Got an Xbox 360 hands on preview yesterday...impressions....

[Tedium]

Why did it feel like Fable ? They're both rpgs ?
Thanks for the preview but like I said I'm taking your Oblivion comments with a HUGE grain of salt.

Have you played oblivion?

 

[pigpen]

Man what a downer this post is, I don't want to hear this shit! heh I want to hear how awesome the games look and how fun they are.. I think anyone shelling out THAT much cash for the system and games doesn't want to hear it's all bleh

It actually makes me feel good. Maybe all this money i've invested in my PC to be able to OC and upgrade wasn't such a bad move afterall.

In all honesty, the one part of your review i find absolutely unforgivable is the drops in framerates. No doubt, if i sprang for a xBox 360 and a $50 game and was playing at 24fps, i'd be PISSED!!!

 

[Circuitbreaker8]

I think devs just slap on AA at the very end when theyre completely done w/ the game.

 

[Erasmus354]

I think devs just slap on AA at the very end when theyre completely done w/ the game.

It wouldn't surpries me if the "free 4x AA" that the EDRAM supposedly gives actually lives up to the hype. Although it makes you wonder, if it was so easy to implement it why not put it in the beta software so people dont come back and post in these forums that the games are full of jaggies?

 

[Circuitbreaker8]

It wouldn't surpries me if the "free 4x AA" that the EDRAM supposedly gives actually lives up to the hype. Although it makes you wonder, if it was so easy to implement it why not put it in the beta software so people dont come back and post in these forums that the games are full of jaggies?

Well so far, almost every 360 screenshot we've seen lacked AA to some degree....doesn't mean its not gonna have it. As for the impressions, everyone else that went to X05 was impressed with most of those titles, donno what to tell you.

 

[Stereophile]

Have you played oblivion?

No I haven't and I know where you're going with this.

I've read several accounts of hands on play from fans at x360 events on the official forums.

This guy's account of the game is basically "It's Fable in a different setting" and "Oblivion felt like Fable to me, only darker with some nice graphics that need polishing"

I'm sorry but I know without even playing the game it's nothing like Fable. To suggest a similiarity only demonstrates how unfamiliar, and therefore unrealiable, the reviewer is with role playing games and the elder scrolls series in general. That's the only observation ? The graphics don't look that great and it's just like Fable ? He didn't even realize the series doesn't have traditional xp points. I'll say it again, I mean no offense to the reviewer, it's just obvious the guy doesn't know what he's talking about with regard to this game, how could he make any meaningful points ?

it would be like playing an old papyrus nascar sim and in your preview saying, hmm it's basically a race car game. It felt a lot like ridge racer ro me.

 

[badasspenguin]

I was at this event as well..but it sounds like you missed most of it. There were WAY more than 10 people there, each group had 10 people in it. You were invited to stay and play all day. After all the groups got their chance there was a cocktail party at night. There must have been at least 50-75 people there. Not only that, Shane Kim and Peter Moore made an apperance. I was really excited to get a chance to talk with Shane Kim. It wasn't just a blogger event which I had previously been told, in fact Time Magazine, Readers Digest, TV Guide, MTV.com and USA Today were all there as well.

Here are my impressions on the site I write for, EvilAvatar.com

Xbox System - http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6099
PGR3 - http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6116
Kameo - http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6103
Oblivion - http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6129
Perfect Dark 0 - http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6110
And the rest of the titles - http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6131

-bapenguin

 

[Vol]

Thanks for those links. Didn't read yet but I'm gonna do that now

If anyone come across other impressions could you give the link please? Thanks!

 

[Draax]

Well I read the reviews by badasspenguin and they are pretty much the opposite of the OP .... so im back to square one.

 

[jack1201]

I just hope that Sony have same show. Although I know that is impossible.

 

[LynxFX]

I was at this event as well..but it sounds like you missed most of it.

Nah, I was there for the entire thing. 3 to 11. I meant 10 invited through forums and the like, that we could tell. Not sure where the other ladies and gents came from, but yes by the cocktail party the place filled up. But there wasn't any problem getting on any of the 30 demo stations.

