Lets Look a Little Deeper Into This OCZ Issue

[computerpro3]

You started it by mentioning the PCP&C and OCZ debate .

actually YOU are the one that brought it up. You're arguing skills are matched only by your intelligence.

 

[Ice Czar]

mandatory cooling off period starts now

you two just love to lock horns
I'll be reveiwing the thread again in full after dinner,
it will likely reopen then with commentary

 

[burningrave101]

It's amazing how every thread you walk into goes into the toilet.

Whats amazing is how many childish users we have on the forums that take personal offense to things said about computer hardware lol. Instead of just debating their opinion about the product they see the need try and degrade the user for saying something they deem offensive, whether it be true or false, about a product they use or support.

actually YOU are the one that brought it up. You're arguing skills are matched only by your intelligence.

I see that you must now resort to negative remarks to defend PCP&C.

I think we should keep the topic on the subject of OCZ power supplies instead of HardForum users.

However I am not going to turn this into a pcp&c vs OCZ thread, for one because it's pretty obvious which company will win , and two, because you know what will happen between me and you pertaining to the quality of the thread. I don't even think I was the one that brought up pcp&c this time. So let's not take this any further, mmkay?

My first reply had nothing to do with OCZ vs PC Power and Cooling. It only concerned my ideas and reasoning on which the failure rate of the PowerStream might seem higher then other brands includeing PC Power and Cooling. I wasn't trying to show one was better then the other, only that the failures you found through google are common failures associated with any large quantity of power supplies and can be attributed to any number of problems that in this case point more towards an issue with an individual motherboard instead of the power supply itself.

sure, in a normal, everyday situation. pcp&C can handle droops down to 60V thats HALF of spec. OCZ bottoms out earlier, look at the maximum pc review. OCZ would shut down, pcpC keeps on chugging. The OCZ got outclassed by neopower, and PCP&C and got a rather normal 7 verdict in the review. And for looks, imho it looks downright gaudy, I love pcp&c's "labeless" matte black look with stealth black sleeved cables. It speaks of class, not rice. And I can't hear my turbocool either so....

Oh, and can I have a link to that "guy" you mention so I can have a good laugh?

And how often does your normal house voltage drop so much below 120V that the OCZ PowerStream would shut off?

The PC Power and Cooling also got outclassed by the NeoPower in that review because the TurboCool was too expensive and was too LOUD. I dont care if you can't hear your TurboCool at all because its a loud PSU and everyone knows it. It was one of the reasons MaximumPC deducted points on its score.

You can sleeve any power supply yourself or order it from some place like FrozenCPU who will do it for you.

That guy i mentioned was someone on the MSI forums in the nVidia motherboard section. He was talking about how he just got an RMA replacement for his Tagan that had just died. I dont know how you could find it funny though considering your limited knowledge on quality control and failure rate associated with any large product shipment.

There very well may be an issue between the OCZ PowerStream 520w and MSI K8N Neo2 Platinum but i doubt its something wrong with the PSU itself. This MSI board has more reported bugs and issues then you can keep track of so this is most likely just another one to add to the list.

My OCZ PowerStream 520w and MSI K8N Neo2 combo has been running just fine for a month now.

 

[computerpro3]

Whats amazing is how many childish users we have on the forums that take personal offense to things said about computer hardware lol. Instead of just debating their opinion about the product they see the need try and degrade the user for saying something they deem offensive, whether it be true or false, about a product they use or support.



I see that you must now resort to negative remarks to defend PCP&C.

I think we should keep the topic on the subject of OCZ power supplies instead of HardForum users.



My first reply had nothing to do with OCZ vs PC Power and Cooling. It only concerned my ideas and reasoning on which the failure rate of the PowerStream might seem higher then other brands includeing PC Power and Cooling. I wasn't trying to show one was better then the other, only that the failures you found through google are common failures associated with any large quantity of power supplies and can be attributed to any number of problems that in this case point more towards an issue with an individual motherboard instead of the power supply itself.



And how often does your normal house voltage drop so much below 120V that the OCZ PowerStream would shut off?

The PC Power and Cooling also got outclassed by the NeoPower in that review because the TurboCool was too expensive and was too LOUD. I dont care if you can't hear your TurboCool at all because its a loud PSU and everyone knows it. It was one of the reasons MaximumPC deducted points on its score.

You can sleeve any power supply yourself or order it from some place like FrozenCPU who will do it for you.

That guy i mentioned was someone on the MSI forums in the nVidia motherboard section. He was talking about how he just got an RMA replacement for his Tagan that had just died. I dont know how you could find it funny though considering your limited knowledge on quality control and failure rate associated with any large product shipment.

There very well may be an issue between the OCZ PowerStream 520w and MSI K8N Neo2 Platinum but i doubt its something wrong with the PSU itself. This MSI board has more reported bugs and issues then you can keep track of so this is most likely just another one to add to the list.

My OCZ PowerStream 520w and MSI K8N Neo2 combo has been running just fine for a month now.

