will run the application in a 1:1 sized box centered in the middle of the screen. Thus many resolutions result in a tiny box with massive areas of black framing the picture. Even at the highest resolutions, there is still a lot of dead space on all sides of the image.

There is a 3rd option not supported by ATI drivers that NEEDS to be. Nvidia drivers can do it: see the 2nd and 5th images here:

http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1029448840&postcount=811


ATI/widescreen users should not be left out in the cold regarding any and all applications that do not support widescreen. We shouldnt feel like we have to switch to the competition to get a fairly straightforward functionality built into the product that should already be there. It has been noted fixed aspect ratio scaling is built into Catalyst MOBILITY drivers... so why not the desktop equivalent?

As more and more users acquire widescreen displays, it becomes a more and more important issue. Please include it in the next release of Catalyst drivers. Thank you.
 
ATI does need to fix this.

However I imagine that a lot of you are vx2025wm owners like me. For this monitor set the resolution to 1400x1050, and any 4:3 games that support that res are golden (you get full horizontal rez but with black bars on the side).

The vx2025wm does not fully respect the centered timings used by ATI. Some resolutions, as mentioned previously will center a little bit (720p for instance) but most are stretched. I believe that is due to the implementation of the 2025's scaler.

The quickest fix ATI needs to make is to be able center everything in software. The framebuffer could be set to 1680x1050 (or whatever is native) and the lower res screen would just be rendered in the middle (ie only the center 640x480, etc pixels get drawn over). the TDMS transmitter grabs the framebuffer and gives the monitor the signal it wants. No performance penalty for this (< 1&#37; I would guess)

The harder solution is to implement software scaling. Same as above except that the card will need to render the scene, but then scale it at correct aspect to the native horizontal rez before finally storing it in the frame buffer. This will take extra work, though I cant say how much.
 
Deusfaux said:
what I wrote to them this time:

It has been noted fixed aspect ratio scaling is built into Catalyst MOBILITY drivers... so why not the desktop equivalent?
Click to expand...


Has this been verified?

The only proof would be to hookup a given monitor to both a desktop with standard Catalyst and a laptop (using external DVI) with mobile Catalyst and see if they behave differently.

Odds are that most laptop displays just have better scalers.
 
I'm pretty sure I've seen laptop users post screenshots of the option in catalyst to do it, not just the result
 
Will a monitor like the BenQ FP241, that can do 1:1, be able to properly display the "Fixed Aspect Ratio Scaling" ?
 
Generally if the monitor supports Hardware scaling u should be golden and not have much to worry about. Tho its not a 100% cause i've seen issues with Certain dell monitors that on certain resolutions even tho they support hardware scaling it doesn't work.
 
I sent a request via that form for this feature because I just joined the WS club and my monitor seems to be one that doesn't work correctly with 'centered timings' and forces stretching, so I get incorrect aspect ratios either way. This seems like a no-brainer feature for gamers, wonder why DAAMiT refuses to implement it. If it doesn't get somewhere soon, I'll have to pick up an NVIDIA card.

Speaking of which, is the 8800 bug with fixed aspect ratio scaling still in the later betas? How likely is it that the 8600's will inherit the problem?
 
With regards to mobility drivers, for work I have a dell 6400 with a x1400. I was getting tired of waiting for drivers so I installed the Desktop cat 7.2's. Fixed aspect ratio works on the laptop display, it works like it should. I can choose 1:1, or event stretch and maintain ratio. Now i can't test it through DVI on my LG 204WT or even my dell E228 at work cause the laptop only has a VGA port. (as noted above, this might just be the laptop lcd's display doing the work... it's the 1680x1050 screen)

A thing to note is that i'm pretty sure the fixed aspect ratio option was broken with the dell drivers.
 
This has been an issue for me too. I'd like to buy a 24" widescreen and get an R600 based card, but I play a lot of older 4:3 games. It sucks not being able to get the most out of the display because the drivers don't support something they should.

Nvidia cards have no issues with scaling (no experience with the 8800s), but they do have issues with a few of the older games I like to play and these issues make them unplayable: Crimson Skies doesn't work with an Nvidia card (even in software mode) and both Midtown Madness games have an issue with triangles appearing all over the screen and flashing different seizure inducing colors (and the Midtown Madness games are the only ones my little sister will play with me, so not having them means she doesn't want to be anywhere near the computer/me when she visits).
 