Thanks for posting your impressions as well. Always good to show different opinions as no one is going to agree on everything. I'm still not sold on the Xbox360 and especially the launch titles. There's no killer app yet. Some fun ones, yes, but system seller? Not quite. It won't be until the second wave of games come to market that the Xbox360 will show off what it can or can't do and Allard seems to confirm this: http://games.kikizo.com/news/200510/038.asp

...and Oblivian is Fable to me, and that was never an insult to Oblivian. I happened to like Fable. And hearing that it was an older build makes sense now why the videos I've seen didn't reflect what I saw in the game. At least I'm hoping. And anyway, it was just a gut reaction comment about the game after less than an hour of playing it. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[[Fate]Doom]

The OPs comments are almost the exact opposite from other sites that I have read like Engadget, IGN, etc. etc.

As a matter of fact the guy from Engadget said :

Yeah, so the PS3 will probably have the edge over the Xbox 360 in graphics and sheer computational power, but after actually playing some of these games it’s hard to imagine all but the most diehard Sony !!!!!!ys holding out for the 5 - 7 months that’ll pass before Sony introduces their console.

__________________

Most people at the NYC event came away with glowing praise of the X360. Just goes to show you everyone has an opinion and no ones will sway mine.

 

[arentol]

I didn't assume that the event had final hardware, I meant Microsoft has final hardware. If they don't, then they're in big trouble. That said, it was likely that the hardware at the event was either near-final (95+%) or final. The discrepencies like AA likely lie in the unfinished software. But.... aren't the lot of these titles supposed to be launch games?

I just asked about the hardware because the OP said the demo hardware was "all developer SKG's" by which I assume he means "all developer SDK's", and as we all know software SDK's are not usually precisely the same hardware as the final retail versions... Especially pre-release SDK's.

 

[TheCommander]

Seems to me from your impressions, that the Xbox 360s graphics is not as "super" as they were marketed to be. I've read some other impressions as well and some have said the graphics is excellent and others have said it was good but not as good as the hype claimed it to be. Quite frankly, I think the graphics will be just "good" for this gen of consoles. But I don't see this generation of consoles as a huge jump ahead of the last gens.
What sounded most interesting was when you mentioned the 3rd panel which lets you hook it up to a Media Center PC. Does this any normal PC or something along the lines of an ipod?

 

[7718]

Well I for one have to say I hate you and every one else who went to that event. I think it would have been quite a bit of fun to visit nyc and play some next gen games. So if the free AA isn't present in the games is it broken in the hardware? Last time I checked AA was a hardware thing, right? Its something you can force through drivers in older pc games that don't support it, so I would think either it doesn't work like they said it would, or developers are having more trouble getting the framerate solid enough to turn it on. Sad. personally i prefer games like HL2 and Doom3 on my hdtv at 1080i w/no AA compared to say 800x600 with lots of AA but thats just me.

You say you think MS is rushing the xbox360 out to fast? Wow thats what everybody seems to be saying. Is Peter Moore cursed or something? They ought to hire a haitain voodo preist to exercise his demons or something, before he fubars the whole launch. Maybe they could sacrifice J Allard and his boyfreinds (I forget their names, you know that boy band that does the "somebody told me about my transexual girlfriend/boyfreind" song) to the great satan. Well , I guess they already work for him anyways. I'm glad that pengiun dude had pictures on his forum post , or I wouldn't have believed it happened at all.

I bet you 50$ that the ps3 can't do decent FSAA either, at HD resolutions. Sony will just regurgitate that same old "The grainy pixelated look is on purpose, its the "playstation look" which is what they said when people complained about aliasing in ps2 games. The more I hear about next gen systems the more I want a revolution. Heres another bet, IF Nintendo is going with a more traditional single core out of order cpu , nintendo's games will look more advanced on average for the first 3-4 years of the next gen cycle. IMHO game development in the multicore enviroment won't really get efficient till the tale end of the next gen.

 

[Draax]

Nintendo is going with a more traditional single core out of order cpu , nintendo's games will look more advanced on average for the first 3-4 years of the next gen cycle.