I will respond tomorrow, including a letter directly from the CEO of PCP&C and quotes from MAXPC. Try not to get it locked before then.

 

[thelostrican]

i personally own various rigs, and i have an own a pcpc 510 deluxe, an antec 550 and a old fortron that should have died a long time ago, but it refuses to die....

anyhow my syster needed a psu so i gave her the antec, an ordered a 520 powerstream first one was doa, it happens, i sent it back to the egg, second one was doa, darn i must have the worst luck ever. so i sent it back got my refund and ran away as fast as i could(the darn psu was getting expensive by now) an bought another pcpc the sli version for the future, just in case(should be arriving anytime soon).
so i didnt get to play with the ocz 520.

i truly dont think that they should be compare in the same category, in my opinion the pcpc is a much better psu, and it should be, as it cost a lot more, and with that i must say that not everybody can afford a pcpc.

and thats were the ocz comes in, there must be like a bad bacth or something around. i would try one again, maybe when the fortron dies i'll buy an ocz, but for now i need a break from them.
my 2 cents

 

[Ice Czar]

:group hug: can't we all just get along?

might as well ask Lex Luthor to snuggle with Superman
of course in this case they both aspire to be the arch-villain

rivalries (provided they dont get out of hand) often kick over a few rocks for the rest of us to look under

You're arguing skills are matched only by your intelligence.

I would consider that a flame
where it not for burninggrave101's well deserved reputation for debating skills
thus its an unintended compliment

both are making valid points (so many Im not going to inventory them)
of course they are turning a tin ear to each other

 

[burningrave101]

I will respond tomorrow, including a letter directly from the CEO of PCP&C and quotes from MAXPC. Try not to get it locked before then.

Careful what you quote out of MAXPC because i have the issue laying right here

i truly dont think that they should be compare in the same category, in my opinion the pcpc is a much better psu, and it should be, as it cost a lot more, and with that i must say that not everybody can afford a pcpc.

My reasons for going with the OCZ PowerStream 520w wasn't the cost factor because its not a cheap power supply ither even though its less then the TurboCool 510w.

My reason for going with the PowerStream is because i couldn't think of one single justifiable reason for paying more and getting a PC Power and Cooling PSU.

My two main reasons for going with the PowerStream was looks and noise level. The PowerStream is very quiet compared to a TurboCool and the aesthetics are much more appealing, especially in a case that has LED fans and CCFL's.

Generic brand power supplies are primarily used in the majority of computers on the market today and they are running the same types of systems that most of us are running without issues most of the time. Its when you start factoring in overclocking however that the power supply undergoes more stress and is more likely to fail.

As long as you stick to quality power supplies such as Antec, Enermax, Fortron and OCZ then most users should never have an issue.

Its pretty pointless to lay down $200 on a power supply when a $75 power supply would of been able to power the PC more then sufficiently.

But when your talking about people that buy FX-55's and X800XT PE's then its pretty obvious their going to want to buy the most expensive and very best PSU available as well even if they dont need it.

 

[Ice Czar]

thelostrican I would point out the reason these two lock horns over this issue on a regular basis
for one, the latest specs published by OCZ match those of the Turbo Cools
thus they aspire to be the top dog, there is some question as to the actual validity of those specs as they differ substantially from the Topower P6 series specs which its based off of, and OCZ hasnt come forward to explain that

secondly the fact computerpro3 started a thread about OCZ guaranteed that eventually burninggrave101 would comment,
and that the debate would once again ensue

 

[thelostrican]

burningrave101: i follow you the pcpc is not a fancy psu, it doesnt look pretty.
i personally dont have a window on my computer so looks was not a major concern, noise was , to my surprise i cant hear it(but noise is very much a personal call),i am guessing the ocz is more silent.

for me it was stabiltity while pushing it to the max, and quality, (the insides of pcpc psu are just an incredible work of art), that made me buy the first pcpc. truly they are expensive, i dont think to much about it, its something that is important, and that once you aquire it ,will and should last for a long time.

one of my rigs has a fx55, and xtpe. so yeah...more a matter of taste and money, than a matter of good decision making....

my antec 550 couldnt handle the fx system overclocked.i had the ocassional restart etc. then again i have a lot of crap in that system. the pcpc in the other hand is very happy there.

ill say that the ocz is a good psu but not the top dog. most people wont notice any difference running one or the other. but a minority will see a diference in stability and oc speeds. and this mionority will grow with the sli configurations etc.

Ice Czar:
thx for letting me know.
i am just lending my opinion, it might help someone
at least for me pcpc is the top dog, i think that you have to own one to truly appreciatte it. the quality and craftmanship are just incredible. i have no other words for it.

i think some of the problems with the msi neo2 and the ocz psu's are because of the mobo. i had some issues with my antec too. but the pcpc has no issues in my combo, why? i dont know

 

[Maniacmous]

Generic brand power supplies are primarily used in the majority of computers on the market today and they are running the same types of systems that most of us are running without issues most of the time. Its when you start factoring in overclocking however that the power supply undergoes more stress and is more likely to fail.