I just cannot fathom why they would have this in their mobility drivers but not their desktop drivers. And centered timings should have black filler instead of leaving the monitor to force stretching (which is the issue I have) in case I want to maintain sharpness. Unless a hack or something is found, I'll be getting my first NVIDIA card since the GF2 GTS.
 
PliotronX said:
I just cannot fathom why they would have this in their mobility drivers but not their desktop drivers. And centered timings should have black filler instead of leaving the monitor to force stretching (which is the issue I have) in case I want to maintain sharpness. Unless a hack or something is found, I'll be getting my first NVIDIA card since the GF2 GTS.
Click to expand...


As I mentioned two posts above. I use the Catalyst Desktop drivers for my laptop. I figure it might be the laptop's LCD doing the work, but it would not scale properly before using the catalyst 7.2 desktop drivers.
 
Druneau said:
As I mentioned two posts above. I use the Catalyst Desktop drivers for my laptop. I figure it might be the laptop's LCD doing the work, but it would not scale properly before using the catalyst 7.2 desktop drivers.
Click to expand...
That is an outrage, the desktop drivers capable of it, but not when using a desktop? What a mess. Do you think a reg hack could do it? Wonder what key is modified by CCC in that option.
 
Obi_Kwiet said:
My monitor's panel properties.

My monitor > Your monitor. :D
Click to expand...

The issue should be like the OP said. If Nvidia has such a feature so should ATI. No one cares what monitor you have. My monitor can change aspect ratio every time I start BF2 and go back to normal aspect ratio when I return to desktop making mine > yours. However, that's not the issue here. There should be support for this feature in Cat or else what good is Cat? We mind as well be using CP if we are not granted the functionality for HTPC (Home Theater PC) and widescreen use.
 
I ended up getting a dell 2407 rev 04 so I would have a choice of vid card companies. This 24 inch monitor does scale properly.

It sucks that I had to shop carefully for a monitor that would do it instead of with a vid card.

For $681 shipped.

I'd still be using my lg204t if the ati drivers supported the proper scaling, darn I had to step up to a bigger, better lcd..... (I always look for the silver lining).
 
I have had my eMachine 6807 for over three years now, and this issue has never been fixed by ATI. I've e-mailed them once a year or so hoping that as widescreen laptops became more common, they would finally address this problem. No such luck. To this day, if I want to play Icewind Dale or Planescape Torment, I either have to stretch it to a distorted (wide) resolution, or play it at a tiny 640x480. And yes, I understand some monitors may do the scaling, but as far as I know, most laptops use a generic display driver, meaning it's up to ATI to fix the issue. Oh well, my next laptop will feature an nvidia video card, for this very reason.
 
Just throwing this in. Macbook Pro with X1600 Mobility and Omega 7.1 - scaling works perfectly. On my desktop, X1950XT with Omega 7.1 and the wonderful Viewsonic... scaling does not work........

So the Hackintosh works... but the desktop does not... sigh...
 
Guys...

I just installed the 7.3 hotfix for crossfire in Stalker, and guess what - fixed aspect ratio seems to be working now. I can play the game at any resolution I want with black bars rendered around the edges.

Can anyone confirm this? I only had time to try Stalker so I dont know if this is a game thing or a hotfix thing...
 
you only want black bars on the sides, not the top and bottom too.


furthermore it shouldnt be suddenly "working now"

you would say "now I see the option in CCC"


You're telling us you suddenly have a third option in panel properties of "fixed aspect ratio scaling" ?

I doubt that

what resolution is your monitor, what do you have the game set to
 
Deusfaux said:
you only want black bars on the sides, not the top and bottom too.
furthermore it shouldnt be suddenly "working now"
you would say "now I see the option in CCC"
You're telling us you suddenly have a third option in panel properties of "fixed aspect ratio scaling" ?
I doubt that
what resolution is your monitor, what do you have the game set to
Click to expand...