Ill go with NO for 1000$ Alex.

 

[pakotlar]

LynFX thank you very much for your impressions. It was an interesting read Can't wait to see how things shape up for the Nov 22 launch.

 

[moralpanic]

The launch is still 6 weeks away, a lot can change in 6 weeks time. It sounds like most of the issues you had with many of the games were polish issues, and a few debugging problems left to go. I also think you went into it looking for problems more so than things they did correctly, which tbh is exactly what the game devs need to hear, and is a good thing for the consumers to hear as well.

I will leave my decision on the games until I see final versions, or reviews of final versions. I still plan on getting an Xbox at launch.

Um they're already starting productions of the 360s... they're only a month away now:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5910312130452993589&q=xbox+360

 

[retardedchicken]

Ill go with NO for 1000$ Alex.

Taking that statement out of context kind of removes the fact that it's opinion doesn't it?

 

[Draax]

Taking that statement out of context kind of removes the fact that it's opinion doesn't it?

Usually opinion is formed through logic. It is not logical that just because the revolution uses a single processor it will have better graphics for 4 - 5years.

You did also read where he said "heres another bet" right before the statement I posted, which would indicate to me, I was accepting his bet, albeit in a smartass way.

 

[Carv]

I was at this event as well..but it sounds like you missed most of it. There were WAY more than 10 people there, each group had 10 people in it. You were invited to stay and play all day. After all the groups got their chance there was a cocktail party at night. There must have been at least 50-75 people there. Not only that, Shane Kim and Peter Moore made an apperance. I was really excited to get a chance to talk with Shane Kim. It wasn't just a blogger event which I had previously been told, in fact Time Magazine, Readers Digest, TV Guide, MTV.com and USA Today were all there as well.

Here are my impressions on the site I write for, EvilAvatar.com

Xbox System - http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6099
PGR3 - http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6116
Kameo - http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6103
Oblivion - http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6129
Perfect Dark 0 - http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6110
And the rest of the titles - http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6131

-bapenguin

Hmm seems both you guys have very different views on PGR3, bapenguin how was the handling in PGR3?

 

[steviep]

While I doubt Nintendo's games will look better than Sony's, I can see a single core or dual core Rev matching the power of the X if their GPU is good and their system is optimized right.

But since when is everything about looks? Reading about the GAMEPLAY on some of these games (the impressions) are what has me more worried, not the lack of AA on everything.

 

[retardedchicken]

While I doubt Nintendo's games will look better than Sony's, I can see a single core or dual core Rev matching the power of the X if their GPU is good and their system is optimized right.

But since when is everything about looks? Reading about the GAMEPLAY on some of these games (the impressions) are what has me more worried, not the lack of AA on everything.

Coming from the me have the 6800gt in its glory days, AA is definitely a preference. If developers can utilize the hardware (games like resident evil4 come to mind) then any of these consoles will push forth amazing visuals.

 

[carlbme]

I'm curious to see how these things progress myself. I've enjoyed my Xbox since day one and am looking forward to the 360. Hopefully some more interesting elements will start showing soon. So far only a few of the games seem to be really new. Alot of it seems to be just the same thing as the current generation...just prettier.

 

[steviep]

Yeah, no shit. But if you read a lot of sites (Matt from IGN comes to mind), the Revolution is "incredibly underpowered". I highly doubt that. While I really hope that the AA issue is resolved with these launch games in the next week or so that they have... I'm really more concerned about how they play. I want some fun, engaging games. Not graphics-whore pleasing visuals.