[snip]

But when your talking about people that buy FX-55's and X800XT PE's then its pretty obvious their going to want to buy the most expensive and very best PSU available as well even if they dont need it.

I agree on the thing about the generic power supplies part, its true, most of the systems out there are Dells, HP and the like that use generic power supplies. Still, we (at least I'd assume many of us here...bear with the generalization please) overclock, which tends to put more stress on a PSU than running a system at stock...as you noted above.

That being said, it is the first part of the second quote that I have issues with. You claim that they don't need the very best PSU out there (I'm assuming only due to its more expensive without necessarily any additional performance output). I merely want to add my two cents on the fact of: if I were spending my hard earned money on a system with a processor that is over 500 dollars (closer to 1000), and a 500+ video card...I'd quite happily spend a little more on the PSU and a good UPS (and whatever else necessary) to protect that investment - because even if you have that kind of money to burn (and sometimes in the case of a bad PSU, that can happen literally, again, as I'm sure you well know), it would be a huge waste of the rest of the money.

As a man that has been building PC's for a decent amount of years now (about 7 years...I'm only 20 though...) I most certainly consider the PSU one of, if not the most, important pieces of hardware in a computer (and one that if invested wisely in, can outlast almost any other upgrade). It is the backbone for any good system, I'd hate to cheap out, and risk (even if it doesn't happen...merely risk) the loss of my system's uptime or even worse, lose parts.

 

[burningrave101]

I think i'm going to go ahead and beat computerpro3 to the punch on the MaximumPC article .

Here is a quick breakdown for the results of the tests they did.

System Setup:

3.4Ghz Prescott
IC7-Max3
3GB Crucial PC3200
GeForce 6800 Ultra
2x 7200 rpm drives
2x 15,000 rpm drives
Adaptec PCI SCSI card
CD-RW + DVD+RW
Sound Blaster Live!
10/100Mbps Ethernet card
2x 120mm fans

Because power supplies operate less efficiently at high temperatures, we conducted our tests in a poorly ventilated room heated to around 100 degrees Fahrenheit to simulate a hot summer day.

First we have overall efficiency of the OCZ PowerStream 520w vs the PC Power and Cooling 510w Deluxe.

Note that we measured the number of watts drawn from the electrical outlet, whereas power suplies are rated by the wattage they can provide to the computer. This is generally 60-70 percent of what is drawn from the outlet, as some energy is lost to heat, electromagnetic radiation, and other environmental effects.

OCZ PowerStream 520w - Rated Output = 520w / Power Draw (Typical) = 363w / Power Draw (Peak) = 379w

PC Power and Cooling Turbo-Cool 510 Deluxe - Rated Output = 510w / Power Draw (Typical) = 375w / Power Draw (Peak) = 386w

As you can see the PowerStream drawed less power from the outlet making it more efficient.

Connectors:

OCZ PowerStream 520w - ATX 2.0 Compatible YES / 8 peripheral / 2 floppy / 2 SATA / 1 PCI Express

PCP&C Turbo-Cool 510 Deluxe - ATX 2.0 Compatible NO / 7 peripheral / 1 floppy / 2 SATA / 0 PCI Express

Both power supplies passed the Load Test.

The PowerStream didn't do as well on the 60V input test but that shouldn't really matter because the voltage in your house is never going to drop that low.

Next, we simulated a severe power fluctuation. We used a voltage regulator to decrease the voltage of the electricity being sent from the outlet to the PSU from a starting point of 110V to a low of about 60V. We then measured the new output voltage on the 12V line. Ideally, this would reigster little or no change from the initial value. To be fair, you're unlikely to experience a 50-volt sag in real life. A brownout usually reduces voltage to between 90 and 100 volts, which all the PSUs in this roundup were able to handle.

The main reasons for the PowerStream only get a score of 7 is because of it not having Active PFC and they said the voltage accuracy could of been better.

Here is a pretty good rundown of what Active PFC is.

As for those of you that are wondering what "Active PFC" is and why its important, here's the gist of it: It stands for "Active Power Factor Correction"... as opposed to "Passive Power Factor Correction". "Active" means that the powersupply will handle anywhere from 100-240V from the AC outlet without requiring a switch to toggle between 115/230 (like every passive powersupply has had since the beginning of time). This is good news for those that take their computers traveling and have problems remembering which country uses which voltage (although I have no idea why such people wouldn't just go out and get a laptop). It's also supposed to make the powersupply more efficient, suppress more EMI... do the dishes... increase sense of well being... etc... but for our purposes, we'll just stick with "automatic voltage handling".

http://www.gamingin3d.com/articles/ps_roundup/main.shtml

Their initial 12V voltage test showed 12.27V on the PowerStream which isn't that far off and is easily adjustable through the external pots on the rear of the PSU to make it spot on.

The Turbo-Cool 510 is also quite loud and in tests has shown to put out around 44dBA under load. The OCZ PowerStream is rated for 23dBA and is near silent.