No, I'm saying that "use centered timings" works now, where it didn't for me before. And yes, there should be bars on the top and bottom too - which there are when I choose a vertical resolution that is less than my monitors 1050.
 
Like this:
shot.jpg


This is the game at 1440x900, rendered with bars on ALL SIDES on my 1680x1050 monitor.
 
Cool, I'll have to check it out as 1440x900 when set to 'centered timings' on my setup results in the image being stretched horizontally, but with black bars on the top and bottom (wtf?).

The issue in the thread is separate though. Fixed-aspect ratio means the 4:3, 5:4, etc. image is stretched to the top and bottom of the screen while introducing pillars on the sides to keep the proper aspect ratio. ATi can't even seem to get centered timings right so FARS is pretty hopeless at this point.
 
I just used the Catalyst feedback tool to bring this up again.


I suggest anyone who owns an ATI product or is considering purchasing one do the same
 
this is why I bought a normal square 19" LCD with native 1280x1024. If i ever want to run wide screen I use 1280x720. Which also happens to work great with consoles, 720p. I get black bars at top and bottom, which is absolutely fine and actually looks kinda cool. and I never watch movies on my LCD and Im always arms length or less from the display so 19" is plenty big.
 
I have a hard time understanding why ATI has never fixed this. I want all options present because I am considering a 30" monitor in my future. No I won't buy a 2900XT in Crossfire to drive it, because I am a casual gamer. Besides that doesn't help older games with resolution limits.

But I hate stretched images and am not crazy about scaling either as it makes everything soft.

I want the capability to drive any monitor with 1:1 (black all around) and Aspect (Black on the sides to scale appropriately).

I never want stretch mode (which is what you get unless your card over-rides).

Considering ATI is behind in so many areas, this is just salt in the wound now.

I am not a fan of NVidia and have never owned one, but at this point unless ATI pulls a rabbit out of the hat, my next card will be a NVidia.
 
i told them my next card is an nvidia unless they put aspect scaling in their drivers too.

if they can put it in mobility catalyst they can put it in desktop catalyst
 
Marvelous said:
Nvidia's latest drivers don't support this feature either.
Click to expand...

It was a bug that LOST the feature. At least they had it at one point, which isn't something ATI can say.

And that's still wrong. Their most current drivers support it in all but the 8800 series cards.

The 8800 cards have it supported in the latest beta driver.
 
Deusfaux said:
It was a bug that LOST the feature. At least they had it at one point, which isn't something ATI can say.

And that's still wrong. Their most current drivers support it in all but the 8800 series cards.

The 8800 cards have it supported in the latest beta driver.
Click to expand...

This feature wouldn't sway me to buy a X card but the performance, IQ, and price of cards will. My next vid card is going to Nvidia's card anyway. :)
 
It does work with rhe 162.15 betas, I had been using ati for years, but switched to an 8800gtx.
 
Just sold my X1900XTX and brand new HD2900XT because those stupid assholes wont put the feature in their drivers.
 
Do the latest drivers still lack fixed aspect ratio scaling? How about any news that they will add this in?

To me, the lack of this feature is a deal breaker considering that NVidia drivers have had it for a while now. I still plan on playing a lot of non-widescreen games on a monitor that has no fixed aspect scaling (It seems that most monitors don't include an option for this; especially the cheaper TNs with no video inputs).
 
SockMan! said:
Do the latest drivers still lack fixed aspect ratio scaling? How about any news that they will add this in?

To me, the lack of this feature is a deal breaker considering that NVidia drivers have had it for a while now. I still plan on playing a lot of non-widescreen games on a monitor that has no fixed aspect scaling (It seems that most monitors don't include an option for this; especially the cheaper TNs with no video inputs).
Click to expand...

Does anyone know where we can talk to AMD/ATI directly on this issue? They may not even be aware that this is a deficit in their drivers.

I always liked supporting ATI, I just bought my first Nvidia card this october and unless AMD/ATI gets this feature I will simply buy from NVidia again. This is an Important feature to me.
 
Don't blame ATI I swear Nvidia never has that working ...

I've been trying to get that working on my 8800GTX ever since it got released ...

Playing StarCraft (old school baby) is kinda gay on 16x10 res when the game is 8x6.
 
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