 

[7718]

Its just my opinion , and one that I've heard from several developers as well , that multicore development is very difficult. From my experience as a gamer, it seems to take 3 or 4 years for developers to really "optimize" for new technology and from what I've heard multithreaded game engines are more difficult than the average new technology. But hey , I'm not a developer I'm just a gamer thats been gaming for what .... 24 years now? Do I think the revolution will be more powerfull in the long run? No. Do I think a single core , fast , out of order processor would be more powerfull in the short term? Of course. It really depends on how fast microsoft can teach developers how to code for their new box, and how long it will take Sony to make a new ps3 analyzer I guess. Once again, its just my opinion. I'm just a pizza guy, I'm not gabe newell. But I think he knows what hes talking about.

bNew technology is a funny thing, at my work we recently got computers (provided by intel biased bullshit abbacus computers ((fuck you abbacus!)) ) they are supposed to make things easier on everybody. Well , they complicate the order taking process , making taking orders take about 20-50% longer than they used to back in the old "write it down on a paper tag" method. Some drivers who had been their for literally 7+ years quit and moved on to other things because they couldn't/wouldn't cope. These same drivers were approx 30% more efficient than the other newer drivers (myself included). So what we gained in ease of stat tracking for managers/owners and lower rate of forgotten side items we probably lost in longer delivery times and veteran crew members. Not to mention the fun when the computers "go down" during a rush, which from my experience with windows based pc's is inevitable.

Theirs some kind of parrallell between the two but I closed last night (got off around 3AM) and damned if i can figure it out now.

 

[Draax]

I don’t understand why everyone says multi-core processing is difficult? Why then are people like Carmack, and various other gamming developers saying they prefer to program for the XBOX360. Hell Carmack said he prefers programming for the 360 over the PC; surely it cannot be as difficult as everyone is making it out to be.

 

[steviep]

Programming for the PC more difficult than the X360? I highly doubt that... $$$ talks.

 

[retardedchicken]

I don’t understand why everyone says multi-core processing is difficult? Why then are people like Carmack, and various other gamming developers saying they prefer to program for the XBOX360. Hell Carmack said he prefers programming for the 360 over the PC; surely it cannot be as difficult as everyone is making it out to be.

Well no programming is really "difficult" for Carmack, so I think we should as a non Godlike programmer how it is

(for the record, I know Carmack is not God, but if his intarweb AKA was GodofProgramming I wouldn't be suprised )

 

[Draax]

Programming for the PC more difficult than the X360? I highly doubt that... $$$ talks.

He didn't say it was more difficult, he said he prefered programming for the X360. If we are not going to believe the people who are actual developing the games, then who are we going to believe ?

And retardedchicken .... no he is a god

 

[texuspete00]

Well, Carmack is uber nerd. He says he likes it because he is closer to the hardware when coding. Like less layers in between the coding and the 0 and 1 crunching. He never really said anything that flies in the face of what Newell said.

... and yeah. It's the money for more ferarri's and rocket projects. The guy is retiring, from games anyway, soon.

 

[steviep]

Carmack is a fantastic programmer, but he is not God. ID is putting out some crappy software recently, anyway. But that's just my opinion. So why would he prefer programming for the 3-core in-order CPU, to an easier out-of-order single-core (or dual core) PC CPU? Did he give any reasoning? Because to me, it seems like there is nothing to 'prefer'.

 

[Kahnvex]

To address in earlier concern about the AA being broken, in terms of it being hardware provided and seemingly not in evidence on the titles shown at the Event.

The power the provides the ability to use AA is from the hardware, meaning that it has to be capable of doing the calculations. The decision to turn it on or off comes from the software maker enabling it in the build.

If the games are pre final build that are being shown, like someone mentioned earlier, they might not have turned it on yet so that they can optimize the rest of the games features and such, and then code it as "on" for the final retail build.

I'm not sure, but I would assume that they will be working on the games until the very last second, and HOPEFULLY enabling AA will come from that final push.

Being that the talking heads that push the PS3 and 360 have been blowing the free AA smoke up our collective areses since day one of the hype, I don't think any gamer who is considering purchasing either system will be satisfied with anything but just that.

Graphics aren't the end all be all (for me) but I want whatever I buy to look good on my HD setup, and I won't pull the trigger on next gen until I find some title that is mostly awesome in all respects and offers something different than my PC can. If a game has excellent game play, I will of course defer to that over graphics, because I'm tired of beautiful boring FPS titles on my PC. HL2 was the last FPS I really enjoyed, but it had more than just graphics going for it, the story was good (up to the end I thought)

Hopefully the next crop of games on both systems will be pretty AND engaging.