Now we have the warranty policy for both power supplies.

This PC Power & Cooling, Inc. product is warranted to be free from defects in material and workmanship for a period of 5 years from the date of purchase. PC Power & Cooling, Inc. agrees to repair or replace the product, at our option, at no charge, if, during the warranty period, it is returned to our factory with shipping charges prepaid, and if our inspection reveals that the product is defective. Charges for removing or installing the product are excluded under the terms of this warranty agreement. Products returned without an authorization number will not be accepted.

This warranty shall not apply to any product which has been subject to connection to a faulty power source, alteration, negligence, or accident, or to any product which has been installed other than in accordance with the instructions.

THIS WARRANTY IS IN LIEU OF ALL OTHER WARRANTIES, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED. IN NO EVENT SHALL PC POWER & COOLING, INC. BE LIABLE FOR DAMAGES FOR A BREACH OF WARRANTY IN AN AMOUNT EXCEEDING THE PURCHASE PRICE OF THIS PRODUCT.

We offer 3-year unlimited warranty supported by OCZ Technology’s exclusive PowerSwap™ program with proof of purchase; additional 2-year limited warranty covers repair (Customer is responsible for shipping costs to return thier PSU to OCZ).

For the first 3 years of the warranty you can get a new replacement instead of a repair.

Price:

OCZ PowerStream 520w - $130
PCP&C Turbo-Cool 510 Deluxe - $200

If you want the 24-pin connector for a PCI-Express board then you'll have to go with the Turbo-Cool Express which is $230.

"In addition to being great performers, the PowerStreams are loaded with connectors, including 24- and 8-pin connectors for LGA775 and workstation motherboards. The PSUs also offer specially shielded cables for video cards and hard drives, and all other power leads are carefully sheathed and wound to combat tangling. Throw in a slick mirrored finish and an industry-leading five-year warranty, and the PowerStream looks pretty appealing."

PowerStream 600 - "This is probably the highest quality PSU ive ever tested and the power output is seemingly endless - it can handle peaks of 700w+ which will sate even the most demanding of enthusiasts. Testing the Driverheaven watercooled P4 extreme edition and FX55 test rigs overclocked to the hilt with an X800Xt and 6800 ultra and loaded down with four gigabytes of high performing ram, five or six hard drives in raid 0 this power supply just walked through the test results barely shifting from reference rail figures. If you are in the market for a futureproof, insanely powerful and reliable power supply which looks beautiful in any case modders rig then look no further, OCZ have just pushed the performance boundaries again."

"When it comes to power supplies, many folks skimp out and go for the cheapest - well you do get what you pay for. OCZ's PowerStream PSU has set the standard for stability, looks and overall load-bearing ability that makes it the best PSU we looked at in 2004."

"I couldn't believe what I was seeing! OCZ must have some kind of voltage control inside this PSU that changes the rails under heavy loads. I even checked my software voltmeter readings and they were all on par with my multimeter readings. I am sold on this power supply. It is an overclockers dream come true...it looks to me like OCZ has crushed the competition. This power supply means business and then some. I would recommend this power supply to anyone with a highly modded, overclocked and tweaked system. There is nothing else like it out there."

"The OCZ PowerStream 520W Power Supply sets itself apart from others because the +3.3V, +5V, and +12V rails can be easily adjusted. This gives it a clear power advantage over others, resulting in total stability. In addition, 2 very quiet fans make it stealth quiet, and it has the best warranty of any PSU on the market. Need worry-free power? Watch the Video to find out more..."

"A superb example of a power supply geared to overclockers is the new OCZ Power Stream 520. It was designed from the ground up for overclockers, and features individual rails that are even tweakable for higher output or exact values. There are even LEDs on the rear of the black chrome case that tell you if the PS is operating in spec, under spec, or over spec. These same LEDs can even be used to tweak individual rails for optimum power. 520W sounds like a lot of power and it is, but truthfully, this power supply would probably be rated at 700 watts by a manufacturer who was trying to impress with specs. The 520W rating is conservative and this PS can easily handle almost anything an overclocker wants to throw at it. While the OCZ Power Stream are new to the market, they have quickly become favorites of the extreme overclocking community."

From Enermax Noisetaker vs. OCZ Powerstream article: I have to admit OCZ Powerstream has performed better in delivering stable voltage to the system. Moreover, I personally encountered a strange sort of pleasure tinkering with the Powerflex feature on the OCZ Powerstream. Anyway, higher power is increasingly in demand, and you simply cannot lose by replacing your old PSU with one of these top quality power supplies. OCZ's Powerstream recieves our editor's choice award.

This power supply will be the favorite with many overclockers, the strong rails and adjustability of the 3.3v and 5v lines will ensure the success of this power supply. I found that the power supply is very durable in operation and being unable to burn it out was definitely a plus.

 

[EnderW]

First we have overall efficiency of the OCZ PowerStream 520w vs the PC Power and Cooling 510w Deluxe.


OCZ PowerStream 520w - Rated Output = 520w / Power Draw (Typical) = 363w / Power Draw (Peak) = 379w

PC Power and Cooling Turbo-Cool 510 Deluxe - Rated Output = 510w / Power Draw (Typical) = 375w / Power Draw (Peak) = 386w

As you can see the PowerStream drawed less power from the outlet making it more efficient.

7 watts is not exactly a runaway victory. Besides people buy PCP&C for the 1% voltage ripple, not for efficiency.

Connectors:

OCZ PowerStream 520w - ATX 2.0 Compatible YES / 8 peripheral / 2 floppy / 2 SATA / 1 PCI Express

PCP&C Turbo-Cool 510 Deluxe - ATX 2.0 Compatible NO / 7 peripheral / 1 floppy / 2 SATA / 0 PCI Express

PCP&C has just released a PCI-E version. The 510 Turbo-Cool Deluxe has been out for over a year if I'm not mistaken, so when it was released ATX2.0 wasn't even out yet.

Their initial 12V voltage test showed 12.27V on the PowerStream which isn't that far off and is easily adjustable through the external pots on the rear of the PSU to make it spot on.

Why don't you show the figures from both units? Is it because the PCP&C got a better score or did you just forget?

Personally I'd rather my PSU have the right voltage without me having to manually adjust it.

The Turbo-Cool 510 is also quite loud and in tests has shown to put out around 44dBA under load. The OCZ PowerStream is rated for 23dBA and is near silent.

Yes, the Turbo-Cool is loud, most people don't care - stability is more important than noise.


I don't see what you were trying to prove with this post. Seems like a lot of useless rambling to me

 

[Ice Czar]

1. efficiency varies with the load on the supply each model is different
for the 470 Mike reviewed (DC Load Watts \ Efficiency %)
65W\70%, 90W\73%, 150W\76%, 200W\79%, 250W\80%, 300W\80%, 400W\78%, 470W\78%
since Maximum PC didnt test that, the results are misleading, invaild test

2. a 50VAC drop in your house circuit isnt extreme, its just a serious brownout
and shit happens, if your bright you have a UPS
however the ability to survive such a test is indicative of both the line regulation (AC regulation) and the load regulation (DC Regulation)
A Technical Postscript: Output Voltage Regulation and AC Voltage
however the total load on the supplies in the Maximum PC test was limited to 125 Watts if I remember correctly, not a great load

3. Warranty, 5 years full vs 3 years full + 2 years limited (you pay parts)

4. as mentioned before there are very few competent reviewers, in fact all of them have somewhat flawed proceedures in my opinion, even Mike Chin and Lee Garbutt (between the two of them if they test the same supply though its damn near perfect, but still no destructive testing if they started to do what Maximum PC did Id be happy, provided they got true high res DC RMS readings for overshoots while doing it)

5. The Maximum PC review was seriously flawed in its conclusions and final ratings
we should look at the results of their specific tests, and ignore their final ratings, since each of us values different attributes, I care less about noise, modular cables, fan controls, ect
Im primarilly concerned about actual power stability, the lack of overshoots and the ability of the supply to deal with adversity, a typical "server farm" point of view, the damn thing is in a different room why should I care ?

so "features" are a personal thing, and most any feature can be replicated with money
you can order a PCP&C Deluxe and you have access to the pots,
you can order most any supply modular,
and you can mod most any supply to make it quiet
what you cant do is mod a supply to increase its transient response (unless your gee )
or filter out the AC Ripple, or increase its VAC operating range

6. The OCZ specs clainm a 1% load regulation, even in the Maximum PC review, that appears to be an inflated claim

7. I think the review was indicative, but not definative
for more on it > Maximum PC PSU ROUNDUP

 

[MrDigital]

A couple of things:

1) Whoever said they couldn't hear their PCP&C 510 is either legally deaf or running a Tornado. It's quite loud.

2) No one, and I mean *no one* can touch PCP&C's warranty/customer serivce. I have managed to blow out 3 of them (they made a batch of 250 or so about 8 months ago with defective coils and I managed to get 3 of them) and everytime PCP&C *cross-ships* to me, free of charge.

I call them, say "yo my PSU is dead"; they look me up in the system; they say "are you still at this address?"; I say "yes"; within 2 days I have my fedex'd brand new PSU with a return label; I take the new one out of the box, put the old one in, tape it, throw on the new label and drop it off at FedEx.

No shipping costs either way (unlike OCZ and every other vendor), no hassles about why it's dead (the guy at PCP&C actually *apologized profusely* to me for having 3 blow up), nothing. Not only that but you don't have to go through level 1, 2, 3 tech support. You call the number and you get one of the people who actually work on the units.

That, and that alone, is worth any amount of dollars that PCP&C costs more than it's competitors. Especially against OCZ, a company that's proven itself time and again to be a rather weak quality control corporation. Anyone remember the not-silver "silver" thermal compound?

Whether or not there's an issue with the OCZ Powerstreams I still wouldn't recommend them to anyone, especially not with the amount of other quality PSUs there are out there.