 

[Techx]

Carmack is a fantastic programmer, but he is not God. ID is putting out some crappy software recently, anyway. But that's just my opinion. So why would he prefer programming for the 3-core in-order CPU, to an easier out-of-order single-core (or dual core) PC CPU? Did he give any reasoning? Because to me, it seems like there is nothing to 'prefer'.

so crappy software=one of the first game engines with realtime dynamic lighting, bumpmapping and advanced physics, if newbs like you even knew what it takes to create the games that ID makes you wouldn't be talking out of your ass.. no D3 wasn't the holy grail of FPS games but it and it's engine was far from crappy.. That's MY opinion....

 

[Mojo3k70]

so crappy software=one of the first game engines with realtime dynamic lighting, bumpmapping and advanced physics, if newbs like you even knew what it takes to create the games that ID makes you wouldn't be talking out of your ass.. no D3 wasn't the holy grail of FPS games but it and it's engine was far from crappy.. That's MY opinion....

As harsh as this may sound, I agree completely.

I love to just sit down and fiddle with/test certain aspecs of an engine including the more recent Doom 3 engine. Let me tell you, the d3 engine is capable of amazing things that just were not displayed as much as other games (eg: hl2 and its physics).

 

[steviep]

So I'm a "n00b" because I don't like Doom 3? I didn't say the Doom 3 engine was crappy. In fact, the engine is far from crappy. But in case you've forgotten (and I think you have), Game engines /= games.

Just because it had good looking dynamic lighting and bump mapping, that doesn't mean the game itself was good. Just because it had a scary atmosphere, it doesn't automatically make it a good game. Just because Carmack programmed it well, doesn't mean the game was good! God you graphics whores really boil me sometimes.

 

[Kahnvex]

I'll agree that the Doom 3 engine was one awesome looking piece of work, but I'll have to back ol' StevieP that regardless of how it looked, the game sucked. IT had wow, but that WOW wore off fast.

So the software was great, but the GAME was crap.

How many times does a wall need to pop open and spew hateful demonites out of it before it becomes boring. Cinematically though, it was great, cutscenes were awesome. I'd pfefre an engaging story to go with my cutting edge graphics. I know it was just Doom, and I like 75% of what it had to offer, but the ending plain sucked.

With the ability to cinematically astound people, how hard is it to add something cool and coherent besides run here, kill that.

I think half the appeal of Fear will be that it is scary and will make you keep guessing as to whats going to happen. Take those cutscenes and disturb the shit out of me. BUT, explain whats going on as you do it. That would be nice.

Carmack has always been King Shit of the programmers, but the rest of ID has become so fragmented from what it once was, it's like the magic has left. Hopefully Raven will keep us entertained long after ID no longer rules the roost.

 

[Draax]

Hey guys, you do realize that Doom 3 was more an engine tech demo then a game right ? You openly admit that the game engine is very good, which it is, so doesn't that mean that Carmack did a damn fine job developing the engine?

Personally I will take Carmacks word, over the word of an armchair programmer on the [H]ardOCP forums, ... but thats just me.

 

[DragonMasterAlex]

Ill go with NO for 1000$ Alex.

To be fair, you took his quote out of context and removed "IF", which is an important qualifier.

In any case, Nintendo is using an IBM PowerPC based processor, just like PS3 and Xbox360. I'm not sure whether a basic PowerPC CPU is in-order or out-of-order, but he's certainly right that Sony and MS both made a mistake in choosing to revert to a coding model that pretty much died a decade ago.

Jason

 

[badasspenguin]

Hmm seems both you guys have very different views on PGR3, bapenguin how was the handling in PGR3?

I thought it was a little bit more arcadey than previous Gothams, but it was a good thing. The inside the car view is amazing.

and on earlier comments, there were very few games that overall graphically blew me away. Each one had this and that effect that was really neat (the explosions in PD0 come to mind, or the smoke in CoD2).

Overall, I liked the system itself the best, the interface the online stuff. XBox Live arcade is going to be pretty cool, especially if they work the indy development stuff into it. I'm glad you guys enjoyed my articles!