-MrD

 

[Ice Czar]

hmmm thats strange PCP&C's warranty specifically states you pay shipping
they where very embarassed I assume

OCZ has been very good in the customer relations department recently
they sold the company and are no longer the same insensitive and we could care less clods
(now they are just deceptive spin doctors but they make good products and stand behind them)
they bent over backwards to replace very expensive video cards that where fried by the initial defective batch of ATX12V v2.0 600 Watt Powerstreams

the Powerstreams are very good supplies
that exceed spec (to what degree being unkown)
these threads tend to polarize the issue
persoanlly, I have no problem with the supplies themselves and feel they where underated in the Maximum PC review

however I do have issues with any PSU company that isnt forthcoming with information
or practices deceptive or misleading marketing, and in this they transgress to one degree or another

 

[ivanchu02]

i seriously do not think that PC power and cooling got any contract from dell.

the only reason why it says dell power supplies on their website is because they are dell compatible meaning that they fit in the specially designed cases that dell designs.

you must be insane if you think that dell needs to buy through a tiny company like pc power and cooling when literally tons and tons of chinese manufacturers are tripping all over each other fighting for dell's business

if dell actually wanted something to do over spec, they wouldnt lock the bioses and put nanya memory into their systems.

i think this is where you would bring up the point that alienware is using pc power and cooling power supplies for their systems. alienware does move a good amount when compared to other gaming pc builders, but when you compare that to dell, they are a drop in a bucket the size of the pacific for the volume they do.

alienware makes a ton of money on each of their systems so they can afford to buy better parts for their systems because they'll just end up charging their customers more anyways. their customers are also looking for top of the line parts at a premium.

dell customers are looking for the best price from a brand they recognize. dell moves MILLIONS of computers. lets be nice and make up a situation and say that "manufacturer A" would build a PSU for PC power and cooling AND dell for the exact same price, this is a gigantic stretch. PC power and cooling needs to make profit. lets just say its $10 on a model of the power supply. lets multiply that by the millions of computers they sell. you're talking about tens of millions of dollars spent on a brand name that is not well known in the mainstream computer user market and will NOT help sell the computer at all.

I think if this pc power and cooling name was so important to dell then they would post it SOME WHERE. i looked through the whole configuration of the XPS, dell's gaming computer and i didnt find PC power and cooling anywhere in the description or options. hell i didnt find any mention of a power supply, because it is probably a marginal power supply that wouldnt help sell the system.

in conclusion, pc power and cooling did not land some huge contract with dell.

Thanks

 

[ivanchu02]

sure, in a normal, everyday situation. pcp&C can handle droops down to 60V thats HALF of spec. OCZ bottoms out earlier, look at the maximum pc review. OCZ would shut down, pcpC keeps on chugging. The OCZ got outclassed by neopower, and PCP&C and got a rather normal 7 verdict in the review. And for looks, imho it looks downright gaudy, I love pcp&c's "labeless" matte black look with stealth black sleeved cables. It speaks of class, not rice. And I can't hear my turbocool either so....

Oh, and can I have a link to that "guy" you mention so I can have a good laugh?

i dont mean to imply anything, but do you have any idea the SIZE of the advertising contract that antec signed with maximum pc? we're talking in the $100,000+ range.

 

[gee]

you must be insane if you think that dell needs to buy through a tiny company like pc power and cooling when literally tons and tons of chinese manufacturers are tripping all over each other fighting for dell's business

PCP&C is a design house with limited manufacturing capabilities. They're not a full-fledged power supply factory or anything.

Dell is a huge company with incredible manufacturing capabilites, but fundamentally they're an assembler/manufacturer instead of a design company. When you're shipping an insane number of PCs like Dell does and you have a brand reputation to keep and support costs to keep small, then you need the stuff you ship to be dead reliable. So they purchase or license an extremely good power supply design from PCP&C which is extremely unlikely to blow up or need a recall, and then contract the manufacture of said supply design to chinese manufacturers.

Dell doesn't even design their own motherboards - these are contracted out to abit/asus/etc.

What's insane about what I just said?

 

[Shumph]

The PowerStream didn't do as well on the 60V input test but that shouldn't really matter because the voltage in your house is never going to drop that low.

Don't be so sure. Have you ever been to south florida in the middle of the summer. I usually get 2 brownouts a day. Its hell on my electronics. Somtimes its not a brownout but my power just blinks.

 

[Keetha]

I figured I should post and say that my OCZ 520w PowerStream is working fine so far since I'm kinda the on who started all of this :/...
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=849048&page=2&pp=20
My video card is now flashed to 1.4v and running at 420/1150 for now btw.
I really like my PowerStream for now, but you all have me kind of scared.

 

[TDK]

Dell dont use pcpowercoling for their psu's. If they were to buy from pcpowercooling they would get the psu's for maybe $40 but thats way to expensive, they are made by bestec and they get them for around $15 http://www.bestec.com.tw/customer.html same company used for hp toshiba and sony computers.

 

[burningrave101]

PCP&C has just released a PCI-E version. The 510 Turbo-Cool Deluxe has been out for over a year if I'm not mistaken, so when it was released ATX2.0 wasn't even out yet.

Yes, like i mentioned they have the Turbo-Cool 510 Express and it is $230.

Why don't you show the figures from both units? Is it because the PCP&C got a better score or did you just forget?

Personally I'd rather my PSU have the right voltage without me having to manually adjust it.

The reason i didn't show the PC Power and Cooling's result is because i wasn't talking about it. I was talking about the reasons why they deducted points on the PowerStream and only gave it a 7 out of 10.

Personally i'd rather my PSU have easily adjustable voltages that are near where they should be and EASILY adjustable on the rear of the power supply instead of having to take my power supply apart and void my warranty . The external pots are a nice feature for overclockers who want to try and send more juice to certain components.

Yes, the Turbo-Cool is loud, most people don't care - stability is more important than noise.

Guess what? I doubt that anyone in this thread would be able to tell a difference in stability between a 520w PowerStream and a 510w Turbo-Cool but i sure the hell bet they can tell the different in noise levels lol.

I don't see what you were trying to prove with this post. Seems like a lot of useless rambling to me

Its always useless rambling when it doesn't sway to the side you support though isn't it?

Don't be so sure. Have you ever been to south florida in the middle of the summer. I usually get 2 brownouts a day. Its hell on my electronics. Somtimes its not a brownout but my power just blinks.

Like was mentioned in the article, a brownout usually drops the voltage to around 90V - 100V and all the power supplies in the review held up to that.

You must have some serious issues if the voltage is dropping down to 60V on a regular basis lol.

BTW, the PowerStream didn't shut off when the input voltage was dropped to 60V. The voltage sagged well below spec though and was around 9.88V on the 12V rail.

I'm wondering why the power supply didn't shut off though because the under voltage protection is suppost to kick in around there.

The under voltage sense circuitry and referecne are packaged distinct from the main regulator circuitry and reference and positioned within a separate module. If a single point fault occurs on any output, the remaining outputs will not be subjected to any sustained undervoltage condition, rather , all other outputs will be protected by the unit going into "latch mode" protection. The conditions at which the latch occurs are:

+5V output is between 4.10V to 4.47V
+12V output is between 9.52V to 10.15V
+3.3V output is between 2.55V to 2.83V

PCP&C is a design house with limited manufacturing capabilities. They're not a full-fledged power supply factory or anything.

Dell is a huge company with incredible manufacturing capabilites, but fundamentally they're an assembler/manufacturer instead of a design company. When you're shipping an insane number of PCs like Dell does and you have a brand reputation to keep and support costs to keep small, then you need the stuff you ship to be dead reliable. So they purchase or license an extremely good power supply design from PCP&C which is extremely unlikely to blow up or need a recall, and then contract the manufacture of said supply design to chinese manufacturers.

Dell doesn't even design their own motherboards - these are contracted out to abit/asus/etc.

What's insane about what I just said?

I'm sure they are descent power supplies but that doesn't mean they are PC Power and Cooling brand power supplies. I've worked on quite a few Dell machines and especially HP machines and the name i see most is Bestec. I have two HP machines that are a couple years old and both have Bestec PSU's in them.

I'd wager to say that the stability of an HP is as good as most Dells i've seen.

These types of machines are not being overclocked and pushed to their limits so they dont require a beast of a power supply to run them. Dell and HP computers only ship with the bare necessities and that is how they keep cost down.

 

[Ice Czar]

I figured I should post and say that my OCZ 520w PowerStream is working fine so far since I'm kinda the on who started all of this :/...
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=849048&page=2&pp=20
My video card is now flashed to 1.4v and running at 420/1150 for now btw.
I really like my PowerStream for now, but you all have me kind of scared.

dont be, this is a long running fued over exactly how good two really good supplies are

on the Dell & PCP&C front
consider this, engineering is sometimes described as the practice of designing a component to do this much reliabily and cost the least, anyone can over design a component and blow a budget, assuming that all PCP&C designs are these fabulous magical perfect models isnt real, they offer a line from high quality to ho hum like most do, and Im sure if they where consulted for the Dell line, they designed a supply that met the criteria and the cost, reliable and within the tolerances Dell requested, but without much if any extra capacity, and the actual manufacturer could well be bestec, like other design houses, they contract out manufacturing, if they are involved with Dell, it was likely as a freelance consultant
but the design and component selection could well have been theirs

or not

what is telling is the lucrative Dell replacement buisness they might have worked out in such a deal, in which case its likey they get the same supplies and rebrand them
anyone checked if there are differences between a Bestec and PCP&C Dell model?

 

[burningrave101]

I shot an e-mail over to OCZ tech support this morning and asked them about the MAXPC article and why the PowerStream didn't shut off at the 60V spike.

I got a response back a few minutes ago and he said he was going to forward my message on to one of their engineers to look into the matter further as to why it didn't shut off.

I also think i may of found out why there were several PowerStream's that died prematurely. Supposedly it happened during shipping and the PCB bottomed out and touched the metal casing of the PSU. This seems like a pretty likely explanation for it.

I would venture to say the issue has been addressed and newer PowerStreams shouldn't have any problems.

Just to clarify the warranty on PowerStreams

3 years swap out followed by a 2 year return to based for repair.All you have to pay is the shipping back to OCZ for the faulty unit...nothing more.

Our web site was actually incorrect and we have ammended it to reflect what I have stated here. The warranty has never altered though.

http://www.bleedinedge.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6234

 

[collegeboy69us]

hate to interrupt the e-penis contest on PSU's here, but wasnt the original issue of this thread to deal with the MSI and OCZ issues (if there are any)

you people have taken a perfectly good thread and pissed all over it.

no offense


jeff

 

[EnderW]

hate to interrupt the e-penis contest on PSU's here, but wasnt the original issue of this thread to deal with the MSI and OCZ issues (if there are any)

you people have taken a perfectly good thread and pissed all over it.

no offense


jeff

lol, you're right

 

[WaXmAn]

I have a OCZ powerstream 600w and its running great. No problems yet.

 

[oddlycalm]

hate to interrupt the e-penis contest on PSU's here, but wasnt the original issue of this thread to deal with the MSI and OCZ issues (if there are any)

you people have taken a perfectly good thread and pissed all over it.

You're right. I just removed my mostly off topic comments here and started a new thread.

oc

 

[CiKoTiC]

I purchased the OCZ Powerstream 520 about a month ago. Worked great until I tried to power up my PC today.

Dead as a door knob.

Hopefully I can RMA. If OCZ sends a replacement, it's going on ebay.

 

[computerpro3]

sorry about your psu, but from what I've seen at least they should replace it.

 

[burningrave101]

I purchased the OCZ Powerstream 520 about a month ago. Worked great until I tried to power up my PC today.

Dead as a door knob.

Hopefully I can RMA. If OCZ sends a replacement, it's going on ebay.

Just contact OCZ and they will send you a new one without any hassle. It has a 5 year warranty and the first 3 years you automatically get a new replacement.

 

[BillR]

The fact that OCZ has revamped their customer service policies seems pretty inarguable at this point; everyone seems to agree on that.

I guess what bothers me so much is how many threads I keep reading about how great they were about replacing their RAM, their PSU’s etc.

Maybe it’s just me, but they seem to be replacing a lot of product for a lot of people.

Where is the quality control in the first place?

 

[Ice Czar]

LOL

frying RAM is far too easy, I wouldnt ascribe it to quality control
few follow the strict ESD precautions that are recommended
and few run UPSs either, I dont see a statistical anomoly in the number of incidents Ive seen
the "cluster" that started this thread however did bear some investigation but it doesnt appear to be anying other than an anomoly

 

[BillR]

LOL

frying RAM is far too easy, I wouldnt ascribe it to quality control
few follow the strict ESD precautions that are recommended
and few run UPSs either, I dont see a statistical anomoly in the number of incidents Ive seen
the "cluster" that started this thread however did bear some investigation but it doesnt appear to be anying other than an anomoly

Well, this thread went way beyond any useable statistical probability long ago, I realize that. My observations were based on looking in on many forums and it “seemed” there was a pattern, perhaps not.

Your RAM comment is well taken especially with all the people with those gigawatt voltage converters to allow higher over clocks.

 

[burningrave101]

OCZ's warranty on RAM covers voltages higher then what other manufacturers allow. I believe you can use up to 3.0V without voiding the warranty.

 

[computerpro3]

eh i'm loose with voltage; had my 2.4c@ 1.825 on water for benching, bh-5 @ 3.85v day to day for months, radeon 9700 pro to 1.85-1.9v on water, 3.0c to 1.8v, and this little 2.2b to 1.85v on vapor

 

[EnderW]

eh i'm loose with voltage; had my 2.4c@ 1.825 on water for benching, bh-5 @ 3.85v day to day for months, radeon 9700 pro to 1.85-1.9v on water, 3.0c to 1.8v, and this little 2.2b to 1.85v on vapor

3.85v? what board did you have?

 

[computerpro3]

a vdimm and droop modded asus p4c800-e deluxe powered by my pcp&c 510 deluxe with the 3.3v rail hovering around 4.0v.

I sold that ram for $400. It did 267mhz 2-2-2-5 all day which is amazing for a 1gb kit.

 

[burningrave101]

It did 267mhz 2-2-2-5 all day which is amazing for a 1gb kit.

I'm not surprised considering it was BH-5 and you were shooting 3.85v through it lol. BH-5 can handle all the voltage you can give it and with enough you can reach some pretty high clocks at 2-2-2-5. Its too bad that Samsung TCCD isn't the same way. It starts crapping out if you give it very much voltage.

 

[computerpro3]

I agree, I have tccd in my rig now, and while its nice, I miss the screenies of 2-2-2-5 @ over 500mhz

but back on topic...